Hmm, as a trans girl I am blessed (/s) with a deep, manly voice. I guess that makes me privileged when I play video games, then. Who knew? Or do gamers have some magic Misogy-Sense that makes them automatically detect when somebody's not a white, straight, cisgender man?
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46624084]Hmm, as a trans girl I am blessed (/s) with a deep, manly voice. I guess that makes me privileged when I play video games, then. Who knew? Or do gamers have some magic Misogy-Sense that makes them automatically detect when somebody's not a white, straight, cisgender man?[/QUOTE]
when you're a white cismale gaming you obviously gain the powers of a Highlander
[QUOTE=Frosty701;46622823]did you guys who rated dumb even finish watching[/QUOTE]
I only watched a minute of it and dumbed it, then I saw your comment and decided to finish it. I want my four minutes back, my opinion hasn't changed.
[QUOTE]1. I can choose to remain completely oblivious or indifferent to the harassment many women face in gaming spaces.[/QUOTE]
So can women, or anyone for that matter. This isn't a privilege. It's a choice.
[QUOTE]2. I am never told the video games or the surrounding culture is not intended for me because I am male.[/QUOTE]
If people tell women that games aren't for them, then they are probably either not gamers or complete dicks. That's not a prevalent problem in the gaming world.
[QUOTE]3. I can publicly post my username, GamerTag, or contact information online without having to fear being stalked or sexually harassed because of my gender.[/QUOTE]
Because men don't suffer this problem as well? This is not an exclusively women-only problem.
[QUOTE]4. I will never be asked to prove my gaming cred simply because of my gender.[/QUOTE]
What in the flying fuck is "gaming cred"? Seriously.
[QUOTE]5. If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games, no one will automatically assume I'm faking my interest just to get attention from other gamers.[/QUOTE]
What if they do? I know of a whole lot of guys who, if suddenly said "I loves games, I'm a gamer", I would be pretty suspicious.
[QUOTE]6. I can look at practically any gaming website, show or magazine and see the voices of people who have my own gender widely represented.[/QUOTE]
And that is a problem why? Do people really expect women to just magically appear in gaming journalism?
[QUOTE]7. When I go to a gaming event or convention I can be relatively certain that I won't be harassed, groped, propositioned, or cat called by total strangers.[/QUOTE]
Because men don't experience this problem. Right. I like how this entire list also marginalizes the gay gamer community, as if they don't matter simply because they're male. I know of a few gay-friendly gaming sessions around here where that is (or was) a serious problem. I've been to a few, and we all get along, but there are creeps of all kinds, gamers or not.
[QUOTE]8. I will never be asked or expected to speak for all other gamers who share my gender.[/QUOTE]
[b][i]which is totally what you are doing right fucking now[/i][/b]
[QUOTE]9. I can be sure that my gaming performance, good or bad, won't be attributed to, or reflect on, my gender as a whole.[/QUOTE]
This is a problem, sure. Chalk one up for FF.
[QUOTE]10. My gaming ability will never be called into question based on unrelated natural biological functions.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even going to touch this one.
[QUOTE]11. I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won't be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner.[/QUOTE]
What? How is this at all relevant? If you are annoying or loud, people probably won't pay attention to what you have to say regardless.
[QUOTE]12. I can openly say that my favorite games are casual, odd, non-violent, artistic, or cute without fear that my opinions will reinforce the stereotype that men are not real gamers.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, this is getting stupid. If your favorite game is Polly Prissy Pants and the Search for the Sparkling Spring, then you're probably not a real "gamer" gamer. A casual gamer, perhaps, but not the typical definition of a gamer.
[QUOTE]13. When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked or assumed to be buying it for a wife, daughter, or girlfriend.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and when I order the XL pizza with extra cheese, chances are I will not be asked or assumed to be sharing it with everyone else in the apartment (nobody). Honestly, god forbid people have opinions and assumptions of you. That would be awful.
