Post Direct, Steam Is Shittier Than Ever (The Jimquisition) - General

[video]https://youtu.be/j0GPmRCTOO8[/video]

I am sorry but who is the person who searches through every game on steam or who looks at new releases and [I]ACTUALLY[/I] bought a game even back when Steam was more closed? Sometimes I do browse it out of curiosity but whenever I buy a game I would have heard about it somewhere else or hell even the recommendation thing that steam has provided me with a few games that I might buy. The asset flips are shit and really do need to be curated and games that are just 100% shit or basic do need to be removed. However I don't think that is the issue some of these developers are facing. I do agree on that there needs to be more curation but only to remove these kind of games. If you don't advertise your game properly, and there is an element of luck(getting some coverage) in this I will admit, you won't get far regardless. FDG Entertainment for example just looks like the average mobile game developer from their libary. The only game that was SOMEWHAT familar was Oceanhorn and whilst the blossom game of them looks fun, I literally had no idea it was on Steam BUT I also didnt have a clue that it was on Switch either until I looked them up.

[QUOTE=Valiantttt;52926665]I am sorry but who is the person who searches through every game on steam or who looks at new releases and [I]ACTUALLY[/I] bought a game even back when Steam was more closed? Sometimes I do browse it out of curiosity but whenever I buy a game I would have heard about it somewhere else or hell even the recommendation thing that steam has provided me with a few games that I might buy. The asset flips are shit and really do need to be curated and games that are just 100% shit or basic do need to be removed. However I don't think that is the issue some of these developers are facing. I do agree on that there needs to be more curation but only to remove these kind of games. If you don't advertise your game properly, and there is an element of luck(getting some coverage) in this I will admit, you won't get far regardless. FDG Entertainment for example just looks like the average mobile game developer from their libary. The only game that was SOMEWHAT familar was Oceanhorn and whilst the blossom game of them looks fun, I literally had no idea it was on Steam BUT I also didnt have a clue that it was on Switch either until I looked them up.[/QUOTE] i've occasionally browsed through the categories when i've been particularly bored and looking for something new, and i've been bombarded by how awful the catalog is now i'm not going to hit it with the vitriol jim is, but he made a real good point towards the end of the video: there was a point where getting a game on steam as a smaller developer was "making it". now it's meaningless

Steam is a pile of unorganized dogshit. Look at upcoming releases and you will find a bunch of low effort crap or some anime shit. Say what you want about Origin and Uplay and other platforms but at least it's a gaming platform. Steam have a bunch of features which are all half assed This isn't even just the store. The entire client is outdated and slow to navigate. Social features and the market are all awful. Steam broadcast hasn't been updated in 50 years. Steam is still the best platform but holy shit everything about it as a client is awful

I don't ever go through the Steam store to find games to buy anymore. It's worthless as a discovery tool since 90% of the games on it are arguably not worth the time or money. If there are games that are worth the time or money, they're lost in the noise.

I remember as a kid sifting through the steam store to see things like the half life series, dark messiah, garry's mod etc and being able to actually find things of interest to me Now it's literally a cess-pit and unless I already know of the game to search for, I'm never going to find anything new

You can't really rely on people either to be honest if you count the amount of massively backed kickstarters that didn't even get a playable release such as bear simulator, which probably still has the green light page up. It made over $100k and the developer even shows himself downloading the main fucking bear model for free from turbosquid. [editline]28th November 2017[/editline] Honestly I'd rather there be people hired to control what gets allowed even if it meant steam taking and extra 5% but then again I can see massive corruption and favoritism going on with that system.

I can't believe he[sp]actually accepted that challenge[/sp]

[QUOTE=redBadger;52926771]Steam is a pile of unorganized dogshit. Look at upcoming releases and you will find a bunch of low effort crap or some [B]anime shit.[/B] Say what you want about Origin and Uplay and other platforms but at least it's a gaming platform. Steam have a bunch of features which are all half assed This isn't even just the store. The entire client is outdated and slow to navigate. Social features and the market are all awful. Steam broadcast hasn't been updated in 50 years. Steam is still the best platform but holy shit everything about it as a client is awful[/QUOTE] I do agree with most of your points, but "Anime shit" is more or less your subjective opinion. There is some good games with anime graphics, and there are awful Sakura games as well. There are good games that uses pre-existing assets without us ever noticing, while there are some who just uses the cheapest asset as a means to an end. The issue is that the shit that's cheap and fast to make is overflowing, while things that takes a lot of effort and time to make has to go through the shit flow and hope that someone notices it before it sinks down into the cesspool. Thankfully, some very good indie games are noticed by certain reviewers that allows them to dodge that fate (Jim Sterling, TotalBiscuit, and others have often series that gives showcases of these), but it's hard to tell how many good indie game we miss because of how much shit gets released everyday under Steam Direct.

