[QUOTE=V12US;46628176]Because gender is not the reason people get harassed online, it's just an excuse.
If you're young, you get harassed because you are young. If you are old, you get harassed for being old. If you are bad at a game, you get harassed for being bad. If you're good, you get harassed for being better. If you're a girl, you get harassed for being a girl. If you have a different opinion, you get harassed about that.
Anything that makes you different from the person harassing you is a reason for them to harass you. If they don't know anything about you at all, they'll just make something up.
When people can't see each other face to face, they turn into assholes. Guys just learned to not give a shit what some random other guy says on the internet.[/QUOTE]
This. While playing online in my time I've been harassed for a shittonne of stuff, from my tone of voice to my ethnicity, and so on and so forth. yeah you feel kinda bummed out but then you understand people are mean and videogames are such an accessible outlet for them to make someone's day worse.
communities being toxic is the reason I've stopped playing many games, and I'm a white guy in my 20s. To me, it tells more about the levels of general toxicity of online communities than about the alleged presence of sexism driving women away from the medium. It's toxicity that drives [i]anyone who doesn't want to put up with nasty children[/i] away from the medium
[QUOTE=Quq;46626741]i feel like a venn diagram of "people who get angry at the mention of privilege" and "people who actually understand privilege" would be two circles[/QUOTE]
Aren't all venn diagrams two circles?
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
Also I feel like a venn diagram of "privilege that actually matters" and "privilege experienced in a videograme" would be two separate circles.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;46628771]Aren't all venn diagrams two circles?
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
Also I feel like a venn diagram of "privilege that actually matters" and "privilege experienced in a videograme" would be two separate circles.[/QUOTE]
Nope, there can be more than 2 circles in a venn diagram, it is just that 2 circles is the most commonly used.
[QUOTE=.Lain;46623584]
the point is that men relatively practically never get insulted based on their gender in that situation. yet women do far more often given the same circumstances
i never said women should be exempt from any and all criticism or insult; i said that women shouldn't be so often insulted for a particular reason that men are rarely insulted for[/QUOTE]
Insults towards the male sex happens rarely because it's ineffective considering most of the players are male, and by extension most of the insulters are male. So you'd have to be not male to use that as an insult.
Gendered insults are not the problem, a problem is if females get insulted more simply for being female.
But consider also that being female is unusual and interesting to a lot of guys, so they are given more attention, and amount of insults increases proportionally with increased attention.
[QUOTE=Talishmar;46628929]Insults towards the male sex happens rarely because it's ineffective considering most of the players are male, and by extension most of the insulters are male. So you'd have to be not male to use that as an insult.
Gendered insults are not the problem, a problem is if females get insulted more simply for being female.
But consider also that being female is unusual and interesting to a lot of guys, so they are given more attention, and amount of insults increases proportionally with increased attention.[/QUOTE]
I would say it's an SJW sport at the moment to insult men as much as possible. The whole SJW movement seems to be nothing more than an excuse to harass, insult and bully whoever they believe to be the great evil of the moment, which right now is males who play videogames.
[QUOTE=V12US;46629098]I would say it's an SJW sport at the moment to insult men as much as possible. The whole SJW movement seems to be nothing more than an excuse to harass, insult and bully whoever they believe to be the great evil of the moment, which right now is males who play videogames.[/QUOTE]
It's interesting how a group of people who make claims about the negative aspects and influences of another group of people end up being equally or more negative than the people they are targeting.
1- Not only women but just about everyone experience harassment in video games or in the online world. Everyone is either entitled to suck it up because calling each other bad names isn't harassment, or entitled to complain about it if its something much larger than just name calling or whatever flimsy shit passes off as harassment nowadays.
2- Not true. Play games the wrong way online, and you'll get called a "subhuman trashcan sludge mutant that needs to uninstall", regardless of your gender. OR you might be lucky that people go easy on you because you're a girl (if you are a girl). Has happened more than once.
3- Creeps exist, more on the story at 11. And who the hell posts real life information for everyone to see?
4- Yes, you will. You just haven't been playing the "right" games.
5- This is an interesting issue, because lots of women express themselves with the subtleness of a carnival fire.
6- ...what? What does gender even got to do with that? Is this a "this article is too MAN-WRITTEN for me!" complaint?
7- Again, creeps exist.
