A feminist said WHAT? - General

[QUOTE=Valnar;44304948]You realize that the context of the 'ban bossy' campaign is for school children right? Like they aren't trying to get the word literally banned right?[/QUOTE] I know this discussion has been had before, but you really shouldn't make your message one thing that's totally different from what you want to get across as a point and expect people to get it and then alienate them when they don't.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44304958]It doesn't matter, what the video, its ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Yeah it kind of does matter what the context is. They are trying to get children to be a bit more understanding of girls being in leadership roles. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44304961]I know this discussion has been had before, but you really shouldn't make your message one thing that's totally different from what you want to get across as a point and expect people to get it and then alienate them when they don't.[/QUOTE] They are trying to 'ban' the word amongst school children. Hence why they talk about children in middle school and why the other video as part of their campaign is 100% starred by children. but if we want to continue this discussion its probably better in PMs or something like that.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44304958]It doesn't matter, watch the video, its ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Context [b]always[/b] matters.

[QUOTE=Valnar;44304969]Yeah it kind of does matter what the context is. They are trying to get children to be a bit more understanding of girls being in leadership roles. They are trying to get 'ban' the word amongst school children.[/QUOTE] This is the most stupidest way to go about it. This is sexist towards women by trying to Infantise them like if they're called bossy when they're at a young age, that's it, women are so emotionally weak that they can't handle the word bossy

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44304907]He made really good points in his other video biotruths[/QUOTE] I love the entirely out of context, unsourced brain pictures with the point that male and female brains are "different". I mean, I looked up the study and it's actually a legitimate peer reviewed study but it has nothing to do with leadership so I have no idea why he used it unless he just wanted scientific looking brain pictures in his feminism rant :v:

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44305016]I love the entirely out of context, unsourced brain pictures with the point that male and female brains are "different". I mean, I looked up the study and it's actually a legitimate peer reviewed study but it has nothing to do with leadership so I have no idea why he used it unless he just wanted scientific looking brain pictures in his feminism rant :v:[/QUOTE] He was talking about Sexual dimorphism and behavioral dimorphism

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305006]This is the most stupidest way to go about it. This is sexist towards women by trying to Infantise them like if they're called bossy when they're at a young age, that's it, women are so emotionally weak that they can't handle the word bossy[/QUOTE] Its not just about the word bossy, its about the general idea that young girls are generally discouraged from being leaders while boys are generally encouraged to be. They aren't saying that being called bossy once ever will ruin a girl, they are saying that the general atmosphere is discouraging.

[QUOTE=Valnar;44305038]Its not just about the word bossy, its about the general idea that young girls are generally discouraged from being leaders while boys are generally encouraged to be. They aren't saying that being called bossy once ever will ruin a girl, they are saying that the general atmosphere is discouraging.[/QUOTE] That is ridiculous, women had to be bossy to get where they are now. Instead of banning bossy they need to embrace it.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305033]He was talking about Sexual dimorphism and behavioral dimorphism[/QUOTE] Yeah and the pictures he lazily ripped from the study he referenced had, again, nothing to do with concepts of leadership or assertiveness. It was how male and female brains work out problems differently. [QUOTE=Quark:;44304675]I don't see how anything he said was wrong or misleading, so unless you just don't like his voice then you have no real reason to attack his video, you're just attacking him as a person, which isn't cool either. I guess there's a new bandwagon of people thinking feminism is the new [I]"thing"[/I] because it's provocative or whatever. If you believe in equality for all people, you're an egalitarian and not a feminist. They're two separate entities.[/QUOTE] For what it's worth I thought he was a lazy "content" creator before he even started whining about feminism and mostly talked about atheism. Just never saw the appeal.

[QUOTE=Valnar;44304785]I'm not standing up for it though? I'm just pointing out one reason why people would dislike thunderf00t.[/QUOTE] The people that dislike thunderf00t solely because of his view on social issues are in the minority tho. [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;44305094]Yeah and the pictures he lazily ripped from the study he referenced had, again, nothing to do with concepts of leadership or assertiveness. It was how male and female brains work out problems differently. For what it's worth I thought he was a lazy "content" creator before he even started whining about feminism and mostly talked about atheism. Just never saw the appeal.[/QUOTE] I'll take sexual-dimorphism and behavioral-dimorphism over bossy.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305098]The people that dislike thunderf00t solely because of his view on social issues are in the minority tho.[/QUOTE] I was saying that one reason to dislike him was, according to that freethought blog post, because of how he broke people's privacy and then tried to do it again a few more times after he was locked out. What does that have to do with his view on social issues?

[QUOTE=Valnar;44305175]I was saying that one reason to dislike him was, according to that freethought blog post, because of how he broke people's privacy and then tried to do it again a few more times after he was locked out. What does that have to do with his view on social issues?[/QUOTE] You think most people that dislike him do because he hacked/social engineered his way back in?

