[QUOTE=hexpunK;44074068]If they're delusional, and keep trying to convince others that they are right. They are a problem. That's why we challenge them.[/QUOTE]
Well, when you say delusional, I think of people like, say, Westboro, so I'm not that worried.
But then again, there could be a christian counterpart of The Amazing Atheist, and have a bunch of 15 year olds following him... oh shit, that's a fucking [I]scary[/I] thought.
[QUOTE=Blazedol;44074102]Well, when you say delusional, I think of people like, say, Westboro, so I'm not that worried.
But then again, there could be a christian counterpart of The Amazing Atheist, and have a bunch of 15 year olds following him... oh shit, that's a fucking [I]scary[/I] thought.[/QUOTE]
Oh god...I wonder if they'd have a banana incident too.
But this is a great place for challenging them, if you're lucky you might hit home with them, if you don't you have a chance of getting the attention of their audience. Promoting critical thinking skills over blind faith isn't particularly harmful after all.
[QUOTE=KlaseR;44071820]Agnosticism doesn't even make sense, it's basically just another word for atheism because saying you're agnostic implies not believing in any god.[/QUOTE]
I'd contend that saying "I don't know," is the only reasonable course. Of course, this does mean that the agnostic person does not hold any active belief about there being a god, but there's a difference between saying "I don't know if there is a god," and "I believe that there is no god." All agnostics are atheists, not all atheists are agnostics. (Just as not all atheists believe that there is no god.)
Most agnostics are actually agnostic atheists, I consider myself one.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism[/url]
I believe that even though there's a possibility there could be a god, there's also am equal possibility for just about anything imaginable, so it's not worth any more consideration than the existence of unicorns or Smurfs.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44074795]I believe that even though there's a possibility there could be a god, there's also am equal possibility for just about anything imaginable, so it's not worth any more consideration than the existence of unicorns or Smurfs.[/QUOTE]
The Smurfs aren't real? :suicide:
If Man was made in God's image and Man is the result of evolution then wouldn't that make God so grand and amazing that his very image is just everything in the world?
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44072854]Agnostic = Doesn't believe in any religions but doesn't deny the possibility of a god existing.[/QUOTE]
No, that's irreligion. Agnosticism is when you refuse to even entertain the idea that god can - not has, but can, be proven or disproven - It's also a term that atheists use when they're afraid of being persecuted, which is what half of FP has been doing ever since the *tips fedora* meme leaked into here.
I'd rather people talked about their belief or lack there of in terms of a scale.
1 Absolute conviction god exists
2
3
4 Complete uncertainty
5
6
7 Absolute conviction god doesn't exist
I'm a 6.
Makes it a lot clearer how strongly you believe things. 1's and 7's aren't even worth the time.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44075496]I'd rather people talked about their belief or lack there of in terms of a scale.
1 Absolute conviction god exists
2
3
4 Complete uncertainty
5
6
7 Absolute conviction god doesn't exist
I'm a 6.
Makes it a lot clearer how strongly you believe things. 1's and 7's aren't even worth the time.[/QUOTE]
What about when I absolutely know for sure that the god of certain religions are not true but am not sure about the actual concept of god?
[QUOTE=Matrix374;44075510]What about when I absolutely know for sure that the god of certain religions are not true but am not sure about the actual concept of god?[/QUOTE]
Again, irreligion. Atheism and irreligion are two separate concepts that just happen to be together frequently.
[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;44071979]I tend to refer to myself as agnostic because I feel like sometimes 'atheist' has connotations to those really obnoxious militant atheist "hahaha look at all these dumbo christian sheeple" types[/QUOTE]
that's pretty weak
i don't like associating myself with a lot of christians(sometimes they're just so stupid or obnoxious i can't stand being around them too long(a lot of them have this crusader complex too)) but i still tell everyone that i am infact a christian
don't hide what you are because you're afraid of being grouped
An agnostic is someone who claims they don't know; or it is not possible to know.
Is it really that fucking hard for you guys?
[QUOTE=Nillor;44054557]I hate how she's being so sure about everything, and making fun of the other people, even though, they sorta started it, and are being awkwardly silly (darwin had tried god plenty).
Science is kanon, but that doesn't really prove that there isn't a god. What if god just created the world, and then observed without interacting?
We can't really be sure about anything anytime soon, so discussing religion is silly.
[sp]Agnostic 4 lyfe[/sp][sp]or until the creator/creators show themselves[/sp][/QUOTE]
A lot of what you said has much in common with [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution"]theistic evolution[/URL] (no, not implying you believe in it, because that would be supremely arrogant on my part). While I don't believe it myself It's nowhere near as unbelievable as, say, the Young Earth creationism.
Tools of communication that is primarily religious was to be used as metaphors to explain and not to be taken literally, this does not prove or disprove god exists.
Science uses Tools of communication that is primarily logical that is used in literal terms and cannot be taken metaphorically, this does not prove or disprove god exists.