8- What? Sincerely did not get this one.
9- *oh my god, this guy...* Nobody cares about your gender. If you did bad, you're a noob. End of discussion.
10- *hey look who this guy is lol* Same thing. Nobody cares about your gender. This, and a few other points are starting to be a "special snowflake" type of case where someone throws a few jokes at someone and they are up in tears and gathering up the cavalry because its a woman in distress.
11- Lol yes they will, pretty much everyone tells everyone else their opinions about video games suck, what the fuck
12- *real gamer crap* and no you cannot. People will most likely instantly tell you to play "real hardcore games". And if they do, it doesn't matters what gender you are, its obvious they are either idiots or people who invest all their time (or too much time, depending on reactions and ideas) into a single group of games, and you shouldn't be there because it isn't the right place for anyone who doesnt plays said games.
13- So people don't expect women to play video games... OH NO, WE'RE DOOMED. Don't tell me you also get triggered and assume fetal position.
14- You mean, the same way there are magazines for women and for men? And how the gaming industry, up until a point, was made up of a small portion of women which is now rising to be equal or more? Ok?... And lets not forget, games aren't "gender locked" BTW... Just because you play with "generic guy with dick", doesn't makes you unable to play it FYI...
15- Who the fuck cares rofl, here we go with the power fantasies... God forbid we play games because they are fun, its obviously just so we can stare at male protagonists looking powerful!...
16- Oh no, its a male. End of the world, right here. OH, why didn't the devs severely butcher the story and/or hinder up other aspects of the game just so the main character was a female character to which wouldn't make a single difference...
17- You know, you always have that one block button... It's not like you wont be harassed as a male, and its not like males can and females can't use the block and report button... Food for thought there..
18- Nobody cares about your gender unless you're playing with assholes. And why would you show your gender through your online name? Again, the subtleness of a carnival fire at work there.
19- Same thing, depending on how were you attacked.
20- Hahahahahahahahahahahaah. Special snowflaked to the max there. Theres people literaly calling others scum of the earth and saying "kill yourself and your family" and shit of the sort, and the moment someone talks trash at your based around the fact that you're a woman, the world must stop.
21- Again, creeps.
22- Again.... Creeps.
23- Again......... Creeps. And nobody will care about that if you're playing an high risk game. Advice: either block and report or just outright mute them. Again people, block buttons exist for some reason...
24- No they wont. Not if they are made up of the flimsiest excuses ever, which is why most sexism complaints made by feminists aren't taken serious.
25- It wont. In fact, I take it as an even bigger joke. I just don't take it as a list made by white knights because I'm pretty sure not all of you are.
So, lets get this straight...
Whenever male gamers get harassed and made fun of and taken with just about every shitty action another human being could lay upon them, everybody turns a blind eye and maybe even laughs at them and call it a joke, but suddenly, whenever someone farts a mile away, and a little bit of scent travels to the nose of a female gamer and she sees it as harassment, its an extremely evil thing to do?
Where did that equality you guys asked for hid itself? Did it hide itself under the Special Snowflake cereal box in the counter? This is the equivalent of that bitchy asshole kid you hang out with who beats you up and gets you in trouble the moment you fight back.
I know feminist frequency is a scam and Anita Sarwhateverthefuck is a fraud but, honestly, SOME of these are actually true.
I'm not even going to call these benefits. I'll just say... "points."
Point 1 is actually somewhat true. Before my transition to female I was completely blind to the harassment women get in online games. Since you never have a problem online you pretty much become blind to it. For me it only became apparent once I presented as female online through my voice alone.
Point 2 is just fucking stupid the whole "Boys Only Club" thing stopped back in the early 2000s. People who still grasp onto that clearly need to go outside.
Point 3 is relatively true too. Just me saying, "Hello," in games is enough incentive to have people come at me with either gross sexual comments, straight up being a dick, or stalking me around trying to add me and get me to play with them. What's the crime? Being a woman in an online game.
Point 4... is sorta true. There's instances where I've had people ask me questions like they're testing my knowledge to see if I know truly what I'm talking about. Then they turn around and never do the same thing when they're speaking to a male gamer.
Point 5 and 6 are stupid... next.
Point 7 misses the ball completely as if its to say that only happens in gaming conventions. That happens anywhere.
