Super Bunnyhop - Main Quest Comparison: Skyrim & Morrowind - General

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;44642758]Was it bad of me to have made the first TES game I've played Skyrim? Don't get me wrong, it's fun, I'm just wondering if I should have started with one of the older games first.[/QUOTE] It can be tough to appreciate the older games if you played one of the newer titles first, but it's not impossible. I started playing Elder Scrolls games with Oblivion and went back to Morrowind after that. Didn't like it all that much at first because Morrowind's beginning is really slow and it can be tough to get much done with low level skills. But once I started gaining some traction in the game I found that I really liked it, to the point were Morrowind is still my favourite Elder Scrolls game so far. I'd say give it a shot, and don't be put off if it feels weird at first. Once you start being able to do things and the world opens up more to you, Morrowind really comes into its own.

[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;44642758]Was it bad of me to have made the first TES game I've played Skyrim? Don't get me wrong, it's fun, I'm just wondering if I should have started with one of the older games first.[/QUOTE] Naw, not at all. I agree with a lot of Bunnyhop's points, though I still REALLY enjoyed Skyrim a lot and I think it is still a pretty great game. The older games are great too, it just might be hard to get into them. Give yourself time to get used to them and you should be able to appreciate what they have to offer, plus there are tons of graphical overhauls to make it a bit better

Skyrim was better than Oblivion, just not in every aspect. But I much prefer playing Skyrim to oblivion, Oblivion has it's fair share of better elements, but I feel like it's remembered through some pretty rose tinted glasses.

[QUOTE=Kentz;44640136][URL]https://www.youtube.com/user/MrBtongue/videos[/URL] i like this guy infact he made an elder scrolls video too [video=youtube;4ZUynhkal1I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZUynhkal1I[/video][/QUOTE] Oh man MrBTongue is like crack for me. Shame he runs on Valve time though

[QUOTE=OutLawed Blade;44642686]Surely you've heard of Skywind then.[/QUOTE] Yes! I think I'm gonna start making things towards it! It's already looking fantastic. I'm only worried it'll never get finished because there have been mods like this since Morrowind.

[QUOTE=omarfr;44650393]Yes! I think I'm gonna start making things towards it! It's already looking fantastic. I'm only worried it'll never get finished because there have been mods like this since Morrowind.[/QUOTE] Optimistically Skywind has the best chance of being completed than all previous mods, because in comparison to them, Skywind isn't made by a closed team hiding their development progress, source and resources. In fact, they're doing the exact opposite, they're crowdsourcing so that whoever wants to help them progress in some way, simply can. Also I accidentally rated you clock, so I'll just change it to agree.

I'm going to quote myself from the comments section here: [quote]Personally, I can't be impressed by anything that Morrowind does better than Skyrim, because despite playing it a lot, I simply cannot get immersed in it. Skyrim might be the shallower of the two by far, but at least it's a serviceable facade. Morrowind plonks you in a world which looks like crap (though obviously I can't expect anything else, given its age), with NPCs that stand still and never utter a word, and say "alright, HAVE FUN!" In Skyrim I can walk up to an NPC and have a limited, but unique conversation. In Morrowind I can walk up to an NPC and have tomes worth of information, most of which is copy-pasted from every other NPC in the game. There's a golden MQ hidden in there, but the mountain of things wrong with the game do absolutely nothing to make me want to dig for it. The world just doesn't look interesting enough to justify exploring without a goal, the NPCs are infuriatingly blank, and the combat is awful. Is the writing fantastic? I'm sure it is; that's precisely why I'm waiting for Skywind to be finished. So I can actually enjoy said writing.•[/quote] Plus, a lot of his points were based either on "this doesn't mesh with how I play the Elder Scrolls games" (the sense of urgency), or "I preferred Morrowind, and Morrowind did it differently, ergo Skyrim did it wrong."

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44644207]Skyrim was better than Oblivion, just not in every aspect. But I much prefer playing Skyrim to oblivion, Oblivion has it's fair share of better elements, but I feel like it's remembered through some pretty rose tinted glasses.[/QUOTE] Oblivion had better quests. Maybe not story, but quests def. They were much more varied and unique compared to Skyrim which was almost endless dungeon crawling. Really want to play Morrowind now, I tried once but didn't get very far. Guess I just need to force myself through the beginning?

