TrackIR has nothing on VR, and maybe if that was some kind of high quality 3D monitor along with a black box shuttering you in with it.
[QUOTE=Orkel;49289316]
You're so wrong it's not even funny
[/QUOTE]
What kinds of games feature gameplay which is only possible due to VR, that would be impossible (if a lot more stale) with traditional design? I'm actually interested, as all I could come up with was games which use the actual depth perception combined with head tracking as a game mechanic.
I wasn't considering the greatly enhanced immersion as part of the gameplay at all, so maybe you were considering things differently than I was. Strip the immersion away, transfer camera control back to the mouse (or clunky keybindings, if the mouse is needed elsewhere) and you're left with the same gameplay.
I'm not trying to shit on VR or anything, it's an amazing path that we're going down and has amazing potential for games -- and I'm certainly getting a headset as soon as there's consumer release, competition and reviews. It's obvious why VR-only games exist (as I said in my post, Valkyrie wouldn't exist otherwise), and sure, there's plenty of experimental and traditional games which outright wouldn't be developed if it wasn't for VR (inspiring the devs, or making fantastic use of the immersion), but I'm talking core gameplay here.
i don't think that you could do hover junkers with a mouse and keyboard setup
[video=youtube;ff0vno8omJw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff0vno8omJw[/video]
Sure you could, it'd be pretty shit though. I was more talking about VR headsets, not motion controls, though.
Completely forgot about room-scale motion tracking and how dependent it is on VR to be easily usable, however.
[QUOTE=Em See;49289796]I wasn't considering the greatly enhanced immersion as part of the gameplay at all, so maybe you were considering things differently than I was. Strip the immersion away, transfer camera control back to the mouse (or clunky keybindings, if the mouse is needed elsewhere) and you're left with the same gameplay.[/QUOTE]
It improves on already existing genres by a huge margin. Playing a space game on a 2D monitor versus actually being in the ship, it's that difference that makes VR worth using. I always ask people like you the question: have you actually tried real VR? Something better than Cardboard? Why would I want to play on a 2D monitor, with mouse and keyboard, when I could actually be in the cockpit?
Are the ships you fly actual eve carrier fighters or are they new? Because it would be cool if the weapons you had were based on the faction of fighter you were using.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;49288569]Okay, why can't that be done with a mouse?[/QUOTE]
Because universally every single game on the planet that has implemented a headlook feature does not do it right at all with the mouse or keyboard controls. It's clunky and it does not feel right. Every game I've played that has it does it in a way that completely removes all control from what you're doing beyond looking around. No maneuvering your ship other than whatever trajectory you were already on.
It's in Planetside. It's in Battlefield. It's in Elite. It's in Star Citizen. The only game it isn't in that I've played is ARMA, but it's awkward as hell in ARMA too.
TrackIR eliminates alot of this awkward clunkiness, and I used one for awhile. Once I got a DK2, I never want to go back. It's not about immersion. That's just a word people like to throw around now. It's about how seamless it is. When I'm playing Elite, I look at what I want to target. And I target it. I know it sounds simple, but the way it feels, the ability to track targets within visual range by just looking around and still having the ability to maintain my ship and move it where I want to move it, it's unparalleled to what traditional headlook solutions currently provide.
Imagine if you couldn't drive your car any time you decided to move your head. That's what all current headlook stuff is like unless you've got a TrackIR or similar piece of hardware and a game that supports it. It just feels wrong.
[QUOTE=Orkel;49290176]It improves on already existing genres by a huge margin. Playing a space game on a 2D monitor versus actually being in the ship, it's that difference that makes VR worth using. I always ask people like you the question: have you actually tried real VR? Something better than Cardboard? Why would I want to play on a 2D monitor, with mouse and keyboard, when I could actually be in the cockpit?[/QUOTE]
???
I'm not arguing that a standard monitor setup is in any way comparable in the level of engagement and enjoyment you'd get through VR, nor am I saying VR is at all not worth it. VR is an absolute improvement over a traditional experience. I never even posed the suggestion that playing traditionally would be preferable.
I'm saying VR greatly improves upon traditional gameplay, but it doesn't make gameplay that was previously impossible, possible. The original topic was that there's no gameplay reason for a game to be VR-only (sure, there [I]are[/I] plenty of funding, design choice and development scope reasons)
[editline]11th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=haloguy234;49290542]Because universally every single game on the planet that has implemented a headlook feature does not do it right at all with the mouse or keyboard controls. It's clunky and it does not feel right. Every game I've played that has it does it in a way that completely removes all control from what you're doing beyond looking around. No maneuvering your ship other than whatever trajectory you were already on.
It's in Planetside. It's in Battlefield. It's in Elite. It's in Star Citizen. The only game it isn't in that I've played is ARMA, but it's awkward as hell in ARMA too.
TrackIR eliminates alot of this awkward clunkiness, and I used one for awhile. Once I got a DK2, I never want to go back. It's not about immersion. That's just a word people like to throw around now. It's about how seamless it is. When I'm playing Elite, I look at what I want to target. And I target it. I know it sounds simple, but the way it feels, the ability to track targets within visual range by just looking around and still having the ability to maintain my ship and move it where I want to move it, it's unparalleled to what traditional headlook solutions currently provide.
Imagine if you couldn't drive your car any time you decided to move your head. That's what all current headlook stuff is like unless you've got a TrackIR or similar piece of hardware and a game that supports it. It just feels wrong.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the extra freedom you get with head-tracking is amazing, I absolutely loved using it in Rise of Flight -- makes me wonder what that'd be like with a VR headset.
Think of VR as a luxury item
you don't NEED VR (generally) to play a game, but it certainly helps the experiance
you don't NEED a wheel to play a racing game, but it certainly helps the experiance
you don't NEED headphones to play a game involving hearing to get around, but it certainly helps the experiance
We can all agree that a wheel feels better for a racing game, and headphones really help you hear things better in games, but it doesn't necessarily change that much. VR is just the visual equivalent
headphones can let you spot an enemy with sound just like VR can help with depth perception. Without headphones certain games will be much harder (off the top of my head, Betrayer is the first that comes to mind)
thought I'd put my thoughts in
[QUOTE=mooman1080;49290232]Are the ships you fly actual eve carrier fighters or are they new? Because it would be cool if the weapons you had were based on the faction of fighter you were using.[/QUOTE]
You're fighting for the Valkyrie mercs in the game, hence the name. Most of the ships they seem to be using is actual drone ships from EvE but modified for their needs, so most look a bit like the standard carrier drones, but modified to fit their needs better.
The thing that'll keep me away from VR most is if that aim with your head shit becomes standard. Having to turn your head all over to pinpoint your targets is a one way street to neck strain.
Also, comparisons to graphics cards is a little disingenuous. Every genre of game and many non-game programs are improved by having a better graphics card. VR doesn't inherently make something better, you have to design a thing to be used in VR.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49292749]The thing that'll keep me away from VR most is if that aim with your head shit becomes standard. Having to turn your head all over to pinpoint your targets is a one way street to neck strain.
Also, comparisons to graphics cards is a little disingenuous. Every genre of game and many non-game programs are improved by having a better graphics card. VR doesn't inherently make something better, you have to design a thing to be used in VR.[/QUOTE]
You have to design a thing to to use a graphics card or have cutting edge graphics too
[QUOTE=paindoc;49292819]You have to design a thing to to use a graphics card or have cutting edge graphics too[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but video displays worked the same from a users point of view before dedicated graphics cards were a thing. A VR headset is a change in operation, much like the difference between a standard controller and a motion controller.
Of course VR is extra work toward immersion while motion controls are usually extra work away from it.
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