What the fuck is point 8 even about? Okay the further I watch this video the less I can call these "benefits" as "points." So now I'm going to call them "stupid ass assumptions."
Stupid ass assumption 9 does have some truth to it. Guys will get called out on sucking but women will get called out on sucking just because, "you're a girl."
Isn't stupid ass assumptions 10 just stupid ass assumption 9 with better vocabulary? And Tim Schafer?
I don't even understand stupid ass assumption 11. Sounds like stupid ass assumption 4 but, again, with better vocabulary.
Stupid ass assumption 12... WHAT?
Stupid ass assumption 13 is true... but I wouldn't really call that a benefit. Is it that big of a deal to just say, "No, it's for me?" I mean I totally get it. It's definitely annoying when a Gamestop employee is like, "Oh your boyfriend will love this," or, "Is this for your brother?" But it's not that big of a deal to just correct them. And tbh that barely fucking happens. But I guess the point they're making is that it it shouldn't be "barely" it should be "never."
Stupid ass assumption 14 can go fuck itself. I'm sorry, but to insinuate that these games are made primarily for males (i.e. sexy women and big bosoms) coincidentally forget that there are bisexual and lesbian women who APPRECIATE IT TOO. To claim its only for straight males is heterosexist.
Stupid ass assumption 15 is relatively true but its acting like female protagonists don't exist. Right, I get it. Women protagonists are always sexual and yada yada. But hey, guess what, so are men. Every male character is the embodiment of what "a man is supposed to be." Either he's a very gruff, big mother fucker or a handsome and chiseled hero. That makes a lot of men feel bad too because they don't look like that.
Stupid ass assumptions 16 isn't even a big deal there are plenty of games where the female is a default character too. What, are developers supposed to waste tons of resources reworking a single player story to fit a female protagonist alongside a male one? If the story is geared to be about a male character then putting a female in his place as an option would just be awkward as fuck. Fuck off.
Stupid ass assumption 17 is just a better worded stupid ass assumption 3. I'm noticing a trend here.
Again, stupid ass assumption 18 is just a better phrased 3 and 17. But it is true. Sometimes I get too scared to actually interact with people online. The last time I did some guy was talking about how he was going to find me and rape me in my sleep and shit. It's uncomfortable and sometimes I walk away feel really upset to the point where I'd rather just not interact period.
Okay fuck it 19 is just another extension to 3, 17, and 18 this is getting ridiculous.
Stupid ass assumption is so untrue it hurts. Men get harassed by other men for being lesser men all the time.
Stupid ass assumptions 21 and 22 is relatively true. But at the same time men always get into a dick waiving competitions. Still, its uncomfortable when men ask for nudes of me or ask me personal details I'd rather not give out. And whenever I respectfully decline I end up getting harassed. And the worst part is other people join in like I'm in the wrong and deserve to be bashed. I can't say I've ever had a guy send dick pics online but I'm sure that happens to many female gamers.
Stupid ass assumption 23 is actually really true. Casual conversation between gamers when I'm around usually involves how attractive I am or not or how they want to fuck me. It's uncomfortable because it really is just casual talk to them.
Stupid ass assumption 24... yeah okay. I've never heard of this. If you know what you're talking about they won't care. Even other males jump down each other's throats arguing over stupid shit about games.
Stupid ass assumption 25...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/am6xXuh.gif[/img]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Image macro" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
A feminist frequency thread?
Anita Sarkeesian has shit eyebrows.
Guys I have something to admit:
I am a white cis male born in a first world country. I am a terrible human being and I'm sorry for being born the way I am, please forgive me for being oppressive and misogynistic :'(
[QUOTE=Elstumpo;46627472]My favourite thing about SJWs/FemFreq is that while discussing privilege, very very very rarely will they ever mention class/economic status, arguably the most powerful factor in how a person gets treated. I wonder why this is??[/QUOTE]
i'd say that varies. i'm saying this from personal experience, but in countries like brazil, class/economic status is a lot more important, while in, say, america, race is a really big factor for a lot of people, no matter what
Regardless of all that's been said I really want to know. Do any of you know any single human being that legitimately believes girls should not be allowed to play/design/enjoy videogames? I honestly don't know of anyone.
I fucking love being white :dance:
I'm pretty sure you can catch a lot of flack in games dispite your gender.
However, I'm sure these smug starbucks drinking equality posers haven't played enough actual games to tell.
