[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857738]Alright so what you want is a screen that pops up and says "this game has objectionable content" that plays every time the user opens up Hotline Miami 2. Most people know what they're getting into and those who don't should have read the easily visible ESRB classifications.
This would be an annoyance to the programmers, it'd be an annoyance to everyone else who doesn't care about being warned about "objectionable content". Why is it my job as a programmer and as a designer to "not trigger" rape survivors? An extremely small demographic of my users I may add. I did that when I sent my game in for classification through PEGI/ESRB and other rating boards, which are legally required and the ratings are made visible on box art, online look up databases, various gaming sites and all digital distribution sites.
Also, Hotline Miami has been rated and you'll see that anywhere
[img]http://i.imgur.com/99lN8yG.png[/img][/QUOTE]
its not your fucking job
its nice
dont want to be nice?
dont do it
and we are not talking about saying "questionable content"
we are talking about rape.
the way you put "trigger" in quotes as if it isn't even real blows my mind.
and agaaaaaaaaaaaain hotline miami doesnt have box art.
also look at hotline miami, which apparently "has a rape scene" yet sexual violence isnt listed there. how odd is that??
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857741]nope just talkin about rape in videogames nice hyperbole though i respect that[/QUOTE]
Are you dense or what? Why should specifically rape victims be warned in specifically videogames? This is a serious question, I'd like to see how you can justify it.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857752]Because I am legally obligated to say "hey, my game could cause a seizure and if I don't warn you, you could sue me". I am not legally obligated to baby my customers and say "hey, for a second time around, this game has objectionable content." That isn't my job. They could attempt to sue me for some bullshit "mental distress" case but that'd be thrown out of courts immediately.[/QUOTE]
look, STILL with the "obligated" still saying "I dont want to HAVE to do that"
well you're right buddy, you don't have to! no one is suing you!
what people are asking you to do however, is be thoughtful and considerate to rape survivors
but i can see that's a bit too much for you to handle. that's okay.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;41857757]Are you dense or what? Why should specifically rape victims be warned in specifically videogames? This is a serious question, I'd like to see how you can justify it.[/QUOTE]
again not reading my posts but i will still oblige you
[url]http://www.aaets.org/article178.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857752]Because I am legally obligated to say "hey, my game could cause a seizure and if I don't warn you, you could sue me". I am not legally obligated to [b]baby my customers and say "hey, for a second time around, this game has objectionable content."[/b] That isn't my job. They could attempt to sue me for some bullshit "mental distress" case but that'd be thrown out of courts immediately.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, we're talking about [I]RAPE.[/I] Where the fuck are you getting this "questionable content" thing? We're not talking about content that may or may not be offensive to somebody, we're talking about something that could potentially cause a flashback or a fit of PTSD.
We're not even talking about Hotline Miami [B]1[/B], either, we're talking about 2 which has a rape scene in it.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41857746]Movies are unquestioningly a bigger media than videogames, and they're ratings are sometimes laughably bad.[/QUOTE]
i already said you cant use "but other media doesnt do it!" as an excuse. it's a total cop-out. it's shifting the blame.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857722]
whats that? you're still missing the point? you still dont really care about giving a fair warning to rape survivors? whoa! if they don't read the esrb sub-descriptions they deserve to be triggered[/QUOTE]
I would argue that, yes. They weren't smart by not paying attention to the easily visible content descriptors and they're paying the price for it. I have no problem stating that for the record. I'm not going to go out of my way to appease a minor demographic meanwhile piss off all my users that don't care and just want to launch the game.
It's a poor design choice and that's why I'm not doing it. I'm not a bad person. It's not that I don't care. It's just that it's not in my job description.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857779]I would argue that, yes. They weren't smart by not paying attention to the easily visible content descriptors and they're paying the price for it. I have no problem stating that for the record. I'm not going to go out of my way to appease a minor demographic meanwhile piss off all my users that don't care and just want to launch the game.
