[QUOTE=.Isak.;52229059]TRP is toxic and genuinely disturbing. There is such a thing as positive masculinity, and a core part of it is not being afraid to express emotions and be oneself. TRP shuts all that down, bases personal self-worth on how many people you can emotionally manipulate into fucking you, and then wonders why they're unfulfilled as human beings.
/r/MensLib is a much better resource for addressing inequalities that men face in a constructive way. It encourages people to be themselves and not bind themselves to arbitrary gender roles. If you want to be effeminate as a man, go for it. If you want to be a masculine alpha male who sleeps around, go for it - just respect others while you do so.
Positive masculinity needs to take off. A lot of feminist lingo pushes men away from the entire gender equality discussion. People hear "toxic masculinity" and think it's feminists wanting to control men's natural state, not realizing that it's about freeing men from strict gender roles and allowing them to express themselves openly without concern for how they "should" behave. There's some really strict gender roles, and a lot of men are taught by society that their value is about how many girls they get or how much money they have or the car they drive - all very materialistic shit. Men need a movement to address the gender roles that we're cooped up in. TRP and MRA and MGTOW are not that movement - they reinforce those gender roles. Guys who just want to find a girl or a guy and cuddle and read books together and do lovey-dovey shit are "betas," and women are just using them on the cock carousel. It's restrictive unless you're already a guy who likes to lift weights and have lots of casual sex. Real freedom from gender roles is encouraging individuality, and TRP does the opposite and defines men as one of two types - alpha or beta. Don't fit in with those roles? You're a beta male, worthless. It's negative and restrictive and damages men who don't fit in the specific roles.[/QUOTE]
Just FYI, since you seem to be basing your post off the title alone. The movie isn't about TRP the subreddit or lifestyle. It's a movie about a feminist trying to learn more about men's issues. Red pill is a matrix reference in this case(She didn't know about a lot of the issues men faced), not the alpha, beta cuck garbage that is TRP.
Really unfortunate title.
[QUOTE=Drury;52228166]I'll give you the differences between men and women, but there is no scientific proof of any remarkable differences between races. It's purely a cultural matter.
Men and women is a different ballpark because hormones, but I still think culture has more of an impact here than we give it credit for.[/QUOTE]
i should clarify
i did mean biological differences exclusively to men and women
with race the differences are social/perceptual. For example, affirmative action exists because different races tend to have different experiences when looking for employment due to discrimination and such.
I probably could've put that more eloquently.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;52229413]See, this is one problem I have with feminist lingo. You're taking "toxic masculinity" to mean that masculinity [I]itself[/I] is toxic. That's not at all what it's supposed to mean, even if some people have misinterpreted it to mean that. Toxic masculinity is the tyrant or the brute. It's the rapist. It's the angry drunkard. It's the [I]uncontrolled[/I] predatory impulses within masculinity. It's not that masculinity [I]itself[/I] is bad, which is why I'm citing /r/MensLib and talking about positive masculinity. When people talk about "rape culture" and "toxic masculinity," other people are quick to switch to the defensive. They're not a rapist, they've never wanted to rape anyone, how is there a rape culture? Masculinity is toxic? So all men are bad and toxic, right? Not at all. There's a language issue with what terminology stuck to refer to certain concepts.
Feminists are not opposed to masculinity. Toxic masculinity is not masculinity, it is masculinity amped up to an extreme level that starts to bring harm both to others and oneself. Toxic masculinity is 50's American society, where men are so pressured to fit a specific masculine role that failure to achieve this ideal masculine archetype drives men to drink, and to abuse (not only women, but themselves, through recklessness and self-harm and excessive risk-taking).
The pushback against "toxic masculinity" is not to "train masculinity out of existence." Masculinity is not just the rapist and the abuser and the reckless drunkard - it's fatherhood, it's being a loving husband, it's having the courage to stand up to injustice, it's far, far more than the predatory base instinct. Feminists (well, some, hopefully most) are aware of that. The problem is that people perceive a fight against gender roles as the "feminization" of men, because suddenly men are able to express behavioral traits that aren't necessarily rambo-level masculine where they need to drive fast cars and have reckless sex and treat women as objects and fetishize war and murder.
Even in your description, where you recognize that there is more to masculinity, you're sticking it to a very specific western ideal. The leader. Well, not everyone can be a king or a leader. Not everyone is courageous enough. Does that make the shy, nerdy kid who's too socially anxious to speak his mind "not a real man?" No. You're talking story tropes - masculinity is way more complex and nuanced. A quiet, loving stay-at-home dad isn't a wise king - he doesn't even provide for his family. He can easily still be a masculine character. Breaking down these incredibly rigid expectations is how you get past the "toxic masculinity" and recognize forms of masculinity that are less predatory and obsessed with power.[/QUOTE]
Until feminists acknowledge the role women play in defining masculinity they're going to be running around in circles forever getting nothing done. You can't criticise masculinity and tell men they need to change and then proceed to enforce that exact type of masculinity by giving preference to those types of men and making fun of men who don't fit traditional masculinity.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52236802]Until feminists acknowledge the role women play in defining masculinity they're going to be running around in circles forever getting nothing done. You can't criticise masculinity and tell men they need to change and then proceed to enforce that exact type of masculinity by giving preference to those types of men and making fun of men who don't fit traditional masculinity.[/QUOTE]
sounds like you're hangin with the wrong women
[QUOTE=Eric95;52239914]sounds like you're hangin with the wrong women[/QUOTE]
Do you think men would be that way if women didn't like it?
[QUOTE=Luni;52228262]As an aside: isn't sh0eonhead just another alt-right talking head at this point?
I watched TWO VIDEOS back during GG and I got alt-right/TRIGGERED SJW shit in my recommendations for [i]weeks.[/i][/QUOTE]
Oh my we can't have that can we, I only want people who confirm what I already believe in MY feed.
Just watched this documentary two days ago with a friend, was surprisingly well made and pretty balanced as the creator was a feminist herself. Definitely worth a watch if seeing some issues from both sides is something that interests you.
[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;52227920]but I still can't help but cringe at the phrase "red pill" and I actually find it ironic because a lot of transphobic people use it and the term is from the matrix right, the Wachowski are both transgender so its pretty funny :v:[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly, didn't the Wachowski sisters get the idea of specifically a red pill from a billboard in Bladerunner?
[QUOTE=Paramud;52252707]If I remember correctly, didn't the Wachowski sisters get the idea of specifically a red pill from a billboard in Bladerunner?[/QUOTE]
Sisters? I thought only one of them was transgender?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52229758]Lovely titles.
It always amazes me how people just make up a bullshit term to lump people who they disagree with into that category just so they can dismiss them entirely without ever addressing their argument.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51969617]More like he thought SJWs are bullshit and started watching/reading/listening to the opposition and absorbed some shit ideas from them beyond the topic of SJWs.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations!
You're a hypocrite.
[QUOTE=Tuskin;52253497]Sisters? I thought only one of them was transgender?[/QUOTE]
They both made the transition.
[QUOTE=Tuskin;52253497]Sisters? I thought only one of them was transgender?[/QUOTE]
Both of them are now
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52253589]Both of them are now[/QUOTE]
Which to me raises questions (and I hope this doesn't sound insensitive) of how much transgenderism is based on genes and biological factors.
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