[QUOTE=Rixxz2;46625405]Yes, this a perfect example of how you should confront a problem. Stare at it for 10 seconds, conclude "meh, it's fucked", and then never think about it again[/QUOTE]
Misdiagnosing the problem also isn't a great way to confront it, either.
The root problem is that gamers - as well as the internet as a whole - enjoy a sense of anonymity so they can afford to be assholes. It doesn't mean they are all sexist - it just means they are all assholes. The true human nature comes out and they are dicks to everyone.
I mean, good luck changing that, but there are definitely more important, more easily fixable problems out there.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;46623375]That gaming cred point is wrong though. If you're bad at a game, people will shit talk you over anything. Race, religion, [B]gender[/B], age, country, city, and pretty much anything else.[/QUOTE]
"When you are beat with a stick, do not mistake the choice of stick for the reason behind the beating".
I read this in a writeup like a month and a half back and it's a really neat quote.
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;46625405]Yes, this a perfect example of how you should confront a problem. Stare at it for 10 seconds, conclude "meh, it's fucked", and then never think about it again[/QUOTE]
Please tell me in what way I could work to prevent a woman from being called a cunt by an angry Russian during a game of Dota 2.
If you have any ideas on how to stop Brazillian bloggers from making burner accounts and sending death threats to people, I'm all ears.
Or, more importantly, if you could solve the problem of 14 year old Canadians calling SWAT teams to the homes of Twitch streamers, that would be great. Because that's an actual crime, and yet no one seems to have managed to find out a way to stop it as of yet.
I'm willing to discuss any topic, but I have every reason to believe harassment is ultimately inseparable from free communication. If the only argument you have that it isn't is "you're a defeatist", then surely you can understand why I'm not rethinking my position.
Jonathan and his feminist frequency series overall is a display of a toxic form of rights activism if it truly was for anyone's rights.
Really it goes into lacking objective criticism if it were to be about games critique and a lack of focus if it were to go for the discussion of sexism.
Any form of sexism involved with a game itself would be more on the focus of personal views and going more into points that are more about topics of writing, structure of characters, or world development.
If it was going to be about sexism and human rights then it would be better to pull off media to the focus of modern human rights in vaious areas of the world.
Plus this really desecrates the view of real human rights activism.
It feels like child's play to consider sexism in media compared to human rights violations in developing areas of the world.
I've noticed Anita and crew (or the "Idiot Brigade" as I like to call them) very much like to latch onto random things some shitheads did on the internet. They don't seem to realize there's shit people in any community and most of the time its people who are a lot like school bullies. Very insecure or bigoted that try to ruin the days of people they don't like.
I mean just yesterday I was playing a fun little gimmick mode in Dota 2. There was this guy who was insanely rude by doing the stereotypical "you're worthless, kill yourself" line for not being a great player. This isn't an isolated thing either. I've seen people say shit like "I can tell you're a nigger by the way you play" because some people are just dickheads because what happened in their life. (Which btw, they shouldn't be faultless. A good person realizes not everyone in a group is bad and won't let a few fringe cases turn them into a despicable person)
[QUOTE=Protocol7;46623463]There may be typos, I transcribed straight into Notepad.[/QUOTE]
As a white male, I've run into at least a few those.
Aren't rules invalidated by exceptions?
[editline]2nd December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46623557]okay i'm not really going to target your other points in your 3-4 posts here because i've seen them a thousand times, but i really gotta single this one out
zoe quinn aside because the allegations haven't been proven to be true or false yet, are you seriously brushing aside harassment because the women aren't REAL devs (whatever the fuck that means), or aren't REAL big figureheads in the game industry?
also that belittling comment towards hepler, isn't that [I]exactly[/I] what's happening now with the other women you brushed aside? freaky teenagers and young adults sending shit towards somebody
because they tweeted X or developed Y or are a popular Z meme? why is she different from the rest, also why are you using that terrible nickname while simultaneously trying to be sympathetic towards her?[/QUOTE]
Factually speaking, Quinn, Wu, and Dina as far as the industry(Not the indie scene) are concerned, they aren't figures or figureheads. Also, he didn't brush aside harassment.
You also should really know it's incredibly intellectually dishonest to yourself, not us, me, or anyone else, to think you can just dismiss any intelligent arguments like the ones he laid out there as if them simply having been brushed off before is a good enough excuse.
This whole fucking thread.
Fuck you all.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46623405]
no one is more "privileged" than you about anything, people are pretty much the same, some of us look different and think different, but one isnt above the other. [/QUOTE]
Am I misreading this or do you actually believe this?
i feel like a venn diagram of "people who get angry at the mention of privilege" and "people who actually understand privilege" would be two circles
People have called me so many different things in games, but I have never been insulted for being a man. It's so uncommon it's a not an issue compared to the harassment women get.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46626349]
I'm willing to discuss any topic, but I have every reason to believe harassment is ultimately inseparable from free communication. If the only argument you have that it isn't is "you're a defeatist", then surely you can understand why I'm not rethinking my position.[/QUOTE]
My post was a reaction to the fact that he said "X person is different, so of course he/she will be harassed. Nothing to do about that."
