[QUOTE=Tippmann357;38463328]You sound like a person that would react the same way when he heard light acts as both as a wave and a particle, but only when you observe it a certain way. Or when he heard that one electron passes through both slits at the same time in Young's double slit experiment.
"This is stupid because I don't understand it and it sounds too crazy so it must not be true."
Sorry, but things don't work that way.[/QUOTE]
You sound like one of those poseurs who waste their time jacking off their ego's on BBs trying to sound smart by telling other people that they are stupid with oh-so-fancy words you learned on Wikipedia. I understand the theory, just as much as i understand that Christians believe that god is three things at a same time, Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit, or that Nazists believed that whites were the only true people.
I know and understand the properties of light.
[sp]Ill bet my ass that Tippmann's next move will be sperging out about my grammar or spelling.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Vasili;38463379]The idea of sound is just a human concept.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's why it is an idea. A construct of the mind; remember a song, listen to it in your head - is that a sound?
We usually consider sound as [I]that thing [/I]usually associated with the sensation we feel when our ears perceive patterns of pressure waves.
The tree falling question is ambiguous.
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is present, does it disperse some of its energy into waves of pressure in the air surrounding it? Yes.
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is present, does anybody hear the sound? No.
If nobody hears a sound because the pressure waves associated with it dissipated enough to be indistinguishable from those of the background before it reaches them (or never does reach them), were there any pressure waves in the first place?
Blah blah blah
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38463639]You sound like one of those poseurs who waste their time jacking off their ego's on BBs trying to sound smart by telling other people that they are stupid with oh-so-fancy words you learned on Wikipedia. I understand the theory, just as much as i understand that Christians believe that god is three things at a same time, Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit, or that Nazists believed that whites were the only true people.
I know and understand the properties of light.
[sp]Ill bet my ass that Tippmann's next move will be sperging out about my grammar or spelling.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Your arrogance is showing. I don't have an ego, but I don't go into threads saying certain ideas are stupid just because I don't have an understanding of them. You understand the properties of light because they're now accepted worldwide. It's only a matter of time until abstract ideas become familiar with the general population. Also, those analogies. What.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38463639]You sound like one of those poseurs who waste their time jacking off their ego's on BBs trying to sound smart by telling other people that they are stupid with oh-so-fancy words you learned on Wikipedia. I understand the theory, just as much as i understand that Christians believe that god is three things at a same time, Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit, or that Nazists believed that whites were the only true people.
I know and understand the properties of light.
[sp]Ill bet my ass that Tippmann's next move will be sperging out about my grammar or spelling.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I agree that the entire theory is shit but wow you are such a terrible poster.
You're being way too inflammatory.
you you threw a coin without observation you'd still be presently there to observe it, simply being there is enough to observe the coin moving because you know the coin will move. That being said, "Reality is an illusion" is video game physics.
Now what the fuck does that have to do with those new age retards in scientist disguise's psychotic rambling? Exactly! You go offtopic as soon as you get butthurt over the fact that you cant defend your own bullshit or some other bullshit you happen to agree with.
Theese guys have played too many video games. they think that because even though a three dimensional object on a computer can be perceived as a three dimensional object, or a bunch of 2d images in succesion, or a long string it also is like that in reality. Its stupid. We have what we have and sometimes things dont act as expected, that is when you figure it out, not sit down on your ass, light a spliff and go shit on a camera while going "ITS AeLl a VIdiö GAEM xD XD xD" without any supporting evidence but theiir weed hallucination, upload the resulting footage and play some dumb choir music over to make it sound like some sort of life important revelation.
I will first believe in this bullshit when they have multiple experiments outside of their drug influenced "brains" and everyday life backing it up with evidence.
We aren't the center of the universe, things exist without our perception because things exist
Two conscious beings seperated by lighyears will still exist even though the other isn't aware of the otger
Alcoholocaust, this is what's called philosophy. Questioning reality is not new, it does not have anything to do with videogames. How do you know what you see is real, that's the most important question in this case. Your arguments are based on 'science' right? Well, science is explored using our perception, do you see the problem here?
That said, I don't agree with the video at all. Mostly because they claim to have found a proof but there's none of that. Proof is not even possible in a scenario like this.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38464028]Now what the fuck does that have to do with those new age retards in scientist disguise's psychotic rambling? Exactly! You go offtopic as soon as you get butthurt over the fact that you cant defend your own bullshit or some other bullshit you happen to agree with.
Theese guys have played too many video games. they think that because even though a three dimensional object on a computer can be perceived as a three dimensional object, or a bunch of 2d images in succesion, or a long string it also is like that in reality. Its stupid. We have what we have and sometimes things dont act as expected, that is when you figure it out, not sit down on your ass, light a spliff and go shit on a camera while going "ITS AeLl a VIdiö GAEM xD XD xD" without any supporting evidence but theiir weed hallucination, upload the resulting footage and play some dumb choir music over to make it sound like some sort of life important revelation.
