• Can't draw? This is just an illusion.
    89 replies, posted
[QUOTE=FFStudios;49414700]this looks like a terrible way to learn how to draw and will make about as much sense to someone who doesn't think they can draw as trying to explain how to fix a car engine to someone illiterate in car mechanics. "attach nose, chin, ears" - yeah, because that is so simple and easy that anyone can do it! you're literally trying to teach people to draw by telling them "just fuckin draw it dude, come on"[/QUOTE] It's teaching a workflow method on angling. Many people have trouble drawing faces at angles because when they draw that circle, they can only imagine the face as facing them. This basically just says to draw a "+" where you want the face to be centered then you draw around that. It's not going to teach you how to draw noses or eyes, and even if it did, people would probably get pissy because it's only teaching you how to draw in a specific style instead of teaching theory and fundamentals.
“Talent is a pursued interest. Anything that you're willing to practice, you can do.” - Bob Ross I've been drawing all my life and I still absolutely hate everything I create.. but that's just kinda what happens when it comes to skills in the first place. Most people tend to be very self-critical.
[QUOTE=KenjiKusanagi;49413961][video=youtube;7TXEZ4tP06c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TXEZ4tP06c[/video] A very interesting presentation. Grab a paper, pen and watch this video to prove yourself you can.[/QUOTE] This guy's nice, innocent smile and peaceful voice really make me happy
[QUOTE=Thlis;49414912]Yeah, because you tend to have to learn things to draw things. I am really at a loss and all I can say is buck up read a book or watch a video and study. I mean what, all those squiggly lines are obviously just artists around the world having a laugh? [video=youtube;1EPNYWeEf1U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPNYWeEf1U[/video][/QUOTE] I think the dissatisfaction comes from a lack of clear communication as to what people actually want. In like 95 percent of anything about how to draw that I've seen, the (usually really awful at teaching) teacher fails to explain things from the perspective of someone who doesn't know anything. Often they give very vague advice or very complicated advice that isn't very helpful because the person watching is still lost on where to begin. They don't take in to account what a person wants to accomplish nor do they help a person find what they want to accomplish beyond being 'good at art'. Before you can start learning you need to learn how to learn, what you want to learn, and you need to learn how you can improve. 'Practice' is not good advice. Here's the kind of practical advice that helps me more than mysterious or way too complicated bullshit; Learn what it is you want to do. All art has a style, and yours will too. Before you start drawing, look at art, and think about what artists and styles inspire you. Do you like old cartoons from the 40s, do you like the way that one person on tumblr doodles their art, or is there some digital painter that you really like. [t]http://illusion.scene360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/monica-lee-08.jpg[/t] This is far from everyone's goal Next, learn their methods, and learn their shortcuts through referencing. Reference all the time. That's something that was not made clear at all when I first started. Look at drawings as being made up of parts rather than being some vague whole that you don't know where to begin with. Dissect drawings you like and figure out the parts that make them up. Take mouths. [url=http://cubesona.tumblr.com/post/121738953487/art-question-how-do-you-go-about-drawing-mouths]Looking at and referencing this thing here made it so much easier for me to draw mouths.[/url] Because it's simple, easy to understand, practical advice. Sometimes the best way to show someone how to draw lips is to teach them to 'do this'. You don't learn to sing by just singing, a teacher teaches you fundamentals and methods of practice before practice. Before I begin training to sing, I learn what a singing warm up is, I learn why it's helpful, why it's necessary, what specifically it does, and then what warm ups to do. Before I sing a note I learn how to shape my mouth for a note. I don't start at singing and I don't start at warm ups. I start at learning the foundation of how to learn. It's really not that hard to give advice like this, tons of fields do it. Artists in particular just seem to have a lot of really fucking awful and unhelpful teachers and start at square 3 or 5 or 15 or jump in between them skipping shit instead of starting at square one.
