[QUOTE=l l;41859329]But it would be better to show respect to each side of the argument even if you disagree with it, no one is going to want to listen to you or respect your opinion if you're insulting everyone who disagrees with you.[/QUOTE]
mhm.
perhaps your description of a "mental triggers" esrb system is so fuckin convoluted that you yourself has no idea how it would even work is just plainly confusing everyone
you've essentially tried to encapsulate everything in this weird ass system of yours for some social justice tirade, you need to take a fuckin breather man
^^^ this
there's a reason ESRB isn't split into "Rape, Murder, Attempted Murder" and etc.
it gets way too detailed for what could easily be encompassed into a few easy to discern categories.
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[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41859344]War games are mostly fictional creations involving a fight that never happened using weapons and vehicles that tend to not exist in their entirety, they also lend themselves to a more ridiculous and cinematic experience akin to a bourne film.
Saving Private Ryan was a huge film created to realistically depict a very real event, taking care to make sure every last detail on uniforms and weapons were accurate to history
there's a huge margin that you are not paying attention to[/QUOTE]
well the guys in that theatre were like 80 years old at the time i doubt they were picking out every little detail, i doubt the insignia on their helmets is the only reason they connected
not only that, but a huge amount of the movie is dramatized, particularly the last section where they go to a town that does not exist. that was not a real event. frankly you are arguing semantics. it is the act occurring on the screen, the idea and memories entering the head, and then causing the trigger. that's the process. there is only a certain point up to which detail matters.
obviously detail helps when coping, but when you are seeing something raw and evoking on the screen (as i am sure you will attest to of hotline miami) the details are not relevant. the act is occurring, and with it the trigger.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=l l;41859368]I'm talking to you mostly with those posts I made.
This usually always happens in threads regarding anything related to sex or genders and the people who are not the majority are usually always being sarcastic or condescending and then everyone flames them and doesn't treat them with respect because of it.
Do they think being rude is going to make people want to listen to them?[/QUOTE]
I am not flaming anyone. any time I "attack" anyone in this thread it is in retort to an attack on myself, which of course, is not the most mature way to handle things, but there's only so much i can do
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859335]it really makes me legitimately sad that i get called a "troll" or what have you when i am just talking about how i feel and very plainly stating my opinions. i am sorry if i come off as sarcastic, but PLEASE understand i think probably everyone i talked to today (with the exception of one person) is probably a good person and I hold nothing against them. there's really no need to be so aggro, no need to act like there are "sides" or like are fighting some kind of war. its the fucking internet! lets be friends! jeez lol
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
i dont see how what you are saying is objective, but okay[/QUOTE]
The reason you're getting called a troll is that you keep saying the exact same thing and artifically lengthen the discussion by always saying the same thing after numerous people showed you that what you want exists already
The reason it is starting to sound a little meaner (although that is subjective) is that you're asking for a warning about sexual violence - we show you there is a warning for sexual violence - then you say a warning for sexual violence would be nice
It's like when a friend asks you if you have pizza in the fridge, you say yes and then your friend keeps going on about how it would be nice to have pizza in the fridge
It's the overarching details that matter. The locales were generally real (the main areas of the country), the war was real, that kind of thing.
[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;41859352]perhaps your description of a "mental triggers" esrb system is so fuckin convoluted that you yourself has no idea how it would even work is just plainly confusing everyone
you've essentially tried to encapsulate everything in this weird ass system of yours for some social justice tirade, you need to take a fuckin breather man[/QUOTE]
the "triggers" rating system or whatever was just a tangent, the point being the esrb is far too broad to encapsulate and warn people of smaller and more specific triggers. the esrb isnt there to help people with ptsd lol, that is not their objective.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=SHITBULLET;41859382]The reason you're getting called a troll is that you keep saying the exact same thing and artifically lengthen the discussion by always saying the same thing after numerous people showed you that what you want exists already
The reason it is starting to sound a little meaner (although that is subjective) is that you're asking for a warning about sexual violence - we show you there is a warning for sexual violence - then you say a warning for sexual violence would be nice
It's like when a friend asks you if you have pizza in the fridge, you say yes and then your friend keeps going on about how it would be nice to have pizza in the fridge[/QUOTE]
i am saying ANOTHER warning would be nice, doing more than what is simply mandatory, going above and beyond to accommodate these people who you could potentially harm. there is no discussion i am lengthening, I just feel there has not been a single good reason why a dev could not or even would not want to put extra warnings into their game on the very small chance they even included such content.
