• Euclideon (Known from Unlimited Detail) returns with Geoverse™
    118 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lolkork;40752522]I'm not entirely convinced, I want to see some press footage of this that includes a recorded demo that isn't from Euclideon.[/QUOTE] I want to see a white paper that's peer reviewed first before I believe it.
The music made it sound like I was just about to storm an evil wizard's castle.
Why on earth did they try and use a usb stick as an example as a slow device? It's slow at sequential reads: from what they are saying, it abuses the hell out of random seeks and small reads, which as far as I know is something that USB sticks are decently good at, since flash memory basically has no seek time. Also, them running off of a regular webserver is probably pretty painful, since it's all random reads. That's probably a lot of requests per second, and if you actually had a few hundred people streaming it it'd likely be a pretty effective DDOS.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;40751879]It has always been a controversy over whether this is actually real or not.[/QUOTE] It is real. I remember seeing that Euclideon was bought by some geo space company.
[QUOTE=Scot;40753931]It is real. I remember seeing that Euclideon was bought by some geo space company.[/QUOTE] They haven't been bought out by anyone. They've just changed from video games to geospacial. The CEO is still Bruce Dell.
[QUOTE=ShaRose;40753736]Why on earth did they try and use a usb stick as an example as a slow device? It's slow at sequential reads: from what they are saying, it abuses the hell out of random seeks and small reads, which as far as I know is something that USB sticks are decently good at, since flash memory basically has no seek time. Also, them running off of a regular webserver is probably pretty painful, since it's all random reads. That's probably a lot of requests per second, and if you actually had a few hundred people streaming it it'd likely be a pretty effective DDOS.[/QUOTE] From what I gathered it doesn't really sound "random", they mentioned that any map you want to load has to be converted to a special format that indexes everything so that it's able to do fast loading.
It looks like they're trying really hard to get bought out. They're constantly announcing they're revolutionising the industry by showing off all this great tech but then nothing becomes of it. If it was really that great it'd be out by now.
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;40754327]From what I gathered it doesn't really sound "random", they mentioned that any map you want to load has to be converted to a special format that indexes everything so that it's able to do fast loading.[/QUOTE] The point is that flash memory is extremely fast making very small selective reads from anywhere on the memory, because the access time of each memory area is extremely small compared to a hard drive.
[QUOTE=MadBomber;40751830]I dont know if it was the same thing, but wasnt the unlimited detail thing not as impressive as it seemed or somthing along those lines. I remember some kind of kerfuffle about the whole thing.[/QUOTE] I am just waiting for the giant catch to be revealed. If this is honestly as real as they claim it to be then they've made a revolutionary breakthrough for the entire field of computer graphics.
Imagine in the future when google street-view will use that
[QUOTE=BAZ;40754358]It looks like they're trying really hard to get bought out. They're constantly announcing they're revolutionising the industry by showing off all this great tech but then nothing becomes of it. If it was really that great it'd be out by now.[/QUOTE] It is out, they just aren't using it for games for some undisclosed reason. It probably wasn't working and they switched direction.
It's almost like he's putting on that voice. And the video kind of reminds me of those videos you see in sci-fi movies and games where they show some technology than is a far off possibility.
I started reverse engineering that data file They actually have a pascal string, holding a C string, in one case, holding a base64 encoded image for a watermark wat
[QUOTE=Tobba;40752615]Jesus christ that guy is talking out of his ass This isnt too new though, it'll probably never get used in games [B]Its basicaly impossible to animate it[/B], it could get used for environments, but it'd probably look really weird[/QUOTE] Really? Here's a video of a dude who did a simple animation w/ point clouds [media][URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8A4bsfKH8[/URL][/media]
Seriously literally the only person I've heard to pronounce it like that (apart from my mom who did it to fuck with me back in my grammar nazi days) is dr pulaski in star trek TNG who had some mad problem with the android Data. And even then Data fucking bitchslapped her across the room because even emotionless androids are fucking aggravated by that stupid pronunciation.