I'm sorry that I'm a white cis-gendered male, now can I play my games pls?
Seems to be fear mongering rather than being informative.
So instead of someone calling me out and asking how big my breasts are, they say they'll kill my family , skin me alive, say my skills are terrible and I should drop the game. [B]There's a simple thing called not caring what people say online.[/B] So many times I've encountered girls in CS:GO or TF2, people don't seem to care. Especially in competitive games because why should they? They want to win as a team. Most of the "benefits" count for merely nothing or have an answer to them. Doesn't matter what you believe in or what gender you are, there are assholes on the internet and you have to acknowledge it and move on.
So many main characters that are female are powerful, courageous, and brave. If the character is portrayed and written poorly, it will generally be a poorly made character.
If being harassed online (which I've rarely seen in games) block the user. If your being stalked some how secure your privacy settings on social media sites and Steam. Contact Admins about the harassment and it should be dealt with.
Most girls that play video games actually enjoy it. Why would anyone ask you online if you play video games for "real" or just to make yourself known? Nobody cares first of all and second it's obvious to tell if a girl takes her gaming seriously.
The reason your genders face isn't on game shows and magazines is because well, majority of the people are males. I'm sure that if female gamers stepped over and decided to join a team for developer, writer, animator, interviewer, reviewer or whatever they wouldn't be turned down or looked away from just because their gender. If anything they want a more diverse work force.
Anyone else notice how like, 75% of the points made in the video are all saying the same thing: "Women get harassed online" and they just went needlessly specific on what kinds of harassment it is in order to make the list longer.
List should have been called "25 Invisible Benefits of being on the internet while male"
so i went to work at the tribunal and i come back and this thread has exploded wow
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46623405]The concept of privilege is actually racist/sexist in every sense and you need to stop believing it the way these fuckheads use it. Its putting someone else above someone else in every sense of the word, the anti-thesis of fucking equality. As long as it continues to be used, someone else is always going to be better than someone else, and using it as a tool to make others be quiet, or feel bad, or gain an edge, is absolutely horrid in any form of progress socially.
What you are actually thinking of is the basic fucking concept of compassion, not privilege, no one is more "privileged" than you about anything, people are pretty much the same, some of us look different and think different, but one isnt above the other. Whenever privliege is used its to always paint one in a better light, and the other in a shit light. But thats ALL it does, it doesnt progress past that. Spouting this buzzword around has become nothing but a tool, its not progressing anything, its always used to out someone, or justify something else. [/quote]
privilege is not about painting one group as better than the other. that is a value judgment that only fools add to the concept. few proper academics do it, some pop-feminists do it, and the primary group that adds that value? the people that scholars and activists are trying to reach out to. if you would like an example of something in concrete history, read Sokol's "I just lost my everything: white southerners in the age of civil rights." It's not a feminist book, it's not a racism book, it's about social norms and how expectations of various social groups impacted white southerners and led to their frustration with the civil rights movement. it shows a perfect analogy to what many men are experiencing now in the current waves of feminist critique.
[quote]Also, that gamestop shit, no its totally not, where is your info coming from? Are you serious? Men and Women can shop fine in fucking gamestores without having to worry about anything, like holy shit it has never been an issue. Do you not realize how many fucking women probably go to video game stores over men? [B]All those moms, older sisters? [/B] Really dude how can you agree with that shit?[/quote]
"[B]all those moms, older sisters[/B]"
...
you just played into the point they made in the video. i can't even put it any better. like you just said exactly what they said was the problem.
[quote]Its like you painted this world in your head that isnt real but are like "Yeah this is how it is because ive heard about women getting harrassed a bunch online"[/quote]
i've seen it. i worked as a researcher for violence against womens law enforcement as well. i know that it exists, and i've seen it personally both on and offline. to claim that it doesn't exist is simply silly.
[quote]Dude how many women have you even heard getting praise? I never see fucking ANY news on ANY female devs from ANY FUCKING company ever. I see plenty of male ones, never women, its very rare. But dont worry, a women twists her ankle, or gets called a cunt over twitter and the industry is in defcon 10.
I could hit the wrong creep in dota and have my entire team call me a cunt, and thats happened a few times actually. I have been threatend to death, family to death, house burned down. Someone gonna beat me up, rob my house, shoot my dog, call me a faggot, etc...
