[QUOTE=.Lain;43889299]it isn't enforcing stereotypes on you, it's playing on common stereotypes and gender roles. this video actually tried to do the exact opposite if what you think it's doing[/QUOTE]
Well then it failed. If you're sending a message and no-one understands it, it's not everyone elses fault for not getting it, it's the senders fault for sending it poorly.
[QUOTE=.Lain;43889347]it isn't saying every man is like that though, is it
it's depicting the kind of stuff that seems to be relatively prevalant withing male society that shouldn't. it isn't saying 'every man every is like this'.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations, it's convinced people to not like behaviours that everyone already knew were obnoxious and inappropriate, the use of hyperbole completely undermined the core message. As a bonus, it has caused this argument about said use of hyperbole and is undermining the whole piece.
that's not what i mean even relatively but ok
that was actually really powerful, and really opened up my mind. I never thought of things that way.
So if this isn't supposed to be a typical case... Then what was the point?
Was this supposed to be a shocking revelation that rapists rape people, the mentally unhinged say discomforting things or abusive spouses typically don't care for their mates?
I kind of think this video would have worked exactly the same if the genders hadn't be swapped.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;43890479]I kind of think this video would have worked exactly the same if the genders hadn't be swapped.[/QUOTE]
There is so much they could have done with swapping genders, but instead it failed completely.
Men are raped by women, just through other means of coercion (Hi).
And there are plenty of men on the receiving end of abusive relationships with women (glad I can't count myself as one of them anymore,m wish I could trust/enjoy sex/sleep consistently well again,n but whatever, could be worse)
[QUOTE=Appellation;43891350]There is so much they could have done with swapping genders, but instead it failed completely. Men are raped by women, just through other means of coercion (Hi). And there are plenty of men on the receiving end of abusive relationships with women (glad I can't count myself as one of them anymore,m wish I could trust/enjoy sex/sleep consistently well again,n but whatever, could be worse)[/QUOTE]
no you dont understand women dont do abusive things at all its not possible this video shows it cant you see only men do this
[QUOTE=Mingebox;43890479]I kind of think this video would have worked exactly the same if the genders hadn't be swapped.[/QUOTE]
then it would of just been the french pining for attention again with their new hit short film [i]artificiel pièce de merde[/i]
wow its a satire?
huh
i thought thats how france really was
[editline]12th February 2014[/editline]
this video should be renamed
france
written, directed by, and starring maxofs2d
i think it's pretty obviously a satirical and exaggerated view of things that is supposed to make people think and start discussions
you guys are looking into it way too much and trying to find a way to be offended and discredit it based on some sort of 'double standard' that doesn't really exist
chill out. it's just supposed to provoke some thought
i thought it was pretty obviously aimed at the layman too - it's supposed to be blunt to get its point across because, guess what, there are actually tonnes of people in this world, both men and women, who have literally never ever even remotely considered that there might be anything wrong with gender inequality, or even knew it exists
I don't really get the point though, because I don't think that stuff happening to a woman would have come off across as any less horrible.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;43891610]I don't really get the point though, because I don't think that stuff happening to a woman would have come off across as any less horrible.[/QUOTE]
Well that makes sense. They put things that are already pretty bad from everyone's perspective, when they should've used more subtle things men generally don't know about. Because rape isn't normal from anyone's prespective, so are drunk assholes sexually harassing everyone passing by. And spousal abuse.
The rape and police things are especially poor choices, because that's exactly how things generally go when man gets raped by woman/women, it's dismissed or laughed at. While, as Explosions said, I'm yet to hear or see "Look at what she was wearing!" used unironically (but I don't doubt there're idiots out there who would say that), "was she hot", or "lucky guy", or "whish I was on his place, I'd know what to do" and even "lol how is that even possible" are pretty common.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;43891570]i think it's pretty obviously a satirical and exaggerated view of things that is supposed to make people think and start discussions
you guys are looking into it way too much and trying to find a way to be offended and discredit it based on some sort of 'double standard' that doesn't really exist
chill out. it's just supposed to provoke some thought
i thought it was pretty obviously aimed at the layman too - it's supposed to be blunt to get its point across because, guess what, there are actually tonnes of people in this world, both men and women, who have literally never ever even remotely considered that there might be anything wrong with gender inequality, or even knew it exists[/QUOTE]
This whole flipping sides is supposed to "provoke some thought" as in make men think twice whether what they are doing isn't discriminatory by looking at certain situations from the other side's eyes, yet it shows mostly things that nobody has to be told twice that are wrong? Fucking gang rape while having a knife pressed to your throat or spousal abuse? Yeah wow, I never realized that those were bad things until I saw this. Like gudman said, those should have been situations that don't occur to men as discriminatory because they are used to it and never think about it from the other perspective.