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;40754924]Really? Here's a video of a dude who did a simple animation w/ point clouds [URL] [/QUOTE] Its been done yes, but that looks pretty low resoloution, and its not fast, its basicaly really really fucking slow, you have to rebuild every affected node of the octree [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] Unless they're not using an octree, which I really doubt, otherwise they would have showed off animation by now I'm guessing they just invented some iterative refining algorithm for finding a suitable node, which is cool nonetheless
[QUOTE=Tobba;40754965]Its been done yes, but that looks pretty low resoloution, and its not fast, its basicaly really really fucking slow[/QUOTE] It's point cloud animation done without their software, what did you expect? Without access to stuff like Euclideon's tech no one has done much voxel/point cloud animation but it's still possible. It's only going to improve as the software is improved.
Why not use regular polygon based models ontop of a voxel environment? :v:
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;40754997]It's point cloud animation done without their software, what did you expect? Without access to stuff like Euclideon's tech no one has done much voxel/point cloud animation but it's still possible. It's only going to improve as the software is improved.[/QUOTE] The point isnt the rendering, its the animation To animate a sparse voxel octree you have to move the lowest nodes, then rebuild all affected higher nodes, which is a shitload of data shuffling Good fucking luck getting that done in reasonable time for a single object
[QUOTE=Phaselancer;40752212]I would love to see this with games where you're in a city sandbox. Scan places like Seattle or New York and you get the best possible city.[/QUOTE] zombie survival script something for random loot like borderlands, 1000 players, randomized enterable buildings
Whoa, I actually downloaded their geo thing file from their server and it's 600mb in size. Either this is a seriously accurate hoax or it's a real thing. [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] this is the thing [URL]http://euclideon-apac-sydney.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/datasets/Kimoto_8cm.uds[/URL] [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=DrogenViech;40755024]Why not use regular polygon based models ontop of a voxel environment? :v:[/QUOTE] It'd look weird, like in those old cartoons where the backdrops were pre-painted and the moving characters were painted in another way.
[QUOTE=TerabyteS_;40755255]Whoa, I actually downloaded their geo thing file from their server and it's 600mb in size. Either this is a seriously accurate hoax or it's a real thing. [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] this is the thing [url]http://euclideon-apac-sydney.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/datasets/Kimoto_8cm.uds[/url][/QUOTE] How does it work and what is it?
[QUOTE=Tobba;40755039]The point isnt the rendering, its the animation To animate a sparse voxel octree you have to move the lowest nodes, then rebuild all affected higher nodes, which is a shitload of data shuffling Good fucking luck getting that done in reasonable time for a single object[/QUOTE] What if it's some sort of hash table or tree with a hash function that matches every point near a line? We're sure that they're using [i]some[/i] datastructure. We also know that their algorithm is a search algorithm (probably based on this datastructure). What these algorithms do or what those datastructures are can only be guessed. I'd like to compare this with databases. Indexed columns can be accessed very fast, even from the hard drive.
I believe this is real, but animation is probably the catch, which is why they're pushing a program that utilizes a static environment...and have only shown static environments. As someone already mentioned it's a search algorithm searching through a massive set of points organized in some way. He mentioned in the video something like they can convert 3.5 billion points per hour to their data format, which is required to be read by their program. So the data is organized, and changing it in real time most likely breaks everything, or at least slows it to a crawl if it has to reorganize itself. Or maybe they have something else up their sleeve in regards to that.
