Except most people who self-identify as agnostic are just atheists hiding from confrontation by sitting on the fence to keep people happy, which has hijacked the real meaning and now Atheist and Agnostic is seen as the same thing by a lot of people.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44121222]You're right, I can't be sure. [I]Which is why I'm Agnostic[/I]. I don't get it, are you trying to disprove my beliefs or justify them?[/QUOTE]
I'm pointing out the uselessness of the term other than its use as a technicality.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44121222]You're right, I can't be sure. [I]Which is why I'm Agnostic[/I]. I don't get it, are you trying to disprove my beliefs or justify them?[/QUOTE]
You're an atheist.
Answer the following question with a yes or no:
DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?
If you answered yes, you're a theist
If you answered no, you're an atheist.
Answering "I don't know if God exists" makes you an atheist. That's the end of it.
You get no moral high ground or superiority by calling yourself an agnostic. It's a retarded term.
this threads name needs to be changed to /r/atheism simulator 2014
If you believe in a God and you're sure that he exists, you're a [I]G[/I]nostic [I]T[/I]heist.
If you don't believe in a God and don't know if he exists or not, you're an [I]A[/I]gnostic [I]A[/I]theist.
If you believe in a God but don't know if he exists or not, you're a [I]A[/I]gnostic [I]T[/I]heist.
If you don't believe in a God and you're sure that he exists, you're a [I]G[/I]nostic [I]A[/I]theist.
The term Agnostic by itself is meaningless
Even if there was deity, Would that deity even give a shit about us? I mean if anything if there is one , it's most likely just probably sitting there smoking weed all day if anything lol
y wud god make me have to shit everyday of my life
way to break my dignity
i'm tired of devoting my time to taking shits
that's a lot of wasted time over time
What if you don't actually Conform to any believing system that is defined? What if you just called it burpalottashititall but didn't actually define what set belief really is?
[QUOTE=Explosions;44120044]So I'll assume you're also agnostic about leprechauns, goblins, dragons, the Tooth Fairy, etc. I mean, they're all magical and undetectable and you can't prove that they [B]don't[/B] exist. So you have to just be agnostic about them.
[/quote]Proper leprechauns can't exist, since their home is an optical illusion. Goblins could exist, but they aren't as much mythologic creatures, as they are fairytale creatures from made up stories. I'm pretty sure dragons exist, just not firebreathing gem-hoarding ones. Tooth fairy couldn't really exist either, unless they have a special agreement with the banks.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44120044]
Do you see the problem with this type of thinking? Saying you're "agnostic" about ludicrous and totally unlikely things just because they [B]could[/B] technically be true destroys the concept of certainty.[/quote]
I'm not agnostic about the current religions, since they were all pretty much made for post-poning existentialistic thoughts, and to put an ease on people's minds. I'm agnostic about the existence of a higher entity that has created us, but not in any way that has been written down or told yet. I guess that would make me an agnostic theistic evolution deist.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44120044][B]How do you know that you're actually looking at a computer right now and not some magical creature disguised to work as a computer?[/B]
[/QUOTE]
If my screen manufacturer was able to build living shapeshifting creatures out of minerals and plastic, then i'd say they've made a mistake in terms of design choice and purpose.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44120044]How do you know that I'm not actually a mystical witch on planet Neptune typing this post? You can't 100% disprove these things. But to say "I can't say for sure one way or the other that you're NOT a witch on Neptune" is ridiculous and meaningless.
[/QUOTE]
If you were, then you should reconsider your internet habbits. Also fuck you for not giving a shout-out about how neptune is habitable.
Just because everything is thinkable, doesn't mean that i think everything is possible.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44120324]Well, how are [I]you[/I] so certain there isn't a planet filled with leprechauns, hmm?
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
Ok, in all seriousness, we aren't talking about leprechauns, tooth fairies or what have you, we're talking about a god here. We can prove there weren't any leprechauns because there's no "end" to a rainbow. We can prove there's no tooth fairy because that's just shit your parents told you when you were younger after they threw your tooth away.