I'm gonna reiterate this point made by many others just to hammer it home. The point of this video isn't to teach you how to draw. The video is about breaking down the "I can't do it" attitude. I think the Dwarf Fortress thread (and most content-heavy threads) would go beyond amazing if we had more people doing little doodles like this without caring how professional it looks
I followed along in Paint. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fvoMx3G.png[/IMG] It's a bit derpy but I'm quite happy with it compared to how I used to draw.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49415324] Learn what it is you want to do. All art has a style, and yours will too. Before you start drawing, look at art, and think about what artists and styles inspire you. Do you like old cartoons from the 40s, do you like the way that one person on tumblr doodles their art, or is there some digital painter that you really like.[/QUOTE] This is patently wrong. One of the most important things is first learning the fundamentals of drawing form, perspective, shading, gesture. Then you move on to style. You don't have to be a master draftsman before you can draw stylized but you must know the basics of the fundamentals before drawing effectively. Style is where you bend and sometimes break the rules, first you need to know what the rules are. When you draw a head be it realistic or stylized the fundamentals are ever present if you know the fundamentals, and it is quite clear when you don't have the fundamentals. [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49415324] [t]http://illusion.scene360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/monica-lee-08.jpg[/t] This is far from everyone's goal Next, learn their methods, and learn their shortcuts through referencing. Reference all the time. That's something that was not made clear at all when I first started. Look at drawings as being made up of parts rather than being some vague whole that you don't know where to begin with. Dissect drawings you like and figure out the parts that make them up. Take mouths. [URL="http://cubesona.tumblr.com/post/121738953487/art-question-how-do-you-go-about-drawing-mouths"]Looking at and referencing this thing here made it so much easier for me to draw mouths.[/URL] Because it's simple, easy to understand, practical advice. Sometimes the best way to show someone how to draw lips is to teach them to 'do this'. You don't learn to sing by just singing, a teacher teaches you fundamentals and methods of practice before practice. Before I begin training to sing, I learn what a singing warm up is, I learn why it's helpful, why it's necessary, what specifically it does, and then what warm ups to do. Before I sing a note I learn how to shape my mouth for a note. I don't start at singing and I don't start at warm ups. I start at learning the foundation of how to learn. It's really not that hard to give advice like this, tons of fields do it. Artists in particular just seem to have a lot of really fucking awful and unhelpful teachers and start at square 3 or 5 or 15 or jump in between them skipping shit instead of starting at square one.[/QUOTE] Have you actually looked at fun with a pencil. It contains some of the most simple explanations of form, rivaling that of what you linked. Hell Proko has pretty much adapted it entirely to video format now. [QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;49415486]Aside from not having a clue about anything you're talking about you made a sweeping judgment on the source material. Loomis goes through every part of getting to that level so it's not just "draw the fucking owl" B^)[/QUOTE] I wouldn't really bother at this point. They just want to post "funny" memes rather than understand or help other people learn to draw.
[QUOTE=Scot;49414777][IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/75/4a/1d/754a1def902e9d60cbd631184106d883.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Aside from not having a clue about anything you're talking about you made a sweeping judgment on the source material. Loomis goes through every part of getting to that level so it's not just "draw the fucking owl" B^)
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49414392]A lot of people have motor skill shit that prevents them from doing anything with a pen and paper. Like Dysgraphia and such, not being able to draw isn't just an "illusion". If I can't legibly write my own name, I won't be able to draw with a pen and paper.[/QUOTE] i have dysgraphia aint stoppin me trying to learn how to draw (despite me being terrible currently, there is a major improvement if you see my first attempts compared to now) edit: pretty much glad though that i was raised on a computer since i was very young so the problems dont show up as bad on computer. i think its probably the reason why i keep editing my posts though after i post because i keep leaving stuff out. i remember my keyboard teacher telling me my keyboard form is complete shit but i type as fast as everyone else so she didn't bother trying to make me learn the usual method.