[QUOTE=gerbe1;40755280]How does it work and what is it?[/QUOTE] I don't know, it'd require some complex reverse engineering to know, but by looking at a dump of the file I can clearly see some bits of pertinent text that seem to describe the file. Again, if this is a hoax, it's seriously well done, and I doubt it is. [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] Here's the starting section of the file: [code]00000000 ff fe 00 00 55 44 53 33 06 00 00 00 5f 3d 00 00 |....UDS3...._=..| 00000010 0a d7 a3 45 07 00 6d 65 74 65 72 73 00 00 00 80 |...E..meters....| 00000020 3f 11 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 f0 3f 00 00 00 |?...........?...| 00000030 00 00 00 f0 3f 00 00 00 00 00 00 f0 3f ec 51 b8 |....?.......?.Q.| 00000040 1e 45 83 e5 40 1f 85 eb 51 a4 e8 f6 c0 71 3d 0a |.E..@...Q....q=.| 00000050 d7 a3 86 a3 c0 00 00 00 3f 00 00 00 3f 00 00 00 |........?...?...| 00000060 3f 00 00 00 3f 00 00 00 3f 00 ff ff 3e 00 00 b3 |?...?...?...>...| 00000070 3d 00 36 e1 3e 00 28 3d 3d 04 00 00 00 0e 00 50 |=.6.>.(==......P| 00000080 72 6f 6a 65 63 74 69 6f 6e 57 4b 54 00 85 02 50 |rojectionWKT...P| 00000090 52 4f 4a 43 53 5b 22 4a 47 44 32 30 30 30 20 2f |ROJCS["JGD2000 /| 000000a0 20 4a 61 70 61 6e 20 50 6c 61 6e 65 20 52 65 63 | Japan Plane Rec| 000000b0 74 61 6e 67 75 6c 61 72 20 43 53 20 56 49 22 2c |tangular CS VI",| 000000c0 47 45 4f 47 43 53 5b 22 4a 47 44 32 30 30 30 22 |GEOGCS["JGD2000"| 000000d0 2c 44 41 54 55 4d 5b 22 4a 61 70 61 6e 65 73 65 |,DATUM["Japanese| 000000e0 5f 47 65 6f 64 65 74 69 63 5f 44 61 74 75 6d 5f |_Geodetic_Datum_| 000000f0 32 30 30 30 22 2c 53 50 48 45 52 4f 49 44 5b 22 |2000",SPHEROID["| 00000100 47 52 53 20 31 39 38 30 22 2c 36 33 37 38 31 33 |GRS 1980",637813| 00000110 37 2c 32 39 38 2e 32 35 37 32 32 32 31 30 31 2c |7,298.257222101,| 00000120 41 55 54 48 4f 52 49 54 59 5b 22 45 50 53 47 22 |AUTHORITY["EPSG"| 00000130 2c 22 37 30 31 39 22 5d 5d 2c 54 4f 57 47 53 38 |,"7019"]],TOWGS8| 00000140 34 5b 30 2c 30 2c 30 2c 30 2c 30 2c 30 2c 30 5d |4[0,0,0,0,0,0,0]| 00000150 2c 41 55 54 48 4f 52 49 54 59 5b 22 45 50 53 47 |,AUTHORITY["EPSG| 00000160 22 2c 22 36 36 31 32 22 5d 5d 2c 50 52 49 4d 45 |","6612"]],PRIME| 00000170 4d 5b 22 47 72 65 65 6e 77 69 63 68 22 2c 30 2c |M["Greenwich",0,| 00000180 41 55 54 48 4f 52 49 54 59 5b 22 45 50 53 47 22 |AUTHORITY["EPSG"| 00000190 2c 22 38 39 30 31 22 5d 5d 2c 55 4e 49 54 5b 22 |,"8901"]],UNIT["| 000001a0 64 65 67 72 65 65 22 2c 30 2e 30 31 37 34 35 33 |degree",0.017453| 000001b0 32 39 32 35 31 39 39 34 33 33 2c 41 55 54 48 4f |2925199433,AUTHO| 000001c0 52 49 54 59 5b 22 45 50 53 47 22 2c 22 39 31 32 |RITY["EPSG","912| 000001d0 32 22 5d 5d 2c 41 55 54 48 4f 52 49 54 