[QUOTE=Rastadogg;44653329]Oblivion had better quests. Maybe not story, but quests def. They were much more varied and unique compared to Skyrim which was almost endless dungeon crawling. Really want to play Morrowind now, I tried once but didn't get very far. Guess I just need to force myself through the beginning?[/QUOTE] I'd argue that Oblivion had better writing than Skyrim, but that's mostly an opinion. The quests were definitely better.

Oblivion had a much more interesting world I think. Each village and city had their own stories and unique flavours to them and you seemed to find that stuff everywhere. And the world seemed much larger, mainly I think because the environments felt so expansive and varied. Skyrim was either a plain or a mountain. it always felt like I was in the same areas. And you could tell they tried with each city having some sort of secret to it but many of them fell flat for me, because I didn't have enough choice in them. And sometimes I was forced to agree with one side even if I didn't. Could be my nostalgia glasses though.

[QUOTE=Brt5470;44653652]Oblivion had a much more interesting world I think. Each village and city had their own stories and unique flavours to them and you seemed to find that stuff everywhere. And the world seemed much larger, mainly I think because the environments felt so expansive and varied. Skyrim was either a plain or a mountain. it always felt like I was in the same areas. And you could tell they tried with each city having some sort of secret to it but many of them fell flat for me, because I didn't have enough choice in them. And sometimes I was forced to agree with one side even if I didn't. Could be my nostalgia glasses though.[/QUOTE] I honestly couldn't disagree more, the oblivion world was pretty at first sight but it was so repetative it was painful. Skyrim has massive mountains, plateaus, hot springs, a gigantic towering waterfall, and a frozen coastline as well as the forests, valleys, lakes, etc. Cyrodil was mostly just a straight forest. It was larger, sure, but the whole thing felt a bit copy pasted.

[QUOTE=Elspin;44654285]I honestly couldn't disagree more, the oblivion world was pretty at first sight but it was so repetative it was painful. Skyrim has massive mountains, plateaus, hot springs, a gigantic towering waterfall, and a frozen coastline as well as the forests, valleys, lakes, etc. Cyrodil was mostly just a straight forest. It was larger, sure, but the whole thing felt a bit copy pasted.[/QUOTE] It probably feels that way because it was procedural generated, while Skyrim's environment was handcrafted.

I think Morrowind still sticks with me as my favorite, but I would rank Skyrim a head above Oblivion. When it comes to talking Elder Scrolls with friends Morrowind always comes up has having the best and funniest individual stories from playthroughs. I remember my friend once told us of how he was chased by a Scamp halfway across the map because he didn't have a silver weapon to kill it, even when he went into towns it followed him, it reminded me of that quest from Oblivion with the scamp staff.

Skyrim had too many dungeons for my liking.

[QUOTE=Elspin;44654285]I honestly couldn't disagree more, the oblivion world was pretty at first sight but it was so repetative it was painful. Skyrim has massive mountains, plateaus, hot springs, a gigantic towering waterfall, and a frozen coastline as well as the forests, valleys, lakes, etc. Cyrodil was mostly just a straight forest. It was larger, sure, but the whole thing felt a bit copy pasted.[/QUOTE] I honestly thought that Skyrim's landscape was just as boring as Cyrodiil. While it did have potential I honestly thought that it was ruined because of Bethesda's choice of bland texture palettes and lighting.

I'm pretty bad at playing Morrowind. Don't get me wrong, the game is fantastic and does so many things right. But every time I start the game I feel so weak and I often get murdered just outside the starting town by a random thief. I never really got how to progress in that game reliably.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44661084]I'm pretty bad at playing Morrowind. Don't get me wrong, the game is fantastic and does so many things right. But every time I start the game I feel so weak and I often get murdered just outside the starting town by a random thief. I never really got how to progress in that game reliably.[/QUOTE] Go to Balmora and finish all the quests for whatever guild you're into. By the time you finish you should have enough equipment and skills to get by.

