[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41858521]also i love how you backed off the 1/5 thing once i pointed out how stupid it was[/QUOTE]
i didnt "back off" it i didnt respond because it is a matter of semantics. i am not going to play a number games with you about how many women who play games that have been raped
Yeah, I read that post. It still doesn't prove anything. Vietnam and it's horrors have been made into video games. They don't have any warnings for Vietnam Veterans. Games have had burning buildings for ages, yet they don't have warnings for people who have been in fires or firefighters suffering from PTSD.
What. Is. Your. Point.
his point is apparently "you should find it in the good of your heart as a content creator to add extra splash screens for a minority because i feel like it"
[QUOTE=NuggetWarmer;41858530]Yeah, I read that post. It still doesn't prove anything. Vietnam and it's horrors have been made into video games. They don't have any warnings for Vietnam Veterans. Games have had burning buildings for ages, yet they don't have warnings for people who have been in fires or firefighters suffering from PTSD.
What. Is. Your. Point.[/QUOTE]
see, you didnt read my other posts! oh no! well, you have to read them all. here's the other post which provides context to the one i just screencapped and addresses your point.
"again, this is what I'm saying about the difference between depictions of rape and violent videogames. if the premise of a game is "kill people" you know it will be violent. in that same game, there is no reason to expect there to be a rape scene. it's an exception. with war ptsd, you know you're going to be playing a war game. there are no games where you're just fucking around having a grand old time and then suddenly they drop you into a warzone and then go back to just playing around."
fun fact: i reposted that same quote 2 pages back!
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41858533]his point is apparently "you should find it in the good of your heart as a content creator to add extra splash screens for a minority because i feel like it"[/QUOTE]
yep, that's pretty much it (not being sarcastic)
fun fact: if you do any level of research on your games (as in looking it up to see if it's a good game), then you'll know of things as heinous as rape in it!
notice that the first gameplay for hotline miami 2 shows off the rape! boy that was difficult!
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41858543]fun fact: if you do any level of research on your games (as in looking it up to see if it's a good game), then you'll know of things as heinous as rape in it!
notice that the first gameplay for hotline miami 2 shows off the rape! boy that was difficult![/QUOTE]
ive never bought a game without "researching" it, particulary in steam sales.
fun fact: i dont care about that point because all i am suggesting is regardless of what research should or should not be done by rape victims regarding the games they play, it would be nice to have a warning
i am suggesting that regardless of who's playing, they should be researching the games they decide to pick up. it would be nice to have an audience who actually belong playing the game
wait a second, I'm noticing something here...
my suggestions are already in place, while yours -aren't-
maybe there's a reason for that.
This discussion started off fairly interesting with both parts presenting equally valid points, but you're repeating the same arguments over and over.
I'd say drop the sarcasm-ridden holier-than-thou tone and use the shift key more and this would start being interesting again.
(I acknowledge that I know too little about this subject to make any sort of judgement)
VV wait what, i thought you said that wasn't enough? VV
what's this, I agree that they should research it? that's crazy! I've said that many times! at the same time, in case they don't, have a warning, maybe even just flash the esrb info real big on start up!
that's it!
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mikkelmann;41858583]This discussion started off fairly interesting with both parts presenting equally valid points, but you're repeating the same arguments over and over.
I'd say drop the sarcasm-ridden holier-than-thou tone and use the shift key more and this would start being interesting again.
(I acknowledge that I know too little about this subject to make any sort of judgement)[/QUOTE]
I am, without ANY use of the shift key (oops I just fucked up) repeating my points by literally quoting my old posts because people are literally refusing to read the thread. I would progress onwards if we could, but i dunno if that's gonna happen any time soon unfortunately.
Let's just keep the system we already have, seeing as it works flawlessly anyhow.
Like seriously that's the end of the conversation, sure it's sweet that you want extra splash screens but it's not worth the time, and that's said knowing that it'd take a minuscule amount of time to add.
[QUOTE=NuggetWarmer;41858530]Yeah, I read that post. It still doesn't prove anything. Vietnam and it's horrors have been made into video games. They don't have any warnings for Vietnam Veterans. Games have had burning buildings for ages, yet they don't have warnings for people who have been in fires or firefighters suffering from PTSD.