I will first believe in this bullshit when they have multiple experiments outside of their drug influenced "brains" and everyday life backing it up with evidence.[/QUOTE]
seriously dude
please, just stop, it's a bullshit theory in my opinion, but [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI"]listen[/URL].
if people didn't create controversial and wild theories we would never have science to begin with. Science makes big growth through bold statements. The idea that the sun is the center of the solar system was controversial and bold at it's time... oh hey... guess the fuck what, now it's wildly and broadly accepted. Stupid people like you only make scientific discoveries slow down. If it wasn't for obnoxious people you, maybe we'd actually get somewhere.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38463639]You sound like one of those poseurs who waste their time jacking off their ego's on BBs trying to sound smart by telling other people that they are stupid with oh-so-fancy words you learned on Wikipedia. I understand the theory, just as much as i understand that Christians believe that god is three things at a same time, Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit, or that Nazists believed that whites were the only true people.
I know and understand the properties of light.
[sp]Ill bet my ass that Tippmann's next move will be sperging out about my grammar or spelling.[/sp][/QUOTE]
this is the worst post
[video=youtube;vQe0oiaBssg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQe0oiaBssg&feature=related[/video]
People who have a problem with the video in the OP should watch this whole documentary, but if you only watch a few minutes, skip to 3:00 for a good graphical representation of all this quantam nonsense
[QUOTE=Em See;38463657]Yes, that's why it is an idea. A construct of the mind; remember a song, listen to it in your head - is that a sound?
We usually consider sound as [I]that thing [/I]usually associated with the sensation we feel when our ears perceive patterns of pressure waves.
The tree falling question is ambiguous.
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is present, does it disperse some of its energy into waves of pressure in the air surrounding it? Yes.
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is present, does anybody hear the sound? No.
If nobody hears a sound because the pressure waves associated with it dissipated enough to be indistinguishable from those of the background before it reaches them (or never does reach them), were there any pressure waves in the first place?
Blah blah blah[/QUOTE]
Also theoretically if you are talking about how quantum physics relates to that question then the answer would be evaded because if no-one is around to hear or see the tree falling then the tree both falls and doesnt fall. In one case it makes sound in one it doesnt.
Frankly lots of people today need to learn to adapt from our standard boolean logic to quantum logic. This is the same reason quantum computers would be so powerful, because they can calculate 1 and 0 at the same time.
[QUOTE=J!NX;38464428]seriously dude
please, just stop, it's a bullshit theory in my opinion, but [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI"]listen[/URL].
if people didn't create controversial and wild theories we would never have science to begin with. Science makes big growth through bold statements. The idea that the sun is the center of the solar system was controversial and bold at it's time... oh hey... guess the fuck what, now it's wildly and broadly accepted. Stupid people like you only make scientific discoveries slow down. If it wasn't for obnoxious people you, maybe we'd actually get somewhere.[/QUOTE]
There was evidence for that earth revolved around the sun.
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38465674]There was evidence for that earth revolved around the sun.[/QUOTE]
The point was that it was controversial and even despite heaping evidence today, Carl Sagan said it was a bold statement, during the time. At the time there wasn't as much evidence. Same goes with the round earth theory etc.
Very neat, and extremely powerful message, however it can be very loosely interpreted, taken out of context, and applied to anything.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;38465555]Also theoretically if you are talking about how quantum physics relates to that question then the answer would be evaded because if no-one is around to hear or see the tree falling then the tree both falls and doesnt fall. In one case it makes sound in one it doesnt.
Frankly lots of people today need to learn to adapt from our standard boolean logic to quantum logic. This is the same reason quantum computers would be so powerful, because they can calculate 1 and 0 at the same time.[/QUOTE]
I doubt the "If a tree falls in a forest with no one around, does it make a sound?" thought experiment was created with quantum logic in mind, so no, I wasn't talking quantum mechanics.
Regardless - if we're talking quantum, we're talking about the infinitesimal by definition, tiny as tiny gets and as far as I know, you can't fit a tree, let alone a forest inside an atom.
So as long as we're still thinking with in terms larger than the smallest building blocks of matter, there's no reason for us to apply any of the concepts of quantum mechanics. Leave the quantum mechanics to the quantum physicists.
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;38464206]We aren't the center of the universe, things exist without our perception because things exist
Two conscious beings seperated by lighyears will still exist even though the other isn't aware of the otger[/QUOTE]
I agree. I'm not arguing with you, but I have some hypothetical questions for thought: If no conscious beings were ever born into the universe, would it be it real? Without conscious presence, how can reality be proven? Of course, at the moment we know that if all conscious life were to disappear right at this second, things would still exist. But if there never was conscious life, how could things exist? Maybe a better question is, if those things did exist, why would they matter?