[QUOTE=Thlis;49415484]This is patently wrong. One of the most important things is first learning the fundamentals of drawing form, perspective, shading, gesture. Then you move on to style. You don't have to be a master draftsman before you can draw stylized but you must know the basics of the fundamentals before drawing effectively. Style is where you bend and sometimes break the rules, first you need to know what the rules are.[/QUOTE] tbh everyone get's to have explore an art form in whatever way they want, some musicians start out with knowing nothing about how to properly play an instrument and turn out to be complete "geniuses" I know learning fundamentals then style is usually key to most, but it's not a rule to follow at all that always applies imo though I feel like we might be discussing two different things/aspects
As someone who recently got into drawing, Bob Ross was the one who got me to try my hand at it. I haven't taken a thing from his technique, aside from his bright outlook. 90 percent of my work is in the "Draw the cutest character you can" thread. I draw a shitty sketch, and refine it until it looks decidedly less shitty. I haven't looked up "how to draw" or anything, and I can't remember a damn thing from my grade school art classes. For me, it's all about what's in my head, and less about what is on the canvas at that particular moment.
[QUOTE=Jund;49414944]so, so wrong. this is exactly the kind of thinking that keeps people away from getting into simple drawing by elevating it into some sort of elitist tradecraft this misses the entire point of the video by a mile[/QUOTE] Recommending that people actually take the time to learn something keeps people away from learning it? Or is it suggesting that it actually requires a modicum of effort? Please, tell me what's elitist about "learn how to draw properly if you want to draw properly."
[QUOTE=woolio1;49415710]Recommending that people actually take the time to learn something keeps people away from learning it? Or is it suggesting that it actually requires a modicum of effort? Please, tell me what's elitist about "learn how to draw properly if you want to draw properly."[/QUOTE] the point isn't to teach people to draw, it's to tell people who say they "can't draw" that they actually can your saying that drawing requires "learning how to draw properly" is what turns many people away from drawing in the first place. it essentially tells them that if they don't want to learn how to draw, then they can't draw. at all.
this discussion shouldn't even be about drawing. the video teaches people an abstract idea that saying "i can't do x" is an illusion. he just used drawing as one example.
The reason i can't draw is because i can't imagine things well, nor look at the much bigger picture, and i'm not creative enough. Also i really have trouble with scales in my drawings as well.
[QUOTE=Octopod;49415789]this discussion shouldn't even be about drawing. the video teaches people an abstract idea that saying "i can't do x" is an illusion. he just used drawing as one example.[/QUOTE] A title and video that includes drawing will invariably attract people that are interested in drawing. [QUOTE=Atlascore;49415817]This attitude of yours is exactly why so many people have defeatist outlooks on a lot of things in life and won't even try them once. Demanding that people "[B]learn how to do x [I]properly[/I]"[/B] is a lot more negative than you think, you're essentially saying tha[B]t if you aren't willing to put in the effort to learn how to do things like a professional you aren't worth shit [/B]and shouldn't even try, that attitude is exactly why so many people refuse to do a lot of things in life.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say you aren't worth shit, I would say you need to study harder. What are we supposed to just ignore hardwork because that might offend someone?
[QUOTE=Octopod;49415764]the point isn't to teach people to draw, it's to tell people who say they "can't draw" that they actually can your saying that drawing requires "learning how to draw properly" is what turns many people away from drawing in the first place. it essentially tells them that [B]if they don't want to learn how to draw, then they can't draw.[/B] at all.[/QUOTE] I feel like that should be self evident. If I don't want to learn how to knit a blanket, or build a house, or design a car, then I can't do those things because I don't have the skillset that allows me to do them. I can doodle little houses or cars or blankets, but you can't go from absolute zero to anything respectable without practice. At best, this is teaching people that they can draw in the margins. And that's perfectly fine, and it's definitely a way to break that mental barrier that they can't draw, but it's not teaching someone to draw. If you want to draw, you'll still have to seek out the information that this video lacks. Nobody's going to look at this and become the next Picasso or Rembrandt. At the end of the day, people are still going to have to put effort into something if they want to do it. I don't think it's fair to anyone to tell them that they can do something if they're not willing to try, and learn, and improve. You're just setting them up for failure later on.