59 5b 22 |2"]],AUTHORITY["| 000001e0 45 50 53 47 22 2c 22 34 36 31 32 22 5d 5d 2c 50 |EPSG","4612"]],P| 000001f0 52 4f 4a 45 43 54 49 4f 4e 5b 22 54 72 61 6e 73 |ROJECTION["Trans| 00000200 76 65 72 73 65 5f 4d 65 72 63 61 74 6f 72 22 5d |verse_Mercator"]| 00000210 2c 50 41 52 41 4d 45 54 45 52 5b 22 6c 61 74 69 |,PARAMETER["lati| 00000220 74 75 64 65 5f 6f 66 5f 6f 72 69 67 69 6e 22 2c |tude_of_origin",| 00000230 33 36 5d 2c 50 41 52 41 4d 45 54 45 52 5b 22 63 |36],PARAMETER["c| 00000240 65 6e 74 72 61 6c 5f 6d 65 72 69 64 69 61 6e 22 |entral_meridian"| 00000250 2c 31 33 36 5d 2c 50 41 52 41 4d 45 54 45 52 5b |,136],PARAMETER[| 00000260 22 73 63 61 6c 65 5f 66 61 63 74 6f 72 22 2c 30 |"scale_factor",0| 00000270 2e 39 39 39 39 5d 2c 50 41 52 41 4d 45 54 45 52 |.9999],PARAMETER| 00000280 5b 22 66 61 6c 73 65 5f 65 61 73 74 69 6e 67 22 |["false_easting"| 00000290 2c 30 5d 2c 50 41 52 41 4d 45 54 45 52 5b 22 66 |,0],PARAMETER["f| 000002a0 61 6c 73 65 5f 6e 6f 72 74 68 69 6e 67 22 2c 30 |alse_northing",0| 000002b0 5d 2c 55 4e 49 54 5b 22 6d 65 74 72 65 22 2c 31 |],UNIT["metre",1| 000002c0 2c 41 55 54 48 4f 52 49 54 59 5b 22 45 50 53 47 |,AUTHORITY["EPSG| 000002d0 22 2c 22 39 30 30 31 22 5d 5d 2c 41 58 49 53 5b |","9001"]],AXIS[| 000002e0 22 58 22 2c 4e 4f 52 54 48 5d 2c 41 58 49 53 5b |"X",NORTH],AXIS[| 000002f0 22 59 22 2c 45 41 53 54 5d 2c 41 55 54 48 4f 52 |"Y",EAST],AUTHOR| 00000300 49 54 59 5b 22 45 50 53 47 22 2c 22 32 34 34 38 |ITY["EPSG","2448| 00000310 22 5d 5d 00 11 00 53 6f 75 72 63 65 50 6f 69 6e |"]]...SourcePoin| 00000320 74 43 6f 75 6e 74 00 0a 00 31 33 32 38 30 35 32 |tCount...1328052| 00000330 38 33 00 0a 00 57 61 74 65 72 6d 61 72 6b 00 0f |83...Watermark..| 00000340 3a 69 56 42 4f 52 77 30 4b 47 67 6f 41 41 41 41 |:iVBORw0KGgoAAAA| 00000350 4e 53 55 68 45 55 67 41 41 41 51 41 41 41 41 41 |NSUhEUgAAAQAAAAA| 00000360 32 43 41 59 41 41 41 41 6f 4a 6b 64 69 41 41 41 |2CAYAAAAoJkdiAAA| 00000370 41 42 47 64 42 54 55 45 41 41 4c 47 4f 66 50 74 |ABGdBTUEAALGOfPt| 00000380 52 6b 77 41 41 41 43 42 6a 53 46 4a 4e 41 41 43 |RkwAAACBjSFJNAAC| 00000390 48 44 77 41 41 6a 41 38 41 41 50 31 53 41 41 43 |HDwAAjA8AAP1SAAC| 000003a0 42 51 41 41 41 66 58 6b 41 41 4f 6d 4c 41 41 41 |BQAAAfXkAAOmLAAA| 000003b0 38 35 51 41 41 47 63 78 7a 50 49 56 33 41 41 41 |85QAAGcxzPIV3AAA| 000003c0 4b 4f 57 6c 44 51 31 42 51 61 47 39 30 62 33 4e |KOWlDQ1BQaG90b3N| 000003d0 6f 62 33 41 67 53 55 4e 44 49 48 42 79 62 32 5a |ob3AgSUNDIHByb2Z| 000003e0 70 62 47 55 41 41 45 6a 48 6e 5a 5a 33 56 46 54 |pbGUAAEjHnZZ3VFT| 000003f0 58 46 6f 66 50 76 58 64 36 6f 63 30 77 41 6c 4b |XFofPvXd6oc0wAlK| 00000400 47 33 72 76 41 41 4e 4a 37 6b 31 35 46 59 5a 67 |G3rvAANJ7k15FYZg| 00000410 