But how can you disprove that there was an entity that created this whole universe? That there was something else behind the big bang? These are questions that can't really be answered (at least, not now), which is why I choose to doubt. If I just told people I was atheist I would be telling them something that is not necessarily true. It's not that I don't believe in a god period, there's just no way to prove or disprove the existence of one, and I'm not gonna deny that possibility. I don't know what's so stupid about this way of thinking.[/QUOTE]
Magical beings like leprechauns or gods defy laws of physics and make unpredictable models of reality, in which you can't say for certain that an apple that has detached itself from a tree will fall down and not up. You don't want to have unpredictable models of reality where laws of physics are uncertain. Every conclusion you've made in your life was based on the predictability of the world around you. All of science is based on that too, you can't have science in non-predictable model of reality. Hell you can't even have math if 2+2 can sometimes equal 5.
Adopting unpredictable model of reality is unhealthy. For (exaggerated) example going "jesus is my seatbelt" can lead to your death, because you assumed that the first Newton's law won't apply to you when you crash.
That's why you adopt a predictable model of reality, where laws of physics are constant and there is no "outside" influence.
This is thread is /r/atheism levels of bad
What I don't get is why people are even trying. They are my beliefs, your warped logic is not gonna change them, specially in the internet.
But oh wait,
[QUOTE=EcksDee;44121701]You get no moral high ground or superiority by calling yourself an agnostic. It's a retarded term.[/QUOTE]
Clearly this is all the cause of my superiority complex. There's no possible way this is how I actually think, how silly of me.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44125187]What I don't get is why people are even trying. They are my beliefs, your warped logic is not gonna change them, specially in the internet.[/QUOTE]
Why did you get involved in the discussion if you don't give a shit about what the other side has to say then?
[QUOTE=Blazedol;44073974]If they're really that delusional, what's the point in arguing with them, then? Let them live in their lil world they have in their head, our words wont do anything.[/QUOTE]
Because they run our government.
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44121222]You're right, I can't be sure. [I]Which is why I'm Agnostic[/I]. I don't get it, are you trying to disprove my beliefs or justify them?[/QUOTE]
So you are agnostic to the sentient horse masters of the universe? That in itself should show how pointless of a term it is.
[QUOTE=OrDnAs;44125065]This is thread is /r/atheism levels of bad[/QUOTE]
Because people aren't allowed to have a discussion without being neckbeards, right?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;44125457]Why did you get involved in the discussion if you don't give a shit about what the other side has to say then?[/QUOTE]
Because people were calling me insensible or stupid so I just defended myself. You're the ones that keep trying to talk to someone stubborn like me.
[QUOTE=Falubii;44125531]So you are agnostic to the sentient horse masters of the universe? That in itself should show how pointless of a term it is.[/QUOTE]
How are you so sure they don't exist? I know it sounds stupid as fuck but how can you be so sure?
And no, I'm not certain it exists, I just don't deny the possibility because I can't.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44125187]What I don't get is why people are even trying. They are my beliefs, your warped logic is not gonna change them, specially in the internet.
But oh wait,
Clearly this is all the cause of my superiority complex. There's no possible way this is how I actually think, how silly of me.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it is, because you ARE an atheist. The definition of Atheist in the colloquial sense is the EXACT SAME as when someone says "Ooh I'm an agnostic"
THE SAMEEEEEE
Just call yourself an atheist, come on
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44125693]Because people were calling me insensible or stupid so I just defended myself. You're the ones that keep trying to talk to someone stubborn like me.
How are you so sure they don't exist? I know it sounds stupid as fuck but how can you be so sure?
And no, I'm not certain it exists, I just don't deny the possibility because I can't.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, atheists don't deny the possibility of a god neither, they just don't believe.
You don't believe neither. That makes you an atheist.
If you do not [B]actively worship a god,[/B] you are by definition an atheist.
After you've determined that, you can start saying that you're an agnostic atheist,
Guess what, 98% of atheists are agnostic atheists. I pulled that statistic from my ass but it's pretty much true.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44125693]Because people were calling me insensible or stupid so I just defended myself. You're the ones that keep trying to talk to someone stubborn like me.[/QUOTE]
People said your position is stupid. You gave arguments why it isn't. People gave you counter arguments at which point you put your fingers in your ears and go "lalala I don't care". If you don't care and don't want to have a discussion, why take part in the discussion?