[QUOTE=woolio1;49414411]This feels Bob Ross-y in a bad way, I think. The problem with people like this, and Bob Ross, is that they have their own personal styles, and they teach people those styles. You're not learning to draw, you're learning to recreate. Most of these people never deviate, or grow outside of their own artistic views, and they're teaching a group of people how to do the same thing. It produces stagnant, samey drawings. Which, I suppose, is great if you're just wanting to do some little notebook doodles or paint a glorified color by numbers, but terrible if you want to progress artistically. While it's significantly harder, you'd be better off reading up on art theory and practicing the standard techniques, getting a feel for what works for you, and then creating your own style rather than piggybacking off of someone else's, be they Bob Ross or this cartoonist.[/QUOTE] The video is much more about the act of trying something instead of believing you can't do it innately, it just uses a basic technique because it gets the point across in 15 minutes. If you tried to get an audience or a group of old people to follow Loomis you'd end up discouraging them because a 15-minute exercise from zero will never look acceptable to them, they as outsiders have a set standard for what a good figure drawing looks like, and anything they come up with will look like arse in comparison. Gratification works wonders for encouragement. From there, you've got a group of people who could understand the meaning of the exercise but not go further than that, people who could feel compelled to research those glorious 'traditional methods' and have more of a reason to try and work through them, or just be happy doodling friends' faces and knowing they've acquired an easy skill. Of course the drawings are samey, they're basic cartoons with a set style. Even then the basic shapes can be modified or moved around to create different faces. I went ahead and doodled the guy while he was talking and it turned out "better" than any Loomis intro i've slogged through.
[QUOTE=woolio1;49415824]I feel like that should be self evident. If I don't want to learn how to knit a blanket, or build a house, or design a car, then I can't do those things because I don't have the skillset that allows me to do them. I can doodle little houses or cars or blankets, but you can't go from absolute zero to anything respectable without practice. At best, this is teaching people that they can draw in the margins. And that's perfectly fine, and it's definitely a way to break that mental barrier that they can't draw, but it's not teaching someone to draw. If you want to draw, you'll still have to seek out the information that this video lacks. Nobody's going to look at this and become the next Picasso or Rembrandt. At the end of the day, people are still going to have to put effort into something if they want to do it.[/QUOTE] that's all fair, if you want to improve then you should learn drawing techniques and such but i feel like you and many other people are critiquing this video as a drawing tutorial rather than what it actually is
[QUOTE=latin_geek;49415838]If you tried to get an audience or a group of old people to follow Loomis you'd end up discouraging them because a 15-minute exercise from zero will never look acceptable to them, they as outsiders have a set standard for what a good figure drawing looks like, and anything they come up with will look like arse in comparison. Gratification works wonders for encouragement.[/QUOTE] If someone is so easily dissuaded from drawing by having their first result from square zero not be good then what exactly is their character? There are very few things that you can get right on the first try in anything. Perhaps instead an emphasis on trying and practice in order to get a result is more important.
[QUOTE=Thlis;49415875]If someone is so easily dissuaded from drawing by having their first result from square zero not be good then what exactly is their character?[/QUOTE] i don't know but that's the case for many people who say they can't draw ask someone to do something they're not a natural at chances are they just give up on it and never look back
I don't practice drawing because I find it to be hard as fuck, also because it feels like a chore and it pisses me off This is why I stick to music.
[QUOTE=Octopod;49415899]i don't know but that's the case for many people who say they can't draw ask someone to do something they're not a natural at chances are they just give up on it and never look back[/QUOTE] Do you expect anyone is a natural at anything? That everyone just instantly had a click for things? There is importance in perseverance in studying and I am surprised that this isn't apparent.
[QUOTE=Wii60;49415499]i have dysgraphia aint stoppin me trying to learn how to draw (despite me being terrible currently, there is a major improvement if you see my first attempts compared to now) edit: pretty much glad though that i was raised on a computer since i was very young so the problems dont show up as bad on computer. i think its probably the reason why i keep editing my posts though after i post because i keep leaving stuff out. i remember my keyboard teacher telling me my keyboard form is complete shit but i type as fast as everyone else so she didn't bother trying to make me learn the usual method.[/QUOTE] I have dysgraphia as well. That's why I said what I said. Takes me 20 seconds to legibly print my own name. Not everyone can do everything. It's not just an "illusion". You wouldn't tell someone with down syndrome to do advanced calculus, or someone with autism to be the life of the party. Do you get what I'm trying to say here?