Fuck off with this debate guys it's just going to get everyone riled for absolutely no fucking reason.
No matter the proof or disproof of Science and Religion we cannot prove or disprove god exists.
there is no way to prove the existence of god nor disprove it, sure, but when you think of how hypocritical the stereotypical christian god is i dont know why people would idolize him in the first place
[QUOTE=Doomish;44076104]there is no way to prove the existence of god nor disprove it, sure, but when you think of how hypocritical the stereotypical christian god is[B] i dont know why people would idolize him in the first place[/B][/QUOTE]
Because he's popular.Nobody out of 7billion people on earth now belive in gods such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalmoxis"]zalmoxis[/URL] even if he was quite popular in one part of the world,at a given time in history, but who is to say he's not the truthfull heir to the throne of gods, the one and only?You can't prove it or disproove it right?
The same can be said about the christian god, wich became popular among the jewish people some thousands of years ago.But was unheard of in other places untill 6th century or so when the romans thought it wouldnt be that bad to capitalise on that religion.Having all of your empire's citizens believing in one god, and having the pope in rome seems quite beneficiary to the Roman empire don't you think?Nobody in their right minds would strike a blow, or revolt against a man who waw put on throne personally by the god in wich you belive and wich you fear.
It would seem that in order to be a successfull empire you needed to have your own religion.The persian empire had zoroastrianism, ancient greece had the olympian gods,ancient egypt had the cult of personality of the pharaohs(what you would have had in communist regimes wich banned religion)
Well, any god meets his demise after the group of people who believed in him get their culture mixed up with others (such as the roman one in the case of the getae people of the lower danube).
I guess they thought that the christian god was way cooler, because you get to live in heaven forever after you die and whatot.
[QUOTE=Doomish;44076104]there is no way to prove the existence of god nor disprove it, sure, but when you think of how hypocritical the stereotypical christian god is i dont know why people would idolize him in the first place[/QUOTE]
Which is why I'm an agnostic atheist, essentially you can't disprove the idea of a god (probably because the concept was designed that way so you can't disprove the religion otherwise religions would fucking die very easily) however there is no reasonable evidence to assume there is one.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;44078540]Which is why I'm an agnostic atheist, essentially you can't disprove the idea of a god (probably because the concept was designed that way so you can't disprove the religion otherwise religions would fucking die very easily) however there is no reasonable evidence to assume there is one.[/QUOTE]
Sure you can dismantle religion.By learning about it objectively.
About 16% of the world population (1.1 billion people) are estimated to be nonreligious.
Critical thinking, from a scientific and historical POV makes it die off radically and quickly in the nordic countries,UK,FR,CZE and others.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44075496]I'd rather people talked about their belief or lack there of in terms of a scale.
1 Absolute conviction god exists
2
3
4 Complete uncertainty
5
6
7 Absolute conviction god doesn't exist
I'm a 6.
Makes it a lot clearer how strongly you believe things. 1's and 7's aren't even worth the time.[/QUOTE]
Tbh saying that you're agnostic is a lot simpler than replying "I'm at 5.5 on the Dawkins scale" when asked about your beliefs.
i've given up on the entire debate when i realized that, whether real or not, the existence of a deity of some sort doesn't really make that much of a difference on my life.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44079889]i've given up on the entire debate when i realized that, whether real or not, the existence of a deity of some sort doesn't really make that much of a difference on my life.[/QUOTE]
mah nigga
when i started studying life without the present of a god for stuff to rely on him, i understood a lot of the world i wasnt aware of.
But really arguing about it doesn't make any difference. People are naturally strong in their conviction and what they believe in ethereally is like one of the hardest things to change. The only way you can make a non-religious person be religious or vice versa is if they change their mind themselves.
[editline]28th February 2014[/editline]
Especially if it's something so uncertain that it isn't physically possible for anyone to [I]ever[/I] know which side is correct for sure. Religion is one of those things.
[IMG]http://puu.sh/7idES/7a423dc680.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Nillor;44054557]I hate how she's being so sure about everything, and making fun of the other people, even though, they sorta started it, and are being awkwardly silly (darwin had tried god plenty).
Science is kanon, but that doesn't really prove that there isn't a god. What if god just created the world, and then observed without interacting?
We can't really be sure about anything anytime soon, so discussing religion is silly.
[sp]Agnostic 4 lyfe[/sp][sp]or until the creator/creators show themselves[/sp][/QUOTE]
So I'll assume you're also agnostic about leprechauns, goblins, dragons, the Tooth Fairy, etc. I mean, they're all magical and undetectable and you can't prove that they [B]don't[/B] exist. So you have to just be agnostic about them.