5a 59 43 67 44 44 6a 4d 30 73 53 47 69 41 68 46 |ZYCgDDjM0sSGiAhF| 00000420 46 52 4a 6f 69 53 46 44 45 67 4e 46 51 4a 46 5a |FRJoiSFDEgNFQJFZ| 00000430 45 73 52 41 55 56 4c 41 48 4a 41 67 6f 4d 52 68 |EsRAUVLAHJAgoMRh| 00000440 46 56 43 78 76 52 74 61 4c 72 71 79 38 39 2f 4c |FVCxvRtaLrqy89/L| 00000450 79 2b 2b 4f 73 62 2b 32 7a 39 37 6e 37 37 4c 33 |y++Osb+2z97n77L3| 00000460 50 57 68 63 41 6b 71 63 76 6c 35 63 47 53 77 47 |PWhcAkqcvl5cGSwG| 00000470 51 79 68 50 77 67 7a 79 63 36 52 47 52 55 58 54 |QyhPwgzyc6RGRUXT| 00000480 73 41 49 41 42 48 6d 43 41 4b 51 42 4d 56 6b 61 |sAIABHmCAKQBMVka| 00000490 36 58 37 42 37 43 42 44 4a 79 38 32 46 6e 69 46 |6X7B7CBDJy82FniF|[/code] The stuff after the bit of legible text is gibberish, which means it's encoded binary data, probably representing the points of their representation. [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] Looks like the file contains something like 132805283 points, isn't that very few? There are probably more vertices in sight in a normal render by a polygonal game engine.
This video is 1000x more impressive than their older ones. It seemed immediately obvious that this wouldn't work very well for video games and it looked a lot worse than even games from 2004. In this video what they are showing looks actually useful, plausible and even looks better than competing technologies.
[QUOTE=TerabyteS_;40755725] Looks like the file contains something like 132805283 points, isn't that very few? There are probably more vertices in sight in a normal render by a polygonal game engine.[/QUOTE] Thats the source point count Its probably even fewer in the file
[QUOTE=TerabyteS_;40755255]Whoa, I actually downloaded their geo thing file from their server and it's 600mb in size. Either this is a seriously accurate hoax or it's a real thing. [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] this is the thing [URL]http://euclideon-apac-sydney.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/datasets/Kimoto_8cm.uds[/URL] [editline]23rd May 2013[/editline] It'd look weird, like in those old cartoons where the backdrops were pre-painted and the moving characters were painted in another way.[/QUOTE] you shold see what other things you might be able to download
-snip wrong thread!-
Requested a demo from the site [url=http://www.euclideon.com/products/geoverse/]here[/url]. Not very hopeful that they'll actually send it, but I made my comment sound as professional as possible, and even threw in a few compliments here and there. I'll be checking my email, but I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they actually ever send the demo.
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