Things I hate about modern gaming: stories - Maddox - General

I think most game stories are of b-movie level of quality, there are only a few that I can count on one hand that felt unique and at the same level as a good movie.

[QUOTE=KlaseR;48670563]I think most game stories are of b-movie level of quality, there are only a few that I can count on one hand that felt unique and at the same level as a good movie.[/QUOTE] Amnesia, Portal, Dead Space, Bioshock, and Max Payne 2 are examples that are good enough for me.

[QUOTE=KlaseR;48670563]I think most game stories are of b-movie level of quality, there are only a few that I can count on one hand that felt unique and at the same level as a good movie.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't exactly put movies as a pinnacle of story telling... There are some classics of course, but there's infinitely more shitty movies out there. Same with all media, really.

[QUOTE=Chopstick;48666295]Kind of understand what he's getting at, still comes off as completely wrong though. The advantage of games without a story is they're incredibly easy to get into. You don't need a backstory to play a game of snap, tetris, grids or guess who but for games that require a story or context to be played they're a necessity of modern gaming - especially seeing as most modern games are constantly trying to improve on older games and add yet more features there's going to be plenty of things people dislike about them. I have a huge distaste for the ranking/unlocking systems in place for games like CS:GO, Planetside 2 and APB:Reloaded that it's kind of pushed me off playing most modern shooters, didn't see any problem with just spawning with whatever you liked and not having to sink time into unlocking something to use it. I dunno he still kind of makes a good point that you don't need to care about the story in order to get through the game though, most speedrunners of games will completely ignore the story as it's necessary in majority cases to get a faster completion time. tl;dr: you don't need a story for games, imo unlock systems suck in modern shooters and speedrunners ignore the story for faster completion times in most cases.[/QUOTE] Uh, you do realize that CS:GO doesn't have an unlocking system right? You can use every single weapon from the start. I think you mean Call of Duty...

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48670376]You said "Maddox was always great". And because we think the joke is shitty then it must have gone completely over our heads. No, it's because he's wrong [i]and[/i] his ability to be humorous on the matter is shitty. The shit that makes Maddox funny is when he talks about how great beef jerky is, or how stupid crocs are. Not when he tries to make dumb pop-culture commentary that he isn't even educated on.[/QUOTE] Just a pro tip Great =\= never wrong

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48671476]Just a pro tip Great =\= never wrong[/QUOTE] literal sentence =/= interpreted implication of statement

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48671515]literal sentence =/= interpreted implication of statement[/QUOTE] I even have a follow up post clarifying what I think about him, but yes, I'm wrong for having said great and you're right for saying "never wrong" Nope

This is the semantics I'm talking about, btw

The thing I'm taking away from this is that since Maddox usually makes fun of archaic shit and standard shit, this time he's kind of on the opposite side of the argument this time. Usually he tries to be offensive with an actual satirical message, trying to nudge society to move forward. With this he's kind of obviously trolling and trying to get people to be riled up about his opinion. He's basically talking shit for the sake of talking shit, and if anything he's pushing back progress by saying games can't convey story in a meaningful way.

Well, in the stream he was talking about how he didn't mean that all video games should drop the story, but he was saying that the driving force for a video game should be the gameplay and [I]always[/I] the gameplay. Even then I would disagree with him, because then there's FMV video games, point-and-click adventures, etc.

[QUOTE=Tovip;48662960]The problem I had with TLOU was that the biggest draw for me was the relationship between Joel and Ellie but that dynamic wasn't really ever shown through gameplay only in cutscenes/walkNtalk sections and the swimming puzzle that got really annoying after you realized that they were going to keep reusing it. Would have been cool to see their relationship expressed through gameplay in a way similar to ICO or something[/QUOTE] I don't know if Ico is a great example for that. All Yorda does really is get taken away by the shadows and open doors when you walk up to them. You still get attached to her but that's because you're spending the whole game with her and she's pivotal to the plot. Ellie works the same way in that regard, but at least she helps you during combat in TLOU.

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;48668447]maddox having a pompous attitude (the character he's always portrayed) about something i agree with = "haha yea maddox is fucking hilarious" maddox having a pompous attitude (the character he's always portrayed) about something i disagree with = "WTF MADDOX?? why are you being such an asshole this isn't funny!"[/QUOTE] I agree with your statement but not really your purpose. What you wrote makes perfect sense, why would anyone criticise a subject they agree with? And his tone has been criticised even when people agreed on his material. I find him an ass and I hardly agree on anything with him. His shtick is to be a contrarian. That doesn't mean I expect everyone to blindly agree or disagree with everything he says. People obviously will support things he says that they believe in and will criticise things he says that don't sit well with them.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48670832]Uh, you do realize that CS:GO doesn't have an unlocking system right? You can use every single weapon from the start. I think you mean Call of Duty...[/QUOTE] And even if he's talking about the money system and needing to buy weapons, there's also Deathmatch where you can just pick whatever weapon you want to spawn with and go kill people.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48670223]This guy's whole style is just tired and stopped being relevant a while ago.[/QUOTE] Said who?

