[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857622]
if someone can be triggered by gore or violence, they will avoid all violent games
if someone can be triggered by rape, they need to know if rape is or is not in a game because again rape has been depicted in videogames all of maybe three times. it is not a genre, it is not something one should expect, it is vastly different from violence in the way people react to it and how it is presented in videogames.[/QUOTE]
I don't see why rape should be given privilege over everything else, a simple overview like the ESRB already has would suffice.
I mean really, should Katawa Shoujo have a disclaimer for literally everything it has (And causing people to get so depressed they might commit Suicide)? I really don't think it's necessary, people know what they're getting into when they play an M rated game.
rape is rape it doesn't matter how long it is depicted or how short it is. i don't see why you are trying to trivialize this like "it's only a LITTLE rape guys, come on!"
obviously the ESRB is a factor but explain to me exactly what is wrong with just saying, "hey, by the way, this game depicts rape, in case you are sensitive to that"
it is that simple.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857622]
if someone can be triggered by gore or violence, they will avoid all violent games
if someone can be triggered by rape, they need to know if rape is or is not in a game because again rape has been depicted in videogames all of maybe three times. it is not a genre, it is not something one should expect, it is vastly different from violence in the way people react to it and how it is presented in videogames.[/QUOTE]
As a game developer, why should that be my problem though? If people want to ignore the rating system and play a game with "sexual content" and I make a decision to put a rape scene in my project, I shouldn't have to cater to a minor but seemingly extremely vocal demographic.
Video games are a business and having that kind of banner on your box art isn't good for business. Video games are also a form of artistic expression and if I am going to be concerned with anything in my game, it'd probably be the over the top violence if anything but we rely on the rating systems to make sure unintended audiences do not get a hold of our games.
If PEGI and the ESRB want to make a "rape" classification, by all means they should do it but I feel that is falls under sexual content and violence and in the case of Hotline Miami 2, you should expect it to tackle some controversial subjects.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;41857663]I don't see why rape should be given privilege over everything else, a simple overview like the ESRB already has would suffice.
I mean really, should Katawa Shoujo have a disclaimer for literally everything it has (And causing people to get so depressed they might commit Suicide)? I really don't think it's necessary, people know what they're getting into when they play an M rated game.[/QUOTE]
iyou are missing my point entirely. re-read that post and see how rape is vastly different than "everything else"
i don't think a lot of you really understand what ptsd from rape really is.
one of my best friends was raped a year or two ago, and she freaks out occasionally. it's really scary when it happens.
i know facepunch laughs at this because they're a bunch of white dudes, but "triggering" is a real thing and we can't just tell many people, including rape victims, to deal with it.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857668]rape is rape it doesn't matter how long it is depicted or how short it is. i don't see why you are trying to trivialize this like "it's only a LITTLE rape guys, come on!"
obviously the ESRB is a factor but explain to me exactly what is wrong with just saying, "hey, by the way, this game depicts rape, in case you are sensitive to that"
it is that simple.[/QUOTE]
BECAUSE THATS WHAT ESRB IS THERE FOR PLEASE.
Why don't they also put in a little warning saying "Hey there's also abuse, violence, blood, guts, murder..."
Because that's what ESRB is there for, the devs don't need to think of something so trivial that is already handled.
i said this like 2 posts ago, but that "THERE ARE WORSE THINGS IN GAMES LIKE MURDER AND TORTURE" arguments are fucking dumb. what somebody may or may not find offensive is completely subjective.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857674]As a game developer, why should that be my problem though? If people want to ignore the rating system and play a game with "sexual content" and I make a decision to put a rape scene in my project, I shouldn't have to cater to a minor but seemingly extremely vocal demographic.
Video games are a business and having that kind of banner on your box art isn't good for business. Video games are also a form of artistic expression and if I am going to be concerned with anything in my game, it'd probably be the over the top violence if anything but we rely on the rating systems to make sure unintended audiences do not get a hold of our games.
If PEGI and the ESRB want to make a "rape" classification, by all means they should do it but I feel that is falls under sexual content and violence and in the case of Hotline Miami 2, you should expect it to tackle some controversial subjects.[/QUOTE]
ok, fine
if you are okay with triggering rape survivors and you do not care about those people, then fine, go ahead, don't put a little warning in front of your game that has no effect on the actual gameplay, or anything really, other than helping those people. good luck with that. enjoy your fucking "business"
by the way hotline miami isnt a retail game, it doesnt have a fucking box.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857668]rape is rape it doesn't matter how long it is depicted or how short it is. i don't see why you are trying to trivialize this like "it's only a LITTLE rape guys, come on!"
obviously the ESRB is a factor but explain to me exactly what is wrong with just saying, "hey, by the way, this game depicts rape, in case you are sensitive to that"
it is that simple.[/QUOTE]
nothing is wrong the esrb [URL=http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp#descriptors]literally already does this[/url]
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41857679]BECAUSE THATS WHAT ESRB IS THERE FOR PLEASE.
Why don't they also put in a little warning saying "Hey there's also abuse, violence, blood, guts, murder..."