What. Is. Your. Point.[/QUOTE]
Games about the vietnam war would more than likely be named after the vietnam war and have many references to the vietnam war in promotions
[QUOTE=NuggetWarmer;41858482]Give me some solid proof other than your opinion as to why rape constitutes a secondary warning while everything else gets ignored. [/QUOTE]
Because there are a lot of rape victims (1/6 women acccording to this website, and that's not even counting male rape victims [url]http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims[/url]) and rape is a much less obvious trigger than something like war-related PTSD. There aren't very many games solely about rape, but there are plenty of games about war and killing people.
It mostly comes down to sexual assault-related PTSD being more common and less obvious than other kinds.
i don't think it works flawlessly.
you're literally saying it's not worth 2 minutes of the dev's time to add a warning that may stop say hundreds of people from being triggered due to RAPE PTSD. your priorities are very confusing, and I disagree with them.
like that is seriouslyyy the end of the convo!
I read the entire thread just now. Your opponents, vedicardi, seem to have read and understood your points quite well (at least most of them) and shifting the blame onto them seems unfair.
If you can show to me a few cases of triggers from rape in video games, then I'll be more keen on agreeing with you, but as it stands i can't even find one case
[QUOTE=Mikkelmann;41858621]I read the entire thread just now. Your opponents, vedicardi, seem to have understood your points quite well (at least most of them) and shifting the blame onto them seems unfair.[/QUOTE]
they seem to refuse reading my posts (as you'll notice). whenever I repost an old post, they are not responded to, or prompt me posting another quote, which is thusly not responded to. the only thing people seem to have against my suggestion that there be a warning is
1. it is not worth the time to add a screen to stop rape victims from suffering being triggered
2. those people deserve to be triggered because they didnt do proper research
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41858630]If you can show to me a few cases of triggers from rape in video games, then I'll be more keen on agreeing with you, but as it stands i can't even find one case[/QUOTE]
well that is because so few games have depictions of rape, if any... this is a new format for this sort of thing. on that point I doubt you can argue that a depiction of rape will not trigger a rape victim.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41858539]see, you didnt read my other posts! oh no! well, you have to read them all. here's the other post which provides context to the one i just screencapped and addresses your point.
"again, this is what I'm saying about the difference between depictions of rape and violent videogames. if the premise of a game is "kill people" you know it will be violent. in that same game, there is no reason to expect there to be a rape scene. it's an exception. with war ptsd, you know you're going to be playing a war game. there are no games where you're just fucking around having a grand old time and then suddenly they drop you into a warzone and then go back to just playing around."
fun fact: i reposted that same quote 2 pages back!
[/QUOTE]
I still don't see why that matters. I did read your post, it just doesn't make your opinion seem any more legitimate. Plenty of games surprise you with dramatic, and sometimes frightening twists and turns of events.
The premise of the game may be "kill people" but there's still a storyline, and if that storyline chooses to use rape as a plot device then so be it. You're the one making it stand out, not the developers.
[QUOTE]yep, that's pretty much it (not being sarcastic)[/QUOTE]
Then stop fucking posting because we all get it already. This is why people are saying you're trolling. You made your point, we made ours. Why do you continue to drag it on by repeating yourself?
of course excluding silent hill which had monster "rape" (idk if you say its rape since they are monsters but that aside) and games with off screen "implied" rape
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41858634]they seem to refuse reading my posts (as you'll notice). whenever I repost an old post, they are not responded to, or prompt me posting another quote, which is thusly not responded to. the only thing people seem to have against my suggestion that there be a warning is
1. it is not worth the time to add a screen to stop rape victims from suffering being triggered
2. those people deserve to be triggered because they didnt do proper research[/QUOTE]
haha point #2 is so far off it's not even funny.
the point is, it's not the developer's responsibility to cater to people who refuse to do any manner of research whatsoever, trying to say we said they "deserve to be triggered" is more of an attack than ANYTHING thats been thrown at you this thread
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41858634]
1. it is not worth the time to add a screen to stop rape victims from suffering being triggered
2. those people deserve to be triggered because they didnt do proper research[/QUOTE]
Essentially, your opponents points are thusly:
1. there are already warnings in place where needed
2. no one deserves to be triggered, yet the developers can't be blamed for the consumers lack of reading the warning
^^ Yeah, it's unfair to put the words "THEY DESERVED TO BE TRIGGERED" in people's mouths.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41858634]they seem to refuse reading my posts (as you'll notice). whenever I repost an old post, they are not responded to, or prompt me posting another quote, which is thusly not responded to. the only thing people seem to have against my suggestion that there be a warning is
1. it is not worth the time to add a screen to stop rape victims from suffering being triggered
2. those people deserve to be triggered because they didnt do proper research
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
well that is because so few games have depictions of rape, if any... this is a new format for this sort of thing. on that point I doubt you can argue that a depiction of rape will not trigger a rape victim.[/QUOTE]
I'm not doubting that, but if we don't have on-screen warnings about violence for war vets, we dont need rape warnings on-screen for rape victims.