"The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings provide concise and objective information about the content in video games and apps so consumers, especially parents, can make informed choices."
The ESRB is designed to cover what you're saying, it's warnings. It doesn't matter who is reading it, parents or rape victims, it's designed to show you the content in the game and to tell you "this may not be for you"
You're suggesting a whole new system to do the same thing but for ptsd in deeper detail when that'd be incredibly redundant.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859390]the "triggers" rating system or whatever was just a tangent, the point being the esrb is far too broad to encapsulate and warn people of smaller and more specific triggers. the esrb isnt there to help people with ptsd lol, that is not their objective.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
i am saying ANOTHER warning would be nice, doing more than what is simply mandatory, going above and beyond to accommodate these people who you could potentially harm. there is no discussion i am lengthening, I just feel there has not been a single good reason why a dev could not or even would not want to put extra warnings into their game on the very small chance they even included such content.[/QUOTE]
There's a very small chance the fucking disc can launch out of the tray, hardware manufacturers dont warn about that though.
Because it's an insignificant number that has shown no real bearing on the real world.
Worst part is, I've seen discs fly out of trays and explode more times then I've heard of video games triggering PTSD
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859390]the "triggers" rating system or whatever was just a tangent, the point being the esrb is far too broad to encapsulate and warn people of smaller and more specific triggers. the esrb isnt there to help people with ptsd lol, that is not their objective.[/QUOTE]
Then why are you suggesting some vague 'trigger' warnings' which don't meet their objectives. The ESRB and PEGI are designed to inform consumers about the general content of a game and give a suggested age which is suitable for people to play.
All you're doing now is trying to get the last word in because none of your arguments hold any weight. You want warnings for rape? The sexual violence warning has existed for decades. Adding a splash screen is a waste of time, resources, and wouldn't accomplish a damn thing.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41859386]It's the overarching details that matter. The locales were generally real (the main areas of the country), the war was real, that kind of thing.[/QUOTE]
not a single scene in that film was shot in germany, if that is what you're implying.
No, but it was a representation OF.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;41859423]Then why are you suggesting some vague 'trigger' warnings' which don't meet their objectives. The ESRB and PEGI are designed to inform consumers about the general content of a game and give a suggested age which is suitable for people to play.
All you're doing now is trying to get the last word in because none of your arguments hold any weight. You want warnings for rape? The sexual violence warning has existed for decades. Adding a splash screen is a waste of time, resources, and wouldn't accomplish a damn thing.[/QUOTE]
see, there's a point at the top there, then a personal attack on the bottom which makes an absurd statement about a 2 second screen wasting resources. why?
regardless, addressing the first, I am saying the ESRB and PEGI do not address those things as they are not intended to. i am saying exactly what you are saying. i am disagreeing with people saying they are adequate to warn people with PTSD who could be triggered, specifically because that is not their intention.
so you just agreed with me.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41859429]No, but it was a representation OF.[/QUOTE]
and a depiction of rape is a depiction of rape. that's really all I have to say about that. to a rape victim, that is far more than enough. seeing it in vivid detail might just send them into a coma
(exaggerating)
i dont think you read that right, he's saying that ESRB and PEGI do the job of your really bad PTSD ratings board just fine
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41859408]"The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings provide concise and objective information about the content in video games and apps so consumers, especially parents, can make informed choices."