Because that's what ESRB is there for, the devs don't need to think of something so trivial that is already handled.[/QUOTE]
rape is different from those things. you still don't get it.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857677]i don't think a lot of you really understand what ptsd from rape really is.
one of my best friends was raped a year or two ago, and she freaks out occasionally. it's really scary when it happens.
i know facepunch laughs at this because they're a bunch of white dudes, but "triggering" is a real thing and we can't just tell many people, including rape victims, to deal with it.[/QUOTE]
exactly
it is called being a good person and caring about people. triggering a rape survivor is not "trivial."
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857681]ok, fine
if you are okay with triggering rape survivors and you do not care about those people, then fine, go ahead, don't put a little warning in front of your game that has no effect on the actual gameplay, or anything really, other than helping those people. good luck with that. enjoy your fucking "business"
by the way hotline miami isnt a retail game, it doesnt have a fucking box.[/QUOTE]
I am completely dumbfounded and at this point I think you are trolling. Go to any single game review site, go to steam, go to almost any off-the-grid sight and you will still find the ESRB rating there SINCE ITS THE LAW.
[QUOTE=Anonymuzz;41857683]nothing is wrong the esrb [URL=http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp#descriptors]literally already does this[/url][/QUOTE]
okay
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857656]I don't think that murdering an entire airport with huge assault rifles is really shocking considering that the entire fucking game is about killing people with guns.
I'd agree with you if this was about somebody getting offended about rape in a videogame ENTIRELY about rape, but it's not. Not at all. Adding a disclaimer saying "This game includes shit like shooting guys, torture, RAPE, etc etc" wouldn't detract from the artist's original intent at all.[/QUOTE]
The game has that, it's called the PEGI/ESRB ratings. As content creators, we shouldn't have to code a screen that displays those warnings a second time. Like I said, it's really not our problem.
[quote]show me the rape scene in hotline miami. thanks[/quote]
While you don't see it happening, its pretty clear that they have the girl hooked on drugsand they're raping her. You're welcome.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857619]that's literally the one example ever.[/QUOTE]
Red Dead Redemption has a pretty out of nowhere rape scene as well.
[QUOTE=Anonymuzz;41857683]nothing is wrong the esrb [URL=http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp#descriptors]literally already does this[/url][/QUOTE]
[quote]Sexual Violence - Depictions of rape or other violent sexual acts[/quote]
the sexual violence rating applies to a lot of things, not just rape, just like all the other ESRB ratings.
they're just a catch-all to classify a game. i mean, if i looked at the back cover of hotline miami 2 i would just see "sexual violence" which doesn't necessarily imply that the game has rape in it.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41857692]I am completely dumbfounded and at this point I think you are trolling. Go to any single game review site, go to steam, go to almost any off-the-grid sight and you will still find the ESRB rating there SINCE ITS THE LAW.[/QUOTE]
wow you have completely missed the point here. i did not say anything esrb not being a digital games rofl
unbelievable
he said they dont want to put a warning "on the box" ie they dont want to put a warning saying there is rape the game on the box because it would be bad for business. that was his point. I was saying the game doesn't have a box, so that is a non-issue. just put it in the listing for the game in the description. its that simple. youre not going to lose sales for saying "this game has rape" besides those who would be triggered by that, and would thusly thank you for warning them
[img]http://puu.sh/43rth.png[/img]
Hey everyone I found the elusive sexual content ratings, where were they hiding all this time? Whats that? In my last 15 posts about ESRB ratings? Wow they sure are good at being in plain sight!
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;41857699]While you don't see it happening, its pretty clear that they have the girl hooked on drugsand they're raping her. You're welcome.
Red Dead Redemption has a pretty out of nowhere rape scene as well.[/QUOTE]
okay, you got me, there's two.
also again we are talking about depictions of rape. implied rape is bad enough, but in this game in particular, you actually see it happen.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857696]The game has that, it's called the PEGI/ESRB ratings. As content creators, we shouldn't have to code a screen that displays those warnings a second time. Like I said, it's really not our problem.[/QUOTE]
It is a problem and shouldn't be taken lightly, just because there's some catch-all rating system. Having a warning at the start of the game wouldn't detract from the artistic integrity at all. I mean, we have pre-game warnings about flashing lights inducing seizures, why not have a trigger warning at the start?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857703]the sexual violence rating applies to a lot of things, not just rape, just like all the other ESRB ratings.
they're just a catch-all to classify a game. i mean, if i looked at the back cover of hotline miami 2 i would just see "sexual violence" which doesn't necessarily imply that the game has rape in it.[/QUOTE]
It's there, if you are prone to such terrible fits of rape PTSD you'd have enough sense to think twice about getting the game.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857696]The game has that, it's called the PEGI/ESRB ratings. As content creators, we shouldn't have to code a screen that displays those warnings a second time. Like I said, it's really not our problem.[/QUOTE]
no one is fucking saying you have to. you sound like a 9/11 truther or some crazy shit. it's just a suggestion, it's just a fucking nice thing to do. if you don't want to be nice, if you don't care, then don't, but don't get mad when someone calls you out for not caring, because guess what? you didn't care!