[QUOTE]14. The vast majority of games studios, past and present, have been led and populated primarily by people of my own gender, and as such most of their products have been specifically catered to my demographic.[/QUOTE]
So now, while they try to conjure up this idea that girl gamers need to be accepted and assimilate into the gaming community, they explicitly point out that the female demographic requires a totally separate product style. Is there this magic hidden chest of video game ideas that are exclusively for (and would be absolutely loved by) female gamers, but the misogynistic male-dominated markets have kept them all under wraps?
[QUOTE]15. I can walk into any gaming store and see images in my gender widely represented as powerful heroes, dastardly villains, and non-playable characters alike.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, the "there are no girl characters in video games" argument. Next.
[QUOTE]16. I will almost always have the option to play a character of my gender, as most protagonists as heroes will be male by default.[/QUOTE]
See above.
[QUOTE]17. I do not have to carefully navigate my engagement with online communities or gaming spaces in order to avoid or mitigate the possibility of being harassed because of my gender.[/QUOTE]
Maybe instead of carefully navigating to avoid commuinities which harass women, you should just avoid dicks and douchebags. Am I just in the wrong gaming communities here? Is there a mass of douchebag gamers that would go out of their way to harass women on the internet?
[QUOTE]18. I probably never think about hiding my real life gender online through my gamername, my avatar choice or by muting voice chat out of fear of harassment resulting by my being male.[/QUOTE]
See above.
[QUOTE]19. When I enter an online game, I can be relatively sure I won't be attacked or harassed if and when my gender is made public.[/QUOTE]
See above.
[QUOTE]20. If I am trash talked or verbally berated while playing online it will not be because I'm male, nor will my gender be involved as an insult.[/QUOTE]
See above. (Seriously, we get it.)
[QUOTE]21. While playing online with people I don't know, I won't be interrogated about the size and shape of my real life body parts, nor will I be pressured to sharte intimate details about my sex life for the pleasure of other players.[/QUOTE]
This is the kicker for me. Because no guy has ever had his dick size come into question on a video game, ever. That has never happened. What in the world were they thinking about this one? And isn't it a stereotype that [b]men[/b] are more prone to interrogation, harassment, and peer pressure regarding their sex lives?
[QUOTE]22. Complete strangers generally do not send me unsolicited images of their genitalia or demand to see me naked on the basis of being a male gamer.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, this has happened to me. Yet again we marginalize the gay community, because why not - everyone's for women's rights, but gay rights are still a conflicted issue, so we can totally get away with it.
[QUOTE]23. In multiplayer games, I can be pretty sure the conversations between other players will not focus on speculation about my attractiveness or sexual availability in real life.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they probably don't for women, either. Let's keep marginalizing everyone else.
[QUOTE]24. If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing.[/QUOTE]
Nope.
[QUOTE]25. Because it was created by a straight white man, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.[/QUOTE]
See above.
My stance on this whole thing is that of seeing someone get bullied.
Like, someone could see someone being actually genuinely harassed (and not claiming that GamerGate is killed their dog or something) and accept that person as a person fully, but not speak up because they don't want to get drawn into an argument in which they too will get verbally abused.
this video sucks
no seriously I even agree with some of the points in it and it still sucks
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46624236]List of "these are wrong" statements[/QUOTE]
Also yeah, a lot on this list imply that people on the internet aren't assholes. Being a woman is just like being fat, anorexic, having a high-pitched voice, doing this sh*t in text chat, being gay, liking My Little Pony, being a furry, having a neckbeard, wearing a fedora, wearing a gasmask, being 14 and saying "nigga" in every sentence over your mic, being a F2P in TF2, not knowing how to play a heavily team-based game and joining a match where everyone would expect you to know at least the basics of the game, etc. The only difference is that most of these, people wont know about it until you tell them or it becomes extremely obvious.
There will be no special treatment for women until I can go into a game of CS and also not get bitched at for not being able to clutch a 1v2. Not because I'm a straight white male with privledge, but because gamers being jackasses isn't a woman-exclusive problem and it's going to take them at least fully accepting those they already supposedly accept before they treat those they supposedly don't accept like royalty.