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46626761]People have called me so many different things in games, but I have never been insulted for being a man. It's so uncommon it's a not an issue compared to the harassment women get.[/QUOTE]
SURELY you've been called a [B][U]woman[/U][/B] in some derogative sense?
Well there you go: that's even worse. Girl-Gamers have no idea how well off they really are.
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46626761]People have called me so many different things in games, but I have never been insulted for being a man. It's so uncommon it's a not an issue compared to the harassment women get.[/QUOTE]
They'll find another way to insult you though. Also its not a video game issue either. The issue is the what happened to make them a hateful person in the first place.
In that example maybe the harasser had a father who objectified the mother, or simply they just hate woman because every girl they've talked to didn't like them. (I was like that once when I was young)
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;46626773]My post was a reaction to the fact that he said "X person is different, so of course he/she will be harassed. Nothing to do about that."[/QUOTE]
But there isn't anything to do about it. You can't stop people from being assholes. You can ignore them, you can go around them, but you can't make them stop being what they are. That really just is the nature of open communication.
Again, I'm all ears if you want to start pitching solutions. I've yet to hear any, but I'm always open.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;46626025]
The root problem is that gamers - as well as the internet as a whole - enjoy a sense of anonymity so they can afford to be assholes. It doesn't mean they are all sexist - it just means they are all assholes. [/QUOTE]
Of course, some people say stupid shit not because they actually believe in said shit, but because they like being 'Le epic trolls xP'.
But I'm fairly certain that a lot of people who are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. online, do actually hold opinions and views like that, and the Internet allows them to ventilate without fearing any consequences.
I suppose it's kind of like certain people when they become drunk, sure, some idiots say retarded shit because they want to fight. But have you never gone to a pub with someone you met very recently, and who seems pretty alright, only for them to turn into a racist and homophobic dickbag once some alcohol has entered their system, as it makes them "brave" enough to reveal their actual opinions that have been stored up inside them
This "White Male Privilege" bullshit makes me laugh. Parasites like Sarkeesian do more harm than good for female gamers/game devs. If I were a woman who had the hopes of entering the industry, shit like this would put me off the idea rather than making it seem more enticing, kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy really. If there's actually such a major problem to be solved here, why not combat it with positive notions, tell us of the success stories of women in gaming? Or would that not be controversial, or borderline insane enough for these shitbirds to get their youtube views and patreon donations?
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;46626820]Of course, some people say stupid shit not because they actually believe in said shit, but because they like being 'Le epic trolls xP'.
But I'm fairly certain that a lot of people who are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. online, do actually hold opinions and views like that, and the Internet allows them to ventilate without fearing any consequences.
I suppose it's kind of like certain people when they become drunk, sure, some idiots say retarded shit because they want to fight. But have you never gone to a pub with someone you met very recently, and who seems pretty alright, only for them to turn into a racist and homophobic dickbag once some alcohol has entered their system, as it makes them "brave" enough to reveal their actual opinions that have been stored up inside them[/QUOTE]
I think it's important to note that people do not become racists when they start saying racist things. They always were racists, you just didn't know.
Even if you somehow stopped people from saying racist things, that would not reduce the number of racists in the world. You just wouldn't know who they were. Something to keep in mind.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46626849]I think it's important to note that people do not become racists when they start saying racist things. They always were racists, you just didn't know.
Even if you somehow stopped people from saying racist things, that would not reduce the number of racists in the world. You just wouldn't know who they were.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and that's exactly what my point was?
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;46626820]Of course, some people say stupid shit not because they actually believe in said shit, but because they like being 'Le epic trolls xP'.
But I'm fairly certain that a lot of people who are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. online, do actually hold opinions and views like that, and the Internet allows them to ventilate without fearing any consequences.
I suppose it's kind of like certain people when they become drunk, sure, some idiots say retarded shit because they want to fight. But have you never gone to a pub with someone you met very recently, and who seems pretty alright, only for them to turn into a racist and homophobic dickbag once some alcohol has entered their system, as it makes them "brave" enough to reveal their actual opinions that have been stored up inside them[/QUOTE]
I completely disagree, the vast majority of people who say offensive things do it to get a rise out of people and they do so indiscriminately. This kind of hostile environment exists even when there is no diversity among participants and there certainly isn't a massive jump in abuse when their supposed object of hatred joins in.
You might get more of an insight into people when their inhibitions are lowered, but it's no more valid to assume that is their true self than any other time. People are complex and saying stupid shit doesn't definitively prove anything one way or the other.
I am a male and i've experienced 21 of these.
It really isn't gender specific.
I might be missing something here, but doesn't claiming that "well it also happens to men" basically single-handedly contradict the whole idea that these are privileges?