It's a poor design choice and that's why I'm not doing it. I'm not a bad person. It's not that I don't care. It's just that it's not in my job description.[/QUOTE]
"i don't care about rape survivors" -what you just said
great.
god forbid we piss off some shitty nerds to stop some rape survivors from having traumatic flashbacks lol
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857761]
again not reading my posts but i will still oblige you
[url]http://www.aaets.org/article178.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
But there are other traumas that can be associated with PTSD, not just rape. So everyone should be warned about any potentially harmful images.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857779]I would argue that, yes. They weren't smart by not paying attention to the easily visible content descriptors and they're paying the price for it. I have no problem stating that for the record. I'm not going to go out of my way to appease a minor demographic meanwhile piss off all my users that don't care and just want to launch the game.
It's a poor design choice and that's why I'm not doing it. I'm not a bad person. It's not that I don't care. It's just that it's not in my job description.[/QUOTE]
How would having a 1 second block of text at the start of your game piss off ALL of your users? I mean, where the fuck are all of the forum posts arguing about seizure warnings at the start of Audiosurf or something?
i hate how valve babies all those colorblind people by adding a colorblind mode. fuck colorblind people. we don't need to appease them. having that small little option will totally piss off everyone else
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857754]also look at hotline miami, which apparently "has a rape scene" yet sexual violence isnt listed there. how odd is that??[/QUOTE]
Could you at least play the game before making arguments for your case that are invalid?
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;41857785]But there are other traumas that can be associated with PTSD, not just rape. So everyone should be warned about any potentially harmful images.[/QUOTE]
are you going to make an actual argument relevant to the subject or are you going to continue to hyperbolize everything we say in an attempt to make our argument look awful
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;41857785]But there are other traumas that can be associated with PTSD, not just rape. So everyone should be warned about any potentially harmful images.[/QUOTE]
again, this is what I'm saying about the difference between depictions of rape and violent videogames. if the premise of a game is "kill people" you know it will be violent. in that same game, there is no reason to expect there to be a rape scene. it's an exception. with war ptsd, you know you're going to be playing a war game. there are no games where you're just fucking around having a grand old time and then suddenly they drop you into a warzone and then go back to just playing around.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857779]I would argue that, yes. They weren't smart by not paying attention to the easily visible content descriptors and they're paying the price for it. I have no problem stating that for the record. I'm not going to go out of my way to appease a minor demographic meanwhile piss off all my users that don't care and just want to launch the game.
It's a poor design choice and that's why I'm not doing it. I'm not a bad person. It's not that I don't care. It's just that it's not in my job description.[/QUOTE]
"whoah what the fuck game developers considering the feelings of others!!!??? NOT ON MY MOTHERFUCKING WATCH"
these are not people who are worth pandering to
[QUOTE=kidwithsword;41857795]Could you at least play the game before making arguments for your case that are invalid?[/QUOTE]
it was another member arguing on "your side" which claimed there was a rape scene in hotline miami one (when it is only implied). i was being sarcastic.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857784]"i don't care about rape survivors" -what you just said
great.
god forbid we piss off some shitty nerds to stop some rape survivors from having traumatic flashbacks lol[/QUOTE]
How in the bloody fuck is that my problem? They ignored the content descriptions. They bought the game. I'm not their therapist. I'm not their friend. They're customers. I did my role in fulfilling my end of the bargain and delivered a polished, finalized game and I got currency in exchange for it.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857792]How would having a 1 second block of text at the start of your game piss off ALL of your users? I mean, where the fuck are all of the forum posts arguing about seizure warnings at the start of Audiosurf or something?[/QUOTE]
Personally I'm pretty annoyed when I have to sit through a mandatory screen every time I launch a game, no matter what it's for. Surely there are others out there.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857803]How in the bloody fuck is that my problem? They ignored the content descriptions. They bought the game. I'm not their therapist. I'm not their friend. They're customers. I did my role in fulfilling my end of the bargain and delivered a polished, finalized game and I got currency in exchange for it.[/QUOTE]
No, but you're the one creating the content for PEOPLE. If you treat PEOPLE like shit and blatantly fucking REFUSE to spend a handful of minutes making some text appear that says "THIS GAME HAS A RAPE SCENE" in it, then the blame is all on you.