[quote]6. I can look at practically any gaming website, show or magazine and see the voices of people who have my own gender widely represented[/quote]
this is literally the case with everyone so what
if u cover your ears and screech really loud, the sexism goes away
[QUOTE=meppers;46623152]can someone be nice enough to write down all 25 reasons so we don't give them views?
the best way to make this crap go away is to ignore it[/QUOTE]
The entire list is a blatant rehash of an article he wrote several months ago.
[url]https://archive.today/JOWLC[/url]
Literally every gender, race, whatever gets harassed on the internet. No one is excluded
[QUOTE=Doom14;46623734]Maybe it's because people are tired of being blamed for the benefits of being the majority, which is a really poor way to address the negative issues minorities deal with. It's literally a way of saying "Ha ha it's your fault for being you" instead of "treat these other people with respect you would wish to have."[/QUOTE]
I don't see how stating that females are more likely to be harassed due to their gender is the same thing as shaming all men.
I went to Gamestop Friday night to check out any deals. I just happened to be at the mall anyway and figured I might get lucky and score a PC game on clearance. It was actually pretty cool. There were some girls, mostly guys of course, but there were enough to be holding several different conversations in the checkout line or in front of the Nintendo shelf. A female employee saw me looking at a pre-owned copy of Demon Souls and struck up a conversation about the series. It was just a really nice atmosphere that lacked any feeling of the gender based division that seems to be constantly coming up these days.
This is an anecdote that isn't meant to say gamers are universally accepting people, or that this video is entirely wrong, or that women never have to deal with bullshit. I just felt like sharing it because for once I was surrounded by people who played video games, cared about video games, that weren't anonymous text pixels or computerized voices. I think anonymity contributes a lot to the frequency with which we see assholes on the internet, whether they be sexist assholes, cheating assholes, team killing assholes, etc.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46624236]
[QUOTE]13. When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked or assumed to be buying it for a wife, daughter, or girlfriend.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and when I order the XL pizza with extra cheese, chances are I will not be asked or assumed to be sharing it with everyone else in the apartment (nobody). Honestly, god forbid people have opinions and assumptions of you. That would be awful.[/QUOTE]
Relevant to the above anecdote: A girl in front of me bought Elder Scrolls Online. The male employee who rung her up asked her if she played Elder Scrolls before. They then started talking about how Oblivion had the best environments but they still like Skyrim's gameplay.
It's one of those things that might happen but honestly I've never seen it.
This video made me fart
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
but i wont tell you if it was in a good or bad way
I agree with the fact that women are often bullied in the gaming scene. But I can't grasp a solution to this beyond "spreading awareness". There isn't legal action we can take against bullies playing call of duty. I really do wish to see an end to online bullying but what the hell can i do about it?
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;46623078]Why is it the responsibility of women to "ignore" sexist jerks instead of the rest of society telling those jerks they should fuck off and reform their views? This stupid defeatist attitude is why this problem exists in the first place.[/QUOTE]
because people are assholes online regardless? its not a black and white thing, people are assholes to people. Just because they shit like gamer gurl or make me a sandwich, it doesnt change the core reason of doing it. I get called faggot/loser/douchebag/dickhead/ect when playing, and its not solely a gender thing.
Shit, women in the industry have already said they were never really harassed and were treated equally. Its just most don't enter the industry because other fields are more appealing to them, and i don't mean by assault.
[url]http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html[/url]
these are just versions of this.
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
also this isn't violence specific to video games. this just reflects the fact that sexism exists in real life and video games are part of real life so no duh video games reflect that?..
For a second I really thought this video was satire, but then I saw it was made by FF. I think I may be slipping into a coma caused by the shear stupidity of the words spoken. Tell my family I love them.
[QUOTE=Avvy;46623066]cool, I guess this video and the whole feminist movement within gaming must be pointless then.[/QUOTE]
Here's the thing; there's literally nothing stopping a majority female studio from appearing and making content that panders to their gender.