[QUOTE=Elspin;44654285]I honestly couldn't disagree more, the oblivion world was pretty at first sight but it was so repetative it was painful. Skyrim has massive mountains, plateaus, hot springs, a gigantic towering waterfall, and a frozen coastline as well as the forests, valleys, lakes, etc. Cyrodil was mostly just a straight forest. It was larger, sure, but the whole thing felt a bit copy pasted.[/QUOTE] I know the forests in oblivion are basically copy pasted, and loads of the terrain is basically the same but... every time I see a screenshot, I just think, "this is home"

[QUOTE=Explosions;44661134]Go to Balmora and finish all the quests for whatever guild you're into. By the time you finish you should have enough equipment and skills to get by.[/QUOTE] See, this is what always gets me. I want to play the MQ, but I can't without being made to do questlines which I have zero interest in.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44661504]See, this is what always gets me. I want to play the MQ, but I can't without being made to do questlines which I have zero interest in.[/QUOTE] because no rpg ever requires you to level with sidequests.

[QUOTE=Elspin;44654285]I honestly couldn't disagree more, the oblivion world was pretty at first sight but it was so repetative it was painful. Skyrim has massive mountains, plateaus, hot springs, a gigantic towering waterfall, and a frozen coastline as well as the forests, valleys, lakes, etc. Cyrodil was mostly just a straight forest. It was larger, sure, but the whole thing felt a bit copy pasted.[/QUOTE] I felt that the differences between the Cyrodiilic regions were noticeable enough, but not too different to be jarring. For example, the Colovian Highlands (west) were rolling grassy hills while the Nibenay Basin (east) was craggy and mountainous. I do think that the map as a whole was very plain because of a lack of detail, but I thought the subtle differences kept it varied yet consistent. Not to mention that I think Cyrodiil has one of the most warm, welcoming aesthetics compared to any other region.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;44661830]because no rpg ever requires you to level with sidequests.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it isn't common, even pokemon does it, just that I think it's fucking stupid. "Fate of the world's at stake!" "Okay, let me just spend a month grinding through literally everything else in the world." In terms of story/lore/whatever, it makes more sense for Morrowind than for Skyrim or Oblivion, because in the latter two you have hell/the apocalypse breathing down your neck constantly. There's zero gameplay justification, though.

