[QUOTE=Garry #2;53187916]hopefully its more like melee and not terrible like smash 4
[editline]9th March 2018[/editline]
:^)[/QUOTE]
hopefully it'll keep the art style of smash 4 and not look like shit like melee
[QUOTE=Garry #2;53187916]hopefully its more like melee and not terrible like smash 4
[editline]9th March 2018[/editline]
:^)[/QUOTE]
brawl is better than melee
[QUOTE=alpha00zero;53188548]With how short dev time they had between now and Smash 4, pretty sure it's going to use the last game's engine as a base. To cut on dev time and rework or add things on top.
[/QUOTE]
Smash 4 was largely an asset flip of Brawl.
If Smash 5 is the same then it it is also Brawl.
[QUOTE=Garry #2;53188522]i wonder when they will start catering to the melee crowd. its a crowd bigger than smash 4 but nintendo just wants to ignore that they exist. Hopefully this game appeals to melee players[/QUOTE]
Because a lot of the Melee crowd is just dead-set on their ways and probably wouldn't switch to a new Smash unless it was a flaw-for-flaw remake of Melee. Why try to sell to people who insist on playing your old game, when you could instead sell to people who might actually like your new games?
Melee was good and all but some people treat it like Sakurai came down from the mountain with it carved in stone. It's not perfect - it has a ton of problems, like the unbalanced roster and a lot of glitches that have become normal competitive movement tech. What sane game designer would deliberately make a game with a move that required controllers to be broken in a very specific way? Yet the competitive Melee players insist on it.
The obsession with Gamecube controllers is sort of emblematic of the whole problem with the "hardcore" Smash community. I love the Gamecube controller but the newer gamepads are just objectively better hardware. I [I]prefer[/I] to play Smash 4 with a Pro Controller - I [I]have[/I] the adapter and four 'cube controllers and I only bust them out when friends are over. Yet half the "hardcore" Smash players will probably start a boycott for this one if it doesn't come with an adapter so they can keep using their three-generation-old controllers.
The problems go beyond that, but it's pretty representative of the whole problem with the hardcore Melee community - they don't want change for the better, they just want the same old shit.
[QUOTE=Garry #2;53188522]i wonder when they will start catering to the melee crowd. its a crowd bigger than smash 4 but nintendo just wants to ignore that they exist. Hopefully this game appeals to melee players[/QUOTE]
lol i wish but nintendo hates melee
It's probably going to be like Smash 4. I'd like it like Melee too but the problem is how badly the meta emphaiszed all of the design flaws of Melee as well as the bugs and glitches; It would be against everything that Nintendo wants to appeal to if they were to make a faithful throwback to Melee. Not to mention it's just going to split up the community more like with Project M
It would be nice if the new game plays a bit faster though.
the only way we'll get a melee replacement is if they actually remake melee bit for bit in some sort of melee remastered. they'll never go back to melee style in their new games
[QUOTE=elitehakor;53188600]the only way we'll get a melee replacement is if they actually remake melee bit for bit in some sort of melee remastered. they'll never go back to melee style in their new games[/QUOTE]
Even then, high level Melee players would just stick to the GC version. The second they see Fox's side smash comes out 1 frame slower or Shiek can't stay invincible on ledge forever they're not going to touch it.
[QUOTE=Oizen;53188579]Smash 4 was largely an asset flip of Brawl.
If Smash 5 is the same then it it is also Brawl.[/QUOTE]
Melee actually shares a lot of coding with Brawl, although nowhere near as much as Brawl->SSB4. The only true cleancut transition code-wise I believe is 64->Melee, where most of the mechanics changed in behavior from a formula standpoint.
I'm not saying it won't be an asset flip (Brawl uses several animations hidden on Melee's disc, among other things. SSB4 reused a ton of voices from Brawl), but that doesn't necessarily mean the game [i]will[/i] play like Brawl/SSB4, it just means it's fairly likely.
Come on Waluigi. It's his turn.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;53188586]The obsession with Gamecube controllers is sort of emblematic of the whole problem with the "hardcore" Smash community. I love the Gamecube controller but the newer gamepads are just objectively better hardware. I [I]prefer[/I] to play Smash 4 with a Pro Controller - I [I]have[/I] the adapter and four 'cube controllers and I only bust them out when friends are over. Yet half the "hardcore" Smash players will probably start a boycott for this one if it doesn't come with an adapter so they can keep using their three-generation-old controllers.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with the idea that yeah, there's better controller options today, but the problem with just doing away with GC controllers has to do with muscle memory. Basic things like initiating a dash, tilting, short hopping, pivot grabbing have been trained into my subconcious when using a GC controller for years and no doubt this is the case for others too.