I couldn't give two shits about the story if the game-play is simply not good, and fun to play. So in that sense, I agree with him. And about cut-scenes. The worst thing about cut-scenes is when they try to hide loading screens behind them, and try to make it come off as "seamless" transition between gameplay and story, where if the game-play fails in any aspects or feels lacking, then the whole fucking game falls apart. Say, Max Payne 3, also I think the same goes to The Last of Us, Tomb Raiders and Uncharteds as well..

[QUOTE=wauterboi;48668323]I dunno. I guess I'd rather watch "an idiot manchild"'s videos than some of the high-brow videos you've got, man.[/QUOTE] Ahahahahaha, what the fuck

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;48670532]you can like/dislike a person depending on what they do or agree/disagree with their opinion depending on the subject but don't use the excuse of it being his "character" to justify being a jackass every time he shows up[/QUOTE] Pretending to be an jackass is still being an jackass

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48669317]I tangentially agree with Maddox, but not completely. Stories are like graphics. A good game is a good game, but nice looking graphics enhance my enjoyment. Shit graphics can sometimes take away from my enjoyment. Same with story. A good game is a good game, but an interesting enough story and character babble and depth make me a bit more invested in the game. Deus Ex is a fun game, but the cheesy b-movie story and voice acting make it more interesting, more memorable. It has more charm and character because of its setting and story. But otherwise, yeah. He doesn't like stories in games. I get that. That's not a bad opinion.[/QUOTE] i agree with his statement that role playing games need a story. but alot of games aren't role playing games and don't need a strong story to be fun. there are a lot of games with superfluous stories added into them, which are basically just time wasters.

I'd rather not play a game with no story, there's nothing to keep me interested and keep playing at that point.

[QUOTE=bdd458;48674324]I'd rather not play a game with no story, there's nothing to keep me interested and keep playing at that point.[/QUOTE] Eh plenty of games have good enough gameplay that a story is entirely unneeded.

it feels like maddox is running out of things to write about [editline]13th September 2015[/editline] that upsets me because a lot of his other videos are some of my favorites

[QUOTE=Saza;48674887]it feels like maddox is running out of things to write about [editline]13th September 2015[/editline] that upsets me because a lot of his other videos are some of my favorites[/QUOTE] I don't think he's run out of stuff to talk about - he just brought in a great problem for the podcast this week with poly-evangelists. (polyemerists who won't stop talking about polyemery)

[QUOTE=Murky42;48674709]Eh plenty of games have good enough gameplay that a story is entirely unneeded.[/QUOTE] the best way to handle this is to have the story be solely told through gameplay and entirely unobtrusive background details. no fuss or time wasted but it's there and you get extra replay value out of piecing it together, if you want to

[QUOTE=Cone;48675178]the best way to handle this is to have the story be solely told through gameplay and entirely unobtrusive background details. no fuss or time wasted but it's there and you get extra replay value out of piecing it together, if you want to[/QUOTE] Yeah its a nice detail when done well. That being said I don't think that's always required. For example I played this lovely little game lately: [url]http://dr-d-king.itch.io/optisocubes[/url] No story whatsoever absolute minimalistic graphics but it works great and lends the work a very focused no distractions style. If they added any kind of story whatsoever in a game like that I would even by mildly annoyed. Its a good game but its impossible to put a cohesive worthwhile narrative around it. So why bother? It really depends on the game is what it ultimately comes down too. IMO unless they actually have a good story too tell they shouldn't bother. Spending time on the story is time that could be spent doing other stuff. If its not a strong suit then simply don't worry about it. If its a small game it takes time away from the primary dev which is pretty significant. If its a bigger game then its time and money spent on something that might end up being forgettable or even worse obnoxious.

We can go to the other extreme too - anyone ever play those pretentious online flash games that try to be super artsy despite being absolutely shitty? [video=youtube;JYAgsGHzj10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAgsGHzj10&index=34&list=PL26B36130624FCAF5[/video]

[QUOTE=wauterboi;48675881]We can go to the other extreme too - anyone ever play those pretentious online flash games that try to be super artsy despite being absolutely shitty? [video=youtube;JYAgsGHzj10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAgsGHzj10&index=34&list=PL26B36130624FCAF5[/video][/QUOTE] At least this game had more gameplay then gone home and you didn't have to pay for it. I mean I actually like my artsy games but gone home managed to lag on my PC and its "what a twist" sounds like the lamest shit ever. Glad I decided to skip that title.

[QUOTE=Murky42;48674709]Eh plenty of games have good enough gameplay that a story is entirely unneeded.[/QUOTE] To me, the gameplay is nothing without proper context, and a high score is not proper context in my eyes. I get too bored. It's why I generally don't do much in open world games besides the story, I don't care to fuck around in them. Like the story doesn't have to be in your face cutscenes every 3 seconds (still love you though MGS4 <3), but having a story, and giving me context to everything is key, at least for me.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;48675881]We can go to the other extreme too - anyone ever play those pretentious online flash games that try to be super artsy despite being absolutely shitty? [video=youtube;JYAgsGHzj10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAgsGHzj10&index=34&list=PL26B36130624FCAF5[/video][/QUOTE] I didn't mind this game, it's artsy pretentious shit was a bit OTT and the game was short/simple as fuck but it didn't really to me matter since A. it's a platform flash game, who cares what you do with it B. it's free C. it was actually kind of atmospheric and creepy near the end