This shit can be daily depending on the game, its fucking little kids and teens with a few just invalid adults thrown in.[/quote]
once again. just as i pointed out to the poor guy who got stalked - there is a critical difference between being harassed for your skill level (which is something that has happened in every game to both sex) - it is something else to be harassed for your sex. it is no better or worse, only different.
[quote]So the game industry is making a big ass stir over a few select women, seriously lets think of the women harassed recently.
Anita, not a dev
Zoe Quinn, pretty much not a dev at all
Brianna Wu, 1 shitty ios game, not really a dev
Dina, not a dev
Hamburger Helper from Bioware is the ONLY women I can think of that you could say was driven out, which was a shame because it was kids and teens doing it once again and select assholes getting all crazy over her just for the sake of it.
So we have 4 women who are not devs or important really to the industry, and 1 who was legitimate.
All this female hate drama shit is coming from fucking kids and teens spewing bullshit on twitter and in games, the same fucking shit thats been going on all around the internet.
Why dont these journalists or "Game feminists" EVER focus on women IN the industry more? Why so much attention to these assholes who thrive off attention?(clickbait is why, controversy sells, like this controversial video in this thread)[/quote]
sexual harassment in the workplace throughout the EU ([url=http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/shworkpl.pdf]I work for the UN, so I cite their documents[/url]) hits about 40% depending on methodology. The most conservative methodologies hit 30% and the most liberal wide encompassing definitions hit 50%. if you can make a case for me that the gaming industry - an industry that has significantly fewer women than many other industries - has a statistically significant difference from these rates, i'll listen to it. but I doubt that you can do so successfully, speaking frankly. there's too much research (done by, yknow, actual surveyors that get responses from women directly and also investigate established cases of sexual harassment that are pushed through official channels) that shows that [B]harassment of women is endemic even in the most liberal of fields.[/B]
[quote]Instead of praising Bayonetta being designed by a women who made it into a triple A studio making a successful iconic character, SHE INSTEAD GETS CALLED A FUCK TOY FOR BOYS BY ANITA(lesbians dont exist) AND POLYGON KNOCKED POINTS OFF BECAUSE OF HER SEXUAL LOOK.
Wow, id love to be a women, work my ass off, create a loved character and a loved women character that so many care for, only to see it get shitted on the same people that are so "Progressive" for women.
Its always something negative when a women is involved for these people trying to put women in a positive light.
I cannot believe you fall for this crap.[/QUOTE]
i have no comment in regards to bayonetta. i have not played it so I can make no judgment to the character of the protagonist.
i just want to take a brief moment at the end of this post to reiterate that you - in your criticism of this video - put into your post one of the direct issues that they were tackling. there is a privilege that male gamers enjoy that the second they walk into a store, it is not presumed that they're purchasing for a family member or friend. [B]you just posted that the women that enter game stores are "mothers, sisters".[/B] I feel that this is critical to point out. I do not do so in any sort of ethical judgment, it is merely there to show you that mode of thinking is there, in your mind. This is the mode of thinking these people are tackling and want to change.
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
to lay my cards on the table i'd like to take a brief second to just share something: i've been in a lot of these feminist threads and in several of them i've mentioned that I have been a victim of sexual assault. this happened after my interest in the field began, many years after. it just happens to have happened to me.
what i have not mentioned previously is the person who did it is the type of person that would commonly be labelled a "SJW" by many people on forums like this. indeed she was a pretty seriously involved individual in various womens groups around campus.
the reason I bring this up is to show that there are many people out there that wear the feminist hat - but in my experience, the most extreme ones - the ones that people would label "SJW"s often only parrot what they've heard from others, and do not take the time to thoroughly examine these issues. They are first and foremost activists, not academics. Activism is fine, but it creates a certain frame of mind that allows you to create a "holier than thou" attitude. the problem with this loops back to the first part of that post.
For every person that exists like this, people need to understand that they are creating caricatures of fully fleshed academic concepts. All of these things that get filtered into "feminist" videos are things that have been developed for decades, boiled down into a bulletpoint so that someone can try to appeal to a mass market instead of academics.
rape culture is real. the problem with it is that it's never explained thoroughly enough because it's too complex of an issue to explain with just a few paragraphs or minutes - it's something that requires a lot of dedicated time to studying to fully understand.
i hope instead of simply reading my post and going "whatever fucking feminazi" posters here will instead take the time to read and actually mull over what i say. I do this for all posts that come to me, and this has developed an ebb and flow of criticism for pop-feminists in my own mind.