[QUOTE=Feuver;52928462]I do agree with most of your points, but "Anime shit" is more or less your subjective opinion. There is some good games with anime graphics, and there are awful Sakura games as well. There are good games that uses pre-existing assets without us ever noticing, while there are some who just uses the cheapest asset as a means to an end. The issue is that the shit that's cheap and fast to make is overflowing, while things that takes a lot of effort and time to make has to go through the shit flow and hope that someone notices it before it sinks down into the cesspool. Thankfully, some very good indie games are noticed by certain reviewers that allows them to dodge that fate (Jim Sterling, TotalBiscuit, and others have often series that gives showcases of these), but it's hard to tell how many good indie game we miss because of how much shit gets released everyday under Steam Direct.[/QUOTE] A lot of it is anime shit though. I don't even like anime, but I can tell the difference between something like Valkyria Chronicles compared to what you see on the store 95% of the time. If you where to sum up Steam's store it'd be. "8/16bit retro games and bad anime games".

[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;52928469]A lot of it is anime shit though. I don't even like anime, but I can tell the difference between something like Valkyria Chronicles compared to what you see on the store 95% of the time. If you where to sum up Steam's store it'd be. "8/16bit retro games and bad anime games".[/QUOTE] I will admit that a lot of things in the upcoming release section is really poor quality Visual Novel ports or rpg maker game with some cheap anime girl images.

Browsing Steam is impossible since it's clogged with so much uber indie trash. I don't mind indie if it's quality but some of the shit is so amateurish it really doesn't belong on Steam or any other store. [sp]also I want an option to filter anything that resembles anime[/sp]

[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;52928609]Browsing Steam is impossible since it's clogged with so much uber indie trash. I don't mind indie if it's quality but some of the shit is so amateurish it really doesn't belong on Steam or any other store. [sp]also I want an option to filter anything that resembles anime[/sp][/QUOTE] [IMG]http://puu.sh/yv0Rr/74200b093f.jpg[/IMG] [editline]28th November 2017[/editline] I mean, before all this shite kicked off big time, filtering the Indie tag was dumb because there's alot of decent indie games, now however, shit EVERYWHRE.

[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;52928609]Browsing Steam is impossible since it's clogged with so much uber indie trash. I don't mind indie if it's quality but some of the shit is so amateurish it really doesn't belong on Steam or any other store. [sp]also I want an option to filter anything that resembles anime[/sp][/QUOTE] some of the shit goes beyond even amateur, and is stuff that wasn't even started or designed at all in a way that constitutes as a an actual thing anyone made. [editline]28th November 2017[/editline] Hell, some games don't even have an .EXE like come the fuck on STEAM GET IT ToGETHer MAAN

[QUOTE=J!NX;52928646]some of the shit goes beyond even amateur, and is stuff that wasn't even started or designed at all in a way that constitutes as a an actual thing anyone mad. [editline]28th November 2017[/editline] Hell, some games don't even have an .EXE like come the fuck on STEAM GET IT ToGETHer MAAN[/QUOTE] [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/c2gJ89D.png[/IMG] steam is going too far

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;52928887][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/c2gJ89D.png[/IMG] steam is going too far[/QUOTE] Let's not turn this discussion into a pointless anime argument, that one game in your post actually looks good regardless of your tastes regarding anime.

I do have a genuine question: Is this actually a problem from a regular consumer standpoint? Going through the Steam Store under my account has almost never (if ever) exposed me to any of these asset-flips and achievement-farms. I'd like to think that their algorithm is at least working as intended to an extend, although I do believe in many hidden gems stay buried deep with no way to get their name out. Valve could and should definitely improve the service by showing atttempts to curb effortless cash-grabs but the current state doesn't seem to be as abysmal as described.

[QUOTE=GHOST!!!!;52928638][IMG]http://puu.sh/yv0Rr/74200b093f.jpg[/IMG] [editline]28th November 2017[/editline] I mean, before all this shite kicked off big time, filtering the Indie tag was dumb because there's alot of decent indie games, now however, shit EVERYWHRE.[/QUOTE] I've filtered out Early Access and anime, and it seems to filter out most of the shit. Without those filters, it's zombie-survival minecrafting visual novel -galore.

the only things I've filtered out is survival and survival horror and I'm not getting any garbage like, consistently every time I check steam there's only very positive or overwhelmingly positive games being shown to me same for the discovery queue am I the luckiest person alive

Steam is full of crap but I find the complaints about the storefront exaggerated. This is what mine looks like: [IMG]https://snag.gy/Wj7aUO.jpg[/IMG] That's 50% AAA mixed with some other titles that loosely match my viewing history and interests based on a few rounds of greenlighting. I've only filtered out sports games and RTS:es and I'm not getting much garbage. My interest in sci-fi, horror and survival means that occasionally some mediocre titles show up (minecraft and Rust clones mostly), and if I dive directly into the listings then obviously all the crap will show up. Other than that however, it's largely fine.