The ESRB is designed to cover what you're saying, it's warnings. It doesn't matter who is reading it, parents or rape victims, it's designed to show you the content in the game and to tell you "this may not be for you"
You're suggesting a whole new system to do the same thing but for ptsd in deeper detail when that'd be incredibly redundant.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
There's a very small chance the fucking disc can launch out of the tray, hardware manufacturers dont warn about that though.
Because it's an insignificant number that has shown no real bearing on the real world.
Worst part is, I've seen discs fly out of trays and explode more times then I've heard of video games triggering PTSD[/QUOTE]
that is just anecdotal evidence, though. i am sure if you knew any rape survivors at all you would be telling a very different story.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41859461]i dont think you read that right, he's saying that ESRB and PEGI do the job of your really bad PTSD ratings board just fine[/QUOTE]
my really bad rating board? like it really exists? what?
and no it doesnt do the job, there are countless things esrb doesnt cover, but they have no need to! that's not their job! why should they? some people are triggered by seeing a car crash, for example. why would the esrb cover that? lol
oh that's very fucking funny, as someone with close friends who are rape survivors.
The disc tray thing was a funny joke, I keep within the realms of reality for discussions like this because personal reference is bad debating.
well please, go ask them if they have ever felt triggered while watching a movie, or even playing a video game. again, just because you have not personally heard of it does not mean it's just not a thing, that it's just made up.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859439]see, there's a point at the top there, then a personal attack on the bottom which makes an absurd statement about a 2 second screen wasting resources. why?
regardless, addressing the first, I am saying the ESRB and PEGI do not address those things as they are not intended to. i am saying exactly what you are saying. i am disagreeing with people saying they are adequate to warn people with PTSD who could be triggered, specifically because that is not their intention.
so you just agreed with me.[/QUOTE]
No one is saying it's "adequate to warn people with PTSD who could be triggered". They're saying it's irrelevant. People with PTSD aren't dribbling retards incapable of researching the media they consume, those who are aware of their PTSD are probably more likely to be aware of the warning that exist already.
A splash screen would be a waste of time on the developers part because the warning already exists in multiple places before the games is purchased or launched. It wastes the consumer's time because they either already know, thanks to the warnings they saw before buying the game, or it doesn't affect them so they don't care.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;41859519]No one is saying it's "adequate to warn people with PTSD who could be triggered". They're saying it's irrelevant. People with PTSD aren't dribbling retards incapable of researching the media they consume, those who are aware of their PTSD are probably more likely to be aware of the warning that exist already.
A splash screen would be a waste of time on the developers part because the warning already exists in multiple places before the games is purchased or launched. It wastes the consumer's time because they either already know, thanks to the warnings they saw before buying the game, or it doesn't affect them so they don't care.[/QUOTE]
The ESRB is designed to cover what you're saying, it's warnings. It doesn't matter who is reading it, parents or rape victims, it's designed to show you the content in the game and to tell you "this may not be for you"
^^^ well, he is saying it.
not only that, but if you searched "does gears of war have car crashes in it?" i dont think you'd get any results that would help you
and you are skipping over people who don't know. that's who it is for. that's the idea.
So you're basically making a board that panders to minorities, delays games even further because now they have to go through another ratings system in case the games include car crashes or scratching on the wall or shit like that, and it's a good idea because it protects people
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859541]The ESRB is designed to cover what you're saying, it's warnings. It doesn't matter who is reading it, parents or rape victims, it's designed to show you the content in the game and to tell you "this may not be for you"
^^^ well, he is saying it.
not only that, but if you searched "does gears of war have car crashes in it?" i dont think you'd get any results that would help you
and you are skipping over people who don't know. that's who it is for. that's the idea.[/QUOTE]
No? He's saying it's up to the consumer to determine whether a game would be suitable for them based on the rating given. If you are a rape victim and you're likely to be triggered by a rape scene [i]and you know this[/i] you should know that a game marked as having "sexual violence" might not be for you. And if you don't know that you could be triggered [i]the warning is meaningless to you[/i].