There doesn't need to be a movement to change video games, if enough women ACTUALLY cared enough, they would be much better represented (because they'd have their own content, designed for them, by them). This current movement is just fucking dumb, it's taking stuff that lots of people genuinely like and watering it down so that everyone can take the same catch-all package.
Want change? Go make it yourself. It's like complaining that someone's making blue sweaters because you like red.
there used to be annoying girls that spammed "omg the cake is a lie XD"; now they've evolved into femfreq.
[QUOTE=Flameon;46625303][url]http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html[/url]
these are just versions of this.
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
also this isn't violence specific to video games. this just reflects the fact that sexism exists in real life and video games are part of real life so no duh video games reflect that?..[/QUOTE]
Pretty much everything in that list is unadulterated bullshit
A lot of it is just stating that yes, the majority race in America is white, while another large portion of it is just falsification flat out.
While the whole "Priviliged CIS male" garbage is incredibly stupid, not only because it's a huge generalization, but also because males are also massively affected by sexism and gender-roles, I fully understand atleast some of their points.
Some people in this thread obviously haven't even watched the video, as they immediately jumped on the "muh' precies vidye gems" thing, which the video isn't even about. It's more about some people's terrible behaviour in said (online) games.
Some have already pointed out that you need to learn that assholes will exist, especially when completely anonymous, and that the best solution is to simply ignore them. I agree to some extent.
However, I'd also say that there's a difference between a random person going "Oh my god *yourusernamehere* you fucking suck at this like really how fucking stupid are you go kill yourself"
And, as an example, this situation:
Random black guy decides to play GenericShooter543½, and due to genetics, he's gotten a deeper voice than most white guys. The moment he enables voicechat, he's instantly overwhelmed by people saying things like "Ohmygod you fucking nigger go back to the cotton fields/the jungle this is no place for you you half-monkey scumbag"
(I'll assume that you'll be able to see why one scenario is significantly worse than the other)
Just a couple of hours ago, I actually experienced such behaviour myself, as I was playing CS:GO with a couple of friends.
One of my friends we could call 'Amar' was with us in the first game. Amar and his family immigrated from Saudi Arabia to Sweden roughly four years ago, and while he speaks Swedish perfectly, he does so with a 'middle-eastern' accent.
As you or may not know, during the initial 'Warmup' period of a competetive game, the voicechannel is shared between both teams. Amar said something along the lines of "Prepare to get dominated", and poof, the channel was instantly flooded by racist remarks from the opposing (CT) team.
You know, shit such as "Go back to Iraq and blow yourself up or something", "fuck off you stupid sandnigger" "fucking muslim", etc. etc., one of them even went flatout nazi by saying "You do know why the Swedish flag consists of a yellow cross on a blue background, right? A Christian faith, blue eyes and blonde hair, in other words, get the fuck out"
After the first round, our team was in the lead, and Amar was at the top of the scoreboard, the comment he/we got then was "No wonder you did so good as T when you've got an actual terrorist on your team"
We won the game, and Amar was still at the top; "stop living off of welfare playing CS all day and get a job you piece of shi-"
He wasn't hurt, as he's heard the same shit being said to him many times before, and we simply laughed about how fucking retarded people can be, and that there was a much bigger chance that they were the actual ones actively munching off of the welfare system.
Of course it's not like he's constantly under verbal harassment as soon as he uses his voice in the game, but from my experience, I'd say that there's a ~30% chance that during the next game, the opposing team will have atleast one racist moron nagging on him.
Anyway, Amar then left to study, and one of my other friends invited his girlfriend to take Amar's place.
The warmup period started, and as it generally is when she uses voice, sexist and downright creepy shit begin flowing. "A girl? GG guys wouldn't it have been better with a bot instead", "Get back to the kitchen you whore", "Make me a sandwich" "Do you like it up the ass?", etc. etc.
I'd say that stuff like this are being said during ~60% of the games she's in.