If you want to flip sides, do that and only that. Don't make every character that represents men an asshole. It would be much more relatable and less antagonizing. I know this "all men are assholes" isn't the message the makes intended, nobody fucking said it. It's beyond me that you can't give constructive criticism to anything that has anything to do with feminism or else you're gonna get jumped on as overthinking, being stupid or even misogynist. We're simply saying "this would have been better and more relatable if it wasn't exaggerated, making every person who represent men an asshole can send a wrong message".
as expected this went to trash immediately
over half of you missed the part where it doesn't take place in america
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43893102]This whole flipping sides is supposed to "provoke some thought" as in make men think twice whether what they are doing isn't discriminatory by looking at certain situations from the other side's eyes, yet it shows mostly things that nobody has to be told twice that are wrong? Fucking gang rape while having a knife pressed to your throat or spousal abuse? Yeah wow, I never realized that those were bad things until I saw this[/QUOTE]
obviously you picked the most silly and extreme examples to make your point, but the fact is there are millions of people who think saying things like "oh i should be talking to your husband really" are acceptable
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;43894285]obviously you picked the most silly and extreme examples to make your point,[/QUOTE]
You make it sound like I cherrypicked something. I didn't put this shit in the video that's supposed to open my eyes and make me realize that it isn't nice to do these things. Are you still arguing with me with the assumption that I'm giving you reasons why this video sucks or something? I'm giving constructive criticism, it would be much better without exaggerated or obvious situations.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;43894285]but the fact is there are millions of people who think saying things like "oh i should be talking to your husband really" are acceptable[/QUOTE]
Yes! And the entire video should be about situations like that. That's what I'm saying. You are slowly starting to get it.
I think you guys need to
man up ;)
this video reinforces the popular but untrue cultural assumption that rape most often involves strangers
[url]http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/commonmyths2.php[/url]
[quote]only 9% of rapes are committed by 'strangers'. Women are raped in their homes and in their work places where they are less likely to be believed and even less likely to report. This myth can control movements and restricts freedom.[/quote]
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;43891570]i think it's pretty obviously a satirical and exaggerated view of things that is supposed to make people think and start discussions
you guys are looking into it way too much and trying to find a way to be offended and discredit it based on some sort of 'double standard' that doesn't really exist
[B] chill out. it's just supposed to provoke some thought[/B]
i thought it was pretty obviously aimed at the layman too - it's supposed to be blunt to get its point across because, guess what, there are actually tonnes of people in this world, both men and women, who have literally never ever even remotely considered that there might be anything wrong with gender inequality, or even knew it exists[/QUOTE]
What thought.
I mean, how does the message change if the genders were flipped? Are we supposed to feel any less disgusted when the husband acts like a piece of shit to his wife? Or are we supposed to go "oh well, business as usual" when she gets gang-raped?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43888777]3. If the video is simply switching genders and doing nothing else, then it is saying that all men are assholes as all women in the video are assholes. That's why I'm criticizing this video for being exaggerated. If you want to show people how would it be if the sides were revered, do that and only that.[/QUOTE]
"Why can't this video about harassment towards women focus more on how nice men can be?"
[QUOTE=Larikang;43898466]"Why can't this video about harassment towards women focus more on how nice men can be?"[/QUOTE]
Said nobody ever. How the hell are you still missing the point? I have explained it so many times now. Get it to your head, I'm not complaining about the vid, I'm simply saying what could have made that vid better and what mistakes the makers did. Why do you have to get so defensive and spew strawmen everywhere when someone gives criticism to anything feminist related? The means of making men realize that some things they do are discriminatory was swapping genders. They failed to do that when they exaggerated things on top of that. Plus, another thing, you don't need to make an eye opener to make people realize that gang rape and spousal abuse is wrong.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43899545]Why do you have to get so defensive and spew strawmen everywhere when someone gives criticism to anything feminist related?[/QUOTE]
If you look around at the responses to feminism on the internet, they generally fall into two camps:
1. Men talking about how feminism is bullshit
2. Men talking about how feminism is great [i]but[/i] how this particular case is taking things too far
Just look at this thread. Look at how people rated the video. Why are so many people responding so angrily to the idea that this isn't malicious feminist propaganda? Why are there so few discussing the points raised by the video and so many tearing it apart and nitpicking every detail?
[QUOTE=Larikang;43900142]If you look around at the responses to feminism on the internet, they generally fall into two camps:
1. Men talking about how feminism is bullshit
2. Men talking about how feminism is great [i]but[/i] how this particular case is taking things too far
Just look at this thread. Look at how people rated the video. Why are so many people responding so angrily to the idea that this isn't malicious feminist propaganda? Why are there so few discussing the points raised by the video and so many tearing it apart and nitpicking every detail?[/QUOTE]
What points were raised by the video that any one of us hadn't known already.