I hate the way this was written/produced. [b]"Let's drive our point home by being passive aggressive!"[/b]
Who's bright idea was it to make a list of issues females face in gaming and then have them all turned into benefits for males? It makes it [I]soooo fucking hard[/I] to figure out what they are actually criticizing.
For instance: "I don't have to worry about eating peanut-butter sandwiches because I am not allergic to peanuts." [I][U]does not automatically translate to[/U][/I] "That other person over there is allergic to peanuts."
I swear this was written by an intellectually handicapped person.
Apart from that, I can't say that any of the points that were made were necessarily wrong, but they were all very very generalized.
Honestly, if saw or heard people being inappropriate like that to women while playing a game, I would find it to be disrespectful and maybe even say something. But the fact is I have [i]never[/i] seen a woman be harassed in a game because of her gender. I really can't think of even one time. Maybe I just don't play games that very many female gamers play. (BF3-4, Planetside 2, CoD occasionally)
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46623405]The concept of privilege is actually racist/sexist in every sense and you need to stop believing it the way these fuckheads use it. Its putting someone else above someone else in every sense of the word, the anti-thesis of fucking equality. As long as it continues to be used, someone else is always going to be better than someone else, and using it as a tool to make others be quiet, or feel bad, or gain an edge, is absolutely horrid in any form of progress socially.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand the concept of privilege.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;46633686]I don't think you understand the concept of privilege.[/QUOTE]
Regardless, he has a fair point - groups like these promoting equality tend to do exactly the opposite.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46632102]so i went to work at the tribunal and i come back and this thread has exploded wow
privilege is not about painting one group as better than the other. that is a value judgment that only fools add to the concept. few proper academics do it, some pop-feminists do it, and the primary group that adds that value? the people that scholars and activists are trying to reach out to. if you would like an example of something in concrete history, read Sokol's "I just lost my everything: white southerners in the age of civil rights." It's not a feminist book, it's not a racism book, it's about social norms and how expectations of various social groups impacted white southerners and led to their frustration with the civil rights movement. it shows a perfect analogy to what many men are experiencing now in the current waves of feminist critique.
"[B]all those moms, older sisters[/B]"
...
you just played into the point they made in the video. i can't even put it any better. like you just said exactly what they said was the problem.
i've seen it. i worked as a researcher for violence against womens law enforcement as well. i know that it exists, and i've seen it personally both on and offline. to claim that it doesn't exist is simply silly.
once again. just as i pointed out to the poor guy who got stalked - there is a critical difference between being harassed for your skill level (which is something that has happened in every game to both sex) - it is something else to be harassed for your sex. it is no better or worse, only different.
sexual harassment in the workplace throughout the EU ([url=http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/shworkpl.pdf]I work for the UN, so I cite their documents[/url]) hits about 40% depending on methodology. The most conservative methodologies hit 30% and the most liberal wide encompassing definitions hit 50%. if you can make a case for me that the gaming industry - an industry that has significantly fewer women than many other industries - has a statistically significant difference from these rates, i'll listen to it. but I doubt that you can do so successfully, speaking frankly. there's too much research (done by, yknow, actual surveyors that get responses from women directly and also investigate established cases of sexual harassment that are pushed through official channels) that shows that [B]harassment of women is endemic even in the most liberal of fields.[/B]
i have no comment in regards to bayonetta. i have not played it so I can make no judgment to the character of the protagonist.
i just want to take a brief moment at the end of this post to reiterate that you - in your criticism of this video - put into your post one of the direct issues that they were tackling. there is a privilege that male gamers enjoy that the second they walk into a store, it is not presumed that they're purchasing for a family member or friend. [B]you just posted that the women that enter game stores are "mothers, sisters".[/B] I feel that this is critical to point out. I do not do so in any sort of ethical judgment, it is merely there to show you that mode of thinking is there, in your mind. This is the mode of thinking these people are tackling and want to change.