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;46626820]But I'm fairly certain that a lot of people who are racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. online, do actually hold opinions and views like that, and the Internet allows them to ventilate without fearing any consequences.[/QUOTE]
oh boy no
saying racist/homophobic/wtf ever words does not make you racist/homophobic/wtf ever
most of these words have just devolved into general insults by now.
for example, if i called you a faggot, it's far more likely that i just hate your shit, than it is me implying you are homosexual and/or that that is a bad thing
same goes for cunt, nigger, dick, bitch, retard, gay, and all variations of these
People are assholes in online games because of the level of anonymity and lack of moderation. People usually insult each other with whatever ammunition they can find. When a minority (racial, sexual, gender, etc.) gets insulted it usually consists of stereotypes because that is the easiest thing to insult them over. Its as simple as that. Males/whites/straight people get insulted just as often, its just that the insults usually don't have to do with a stereotype because that wouldn't be insulting.
If insulting a man because of his gender, or calling white person a "honkey" over VOIP was actually insulting, you would hear it A LOT.
My favourite thing about SJWs/FemFreq is that while discussing privilege, very very very rarely will they ever mention class/economic status, arguably the most powerful factor in how a person gets treated. I wonder why this is??
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46625062]I went to Gamestop Friday night to check out any deals. I just happened to be at the mall anyway and figured I might get lucky and score a PC game on clearance. It was actually pretty cool. There were some girls, mostly guys of course, but there were enough to be holding several different conversations in the checkout line or in front of the Nintendo shelf. A female employee saw me looking at a pre-owned copy of Demon Souls and struck up a conversation about the series. It was just a really nice atmosphere that lacked any feeling of the gender based division that seems to be constantly coming up these days.
This is an anecdote that isn't meant to say gamers are universally accepting people, or that this video is entirely wrong, or that women never have to deal with bullshit. I just felt like sharing it because for once I was surrounded by people who played video games, cared about video games, that weren't anonymous text pixels or computerized voices. I think anonymity contributes a lot to the frequency with which we see assholes on the internet, whether they be sexist assholes, cheating assholes, team killing assholes, etc.[/QUOTE]
I've had similar experiences going out meeting people with shared interests, mainly programming and game dev related groups on meetup.com. Once you're in person everything is different and much more friendly.
I've co-owned a decently sized gmod community once trying my best to make it equal for players and admins. However this community was not competitive and if anything evolved more around creating art. From my personal experience the biggest issue was teenagers picking on younger teenagers and children, especially children if they used mics and their voice hadn't gone through puberty. It's easy to just blame all teenagers but there are always exceptions, so you need to judge people individually. (It's also something you end up trying to explain over and over to other admins which can get tiring.)
There were plenty of females in this community and I don't recall anyone getting harassed. (again it was a non competitive community if that matters) Some of them were actually incredibly good at creating things and received a lot of well deserved praise for it.
After 5-6 years I left because it felt like I was getting too old and unable to relate with the majority of the community. I think the average age was 16 and I'm, 24 now. Most people play for about a year then they move on to study or whatever and then younger people start playing again.
[QUOTE=Luafox;46627568]They've always been for every one of her new videos, I dont see how that's a surprise at all?[/QUOTE]
I don't know about you, but the way he said that seemed to indicate that it wasn't a surprise.
All I know about female gaming is that WoW is a fucking goldmine.
[QUOTE=elowin;46627423]oh boy no
saying racist/homophobic/wtf ever words does not make you racist/homophobic/wtf ever
[/QUOTE]
To use my previous post; so if someone calls my (previously saudi-arabian) friend a "Sandnigger muslim who should go the fuck back to Iraq and blow himself up", they probably have no racist intents, and are just a bit upset??
I'm fairly certain that's not at all what you mean, and you're simply taking my posts out of context (which is my fault, as I should a have a thicker red line between my posts)
[QUOTE=Rixxz2;46627855]To use my previous post; so if someone calls my (previously saudi-arabian) friend a "Sandnigger muslim who should go the fuck back to Iraq and blow himself up", they probably have no racist intents, and are just a bit upset??
I'm fairly certain that's not at all what you mean, and you're simply taking my posts out of context (which is my fault, as I should a have a thicker red line between my posts)[/QUOTE]
It depends on context, if that person genuinely hates saudi-arabians, then it is racist. But if someone just wants to insult somebody, the easiest thing to do is target an aspect of them that is different. Not because you hate them because of that difference but because you know it will get a reaction. I'm not saying it's alright to use race/gender/sexuality based insults but it isn't always because of prejudice, sometimes the person is just a general asshole. There is a significant difference between insulting someone because of their identity, and using someones identity to insult them.
[QUOTE=Blackfire76;46627255]I am a male and i've experienced 21 of these.
It really isn't gender specific.[/QUOTE]
Because gender is not the reason people get harassed online, it's just an excuse.
If you're young, you get harassed because you are young. If you are old, you get harassed for being old. If you are bad at a game, you get harassed for being bad. If you're good, you get harassed for being better. If you're a girl, you get harassed for being a girl. If you have a different opinion, you get harassed about that.
Anything that makes you different from the person harassing you is a reason for them to harass you. If they don't know anything about you at all, they'll just make something up.
When people can't see each other face to face, they turn into assholes. Guys just learned to not give a shit what some random other guy says on the internet.
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