Games are code and shit, not some sort of 4th dimensional object that is impossible to alter or modify after it's been released.
[QUOTE=Cone;41857801]"whoah what the fuck game developers considering the feelings of others!!!??? NOT ON MY MOTHERFUCKING WATCH"
these are not people who are worth pandering to[/QUOTE]
And neither are these "rape survivors" that care so much about being warned despite being warned [b]BEFORE[/b] purchasing the final product.
didnt say it was your problem
said it was being nice and thoughtful
dont want to be nice
dont do it
the fact you are annoyed you have to wait for a 2 second loading screen is very revealing. let's pander to people who "cant wait two seconds" instead of "rape survivors"
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857822]And neither are these "rape survivors" that care so much about being warned despite being warned [b]BEFORE[/b] purchasing the final product.[/QUOTE]
please note, viewers, that rape survivors is in air quotes in this post
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857803]How in the bloody fuck is that my problem? They ignored the content descriptions. They bought the game. I'm not their therapist. I'm not their friend. They're customers. I did my role in fulfilling my end of the bargain and delivered a polished, finalized game and I got currency in exchange for it.[/QUOTE]
you do realize that caring for profit over people means that you're an objectively bad person right
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857822]And neither are these "rape survivors" that care so much about being warned despite being warned [b]BEFORE[/b] purchasing the final product.[/QUOTE]
Where the fuck are these warnings? Is there some universal game-content broadcast system that I've been missing? Chances are Hotline Miami 2 will have a sexual violence rating posted on it, which doesn't explicitly mean RAPE.
and lol, putting rape survivors into quotations
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857818]No, but you're the one creating the content for PEOPLE. If you treat PEOPLE like shit and blatantly fucking REFUSE to spend a handful of minutes making some text appear that says "THIS GAME HAS A RAPE SCENE" in it, then the blame is all on you.
Games are code and shit, not some sort of 4th dimensional object that is impossible to alter or modify after it's been released.[/QUOTE]
I'd definite treating people like shit as coding a mandatory screen that plays every time the game launches warning the user "HEY IF YOU HAD A MOMENTARY CASE OF DYSLEXIA AND COULDN'T READ THE BOX/STEAM PAGE, MAYBE YOU CAN READ NOW, THERE IS A SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN THE GAME".
[QUOTE=Cone;41857827]you do realize that caring for profit over people means that you're an objectively bad person right[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/qQ1Qyr4.jpg[/img]
but im making money
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857833]I'd definite treating people like shit as coding a mandatory screen that plays every time the game launches warning the user "HEY IF YOU HAD A MOMENTARY CASE OF DYSLEXIA AND COULDN'T READ THE BOX/STEAM PAGE, MAYBE YOU CAN READ NOW, THERE IS A SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN THE GAME".[/QUOTE]
yeah those people would be soooo mad to see that they would ask for a refund
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41857798]are you going to make an actual argument relevant to the subject or are you going to continue to hyperbolize everything we say in an attempt to make our argument look awful[/QUOTE]
Look, I'm all for awareness, especially in videogames because as a medium I think it has grown a lot. My argument is, is that isn't it a bit out there for a developer of a game to, say before the intro have a statement that says "There is a scene of sexual violence in this game. Rape is a serious crime, if you have been raped contact your local authorities etc etc" but not for anything else? I THINK this is what Alex was trying to say but I'm not sure; the questionable content thing is kind of redundent in the since that this is exactly what the ESRB is for. Regardless of whether or not HL has a box or not you can search for the rating and content, plus I'm sure that Steam has the rating on the buy page as well. If anyone knows that they have a serious case of ptsd, I have to imagine that they regularly check content of any media regularly, especially a mature rated game. Yes, it coukd be done, there is not a huge reason not to, but if they don't I don't believe its because the developers are trying to hurt victims, I believe that they think the legally required warning would serve its purpose.
r/mra would have a field day!