Honestly, I never really got all that invested in Morrowind's main quest. You get an object that unambiguosly identifies you as the Nerevarine but then have to go though a lot of everyone using you for their odd jobs just for them to say "yes now we say you can do the the thing" and all I wanted to do was shove Moon-and-Star up their arses. Plus I found travelling a pain since I could never bloody find anything, the world is not as filled as some would lead you to believe. And even side quests were difficult to find, let alone follow though. The only ones I could find were ones where a guy stops you on a road to tell you about something another 6 steps along the path. And I could never get over the lack of NPC scheduals. I don't see why people call the main quest to Morrowind intelligent at all. If I ever play the game again, I'm probably just going to kill Vivec and take the fast path.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44662083]I didn't say it isn't common, even pokemon does it, just that I think it's fucking stupid. "Fate of the world's at stake!" "Okay, let me just spend a month grinding through literally everything else in the world." In terms of story/lore/whatever, it makes more sense for Morrowind than for Skyrim or Oblivion, because in the latter two you have hell/the apocalypse breathing down your neck constantly. [B]There's zero gameplay justification, though.[/B][/QUOTE] what, having to level in an rpg isn't gameplay justification, what do you even mean. I get that morrowind is flawed but this isn't one of them.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;44662817]what, having to level in an rpg isn't gameplay justification, what do you even mean. I get that morrowind is flawed but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] There's no gameplay justification for preventing a player from continuing with the main quest at whatever pace they want. I should be able to plough through the entire thing fresh off the boat, using the equipment and skills that I pick up along the way; not get part way through and be told "sorry, you can't carry on with the thing you're interested in, go do something else for a while". This is ultimately going to come down to a level scaling argument, and for the record, I think that scaling is a good thing.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44661504]See, this is what always gets me. I want to play the MQ, but I can't without being made to do questlines which I have zero interest in.[/QUOTE] 1. If you just play through all the first quests for, say, the Fighter's Guild in Balmora, you don't even begin to engage in the Fighter's Guild main story. It's basically just doing some jobs for some quick cash and to gain some skills and equipment while you're at it. 2. That was merely a suggestion. There are a plethora of ways to gain experience and level up in Morrowind. For example, there are close to a dozen caves, tombs, and mines on the path from Seyda Neen to Balmora alone. Simply exploring them and clearing them out can get you off to a good start. You could also just hop around on the Silt Strider to various different towns and look for work there, without having to join any faction at all. It's not as clear cut as you make it seem. 3. The MQ of Morrowind is supposed to be challenging and only an experienced and well equipped character will be able to complete it normally. The game is made in a way that supports branching out and exploring the world for opportunities before you dive straight into the MQ. Even Caius Cosades tell you to do some freelance work or guild work to "build your cover story" and to gain some experience. Regardless, the first few parts of the MQ an be done with relative ease, so complaining about how it's hard to get into simply doesn't make much sense. [QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44662083]I didn't say it isn't common, even pokemon does it, just that I think it's fucking stupid. "Fate of the world's at stake!" "Okay, let me just spend a month grinding through literally everything else in the world." In terms of story/lore/whatever, it makes more sense for Morrowind than for Skyrim or Oblivion, because in the latter two you have hell/the apocalypse breathing down your neck constantly. There's zero gameplay justification, though.[/QUOTE] Morrowind is simply built differently than both Oblivion and Skyrim. The threat becomes more clear and present as you progress through the MQ. And, as I said, you simply don't have to "spend a month grinding" in order to get started. Even in Oblivion, the MQ didn't start breathing down your neck until you delivered the Amulet, as literally nothing actually happened because of the Emperor's death. Oblivion Gates don't even start opening until you deliver the amulet. Honestly, if you haven't even played the Morrowind MQ yet then you shouldn't be talking about it. Finish it first, then make your judgment. [QUOTE=DiscoInferno;44662229]Honestly, I never really got all that invested in Morrowind's main quest. You get an object that unambiguosly identifies you as the Nerevarine but then have to go though a lot of everyone using you for their odd jobs just for them to say "yes now we say you can do the the thing" and all I wanted to do was shove Moon-and-Star up their arses. Plus I found travelling a pain since I could never bloody find anything, the world is not as filled as some would lead you to believe. And even side quests were difficult to find, let alone follow though. The only ones I could find were ones where a guy stops you on a road to tell you about something another 6 steps along the path. And I could never get over the lack of NPC scheduals. I don't see why people call the main quest to Morrowind intelligent at all. If I ever play the game again, I'm probably just going to kill Vivec and take the fast path.[/QUOTE] You are never "unambiguously" identified. The legends surrounding Moon-and-Star are just as ambiguous as the rest of the prophecy. That's part of the fun of the story. And calling the steps of fulfilling the prophecy "odd jobs" is a bit odd, especially when you compare it to the shit you have to do in Skyrim to complete the MQ. The confusion of finding your way around the map is a legitimate complaint. Many people love the difficulty of travel, while many despise it. It personally never had as much difficulty finding my way around as other people claim, but there are some legitimately broken directions in the game and lots of the locations are so well hidden that I only find them because I remember them from other playthroughs. It's a bit of an opinion really.

I'm playing Morrowind through now (attempted to several times but always got distracted by sidequests/caves then put the game down before, trying to stick with it this time) and the only thing really irking me is the quest journal. is there some mod to help with that? Note I'm already playing with Morrowind Overhaul 3.0. -wait nevermind saw what was hiding behind "options" in the journal