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38465674]There was evidence for that earth revolved around the sun.[/QUOTE]
Evidence which was almost entirely based off of completely newly proposed theory and was taken with a grain of salt.
(ofc we can't really know as it was a heavily controversial topic at the time and bias would have been everywhere)
[QUOTE=acds;38462961]The answer is simply yes, since the soundwaves propagate no matter if there are human ears in reach.[/QUOTE]
The objective answer to the question is obvious. The problem is, the question isn't objective but philosphical. Do soundwaves exist in the space? Yes. To our knowledge they do. But can we consider them sound without an observer.
[QUOTE=gnome;38463481]Well, yeah, but so? Sound is just a reaction to vibration, so I mean no there's no [B]perceived[/B] sound in the tree instance but that doesn't matter because it's an internal perception that doesn't affect the outside world (until you react to it). If you however consider sound as the thing that causes it, ie vibration, then yes there's almost always sound whenever anything does anything, whether or not anyone's there to hear it (and things like air will move as a result). The only difference between someone hearing something and no one hearing it is whether or not there is a reaction to it. That's just like saying "if something happens and there's nobody to see it, was there anything to see?" Well, yeah. Light was still bouncing off of shit and it all still existed.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, there is no simple answer as both are correct from a point of view. It is a philosophical thought experiment that raises questions regarding observation and knowledge of reality. The argument essentially is when no one is there to hear it then is it not just a vibration rather than a 'sound'.
[QUOTE=Burgervich;38461494]We looking at stuff only makes it exist?
What?[/QUOTE]
No, you've got that backwards
[img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqd8rczsUo1qhpzaf.jpg[/img]
When I was a kid, used to wonder if maybe the world loaded as I traveled around it, like a video game :) I thought that I might possibly be the only person existing in the world and that everyone else could be just a part of my own little universe. I then started to believe that maybe there could be even more like me and that we all inhabited interlocking universes of our creations. Mind blowing shit ;)
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38463261]If this theory is true, when you turn your back to see the object, it should first land then. Since it dosent exist while you dont look at it, it should mean that it dosent move, since you dont "measure" it.
[/QUOTE]
Actually no, you're aware that you threw the object. Saying things don't exist until you look at them is a gross understatement of any message that video had, and proof that you should have watched it in entirety.
I'm reading a book on Quantum Physics right now. I understand all of it so far, but this seems to really sensationalize all the ideas behind it.
You know what I fucking hate.
Quantum plonkers. Let's take a system of measurement that we know is unfinished because of its incompatibility with the rest of physics and apply its principles on the function of extremely small scale physical interaction to day to day large scale life shit.
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT WAS MADE FOR, RIGHT
[editline]16th November 2012[/editline]
And of course, like the fucking quantum plonkers that they are, instead of trying to answer questions like "why does observation change the outcome of an experiment", they just go "FUCKING MAGIC I SEE MIRACLES EVERY DAY" and act like they're the pinnacle of fucking intellect for injecting "but the world is full of mysteries" into everything.
I feel sincerely sorry for actual scientists with training in the field of quantum physics.
[QUOTE=hansjurgen;38465368][video=youtube;vQe0oiaBssg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQe0oiaBssg&feature=related[/video]
People who have a problem with the video in the OP should watch this whole documentary, but if you only watch a few minutes, skip to 3:00 for a good graphical representation of all this quantam nonsense[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure that documentary is considered pseudoscientific bullshit by most scientists who have seen it.
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;38467693]Pretty sure that documentary is considered pseudoscientific bullshit by most scientists who have seen it.[/QUOTE]
don't know about the documentary but the double slit experiment is high-school level stuff
[QUOTE=Kalibos;38467809]don't know about the documentary but the double slit experiment is high-school level stuff[/QUOTE]
it's not the experiment, it's how the experiment is presented and it's the conclusions they derive from it
it's the equivalent of reading a bunch of entries from The Origin of Species and then saying "ergo, if we kill inferior people we'll get smarter". I know they aren't the same morally, but in terms of misconstruing science they're about equal.
[QUOTE=Vasili;38463379]The idea of sound is just a human concept.[/QUOTE]
Is there something you don't understand about waves
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38467836]it's not the experiment, it's how the experiment is presented and it's the conclusions they derive from it[/QUOTE]
how is the experiment presented and what conclusions do they derive from it - and how are they wrong?
>mfw laymen still don't understand that "observe" doesn't mean "perceived by a conscious being" in the context of quantum mechanics.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
