Y'know, it'd make a whole lot more sense to argue that they should have these warnings at the start of [I]trailers[/I], rather than the game; since you're likely to see a trailer before gameplay, and if you see it there then you won't buy the game.
Oh, wait. ESRB and PEGI ratings already appear at the start of trailers. [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/app/206420/"]And those trailers autoplay on steam[/URL].
but i mean if we're gonna be technical it's not actually a rape it's just acting for a film
If are worrying about a game having a rape scene or an other sort of trigger then go a head an either not play it or do research on if it has such triggers.
The ratings are there to warn you that it can contain violence but no one has the right to ask for this to be censored, you have the right to complain about it but don't expect the world to cater to your needs if you don't like it, leave it. What is so hard about that?
And the whole it can be a trigger is a bullshit excuse if we are going to censor one trigger, we should be censoring them all but we don't as it is our right.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857677]i don't think a lot of you really understand what ptsd from rape really is.
one of my best friends was raped a year or two ago, and she freaks out occasionally. it's really scary when it happens.
i know facepunch laughs at this because they're a bunch of white dudes, but "triggering" is a real thing and we can't just tell many people, including rape victims, to deal with it.[/QUOTE]
Do you really believe that all references to rape should be censored because some people might have PTSD? What about violence? Should all references to blood or death be censored too because it might trigger someone's PTSD? How about car crashes? It's the same concept. I'm sorry that happened to your friend but can you honestly tell me that you'd like to see all of these references to possibly stressful events be completely censored?
Rape and death are really terrible things, but just because a couple people might experience PTSD from watching these scenes doesn't mean we should get rid of all references to it in media.
it is okay to show a +30 second scene of a helpless drugged-out man being gangbeaten to death while he pleads to be taken home, but the part of the game that is being taken offense to is an implied rape scene that lasts for 2 - 3 seconds
ok
It was so short I didn't even realize there was a rape until somebody pointed it out and made a big fuss over it.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41859682]you're assuming it wouldn't help, I am assuming it would. that's really all there is to it. i don't know if they'll ignore it or not, but I can say "at least the developer tried"
your "point" is just as baseless as mine, "it wouldn't make a difference". neither of us actually know.[/QUOTE]
Why stop at one warning?
The game should be reminding you every 5 minutes in case you were away from your desk grabbing a drink or going to the bathroom when the original trigger warning popped up. Or in case they skipped it without reading it.
We need to keep reminding them that there's rape because they can't be bothered to read the warnings. Make sure to have audio recordings that play much louder than the game's typical settings so that even if they miss all the warnings you'll know because "THIS GAME CONTAINS DEPICTIONS OF RAPE." will be blaring out of your speakers/headphones. Hopefully the player isn't deaf.(But they will be after that warning plays)
Put in game signs up too like "This way to the rape scene!"
Hopefully this should deter everyone from playing the game and there will be no more problems.
why are people criticizing hotline miami for this
there's so much shit that caused me to feel physically repulsed in the original, even feeling nausea at some points
but that's the point, it's the contrast of the addictive gameplay, points scoring, flashing colours and pulsing music, with the fucking horrifying acts of violence you're committing because of a voice on a phone. It's akrasia
that and people saying it should have a specific warning of rape for rape victims is essentially saying that anyone suffering PTSD/trauma from any violent encounters they've had can get fucked, and that hotline miami was absolutely fine until they brought up rape, because the only people that suffer triggers are rape victims, and not other people who have been exposed to appalling violence.
I really, really don't see why any artist in any media should be forced to censor their material as long as it serves a purpose. It could be tasteless gore, profanity, allusions to and depictions of sexual acts/ sexual violence. As long as it's not done to purposefully antagonise victims of violent crime, rape, survivors of war, etc. there should be no problem with it. Even if it's used for "shock value", while it's a shittier reason to use it, censoring it doesn't get us anywhere.
Our rating systems more than cover for most of these scenarios, people could do more background research on something before buying it and finding themselves curled up in a ball after something triggers them. That is no way the fault of the artist. As for games causing PTSD, I'm pretty sure they don't normally, otherwise why would we see them being used in rehabilitation? Some treatments involve putting the soldier in the scenario their PTSD stems from, that would surely trigger them right? Instead it seems to aid their recovery, they get closure from it (at least, from what I remember coming across they did).
Even my girlfriend thinks this argument is completely ridiculous. She said the same thing as me, "I have friends who are rape survivors and they don't get all butthurt over rape in media, it's shitty but it happens and it's been a story element since the dawn of time and that's not going to change. Expecting developers to cater to such a minority would mean you'd have to cater to them all and that's not in their job descriptions. Don't like the content? Don't watch it. Don't play it. Don't read it."