Do you see the problem with this type of thinking? Saying you're "agnostic" about ludicrous and totally unlikely things just because they [B]could[/B] technically be true destroys the concept of certainty. How do you know that you're actually looking at a computer right now and not some magical creature disguised to work as a computer? How do you know that I'm not actually a mystical witch on planet Neptune typing this post? You can't 100% disprove these things. But to say "I can't say for sure one way or the other that you're NOT a witch on Neptune" is ridiculous and meaningless.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44079889]i've given up on the entire debate when i realized that, whether real or not, the existence of a deity of some sort doesn't really make that much of a difference on my life.[/QUOTE]
The existence of a magical person who can influence events in your life based on his own whims and judgements wouldn't affect you life? And lack of belief in this deity will result in you being tortured forever. It seems to me that the existence of a deity would be the most significant thing ever in a person's life if it was real.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44120044]So I'll assume you're also agnostic about leprechauns, goblins, dragons, the Tooth Fairy, etc. I mean, they're all magical and undetectable and you can't prove that they [B]don't[/B] exist. So you have to just be agnostic about them.[/QUOTE]
Well, how are [I]you[/I] so certain there isn't a planet filled with leprechauns, hmm?
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
Ok, in all seriousness, we aren't talking about leprechauns, tooth fairies or what have you, we're talking about a god here. We can prove there weren't any leprechauns because there's no "end" to a rainbow. We can prove there's no tooth fairy because that's just shit your parents told you when you were younger after they threw your tooth away.
But how can you disprove that there was an entity that created this whole universe? That there was something else behind the big bang? These are questions that can't really be answered (at least, not now), which is why I choose to doubt. If I just told people I was atheist I would be telling them something that is not necessarily true. It's not that I don't believe in a god period, there's just no way to prove or disprove the existence of one, and I'm not gonna deny that possibility. I don't know what's so stupid about this way of thinking.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44120044]The existence of a magical person who can influence events in your life based on his own whims and judgements wouldn't affect you life? And lack of belief in this deity will result in you being tortured forever. It seems to me that the existence of a deity would be the most significant thing ever in a person's life if it was real.[/QUOTE]
since it's based on his own whims and judgement literally nothing i can do would change whatever they decide so there's no point in worrying about it.
if it were extremely obvious that there were a god, such as things completely inexplicable happening on a regular basis or a someone literally appearing in the sky saying "i am god" then hell yes i would be a worshiper. however as of now it isn't possible to prove or disprove their existence so it is a waste of time trying to debate if they really do exist. if they do exist and they're treating this realm as it is then they're having practically zero effect on my life as far as i can see.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44120324]Well, how are [I]you[/I] so certain there isn't a planet filled with leprechauns, hmm?
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
Ok, in all seriousness, we aren't talking about leprechauns, tooth fairies or what have you, we're talking about a god here. We can prove there weren't any leprechauns because there's no "end" to a rainbow. We can prove there's no tooth fairy because that's just shit your parents told you when you were younger after they threw your tooth away.
But how can you disprove that there was an entity that created this whole universe? That there was something else behind the big bang? These are questions that can't really be answered (at least, not now), which is why I choose to doubt. If I just told people I was atheist I would be telling them something that is not necessarily true. It's not that I don't believe in a god period, there's just no way to prove or disprove the existence of one, and I'm not gonna deny that possibility. I don't know what's so stupid about this way of thinking.[/QUOTE]
The leprechauns use their magic to warp physics and hide the real end of the rainbow. The Tooth Fairy used mind tricks on your parents and she really took the teeth after all.
You can make these caveats and hedges all day long. It's the same thing with a god. Since, by definition, these superstitions are magical and defy human reasoning and experimentation, then you can make whatever claims you want about them. There's no way to disprove leprechauns because they're magical and I can constantly moving the goalposts to keep them as a valid idea. Same with god.
How do you know that there isn't a sentient horse species behind the creation of the universe? This can never be proven or disproven. But why would you ever put any stock in it's validity? You can make an infinite amount of these claims and still never be able to be proven wrong.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;44088276]The agnostic thing vs. atheism thing is really illogical.
Agnosticism is not an in between for atheism and theism, stop using it that way it comes off as pretentious and it makes no sense. Pretty much every theist with any braincells in the 1st world is agnostic, whether they really like the idea of that or not, they believe in a god but that doesn't mean they know for certain it exists, that is called faith yo.
Not being able to disprove the existence of a god does nothing to justify theism, nothing logically justifies theism because theism is arbitrary. People would be collectively better off looking for an explanation for existence with only good ways we can muster, being prepared to accept some theistic answer if it so should happen, but not jumping to conclusions (theism/gnosticism) because that does nothing for anyone.[/QUOTE]
What
Most theist are gnostics, the KNOW for sure that god exists, and that's also called faith
[QUOTE=Explosions;44120832]How do you know that there isn't a sentient horse species behind the creation of the universe? This can never be proven or disproven. But why would you ever put any stock in it's validity? You can make an infinite amount of these claims and still never be able to be proven wrong.[/QUOTE]
You're right, I can't be sure. [I]Which is why I'm Agnostic[/I]. I don't get it, are you trying to disprove my beliefs or justify them?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