I have nothing against the Pro controller and agree that that it's a better option in pretty much every way. But personally, when it comes to Smash, I play significantly worse with anything other than the GC controller because I depend on it so much to input what I actually want to input. I've actually been able to play some similar games like Lethal League and Dustforce much better after trying to play them with a GC controller - pulling off tech is so much easier with it in my experience.
At the very least dropping GC controller support in the new game would be incredibly inconvenient because I would be forced to learn a new controller, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo actually did it. It might actually be a good thing since I wouldn't have to keep bringing my ancient controller around that I only use for one game.
Does this mean Ice Climbers can come home
tbh I don't think the melee community really likes GC controllers as much as you think they do. There's a lot of interest in hitbox or fight stick style ergonomic controllers. For that matter, I don't think it's fair to say that the melee community is stuck in it's ways when they're constantly attempting to change things for the better, whether it be attempting to make the new smash they never got with PM or even just trying to fix controller inconsistencies with UCF.
PM alone shows that there's a considerable demand for a new melee style smash game. Like seriously, if smash 5 had melee's gameplay with smash 4's graphics and balance I would be so on that shit
I think I've finally been sold on the Switch. That last part gave me some chills, damn.
Crash coming to Smash would not only be the most hype I've ever been in my life, but it would further stomp on the 20-foot-deep grave of PlayStation All-Stars
[QUOTE=Oizen;53188579]Smash 4 was largely an asset flip of Brawl.
If Smash 5 is the same then it it is also Brawl.[/QUOTE]
You....have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Asset flip implies a large majority of content are pulled directly from previous sources with little to no modification. Apart from maybe a few re-used voice lines and updated stages from previous installments, SSB4 is largely made up of original content that wouldn't even work in Brawl due to technical limitations.
Its going to be one hell of a ride seeing people suggest Sans to be in smash now that undertale was announced for the switch.
[QUOTE=KingKombat;53188738]Crash coming to Smash would not only be the most hype I've ever been in my life, but it would further stomp on the 20-foot-deep grave of PlayStation All-Stars[/QUOTE]
Now, imagine a Smash match with Snake, Cloud, and Crash. Maybe add Ryu for good measure.
[QUOTE=Nidhogg;53188756]You....have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Asset flip implies a large majority of content are pulled directly from previous games with little to no modification. Apart from maybe a few re-used voice lines and updated stages from previous installments, SSB4 is largely made up of original content that wouldn't even work in Brawl due to technical limitations.[/QUOTE]
That's actually inaccurate. SSB4 uses many animations from Brawl (most blatant with swimming animations, although there are several others taken and not remade), took a large amount of Brawl's music and is using a derived version of Brawl's engine (which itself is a modified Melee engine. Coding-wise), which is why many of the same glitches are present in both Brawl or SSB4. (For example, DACUS was originally possible in SSB4 before a patch, Wario had a grab release glitch in both Brawl and SSB4, both games improperly handle swimming under Pirate Ship in the exact same way, same calculation formulas, etc) The filename structuring is also very similar from what I've seen.
Only a small amount of the cast actually got new voice lines; most were grafted from Brawl or other sources (i.e. Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart Wii in Rosalina's case), but that's par for the course with Smash and Brawl was more of an exception than the norm in terms of how many characters got new clips.
I hope they expand on the single player more.
[QUOTE=God of Ashes;53188783]I hope they expand on the single player more.[/QUOTE]
If I had to describe Smash 4's single player, it'd be scatterbrained. There were like, 20 different modes you could play but they were either super shallow or boring as hell. I think my favorite was Trophy Rush but I know I'm in the outlier when I say that.
[QUOTE=koeniginator;53188221]imagine chosen undead in smash[/QUOTE]
You joke but realize we're getting a Solaire amiibo.
I would probably EXPLODE if Solaire was in Smash.
*snip* wrong thread
Yeeeeeeeees, good Nintendo now please announce one more game i'm waiting for (New Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion or Advance Wars) and you have my money.