[editline]3rd December 2014[/editline]
to lay my cards on the table i'd like to take a brief second to just share something: i've been in a lot of these feminist threads and in several of them i've mentioned that I have been a victim of sexual assault. this happened after my interest in the field began, many years after. it just happens to have happened to me.
what i have not mentioned previously is the person who did it is the type of person that would commonly be labelled a "SJW" by many people on forums like this. indeed she was a pretty seriously involved individual in various womens groups around campus.
the reason I bring this up is to show that there are many people out there that wear the feminist hat - but in my experience, the most extreme ones - the ones that people would label "SJW"s often only parrot what they've heard from others, and do not take the time to thoroughly examine these issues. They are first and foremost activists, not academics. Activism is fine, but it creates a certain frame of mind that allows you to create a "holier than thou" attitude. the problem with this loops back to the first part of that post.
For every person that exists like this, people need to understand that they are creating caricatures of fully fleshed academic concepts. All of these things that get filtered into "feminist" videos are things that have been developed for decades, boiled down into a bulletpoint so that someone can try to appeal to a mass market instead of academics.
rape culture is real. the problem with it is that it's never explained thoroughly enough because it's too complex of an issue to explain with just a few paragraphs or minutes - it's something that requires a lot of dedicated time to studying to fully understand.
i hope instead of simply reading my post and going "whatever fucking feminazi" posters here will instead take the time to read and actually mull over what i say. I do this for all posts that come to me, and this has developed an ebb and flow of criticism for pop-feminists in my own mind.[/QUOTE]
You bring up EU women harrassment, but not in the game industry, which is what im talking about.
When I say mothers or sisters im being realistic, a lot of moms buy kids games, ive seen more moms in gamestores than anyone else honestly. I regretabbly had a shitty gamestop job for a year a while ago and the majority were women WITH THERE KIDS/BROTHER.
Its just extremely common, its not an issue at all, i didnt assume all women in gamestop fit those things and arent gamers, its just I saw an absolute fuckload of moms/sisters buying games for a younger sibling, far more over dads/brothers.
More women are gonna shop at a store like Nordstroms or a JC Penny over men? Is their a problem with that? What is the fucking issue of their being a majority of moms buy games for their sons/daughters at a gamestop? Is their a single problem that this shit naturally just happened?
If you really wanna tackle such an issue you need to realize it doesnt even come close to starting with the game industry, it instead has to deal with the issue of "Women=Kid caregivers" "Men=Moneymakers" and all that jazz. Which is a big reason I get mad at femfreq, because THEY ARE NOT IN IT TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, they are in it to just stir shit.
Trust me, id fucking LOVE for a competent, women in the game industry to come out and start laying down the law. Anita and femfreq ARE NOT THAT, which is why I said for someone like you who clearly really gives a major fuck about this type of stuff that you should find someone else aside from them.
Plus, you also need to remember the fact Moms tend to be a lot more supportive and caring of their children, and honestly I think this is fair to say. They would be the ones to take their kid out and buy them something thats gonna make them happy and shit.
Guess what? 0 problems ever happened with any women in the store in the entire year.
Once again you put words in my mouth, you instantly painted this world in your head that I am somehow ignoring harassment and that somehow I claimed it didnt exist?
Dont give me blanket statistics of EU work harassment when im focusing on the game industry harassment of women, something you didnt provide.
And finally, it sucks you were sexually assaulted, no one deserves shit like that ever, and im glad you can see through that feminist hat since it sounds like that person was just behind a shield that did horrible shit to you, but Anita and shit are like that on a less extreme and traumatic level. Instead they appeal to said people you just brought up which is why im so against them. Trust me im a feminist, or probably more of a humanist. They dont help progress and instead use a movement and issues as a means for money instead of progress.
Actual feminism does not, and while modern feminism in at least a lot of first world countries has kind of become less serious(as in women dont need to fight for basic bullshit like voting but instead focus on more social norm issues) I still think it has a very valid place in both society, and in gaming. Hell I cannot wait for an actual smart feminist to come into gaming and help out the e-sport scene for women, the scene where gender/biology dont matter at all when it comes to skill.
Antitas shit and most gaming "feminism" is so lazily done, I think thats the most offensive part.
I honestly believe the majority would accept this type of shit more if it wasnt being "lead" by a fucking idiot like Anita.
It really comes down to my insane love and respect for artistic and creative freedom which makes me hate femfreq so much, because my whole thing is any artist/dev has the right and freedom to make whatever they want and sell it without needing for massive controversy of wanting to censor it or want to not even exist.