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857833]I'd definite treating people like shit as coding a mandatory screen that plays every time the game launches warning the user "HEY IF YOU HAD A MOMENTARY CASE OF DYSLEXIA AND COULDN'T READ THE BOX/STEAM PAGE, MAYBE YOU CAN READ NOW, THERE IS A SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN THE GAME".[/QUOTE]
Find the store page for a game with rape in it. Show me where it says "This game has rape in it."
Then come back. Right now you're spewing out a whole lot of nothing.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41857837]
yeah those people would be soooo mad to see that they would ask for a refund[/QUOTE]
No, they wouldn't but it's my game and I know what pisses me off so I'm going to NOT do that.
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;41857847]Look, I'm all for awareness, especially in videogames because as a medium I think it has grown a lot. My argument is, is that isn't it a bit out there for a developer of a game to, say before the intro have a statement that says "There is a scene of sexual violence in this game. Rape is a serious crime, if you have been raped contact your local authorities etc etc" but not for anything else? I THINK this is what Alex was trying to say but I'm not sure; the questionable content thing is kind of redundent in the since that this is exactly what the ESRB is for. Regardless of whether or not HL has a box or not you can search for the rating and content, plus I'm sure that Steam has the rating on the buy page as well. If anyone knows that they have a serious case of ptsd, I have to imagine that they regularly check content of any media regularly, especially a mature rated game. Yes, it coukd be done, there is not a huge reason not to, but if they don't I don't believe its because the developers are trying to hurt victims, I believe that they think the legally required warning would serve its purpose.[/QUOTE]
again, rape is far different than most other forms of PTSD, and while it may be true that many rape survivors do check for that sort of thing, on the off chance that they didnt for whatever reason, it would not hurt. in fact, it would help. so why not. ALEX is saying "if they didnt check esrb, fuck them!" basically.
again with the box thing, he was saying "i dont want to put a warning on the box" like there is a physical retail box that says "RAPE!" or something on it that would decrease sales, which is absurd. I understand esrb ratings are on store pages for games sold online.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857862]No, they wouldn't but it's my game and I know what pisses me off so I'm going to NOT do that.[/QUOTE]
obviously your feelings are much more important than rape survivors, or people who know rape survivors, etc, who buy your game.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41857833]I'd definite treating people like shit as coding a mandatory screen that plays every time the game launches warning the user "HEY IF YOU HAD A MOMENTARY CASE OF DYSLEXIA AND COULDN'T READ THE BOX/STEAM PAGE, MAYBE YOU CAN READ NOW, THERE IS A SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN THE GAME".[/QUOTE]
i don't really see how you could be worried about this from your pure-profit point of view. Steam has no refund option unless you're so absolutely buttmad that you jump through a bunch of hoops, and there isn't going to be another Hotline Miami game so it's not like you lose credibility. and it's not like everyone who plays it is going to say "you shouldn't buy this game because of this warning" because we all know that it's going to be a fucking amazing game and nobody would give it up for such a minor thing.
by your own sense of morals you literally cannot lose by putting this warning in
can someone set me up to post some more screencaps of wall street
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cone;41857876]i don't really see how you could be worried about this from your pure-profit point of view. Steam has no refund option unless you're so absolutely buttmad that you jump through a bunch of hoops, and there isn't going to be another Hotline Miami game so it's not like you lose credibility. and it's not like everyone who plays it is going to say "you shouldn't buy this game because of this warning" because we all know that it's going to be a fucking amazing game and nobody would give it up for such a minor thing.
by your own sense of morals you literally cannot lose by putting this warning in[/QUOTE]
but it makes him mad! the irony here is he is offended by the mere idea of putting a warning in his game
maybe he should "get over it" lol
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