[QUOTE=The Duke;53188778]That's actually inaccurate. SSB4 uses many animations from Brawl (most blatant with swimming animations, although there are several others taken and not remade), took a large amount of Brawl's music and is using a derived version of Brawl's engine (which itself is a modified Melee engine. Coding-wise), which is why many of the same glitches are present in both Brawl or SSB4. (For example, DACUS was originally possible in SSB4 before a patch, Wario had a grab release glitch in both Brawl and SSB4, both games improperly handle swimming under Pirate Ship in the exact same way, same calculation formulas, etc) The filename structuring is also very similar from what I've seen.
Only a small amount of the cast actually got new voice lines; most were grafted from Brawl or other sources (i.e. Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart Wii in Rosalina's case), but that's par for the course with Smash and Brawl was more of an exception than the norm in terms of how many characters got new clips.[/QUOTE]
Re-using the same game engine with all its quirks is not an asset flip. That's like saying Portal 2 is an asset flip of Half-Life 2 simply because it runs on the same engine.
Re-using existing content that goes into your engine IS an asset flip. So stuff like re-using voice lines and animations, yes, that is indeed an asset flip and you're correct about that. But that only makes up a small minority compared to what else the game offers. Everything visually is redone from scratch, which is a ton of work in of itself, new programming was done to accommodate the expanded features that didn't exist in Brawl as well as fine-tuning pre-existing features, and of course the plethora of additional content that was added post-launch.
I'm just making sure Oizen doesn't take their hard work for granted as his post implies no effort was put into their game. This isn't a [i]"FIFA '12 rebranded as FIFA '13 with updated team uniforms"[/i] situation. Calling SSB4 an "asset flip" is an extremely ignorant thing to say, sarcastic or not.
Smash 4 can also be given criticism for the fact that most of its veteran cast were still rocking animations, tweaked or not, from Melee, and some of those Melee animations were recreations of the 64 animations. While a few veterans could stand their own, few got significant enough updates to really let them hold their own against Brawl and 4 newcomers. A skilled Mario or Link can do some damage, but a skilled Ryu or Bayonetta can annihilate you out of sheer options and capability. I don't think they're probably gonna get radical shifts in that regard for this new game, either.
It was a reskin of Brawl, to the point that the modding community really just had to get around the new console limitations before they could go to town on modding it the same way they modded Brawl, but it was a good enough reskin that it managed to stand on its own.
Go on Sakurai, put Solaire into Smash I dare you. He's got his own amiibo and if you put Bayonetta and Snake in then anything is possible
[QUOTE=usaokay;53188806]Awww yeah, we're gonna get Norman Reedus as a fighter.[/QUOTE]
You inspired me to make this
[media]https://twitter.com/AkujiTheSniper/status/972047974200107009[/media]
[QUOTE=Nidhogg;53188869]Everything visually is redone from scratch, which is a ton of work in of itself, new programming was done to accommodate the expanded features that didn't exist in Brawl as well as fine-tuning pre-existing features, and of course the plethora of additional content that was added post-launch.[/Quote]
This is actually inaccurate as well. Most of the models for veterans and returning stages are based on Brawl's in some form or another, but enhanced. Examples of this are Delfino Plaza's models and textures being modified and Luigi actually still has Brawl textures on the underside of his hat, not visible during gameplay:
[T]https://tcrf.net/images/a/ac/SSB4WiiU-Luigi_Hat.png[/T]
A lot of the animations are new and many of the character meshes are too (obviously moreso for newcomers), but it is certainly not a case of them all being redone from scratch, especially because a lot of the character files contain unused animations from their Brawl incarnations (mostly in locations that were changed, like Olimar's up B which still has animations related to the tether, characters that could glide and even animations that are unused in both games, such as Diddy laughing), which directly indicates that they were built upon Brawl animation collectons.
[QUOTE=Nidhogg;53188869]I'm just making sure Oizen doesn't take their hard work for granted as his post implies no effort was put into their game. This isn't a [i]"FIFA '12 rebranded as FIFA '13 with updated team uniforms"[/i] situation. Calling SSB4 an "asset flip" is an extremely ignorant thing to say, sarcastic or not.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. It's definitely nothing on that level, for sure.
[QUOTE=Metaru;53188774]Its going to be one hell of a ride seeing people suggest Sans to be in smash now that undertale was announced for the switch.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I wouldn't really mind. [sp]I could see his abilities be transferred into a fighting-game[/sp]. Plus, it'd be kind of poetic considering Undertale is so heavily influenced by Earthbound.
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