You can condemn any game you want for any reason, that is everyones right, you can hate and shit all over whatever the fuck you want. But to want to disallow this shit, like femfreq pushes making it seem like its inhearently evil/sexist/misognoistc, is nothing but fucking lazy bullshit to stir shit and undermine real issues that involve that.
Not a single game Anita has ever used as an example in a single femfreq video has been sexist or misogynistic.
These people make women seem like special snowflakes, where as most people realize thats not the case.
Both men and women get made fun of because of gender, the size of my dick has changed well over 100 times. My virginity and fatness always in question, my house tends to seem under the threat of being blown up all the time for some reason as well.
These issues they focus on are far bigger and more complex than anything in gaming, this is why the majority of people get so fucking mad at how horrible and bullshit femfreq is. Its not that they are "feminists" its that they completely undermine real feminists and shit all over gaming.
[editline]4th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=xxncxx;46633686]I don't think you understand the concept of privilege.[/QUOTE]
I do, too bad its lost its meaning more than the word faggot has which is saying something.
Its instead now used as a tool to shut someone down or up.
Its making it so 1 side is painted above another, painting another as unequal, but the issue is thats where it ends, no one goes past that point. Privilege is inequality, so how does that fight equality when we need to remind people all the time to check their privilege because of the fucking way they were born?
Holy shit. This is the worst mustache I've ever seen.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qqTWqSo.png[/IMG]
It's like it's just begging to be shaven.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46632102]so i went to work at the tribunal and i come back and this thread has exploded wow
~
~
[/QUOTE]
That was exactly your intent, wasn't it?
a female gamer has 12 year old boys saying they'll put their balls in her mouth, whereas a male gamer has 12 year old boys saying they'll put their balls in his mother's mouth
it's not that different
[QUOTE=hydrated;46634406]a female gamer has 12 year old boys saying they'll put their balls in her mouth, whereas a male gamer has 12 year old boys saying they'll put their balls in his mother's mouth
it's not that different[/QUOTE]
Well some people have actually had other people force their balls into their mouths... So they have to talk about how it's not right. It isn't right. We need to deal with this issue head-on.
[QUOTE=ghosevil;46634488]Well some people have actually had other people force their balls into their mouths... So they have to talk about how it's not right. It isn't right. We need to deal with this issue head-on.[/QUOTE]
Even that 12 year old knows it's not right to force your balls in someone's mouth. There's no point in a conversation about how bad things are bad and by focusing on what is said rather than that they are being abusive you're completely missing the issue rather than dealing with it head on.
[QUOTE=Pvt Anderson;46634287]Holy shit. This is the worst mustache I've ever seen.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qqTWqSo.png[/IMG]
It's like it's just begging to be shaven.[/QUOTE]
I thought that was a joke and it was a girl in a costume with a fake mustache :v:
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46632102]so i went to work at the tribunal and i come back and this thread has exploded wow...[/QUOTE]
Huge respect for bringing some common sense and proper debate level to this thread. On Facepunch, discussing in favour of feminism is worse than supporting Putin.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46634102]You bring up EU women harrassment, but not in the game industry, which is what im talking about...[/QUOTE]
It is impossible to take your posts seriously when every third word is fuck or shit and every argument boils down to you calling someone or something stupid with zero reasoning.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46634102]Dont give me blanket statistics of EU work harassment when im focusing on the game industry harassment of women, something you didnt provide.
[/QUOTE]
Is is laughable that you chew him out for citing relevant statistics from a credible source, when your own sources are nothing but anecdoctal work experience.
You were offered to prove that the cited statistics are not relevant, but your reply implies that you didn't understand or read these statistics anyway.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;46632102]
These issues they focus on are far bigger and more complex than anything in gaming, this is why the majority of people get so fucking mad at how horrible and bullshit femfreq is. Its not that they are "feminists" its that they completely undermine real feminists and shit all over gaming.
[/QUOTE]
That the roots of gender issues go deeper than gaming(no shit) means that Feminist Frequency is "horrible and bullshit" and that they "completely undermine real feminists and shit all over gaming." ? I would like to hear you elaborate on that.
Is spreading awareness of sexual harassment at workplaces also "horrible and bullshit" because workplaces aren't the root cause?
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