Yeah it really sounds like people are looking at new releases for some reason instead of the front page or recommendation system

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52929073]Yeah it really sounds like people are looking at new releases for some reason instead of the front page or recommendation system[/QUOTE] I mean, the recommendation system was literally made for the sole purpose of circumventing this whole issue.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52929073]Yeah it really sounds like people are looking at new releases for some reason instead of the front page or recommendation system[/QUOTE] I go through the 'tops sales' list of certain tags, however I find that some gems still get lost in the massive lists of shit that you can't find in that. When people complain they aren't referring to the front page really.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;52929056]Steam is full of crap but I find the complaints about the storefront exaggerated. This is what mine looks like: [IMG]https://snag.gy/Wj7aUO.jpg[/IMG] That's 50% AAA mixed with some other titles that loosely match my viewing history and interests based on a few rounds of greenlighting. I've only filtered out sports games and RTS:es and I'm not getting much garbage. My interest in sci-fi, horror and survival means that occasionally some mediocre titles show up (minecraft and Rust clones mostly), and if I dive directly into the listings then obviously all the crap will show up. Other than that however, it's largely fine.[/QUOTE] I don't think the front page is based off your preferences because I'm seeing those exact same titles, albeit in a slightly different layout.

[QUOTE=Loadingue;52929237]I mean, the recommendation system was literally made for the sole purpose of circumventing this whole issue.[/QUOTE] Sometimes I want to see what's upcoming or just releases to see if I missed something or if something is coming out soon that I may be interested in, but they are both so clogged it's ridiculous

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52929267]I don't think the front page is based off your preferences because I'm seeing those exact same titles, albeit in a slightly different layout.[/QUOTE] Uhmm yeah... wasn't there a sale going on?

So I decided to check the main scrolling recommendation box at the top to see what it listed and took screenshots: [t]https://i.imgur.com/DtMPdh2.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/cFT7kiU.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/lqly7NC.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/IVl86mt.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/05k8bOe.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/9ZyGFc3.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/BUhwwXl.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/bQRrt84.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/ezt59rU.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/rppHHFd.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/2ficmvT.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/mc7ZRLF.png[/t] By and large they either don't interest me enough to get, or else I have them in some other form like Saints Row 2 or Sleeping Dogs. But nothing terrible here. The worst might be either Rake, which is well reviewed and at least looks decent, or Homebrew, which is a little weak but not bad by any means. But I went somewhere I know I see shitty games and checked that, the recommendation queue: [t]https://i.imgur.com/xIT3Iov.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/YD2QYzE.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/MZCfZKz.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/Gh09q0c.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/KGYsoAr.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/r0iDsEd.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/h93XCs0.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/WtHZ6za.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/0ZM2IUl.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/nOWp2YE.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/IM4ZSyM.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/aX8iEmF.png[/t] So yeah, some less than stellar, or outright shitty stuff in there, mixed in with some stuff that might be appealing to others but just aren't to me, but aren't bad at all. But then lets consider just how many games I've seen in this list: [t]https://i.imgur.com/Ia1wqYI.png[/t] Yeah, I've probably seen a large chunk of the good games on Steam by now. Not including the ones I already own as well. But I decided to go a step further than that and checked the site so it was all entirely unaffected by my own habits: [t]https://i.imgur.com/yp0Y22F.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/8HgFN64.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/4zeGA1x.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/0y8XTXj.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/3c6zuQo.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/oHqKDws.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/ntoGzoP.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/jG7srZW.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/PFqdbju.png[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/sVCNvlD.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/lULvLWW.png[/t][t]https://i.imgur.com/F9bU1wz.png[/t] So we get entirely top sellers. With a double appearance from Rising Storm 2. So lastly, we look at the New Releases lists, starting with popular new releases and then all new releases period: [t]http://u.cubeupload.com/Coldmute/0rPviB.png[/t][t]http://u.cubeupload.com/Coldmute/SJCqHW.png[/t] Finally we really find the bad stuff, and that is by going for explicitly all new releases.

I think we're getting too hung up on front pages to be honest. The truth is that there's a lot of good games, and steam does a fairly good job of not recommending junk to you (if it recommends games you'd actually be interested in buying is another question) but the issue isn't the personalizing algorythms, that's not what this is about.

So just another random notion. If per say, these "games" are somehow profitable even after the Direct fees, it must mean they have an audience? Are there any who genuinely fell for it thinking it is a decent game? If people outside of the niche never see these "junk", should this still pose a problem? Or is it about the "Steam standard", or preventing people from gaming their steam profile? The only legitimate negative I can see right now is other "honest effort" games getting buried. In which yeah I would say the devs shouldn't depend too much on the algorithm getting them the exposure, and Valve should really do something to at least try to help them.