Shit such as sexism and racism shouldn't be accepted anywhere, and I think most people can agree that any online-experience would be massively improved if more people simply began acting like mature and friendly adults.
Generalizing and blaming things such as ~the gamer culture~ or Internet anonymity for the existence of such people is also irrational and stupid. It's kind of like trying to blame roads for accidents involving drunk drivers. The source of the problem is what should be fixed, and it's somewhere else completely.
[QUOTE=Col. Mandrake;46625254]I agree with the fact that women are often bullied in the gaming scene. But I can't grasp a solution to this beyond "spreading awareness". There isn't legal action we can take against bullies playing call of duty. I really do wish to see an end to online bullying but what the hell can i do about it?[/QUOTE]
The solution is find another community
There are tons of gaming communities, the non-community is one too (and it's pretty caustic)
If you don't like X group, make another group. X group has 0 power over you unless you give it to them.
McIntosh wrote the original article at Polygon somewhere, I can't find it though.
[editline]2nd December 2014[/editline]
The video isn't outright false for claiming that it happens to female gamers, but it constantly happens to children and minorities too. I've hung in XBL circles though.
[QUOTE=Korova;46623090]Of course a woman's voice is going to stand out and is going to receive harassment. No amount of social justice will change that. No law will change that. No moderation will change that. It sucks but it's just the way it is.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, this a perfect example of how you should confront a problem. Stare at it for 10 seconds, conclude "meh, it's fucked", and then never think about it again
[QUOTE=Wowza!;46625018]I don't see how stating that females are more likely to be harassed due to their gender is the same thing as shaming all men.[/QUOTE]
That's not the case though. There are actual problems to handle, but instead, they have to go "Oh, well as the majority, YOU don't have to DEAL with THESE EVENTS*" Which is how this video is presented. Which is the entire trump card of "privilege." It doesn't work, or at least I've never seen it work, outside of an echo chamber. There are better ways to handle the case and rally people towards your side, I feel like playing the privilege card just alienates people further. That goes for any case too, not just sexism.
[sp]*as often[/sp]
daily reminder anita's videos are written by a straight white man
who claims video games shouldn't be fun and that men like video games because it gives them control
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
I also did like almost all of them looks like the standard progressive games journalist
glasses, plaid, white glasses
the kind of guy I'd hope to see nodding respectfully
[QUOTE=Doom14;46625448]That's not the case though. There are actual problems to handle, but instead, they have to go "Oh, well as the majority, YOU don't have to DEAL with THESE EVENTS*" Which is how this video is presented. Which is the entire trump card of "privilege." It doesn't work, or at least I've never seen it work, outside of an echo chamber. There are better ways to handle the case and rally people towards your side, I feel like playing the privilege card just alienates people further. That goes for any case too, not just sexism.
[sp]*as often[/sp][/QUOTE]
I just don't see how saying "Look! This group you don't belong to faces more difficulties than the group you belong to!" will necessarily alienate or antagonize people.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46622963]Why would you apply for a field that you feel that you'll be constantly harassed in?
People need to stop just passing the buck on to women and try to figure out what they can do to actually bring them into the field. What sort of message are we sending when any sort of feminist critique comes out and you've got all these chuckleheads coming out of the woodwork to say WOW HOW FUCKING STUPID IS THIS SHIT RIGHT GUYS????
do you think that sort of atmosphere is in any way shape or form conducive to bringing in a group of people?[/QUOTE]
I work in the industry, and you're talking completely out of your ass. People whom harass or even intimate about intimidation based on gender, race or any other difference at AAA companies will rather swiftly find themselves on their ass without a job. This mythical behavior "pervading" game creation happens very very very rarely, and the last person I know whom did it was out of a job within two hours.
You probably need do some research before basing your opinion on facts that don't exist.
Gaming online certainly has many issues, making games online does not, because no publisher or developer worth a damn will put up with it, period, fullstop, and it's why everyone knows people like Wu and Alexander are full of shit.
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