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44125693]How are you so sure they don't exist? I know it sounds stupid as fuck but how can you be so sure?
And no, I'm not certain it exists, I just don't deny the possibility because I can't.[/QUOTE]
First of all
[QUOTE=EcksDee;44125762]If you do not [B]actively worship a god,[/B] you are by definition an atheist.
After you've determined that, you can start saying that you're an agnostic atheist, [/QUOTE]
And second, I gave you reasons why you assume that there are no magic horse gods [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1369616&p=44124015&viewfull=1#post44124015]here[/url].
[QUOTE=EcksDee;44125762]Yeah, it is, because you ARE an atheist. The definition of Atheist in the colloquial sense is the EXACT SAME as when someone says "Ooh I'm an agnostic"
THE SAMEEEEEE
Just call yourself an atheist, come on
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
Yeah, atheists don't deny the possibility of a god neither, they just don't believe.
You don't believe neither. That makes you an atheist.
If you do not [B]actively worship a god,[/B] you are by definition an atheist.
After you've determined that, you can start saying that you're an agnostic atheist,
Guess what, 98% of atheists are agnostic atheists. I pulled that statistic from my ass but it's pretty much true.[/QUOTE]
Oh ok, that's what this whole thing is about then. Wanting me to say one more word. Fine, I'll say "agnostic atheist" from now on. That way I'll get even more people confused.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44126045]Oh ok, that's what this whole thing is about then. Wanting me to say one more word. Fine, I'll say "agnostic atheist" from now on. That way I'll get even more people confused.[/QUOTE]
You can just say atheist though. The information conveyed by "atheist" is the same as "agnostic".
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;44126021]People said your position is stupid. You gave arguments why it isn't. People gave you counter arguments at which point you put your fingers in your ears and go "lalala I don't care". If you don't care and don't want to have a discussion, why take part in the discussion?[/QUOTE]
I defended myself and people (by which I mean you) started saying I actively believed in leprechauns, the tooth fairy and a horse god.
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT A COUNTER-ARGUMENT!?
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44126070]I defended myself and people (by which I mean you) started saying I actively believed in leprechauns, the tooth fairy and a horse god.
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT A COUNTER-ARGUMENT!?[/QUOTE]
What the hell? I made a long post about how predicable models of reality are better than unpredictable ones and you reply to me with "people (by which I mean you) started saying I actively believed in leprechauns, the tooth fairy and a horse god" and then have the fucking nerve to ask "HOW THE FUCK IS THAT A COUNTER-ARGUMENT!?".
How about how is what you just said a counter-argument? And quote me where I said you actively believe in leprechauns or whatever.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44126070]I defended myself and people (by which I mean you) started saying I actively believed in leprechauns, the tooth fairy and a horse god.
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT A COUNTER-ARGUMENT!?[/QUOTE]
no one said that
they said that all supernatural claims are equally illogical in that they all rely on the same infinitely regressive excuses based on unfalsifiability wherein you just say they're acting outside our current sphere of knowledge, and that if you're of the opinion that no one should have a particularly strong stance on whether god does or doesn't exist then you should be of the same stance on all other supernatural claims since they all have the exact same justification
people were taking your logic and showing the inconsistencies in it's application, that's a foundational part of any philosophical argument and i'm absolutely baffled that you misconstrued it as people saying you believe in unicorns
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44121789]If you believe in a God and you're sure that he exists, you're a [I]G[/I]nostic [I]T[/I]heist.
If you don't believe in a God and don't know if he exists or not, you're an [I]A[/I]gnostic [I]A[/I]theist.
If you believe in a God but don't know if he exists or not, you're a [I]A[/I]gnostic [I]T[/I]heist.
If you don't believe in a God and you're sure that he exists, you're a [I]G[/I]nostic [I]A[/I]theist.
The term Agnostic by itself is meaningless[/QUOTE]
By that logic, the term atheist is by itself meaningless too, because it doesn't convey more info than "Agnostic Atheist"
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Falubii;44125531]
Because people aren't allowed to have a discussion without being neckbeards, right?[/QUOTE]
Most atheist here are acting like spergs because they don't like people identifying themselves as agnostics.