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44663027]There's no gameplay justification for preventing a player from continuing with the main quest at whatever pace they want. I should be able to plough through the entire thing fresh off the boat, using the equipment and skills that I pick up along the way; not get part way through and be told "sorry, you can't carry on with the thing you're interested in, go do something else for a while". This is ultimately going to come down to a level scaling argument, and for the record, I think that scaling is a good thing.[/QUOTE] Level scaling is fucking shit in an rpg, know why? Cause you never feel like you GET STRONGER, in Morrowind you start out as a shit dude with nos skills, then by the end, you're a goddamn demigod covered in magic items, one shotting normal bandits and fighting ACTUAL GODS on even footing. and not being able to progress in the MQ cause you're underequiped IS a GAMEPLAY JUSTIFICATION, cause leveling is GAMEPLAY, oldschool rpgs just don't let you plough though them, it's not an fps.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44663119]1. If you just play through all the first quests for, say, the Fighter's Guild in Balmora, you don't even begin to engage in the Fighter's Guild main story. It's basically just doing some jobs for some quick cash and to gain some skills and equipment while you're at it. 2. That was merely a suggestion. There are a plethora of ways to gain experience and level up in Morrowind. For example, there are close to a dozen caves, tombs, and mines on the path from Seyda Neen to Balmora alone. Simply exploring them and clearing them out can get you off to a good start. You could also just hop around on the Silt Strider to various different towns and look for work there, without having to join any faction at all. It's not as clear cut as you make it seem. 3. The MQ of Morrowind is supposed to be challenging and only an experienced and well equipped character will be able to complete it normally. The game is made in a way that supports branching out and exploring the world for opportunities before you dive straight into the MQ. Even Caius Cosades tell you to do some freelance work or guild work to "build your cover story" and to gain some experience. Regardless, the first few parts of the MQ an be done with relative ease, so complaining about how it's hard to get into simply doesn't make much sense.[/quote] It's still all barring the MQ from the player unless they spend time doing other things. Yes, you can go for a while without running into major problems, but you will eventually. It does support branching out and exploring and doing as you please in all but one way, doing the MQ, which is the only thing I have any interest in. Whenever I start Morrowind up, I always quit around the time Caius tells me to gain some experience because I just don't find the world interesting in the slightest; it's all 100 shades of grey with low poly monsters that are more annoying that anything else, the dungeons are straight up mazes, and the directions given by NPCs may as well be map that's by put through a meat grinder. [QUOTE=Explosions;44663119]Morrowind is simply built differently than both Oblivion and Skyrim. The threat becomes more clear and present as you progress through the MQ. And, as I said, you simply don't have to "spend a month grinding" in order to get started. Even in Oblivion, the MQ didn't start breathing down your neck until you delivered the Amulet, as literally nothing actually happened because of the Emperor's death. Oblivion Gates don't even start opening until you deliver the amulet. Honestly, if you haven't even played the Morrowind MQ yet then you shouldn't be talking about it. Finish it first, then make your judgment.[/quote] In Oblivion, the Emperor pleads you to take the amulet to Jauffre straight away. The world doesn't start falling to pieces around your ear right away, but that's still a pretty big "HEY, DO THE MQ" sign. Plus, I'm not commenting on Morrowind's MQ in any way other than the bits which I have direct experience of, the start. Everything else I my saying [I]why [/I]I've not gotten any further. As I said in the youtube comment I quoted earlier in the thread, I acknowledge that Morrowind has its strengths over Oblivion and Skyrim, namely its writing. It's just that the writing means nothing when it's hidden behind a cover that does nothing to make me actually want to get to it. Had Morrowind been built with level scaling, or some other way of letting the player blitz through the MQ, I'd probably have played it a million times and rank it as one of the best games I've ever played. But it doesn't and I don't. [editline]28th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;44663549]Level scaling is fucking shit in an rpg, know why? Cause you never feel like you GET STRONGER, in Morrowind you start out as a shit dude with nos skills, then by the end, you're a goddamn demigod covered in magic items, one shotting normal bandits and fighting ACTUAL GODS on even footing. and not being able to progress in the MQ cause you're underequiped IS a GAMEPLAY JUSTIFICATION, cause leveling is GAMEPLAY, oldschool rpgs just don't let you plough though them, it's not an fps.[/QUOTE] Well, guess what? I don't care about feeling as though I'm getting stronger, especially not when it's at the detriment to letting me through the actual game. Grinding for levels is gameplay in the same way that shitting is life; it is, but it's sure as fuck not what you signed up for.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44663594] Well, guess what? I don't care about feeling as though I'm getting stronger, especially not when it's at the detriment to letting me through the actual game. Grinding for levels is gameplay in the same way that shitting is life; it is, but it's sure as fuck not what you signed up for.[/QUOTE] I never, EVER, grinded for levels in Morrowind, maybe you should stop trying to bullrush the ending like a suicidal manic and you wouldn't be underleveled. by the time I made it to balmora I had done a ton of sidequests, then i didn't even report to caius cosades right away. And seriously what's the point of playing an rpg if you don't want to see character progression go play halo or something if you don't want sidequests or character progression. [editline]27th April 2014[/editline] Morrowind even tells you you're not ready for the quests, and you don't even have a ticking clock plotline, it wants you to do sidequests, not wanting to is your problem not the games.