[QUOTE=woolio1;49415710]Recommending that people actually take the time to learn something keeps people away from learning it? Or is it suggesting that it actually requires a modicum of effort? Please, tell me what's elitist about "learn how to draw properly if you want to draw properly."[/QUOTE] he's going against what people think when they say that they can't draw it's like when people say they can't cook. of course they can cook, if you can throw something on top of a fire then you can cook. but there is a difference between being able to cook and being able to cook [I]well[/I], being able to cook something that is appealing and tastes good, something that has your own creative flair and unique flavors and style. the latter requires effort, practice, and refinement, and that's what differentiates people who can cook (practically everyone) from chefs, and the same thing for people who can draw from artists he's not saying that everyone is an artist, he's saying that everyone can draw. and if they realize that the [I]can[/I] draw, they'll be more open to improving on what they [I]can[/I] do [editline]29th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=woolio1;49414411]You're not learning to draw, you're learning to recreate.[/quote] drawing is the art of recreating, whether it be real life, someone else's style, visual attractiveness, flow, or emotions even the classical masters copied their teachers' styles when they were young so what if some people are okay with being able to doodle in the margins? not everyone who draws has to try to be the next michelangelo
The thing that bugs me about some artsy types, is this weird "Anyone can draw! You just gotta practice" attitude shit they always say. I say that I don't draw, people say well of course you can draw, just put the time in! Here's a thought, what if I have no interest in drawing? "No no no, you're holding yourself back, of course you can draw!" But I don't really want to. So leave me alone, please. Just like how I have no real interest in horse riding or you have no interest in video games. It's just not something that appeals to me. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you anyone can cook if you don't want to learn.
[QUOTE=Thlis;49415963]Do you expect anyone is a natural at anything? That everyone just instantly had a click for things? There is importance in perseverance in studying and I am surprised that this isn't apparent.[/QUOTE] no, i don't. I'm just saying that's the case. the video targets those people who gave up on drawing and believe they can't draw [editline]29th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;49416031]The thing that bugs me about some artsy types, is this weird "Anyone can draw! You just gotta practice" attitude shit they always say. I say that I don't draw, people say well of course you can draw, just put the time in! Here's a thought, what if I have no interest in drawing? "No no no, you're holding yourself back, of course you can draw!" But I don't really want to. So leave me alone, please. Just like how I have no real interest in horse riding or you have no interest in video games. It's just not something that appeals to me. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you anyone can cook if you don't want to learn.[/QUOTE] what the hell? screw whoever does that to anyone
[img]https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10583928_10206827125931122_3882356555515660162_n.jpg?oh=c5b6e2d8a1d3dcdd12661316e7653c15&oe=5701A670[/img] I think I did ok
[QUOTE=FFStudios;49414700]this looks like a terrible way to learn how to draw and will make about as much sense to someone who doesn't think they can draw as trying to explain how to fix a car engine to someone illiterate in car mechanics. "attach nose, chin, ears" - yeah, because that is so simple and easy that anyone can do it! you're literally trying to teach people to draw by telling them "just fuckin draw it dude, come on"[/QUOTE] Thats not really where it teaches you to draw. Like the man in the video, that section is just showing you that its not that hard to do. The book starts off amazingly simple because it assumes from the beginning you have zero experience.
In many respects following his example is similar to just using tracing paper. It's removing the guidelines / trainign wheels that people struggle with. I myself like to draw but I'm better with landscapes and objects such as cars and tanks, architecture hell I'm alright drawing humans too but my ability falls down when it comes to faces and iv'e never really got better. Cartoon faces I'm fine with, anime, western i got them down to a T but it's realistic faces that I'm not too good at. Hasn't stopped me trying though and i will crack it, one day.
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