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41859557]So you're basically making a board that panders to minorities, delays games even further because now they have to go through another ratings system in case the games include car crashes or scratching on the wall or shit like that, and it's a good idea because it protects people[/QUOTE]
i was just suggesting that people who have ptsd could help each other out and and have a 3rd party community run wiki type thing where they could help each other out in that capacity. i said nooooooooothing about putting it on game cases or even forcing games to adhere to them or anything. you are really putting words and ideas in my mouth.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;41859567]No? He's saying it's up to the consumer to determine whether a game would be suitable for them based on the rating given. If you are a rape victim and you're likely to be triggered by a rape scene [i]and you know this[/i] you should know that a game marked as having "sexual violence" might not be for you. And if you don't know that you could be triggered [i]the warning is meaningless to you[/i].[/QUOTE]
yeauuup just saying if they miss the warning it wouldnt hurt to have another in the game! :)
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859597]i was just suggesting that people who have ptsd could help each other out and and have a 3rd party community run wiki type thing where they could help each other out in that capacity. i said nooooooooothing about putting it on game cases or even forcing games to adhere to them or anything. you are really putting words and ideas in my mouth.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
yeauuup just saying if they miss the warning it wouldnt hurt to have another in the game! :)[/QUOTE]
You also said nooooooooothing about making a wiki, and considering the discussion has been focused around ratings boards, and you've been criticising(or whatever you're trying to do) the ESRB it's natural to assume you wanted a new ratings system. We aren't fucking mind readers.
[b]They can't miss the warning unless they intentionally ignore it. If that is the case then an additional warning will also go ignored.[/b] It wouldn't hurt to have another warning, it wouldn't help either. It wouldn't hurt to coat every building with cushions, and make floors out of foam, but we don't because it's fucking stupid.
We don't live in a world of rainbows and unicorns. The best we can do, within reason, is to make warnings clear and available to people who need them. If they choose to ignore them that's their damn problem.
What makes you think a splash screen wouldn't go ignored? If they've already ignored the warning when buying the game? You're entire 'argument' has been "It'd be nice if they did it".
you're assuming it wouldn't help, I am assuming it would. that's really all there is to it. i don't know if they'll ignore it or not, but I can say "at least the developer tried"
your "point" is just as baseless as mine, "it wouldn't make a difference". neither of us actually know.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859682]you're assuming it wouldn't help, I am assuming it would. that's really all there is to it. i don't know if they'll ignore it or not, but I can say "at least the developer tried"
your "point" is just as baseless as mine, "it wouldn't make a difference". neither of us actually know.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't make a difference because there's nothing for it to make a difference to. There have been no cases of people being triggered by playing games. That means either the warnings which are already in place serve their function adequately, or playing games is unlikely to trigger PTSD trauma because it is so far removed from reality that no one conflates the two.
Your suggestion is redundant.
heh, got him on a technicality
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
Anyhow, it's really hard to remember what this thread was even about originally, it got shat up so bad by that dude.
I feel like in Hotline Miami 2, the way they handle the whole rape scene fits really well with the neon lit massacre that is the game, and it doesn't seem like some tasteless "oh look shock!"
The funny part is the scenes where you're in the movie recreation of the original game are intentionally exaggerated, with far more gore than the regular scenes where you play as the Fans. So the rape scene was literally the ingame director trying to be shocking and edgy.
I cant stop laughing!
If that rape scene contributed to rape culture the whole game itself contributes to (extremely cruel) murder culture. And I know I'd rather take it in the ass than be beaten repeatedly with a lead pipe until i become a bloddy pulp.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857677]i don't think a lot of you really understand what ptsd from rape really is.
one of my best friends was raped a year or two ago, and she freaks out occasionally. it's really scary when it happens.
[B] i know facepunch laughs at this because they're a bunch of white dudes, but "triggering" is a real thing and we can't just tell many people, including rape victims, to deal with it.[/B][/QUOTE]
White people confirmed as insensitive rape apologists.
so we can murder a bunch of black dudes and mobsters in video games BUT OH NO WHEN A RAPE COMES ALONG it's some sort of fucking social travesty lol yeah right.
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