[QUOTE=elowin;41721121]exactly my point[/QUOTE]
I'm now also worried that this guy had a stroke, because that's the only way any of this would make sense
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41721128]I don't really think there's such a thing as men-friendly and women-friendly games (there's plenty of people from both sides that can like the same thing; Farmville has many male players just like your average dudebro FPS has many female players), but it wouldn't hurt to have more diversity within the game industry because then games might start avoiding the same tired tropes and BS most AAA games reek of.[/QUOTE]
We need to stop thinking as if men and women inherently only enjoy certain things, people are invididuals and thus think individually.
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721106]I don't think it's JUST a case of there not being a 50/50 split of male to female developers, the issue is far more deeply rooted in societal roles.[/QUOTE]
There's that too. But if criticism doesn't begin somewhere it might as well not exist. That's why there's people like Anita doing their thing.
[QUOTE=elowin;41721131]you're saying that anything which is similar is the same
thats not true ok[/QUOTE]
But they're not that different either! Two games can be massively different, but if people care about them and are enthusiastic about them, then they're gamers. That's it, end of story. There is no "real gamer".
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721106]I remember a while back there was a huge backlash from feminists on tumblr over why the female versions of armours and outfits in Guild Wars 2 were so much more revealing than the male ones, claiming that it was a male power fantasy.
Turned out the team had hired female fashion designers to make the clothes for the women because they wanted them to look good.
I don't think it's JUST a case of there not being a 50/50 split of male to female developers, the issue is far more deeply rooted in societal roles.[/QUOTE]
Fashion designers are not what I'm talking about. I mean modelers, programmers, level designers and concept artists. Of course fashion designers made revealing outfits, it's their job and it's what they did their entire lives.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41721119]Yes, that's right! If you don't play the video games I enjoy, you aren't a [I]real[/I] gamer. [B]You're just some whore begging for attention, yeah![/B][/QUOTE]
Um, where did he say this?
why do i even bother arguing with people who aren't interested in actually listening, and would rather spend their time twisting what everyone else says to make their "side" look superior
[QUOTE=elowin;41721164]why do i even bother arguing with people who aren't interested in actually listening, and would rather spend their time making themselves look superior[/QUOTE]
Yeah maybe you should take a break to go to the hospital and get an MRI scan because you're not alright
[QUOTE=Aethelflaed;41721154]But they're not that different either! Two games can be massively different, but if people care about them and are enthusiastic about them, then they're gamers. That's it, end of story. There is no "real gamer".[/QUOTE]
I like kiwis, lychees, mangosteens and durians. That guy over there likes bananas and apples. I GUESS HE'S NOT A REAL FRUITER. [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smug.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=elowin;41721164]why do i even bother arguing with people who aren't interested in actually listening, and would rather spend their time twisting what everyone else says to make their "side" look superior[/QUOTE]
With this attitude I can't imagine why people are having an issue understanding your point.
[QUOTE=elowin;41721164]why do i even bother arguing with people who aren't interested in actually listening, and would rather spend their time twisting what everyone else says to make their "side" look superior[/QUOTE]
no, I just don't think anyone here really understands what you're trying to get at. you're free to elaborate
[QUOTE=xxncxx;41721162]Um, where did he say this?[/QUOTE]
That's the kind of mindset I expect when someone says women playing games on their phone doesn't make them 'real gamers'.
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721188]I mean take Street Fighter 4. It's basically an excuse plot so that people can fight each other, but you've got nearly every single guy being a muscle-clad master with no shirt and huge arms, then nearly every single girl being a big-breasted agile fighter with barely any clothes on.
That game isn't being sexist, it's portraying both men and women in a very sexualized, attractive way, and it makes sense.[/QUOTE]
Muscles are more a power fantasy than a sexual thing though. (most women I know are very turned off by huge muscles, for what it's worth)
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721188]I think it depends on the game. Some games, like fighting games, have very simple plots that aren't too serious. As a result, the characters are more window-dressing for the core gameplay, so it makes more sense that the characters are just there to be looked at.
I mean take Street Fighter 4. It's basically an excuse plot so that people can fight each other, but you've got nearly every single guy being a muscle-clad master with no shirt and huge arms, then nearly every single girl being a big-breasted agile fighter with barely any clothes on.
That game isn't being sexist, it's portraying both men and women in a very sexualized, attractive way, and it makes sense.[/QUOTE]
They're not equal though. It's all mainly coming from the point of view of men, so the women are sexualised and the men are more like male power fantasies. I seriously doubt female designers would make all their male characters big and muscley in order to sexualise them
[editline]6th August 2013[/editline]
dammit max
The whole muscle-power-fantasy negatively affects men too, for anyone that doesn't see that. It puts out the ideal that if you're not huge and buff you're not a real man or some shit like that, it's all come around because of the patriarchy which yes, does negatively affect both women and men a whole lot.