Regardless of the main subject matter, the rating is equally as important as the title or the main theme, and when it says "Sexual Violence" that's your cue to not play the game
[QUOTE=NuggetWarmer;41858645]I still don't see why that matters. I did read your post, it just doesn't make your opinion seem any more legitimate. Plenty of games surprise you with dramatic, and sometimes frightening twists and turns of events.
The premise of the game may be "kill people" but there's still a storyline, and if that storyline chooses to use rape as a plot device then so be it. You're the one making it stand out, not the developers.
Then stop fucking posting because we all get it already. This is why people are saying you're trolling. You made your point, we made ours. Why do you continue to drag it on by repeating yourself?[/QUOTE]
are we not having a discussion? you respond to my posts so I respond to yours. even on my mere suggestion you disagree, so i articulate why i disagree with you. that's how it works
turns of events are far from depictions of rape, or that just is not a thing that happens. i cant think of many games where you are put into a larger situation that mirrors real life that is not at all obvious in content from the basis of the game.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41858661]I'm not doubting that, but if we don't have on-screen warnings about violence for war vets, we dont need rape warnings on-screen for rape victims.
Regardless of the main subject matter, the rating is equally as important as the title or the main theme, and when it says "Sexual Violence" that's your cue to not play the game[/QUOTE]
how did you miss my post about war vets? Again, for the 5th time, a war game is about war, and its super obvious just from looking at the box art. however, since rape is so rare in games, and hotline miami in all of its media never/hasnt mentioned rape, there would be no way to know it is in the game from a casual glance.
and there is the rating thing again. you should read the ratings. the warning is there as a precaution if you dont. and im being told im arguing the same points.
and i refuted your war vets post by saying "Regardless of the main subject matter, the rating is equally as important as the title or the main theme, and when it says "Sexual Violence" that's your cue to not play the game"
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
And one of the first and currently largest pieces of Hotline Miami 2 media depicts rape so idk what you're talking about
[QUOTE=Mikkelmann;41858650]Essentially, your opponents points are thusly:
1. there are already warnings in place where needed
2. no one deserves to be triggered, yet the developers can't be blamed for the consumers lack of reading the warning
^^ Yeah, it's unfair to put the words "THEY DESERVED TO BE TRIGGERED" in people's mouths.[/QUOTE]
so my points are
1. i think there should be an extra warning because it would be helpful and so on
2. i am not saying blame the devs, i am saying i think people would appreciate it if they added that extra warning in the case they missed the original warning
the refutes for those points are the same as the ones I posted above as far as i am aware
one of the earlier posters did indeed say that they deserve to be triggered, for the record
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41858691]and i refuted your war vets post by saying "Regardless of the main subject matter, the rating is equally as important as the title or the main theme, and when it says "Sexual Violence" that's your cue to not play the game"
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
And one of the first and currently largest pieces of Hotline Miami 2 media depicts rape so idk what you're talking about[/QUOTE]
the ratings, again, are irrelevant to the fact i think an extra warning should be added.
as far as that debut trailer is concerned, it is still not the overall aesthetic, it is just a short part of the trailer, and people could play it after seeing a different trailer, and when the game is discussed, most likely it will be the style of gameplay being discussed, not the content of the cutscenes.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41858700]so my points are
1. i think there should be an extra warning because it would be helpful and so on
2. i am not saying blame the devs, i am saying i think people would appreciate it if they added that extra warning in the case they missed the original warning
the refutes for those points are the same as the ones I posted above as far as i am aware
one of the earlier posters did indeed say that they deserve to be triggered, for the record
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
the ratings, again, are irrelevant to the fact i think an extra warning should be added.