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41857709][img]http://puu.sh/43rth.png[/img]
Hey everyone I found the elusive sexual content ratings, where were they hiding all this time? Whats that? In my last 15 posts about ESRB ratings? Wow they sure are good at being in plain sight![/QUOTE]
[I]OR[/I] other violent sexual acts. Not just rape. That's the issue.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41857718]It's there, if you are prone to such terrible fits of rape PTSD you'd have enough sense to think twice about getting the game.[/QUOTE]
yes you would, if it warned you rape was depicted in the game. again, you don't understand how PTSD works if you think there is a connection between general violence and rape.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857714]It is a problem and shouldn't be taken lightly, just because there's some catch-all rating system. Having a warning at the start of the game wouldn't detract from the artistic integrity at all. I mean, we have pre-game warnings about flashing lights inducing seizures, why not have a trigger warning at the start?[/QUOTE]
another fair point. I couldnt remember the warnings I had seen at the beginning of some games before, but this is it. yeah, some devs give huge warnings at the beginning of games for epilepsy. is rape not good enough?
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41857709][img]http://puu.sh/43rth.png[/img]
Hey everyone I found the elusive sexual content ratings, where were they hiding all this time? Whats that? In my last 15 posts about ESRB ratings? Wow they sure are good at being in plain sight![/QUOTE]
whats that? you're still missing the point? you still dont really care about giving a fair warning to rape survivors? whoa! if they don't read the esrb sub-descriptions they deserve to be triggered
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857714]It is a problem and shouldn't be taken lightly, just because there's some catch-all rating system. Having a warning at the start of the game wouldn't detract from the artistic integrity at all. I mean, we have pre-game warnings about flashing lights inducing seizures, why not have a trigger warning at the start?[/QUOTE]
So we should have trigger warnings at the beginning of everything? Books TV shows films games, everything that could possibly trigger something for ANYONE with a trauma that could be brought up? It'd be unfair to only do it for rape victims.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41857718]It's there, if you are prone to such terrible fits of rape PTSD you'd have enough sense to think twice about getting the game.[/QUOTE]
But how the fuck are they supposed to know if the game has rape in it if there isn't a clear warning indicating that?
Do you seriously expect rape victims to research each and every piece of media they consume to see if it has rape in it or not?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857721][I]OR[/I] other violent sexual acts. Not just rape. That's the issue.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857722]yes you would, if it warned you rape was depicted in the game. again, you don't understand how PTSD works if you think there is a connection between general violence and rape.[/QUOTE]
If you are prone to such a horrible thing as rape PTSD or seizures I'd imagine you wouldn't have too much of a problem skipping out on a piece of entertainment that poses a risk of causing a flashback.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857731]But how the fuck are they supposed to know if the game has rape in it if there isn't a clear warning indicating that?
Do you seriously expect rape victims to research each and every piece of media they consume to see if it has rape in it or not?[/QUOTE]
Yes. You guys are playing up rape PTSD a lot, yet you say something like this.
I'm not playing it down whatsoever, I'm just pointing out the steps are there to be taken appropriately.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857681]ok, fine
if you are okay with triggering rape survivors and you do not care about those people, then fine, go ahead, don't put a little warning in front of your game that has no effect on the actual gameplay, or anything really, other than helping those people. good luck with that. enjoy your fucking "business"
by the way hotline miami isnt a retail game, it doesnt have a fucking box.[/QUOTE]
Alright so what you want is a screen that pops up and says "this game has objectionable content" that plays every time the user opens up Hotline Miami 2. Most people know what they're getting into and those who don't should have read the easily visible ESRB classifications.
This would be an annoyance to the programmers, it'd be an annoyance to everyone else who doesn't care about being warned about "objectionable content". Why is it my job as a programmer and as a designer to "not trigger" rape survivors? An extremely small demographic of my users I may add. I did that when I sent my game in for classification through PEGI/ESRB and other rating boards, which are legally required and the ratings are made visible on box art, online look up databases, various gaming sites and all digital distribution sites.
Also, Hotline Miami has been rated and you'll see that anywhere
[img]http://i.imgur.com/99lN8yG.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;41857730]So we should have trigger warnings at the beginning of everything? Books TV shows films games, everything that could possibly trigger something for ANYONE with a trauma that could be brought up? It'd be unfair to only do it for rape victims.[/QUOTE]
nope just talkin about rape in videogames nice hyperbole though i respect that
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857741]nope just talkin about rape in videogames nice hyperbole though i respect that[/QUOTE]
Movies are unquestioningly a bigger media than videogames, and they're ratings are sometimes laughably bad.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857714]It is a problem and shouldn't be taken lightly, just because there's some catch-all rating system. Having a warning at the start of the game wouldn't detract from the artistic integrity at all. I mean, we have pre-game warnings about flashing lights inducing seizures, why not have a trigger warning at the start?[/QUOTE]
Because I am legally obligated to say "hey, my game could cause a seizure and if I don't warn you, you could sue me". I am not legally obligated to baby my customers and say "hey, for a second time around, this game has objectionable content." That isn't my job. They could attempt to sue me for some bullshit "mental distress" case but that'd be thrown out of courts immediately.
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