[QUOTE=Larikang;43900142]If you look around at the responses to feminism on the internet, they generally fall into two camps:
1. Men talking about how feminism is bullshit
2. Men talking about how feminism is great [I]but[/I] how this particular case is taking things too far
Just look at this thread. Look at how people rated the video. Why are so many people responding so angrily to the idea that this isn't malicious feminist propaganda? Why are there so few discussing the points raised by the video and so many tearing it apart and nitpicking every detail?[/QUOTE]
Add something to your list
3. Batshit men who won't take ANY opinion that objects feminism or criticizes it even only by a tiny bit and who can't be reasoned with as they can't form an argument without ad hominems, strawmen and personal attacks. Just look at your own posts in this thread. You and your alike fueled most of the shitposting.
The video has flaws, it has problems portraying the message it wanted to by exaggerating thus making things harder to relate to and it strays away from it's point by showing things that don't have to explained to be wrong. People caught that and said it. Then you and some other people went into "abandon all reason defense mode" and started arguing how it's not exaggerated or how running topless is more comfortable (try arguing that with any woman, I dare you), and spewing idiotic strawmen left and right.
We're not focusing on the points the video wanted to make because it failed to deliver. The concept was good, the execution was bad. The reaction is the way it is because normal people don't blindly give a positive response to things simply because it's labeled "feminist" like you do, it actually has to be good too.
And I really wish it had been good. I really wish it had only swapped genders and shown some situations from women's life that are discriminatory yet most men doesn't realize that. There's quite a few people I'd have shown it if that was the case.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;43900497]What points were raised by the video that any one of us hadn't known already.[/QUOTE]
That women are still treated poorly.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43903384]That women are still treated poorly.[/QUOTE]
What a flaccid response.
Every behavior that was shown in that video is already known by anyone with an iota of awareness to be abhorrent. I don't need a video with flipped genders to realize spousal abuse is a real thing, or that gang rape isn't nice.
Why didn't it use everyday struggles that women go through? If it wanted to show me that women are being treated poorly, why didn't they do so by pointing out things the average guy might think is normal, but when flipped they realize just how absurd and unfair it is?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43903384]That women are still treated poorly.[/QUOTE]
Oh so that's why gang rape was shown? You know what? Now that I think about it, you might be right. It never occurred to me before. I'll stop doing that. So often at least. I think once a week is going to be reasonable.
I don't see why people are either complaining about the video one way or another, I think it's the best example of role reversal I've seen.
It makes a good point, especially with the Muslim part, I think more people should just try and understand the point it's making, sure it's very strange to see things like that but it's just to put it into something we can relate to, we as men are definitely not all like that, never once have I ever treated a girl like in that video but it's to really bring awareness to the people that do these things and don't even realize how the smallest things make an impact.
[QUOTE=Macneil_bmx;43907873]I don't see why people are either complaining about the video one way or another, I think it's the best example of role reversal I've seen.
It makes a good point, especially with the Muslim part, I think more people should just try and understand the point it's making, sure it's very strange to see things like that but it's just to put it into something we can relate to, we as men are definitely not all like that, never once have I ever treated a girl like in that video but it's to really bring awareness to the people that do these things and don't even realize how the smallest things make an impact.[/QUOTE]
It's to bring awareness to people who gang rape and abuse their spouses?
That's why we criticized the vid (not complained by the way), it should have been "pointing out things the average guy might think is normal, but when flipped they realize just how absurd and unfair it is" like Canuhearme? said, and without making it look like every single man is out to hurt women to stay true to the role reversal. It failed on both of these aspects.
[QUOTE=Macneil_bmx;43907873]I don't see why people are either complaining about the video one way or another, I think it's the best example of role reversal I've seen.
It makes a good point, especially with the Muslim part, I think more people should just try and understand the point it's making, sure it's very strange to see things like that but it's just to put it into something we can relate to, we as men are definitely not all like that, never once have I ever treated a girl like in that video but it's to really bring awareness to the people that do these things and don't even realize how the smallest things make an impact.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure gang rapists and abusive husbands everywhere will have a change of heart because of this entirely relevant and hard hitting video.
It's an interesting video that misses the mark through a complete lack of subtlety. The basic elements ring true (topless running, police not taking rape seriously, victim blaming) but they jump the shark by putting it all in one video and it dilutes the overall message.
That said I find a lot of the responses in this thread needlessly harsh. I also never understood the "People already know all this so don't post it" argument. It's not like you can say that with any objective accuracy.
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