as far as that debut trailer is concerned, it is still not the overall aesthetic, it is just a short part of the trailer, and people could play it after seeing a different trailer, and when the game is discussed, most likely it will be the style of gameplay being discussed, not the content of the cutscenes.[/QUOTE]
but you plainly said "and hotline miami in all of its media never/hasnt mentioned rape" and "those people deserve to be triggered because they didnt do proper research" and then when we bring up how wrong/retarded that is you just completely ignore it
anyone who thinks people deserve pain is an idiot
i was referring to text media (product descriptions, press), and more particularly referring to the first game and thus the "franchise's" overall image up to this very point, at which most people are aware that rape is in the game
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
ie someone buying hotline miami 2 after playing 1 without actually seeing the trailers for two, or only reading the product description for two (or maybe not even that), etc, would not be aware that it contains rape. like someone that beat hotline miami 1, loved it, and then only saw 2 when it was released, bought it right away, etc. i think there are plenty of situations where one would not expect rape to be in the game unless this really blows up.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
i am just talking about hypothetical here but I firmly believe, at this point in time, that there are plenty of hypothetical where one could by the game without being aware of there being rape in the game, not checking the ratings, particularly if they already played the first
well you're making a big mistake by purchasing a game cause "omg the first was good instant buy"
which is why im saying people need to get responsible with their purchases, if you have shit like that in your history especially.
Developers do not need to put a warning for a non-existent group of people, who have only been mentioned thus far as "what if someone played it and got triggered", and it doesn't matter if it's a good thing to do or not because it's not something a developer should have to worry about past what the ratings board says. Much like you said, there's not many games with rape so it's a new thing, but on the flip-side its new to developers too, which means they have no reason to anticipate that a new method of violence in their games will suddenly cause a big problem health wise
My head is spinning trying to understand how such a discussion could go beyond 7 pages when it could be summed up by
"there should be a warning about rape in the game"
"the ratings already do this, there's a sexual violence warning on the box"
"but it'd be nice you know"
"but it's already there look here"
"but it'd be nice you know"
"vedicardi go away"
Vedi, we get your point that it'd be nice to add an extra warning
it's not needed though since there are systems in place that allow a customer to look at a game's box and see whether or not it has sexual/violent/drugs/sexual violence in it at a glance - adding an extra warning when starting up the game is moronic
So you bought the game then start it up, see the warning and go "oh shit wait I don't actually want this"? In that case you fucked up as a customer by completely ignoring the systems in place and buying a product with no research into it
like i said, yes it's a decent idea in theory and it'd be nice, but as it stands it's a factor that literally has no reason to be looked at.
By looking at the fear of ptsd triggers, you're ignoring things that are equally as pressing in the industry such as "video games causing people cutting cigarettes to come back to them cause of the characters smoking" (aka a non-existent problem as of date)
i bought bioshock infinite without reading reviews, without checking press, without watching a single trailer, because i knew who made it and i trust them. same with company of heroes 2, guild wars 2, and red orchestra 2, and many more games. i dont think that was a mistake. that is ridiculous. i, personally, have never been screwed over doing that. i think that is a silly mindset
who exactly is this non-existant group? what? it is far safer to put the warning than to just go forward with it and let people get triggered. why would you take that risk? what is the gain?
the reason they should anticipate it causing harm to these victims causing a health issue is because it is a well known issue across all media and part of why most games avoid the topic at all
[QUOTE=SHITBULLET;41858785]My head is spinning trying to understand how such a discussion could go beyond 7 pages when it could be summed up by
"there should be a warning about rape in the game"
"the ratings already do this, there's a sexual violence warning on the box"
"but it'd be nice you know"
"but it's already there look here"
"but it'd be nice you know"
"vedicardi go away"
Vedi, we get your point that it'd be nice to add an extra warning
it's not needed though since there are systems in place that allow a customer to look at a game's box and see whether or not it has sexual/violent/drugs/sexual violence in it at a glance - adding an extra warning when starting up the game is moronic
So you bought the game then start it up, see the warning and go "oh shit wait I don't actually want this"? In that case you fucked up as a customer by completely ignoring the systems in place and buying a product with no research into it[/QUOTE]
Because Vedicardi will not shut the fuck up, and then will go something like "oh wow you told me to go away great job" and continue to shitpost.
[sp]Warning to Vedicardi: immediately saying it isn't clever.[/sp]
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