So what is it about regular violence that is ok compared to sexual violence? I am not saying we should censor either but these people who use the argument of triggering seem to think that only sexual violence can be an issue.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
-Bill Cosby
Don't like a game for it's content? go to another game. don't try to make it change to your views.
Your free to say "i don't like <the rape scene/violence/etc.>" as a opinion but as the video said, when it actually changes vital parts of a game it's no longer a opinion, it's censorship.
im starting to get pissed off at the entire gaming industry for stupid controversy shit like this.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41857371]but games like Hotline Miami are supposed to be pastiches of ultra-violence
[B]the same way Clockwork Orange was supposed to be as a book.[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually it wasn't, and Anthony Burgess absolutely disapproved of that view.
[quote]"We all suffer from the popular desire to make the known notorious. The book I am best known for, or only known for, is a novel I am prepared to repudiate: written a quarter of a century ago, a [I]jeu d'esprit[/I] knocked off for money in three weeks, it became known as the raw material for a film which seemed to glorify sex and violence. The film made it easy for readers of the book to misunderstand what it was about, and the misunderstanding will pursue me until I die. I should not have written the book because of this danger of misinterpretation, and the same may be said of Lawrence and [I]Lady Chatterley's Lover[/I]." Burgess also dismissed [I]A Clockwork Orange[/I] as "too didactic to be artistic".[/quote]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_clockwork_orange#Writer.27s_dismissal[/URL]
[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;41861265]If are worrying about a game having a rape scene or an other sort of trigger then go a head an either not play it or do research on if it has such triggers.
The ratings are there to warn you that it can contain violence but no one has the right to ask for this to be censored, you have the right to complain about it but don't expect the world to cater to your needs if you don't like it, leave it. What is so hard about that?
And the whole it can be a trigger is a bullshit excuse if we are going to censor one trigger, we should be censoring them all but we don't as it is our right.[/QUOTE]
There shouldn't be alchoholic refrences and or consumption of alchohol in video games because I am an alchohlic and exposing me to these will put me at risk.
-snip, replying to a page one thing because I'm a dumb-
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857584]that's a disgusting outlook to take. you really should all 1. consider other's feelings 2. understand what PTSD is.[/QUOTE]
there are people that say things like this that cannot look into the reality of the situation, and want to live in their safe imaginary worlds. all outlooks, thoughts and visions grounded in reality scares them, or they do not want to change, so they call these opinions things like "disgusting", "offensive", "harmful."
i usually call this "the tumblr generation". and it's horrible, and it's more or less running the video game journalism world.
It's understandable that people would be triggered by Hotline Miami 2's content, but it's not like this rape scene is anything new. We knew from previews ages ago that there was going to be a rape scene. It was shown in the first preview.
Also, I think it's important to understand that Hotline Miami is a game series which is extremely critical of violence. Everything is done very self-consciously; as NoDachi pointed out, the game's violence isn't intended to be enjoyed, it's intended to be repulsive. This isn't a QTE rape event where you jam mouse1 until you're done. Hotline Miami doesn't aestheticize violence the same way that Mortal Kombat does. HLM is intended to be horrifying and repulsive and make you think about how awful violence is within media.
Getting upset at Hotline Miami 2's rape scene is like getting upset at Toni Morrison for writing about incest, rape, and pedophilia within the poc community. You simply [b][i]cannot[/b][/i] cherry-pick this example and use it as a pinpoint of ultra-violence and misogyny within video gaming. There are a lot of misogynistic & ultraviolent examples within gaming, but this one is meant to be horrifying in the first place. It's anti-violent and anti-misogynistic. It's ugly.
All that said, it would probably be a good idea for the staff to put in some sort of trigger warning on the product. But most preview sites make it very clear that the content within the game is, well, triggering. And, as someone who played Hotline Miami 1, it's very clear from the cover alone that this game isn't for the faint of heart or easily triggered.
[editline]17th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857677]i don't think a lot of you really understand what ptsd from rape really is.
one of my best friends was raped a year or two ago, and she freaks out occasionally. it's really scary when it happens.
i know facepunch laughs at this because they're a bunch of white dudes, but "triggering" is a real thing and we can't just tell many people, including rape victims, to deal with it.[/QUOTE]
I agree that trigger warnings are significant and that we need to be respectful about media that discusses rape, but Hotline Miami 2 isn't a work that suggests rape is a respectable act. It's seen as degrading to both the victim, and repulsive to the individual who condones it (i.e. the player, who willingly rapes the woman in the preview).
I agree that there needs to be a trigger warning on the product in order to make sure gamers know that the 2nd rendition might be upsetting. But I don't think that means we can never talk about rape or discuss its horrifying role within culture. Hotline Miami is not a game that you can take on lightly; it's a very serious game which is trying to portray the horrifying justification of violence within media.
I think this position has a little bit more weight.
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