[editline]4th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Manibogi;44126070]I defended myself and people (by which I mean you) started saying I actively believed in leprechauns, the tooth fairy and a horse god.
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT A COUNTER-ARGUMENT!?[/QUOTE]
falklands
[QUOTE=OrDnAs;44130728]By that logic, the term atheist is by itself meaningless too, because it doesn't convey more info than "Agnostic Atheist"[/quote]
Except conveying that information is all it needs to do, whereas "agnostic" by itself doesn't get you very far and is kind of ridiculous (as we've demonstrated).
[quote]Most atheist here are acting like spergs because they don't like people identifying themselves as agnostics.[/QUOTE]
How have we acted like "spergs"?
[QUOTE=Nillor;44054557]I hate how she's being so sure about everything, and making fun of the other people, even though, they sorta started it, and are being awkwardly silly (darwin had tried god plenty).
Science is kanon, but that doesn't really prove that there isn't a god. What if god just created the world, and then observed without interacting?
We can't really be sure about anything anytime soon, so discussing religion is silly.
[sp]Agnostic 4 lyfe[/sp][sp]or until the creator/creators show themselves[/sp][/QUOTE]
Look up the problem of suffering.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44131742]Except conveying that information is all it needs to do, whereas "agnostic" by itself doesn't get you very far and is kind of ridiculous (as we've demonstrated).
How have we acted like "spergs"?[/QUOTE]
You haven't demonstrated that agnosticism is ridiculous, so stop saying that. Agnostics(Weak atheism, agnostic atheism whatever the heck you want to call it) is not invalid just because you think so lol.
All you guys concluded is that you cannot reach a logical conclusion if you keep moving the goalposts
[QUOTE=OrDnAs;44132170]You haven't demonstrated that agnosticism is ridiculous, so stop saying that. Agnostics(Weak atheism, agnostic atheism whatever the heck you want to call it) is not invalid just because you think so lol.
All you guys concluded is that you cannot reach a logical conclusion if you keep moving the goalposts[/QUOTE]
Agnosticism without atheism is valid as long as it's consistent. In order for it to be consistent it needs to be ridiculous. You can say "we can never be sure that god 100% doesn't exist, that's as far as I'll go" but you also have to say the same about wizards, vampires, goblins, fairies, etc. This has been explained over four times now; you'e either not reading or you don't care to.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44132463]Agnosticism without atheism is valid as long as it's consistent. In order for it to be consistent it needs to be ridiculous. You can say "we can never be sure that god 100% doesn't exist, that's as far as I'll go" [B]but you also have to say the same about wizards, vampires, goblins, fairies, etc[/B]. This has been explained over four times now; you'e either not reading or you don't care to.[/QUOTE]
Oh cut me a slack, now you're being more dense than me. We have proved none of those ever existed, unless you're trying to play the stupid game in which case, can I go ahead and hit myself in the head with a hammer so I can have a chance at saying something more asinine than that?
[editline]5th March 2014[/editline]
The fact that you're implying that because I have my doubts about the existence of a creator god (and I have my reasons) I also have to believe in all those things too is borderline insulting.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44132463]Agnosticism without atheism is valid as long as it's consistent. In order for it to be consistent it needs to be ridiculous. You can say "we can never be sure that god 100% doesn't exist, that's as far as I'll go" but you also have to say the same about wizards, vampires, goblins, fairies, etc. This has been explained over four times now; you'e either not reading or you don't care to.[/QUOTE]
fuck son, first of all, i'll have to disregard every scientific concept for me to [I]even[/I] start pondering if [I]fucking leprechauns[/I] are real. Do you know any scientist that just goes "hey this shit is fucking magic" everytime he finds something that cannot be explained?
Why you keep insisting on using this stupid strawman? I just don't take for granted that there is no god, because that's [I]an assertion based on faith.[/I]
You aren't going to get far if you keep thinking that agnosticism is half-assed
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;44054592]how's that fence doing for ya ?[/QUOTE]
Why would I have to choose a camp in your tug of war battle when watching it with a big bag of popcorn is so much more entertaining
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