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721242]Then why is that exactly what female romance novelists do? The larger majority of Women find muscular men attractive just like a large majority of men find large breasted and slim women attractive.
Not saying "ALL" there, just that it is the most common norm.[/QUOTE]
It's almost like the book and media industry is run by men or something! :O
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721242]Then why is that exactly what female romance novelists do? The larger majority of Women find muscular men attractive just like a large majority of men find large breasted and slim women attractive.
Not saying "ALL" there, just that it is the most common norm.[/QUOTE]
Could you pull up something to actually prove that most women find muscular men more attractive? If anything, most women I know don't like bulging muscles at all.
I see the whole muscles thing more as a solely man-based power fantasy, not to do with women.
[editline]5th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721242]
Exactly, but it's sort of an ignored point compared to the objectification of women for some reason.
Frankly I like playing as muscular powerful male characters though. Makes me feel like, whilst i'm playing the game, i'm a big strong dude who is really powerful and cool. Is that so bad?[/QUOTE]
That's actually like, you proving that the system works. Muscular men are idolized, which negatively affects anyone that isn't. Like trying to make you change yourself to appeal to others. Not saying that you do want to be muscular or anything, but that's just how the patriarchy tends to work.
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721242]Exactly, but it's sort of an ignored point compared to the objectification of women for some reason.
Frankly I like playing as muscular powerful male characters though. Makes me feel like, whilst i'm playing the game, i'm a big strong dude who is really powerful and cool. Is that so bad?[/QUOTE]
Well it's not so much that it's ignored, it's just a completely different topic. Plus I can't really say enough people have come out and spoken up about it to make it an actual issue.
It's not something that's making it difficult for men in the gaming scene since they already make up the majority and in some sense make all the rules. Objectification of women, on the other hand, can make it difficult for women to really enter and embrace the subculture.
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721293]Women are objectified
Men are objectified
These are 2 different topics?[/QUOTE]
It's not male objectification though. They're not being reduced to objects, they're being made masculine and powerful.
[QUOTE=Jackald;41721309][url]http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/most_desirable_traits/Top_5_Physical_Attributes.php[/url]
Sense of style
Handsome Face
Height
Muscular Build
Fitness
So that's 99% of all male video game protagonists then...[/QUOTE]
Um, "sense of style" was the clear majority here. "Sense of style" and "handsome face" combined make over 50% of the results.
"Muscular build" and "fitness" sit pretty far down, and they're mainly what video game protagonists are about.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;41721323]Um, "sense of style" was the clear majority here. "Sense of style" and "handsome face" combined make over 50% of the results.
"Muscular build" and "fitness" sit pretty far down, and they're mainly what video game protagonists are about.[/QUOTE]
Nah dude, wearing 30 belts and a cape is swag as hell.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;41721345]Nah dude, wearing 30 belts and a cape is swag as hell.[/QUOTE]
Just needs a fedora to complete the ensemble.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41721190]That's the kind of mindset I expect when someone says women playing games on their phone doesn't make them 'real gamers'.[/QUOTE]
He never even said anything about women, stop assuming things he's not saying.
Then you rate me dumb because I was right.
[QUOTE=Aethelflaed;41721376]Just needs a fedora to complete the ensemble.[/QUOTE]
A true, manly, dashing explorer. The epitome of a man that women clamor over.
It's a pity he's never actually talked to a woman!
[QUOTE=Protocol7;41721345]Nah dude, wearing 30 belts and a cape is swag as hell.[/QUOTE]
pfft
only 30?
[QUOTE=Protocol7;41721382]A true, manly, dashing explorer. The epitome of a man that women clamor over.
It's a pity he's never actually talked to a woman![/QUOTE]
It's too bad too, because he's such a nice guy
All this powerful masculine power fantasy stuff with muscles and fighting and "manly men" is gross and the sexualization of women as either some form of empowerment or some form of objectification is gross.
Normal/neutral/cute/realistic characters are the only ones I can sympathize with properly.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;41721584]All this powerful masculine power fantasy stuff with muscles and fighting and "manly men" is gross and the sexualization of women as either some form of empowerment or some form of objectification is gross.
Normal/neutral/cute/realistic characters are the only ones I can sympathize with properly.[/QUOTE]
That's what games are, though. Fantasy. What's wrong with allowing creators to design some crazy, over the top character?
don't you just love feminist circlejerks
i sure know i do
[QUOTE=elowin;41721599]don't you just love feminist circlejerks
i sure know i do[/QUOTE]
Epic ownage dudebro
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