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305191]You think most people that dislike him do because he hacked/social engineered his way back in?[/QUOTE] I never said anything about if that was why most people disliked him. I was originally responding to Ranger. [QUOTE=Rangergxi;44304458]Whats so bad about the guy? Besides you disagreeing with him.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305098] I'll take sexual-dimorphism and behavioral-dimorphism over bossy.[/QUOTE] But he didn't prove his point at all and you are just willing to accept his explanation.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44305224]But he didn't prove his point at all and you are just willing to accept his explanation.[/QUOTE] Their reasoning for why women choose different careers is ridiculous. Thunderf00t doesn't talk out of his ass, he likes science and respects the scientific method, I'm sure there's a connection to leadership and sexual/behavioral dimorphism. Even if he didn't go in-depth about it's sure is better than "bossy". But yeah, he didn't prove it.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305267]Their reasoning for why women choose different careers is ridiculous. Thunderf00t doesn't talk out of his ass, he likes science and respects the scientific method, I'm sure there's a connection to leadership and sexual/behavioral dimorphism. Even if he didn't go in-depth about it's sure is better than "bossy". But yeah, he didn't prove it.[/QUOTE] Except their reasoning for why girls are less likely to be leaders is that they are treated differently than boy leaders. You're criticizing their entire stance when you won't even get past their slogan.

[QUOTE=Valnar;44305299]Except their reasoning for why girls are less likely to be leaders is that they are treated differently than boy leaders. You're criticizing their entire stance when you won't even get past their slogan.[/QUOTE] Their slogan is retarded and misleading, and where did they prove this? Using feminist "studies"?

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305267] Thunderf00t doesn't talk out of his ass, he likes science and respects the scientific method[/QUOTE] He deliberately posts pictures from studies out of context to prove his point and hope people (you) would overlook it, which you did. How is that scientific at all? You've been had. [QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305267] I'm sure there's a connection to leadership and sexual/behavioral dimorphism.[/QUOTE] Then prove it.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44305341]He deliberately links studies out of context to prove his point and hope people (you) would overlook it, which you did. You've been had. Then prove it.[/QUOTE] To prove it, I would need to recreate the study and verify the results. and he didn't link to anything, he didn't go-in depth about it. When He tries to prove something, he links stuff in the description. He wasn't proving that it's linked to sexual/behavioral dimorphism, he was explaining why the whole bossy thing is ridiculous, and he managed to do it without proving anything.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305384] He wasn't proving that it's linked to sexual/behavioral dimorphism, he was explaining why the whole bossy thing is ridiculous, and he managed to do it without proving anything.[/QUOTE] [B] Science. [/B]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;44304234]imagine spending all your time trying to find new ways to rag on feminism and make bad videos about it imagine being that guy lmao[/QUOTE] He doesn't do this all the time, he does this strictly in his spare time, he does full-time research. He was actually saying that he would stop because he couldn't justify making more of them. That is why he started a patreon. [IMG]http://puu.sh/7Dm7E/c2d38eebd5.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305511]He doesn't do this all the time, he does this strictly in his spare time, he does full-time research.[/QUOTE] It's embarrassingly lazy and unethical for someone who does "full-time research" to reference a study out of context and without sources to back it up to try and prove his point about sexual or behavioral dimorphism. I still want to see proof of how behavioral dimorphism is a possible explanation for why women find themselves in fewer leadership roles, as he implied in his video. [editline]20th March 2014[/editline] really I'm kind of disappointed that someone with a PHD takes such a lazy approach to his content on Youtube.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44305619]It's embarrassingly lazy and unethical for someone who does "full-time research" to reference a study out of context and without sources to back it up to try and prove his point about sexual or behavioral dimorphism. I still want to see proof of how behavioral dimorphism is a possible explanation for why women find themselves in fewer leadership roles, as he implied in his video. [editline]20th March 2014[/editline] really I'm kind of disappointed that someone with a PHD takes such a lazy approach to his content on Youtube.[/QUOTE] Well I'm also disappointed, I would've loved a full refutation video.

[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305055]That is ridiculous, women had to be bossy to get where they are now. Instead of banning bossy they need to embrace it.[/QUOTE] That's not the point of the campaign. The point of the campaign is to point out a double standard in leadership with regards to gender. When a man or boy assumes a leadership role, he is often viewed as responsible, initiative taking, a leader, etc. When a woman or girl does, she's often derided as "bossy", "bitchy" etc. The idea is to challenge these ideas in children, when they're in their formative years and open to seeing their female peers in leadership roles. They are "embracing bossy" in this extent, rejecting gender roles at the same time. As for the name "Ban Bossy" being nonindicative, taking issue with the name "Ban Bossy" is like taking issue with a black pride group just because they have "pride" in their name. If you only look at the name, you're just judging a book by its cover and dismissing everything else. True, it does kind of suck that the name doesn't match the purpose, but I guess alliterative appeal aids activism awareness. [editline]20th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305511] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7Dm7E/c2d38eebd5.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Honestly if you don't think that societal pressure (say, perhaps, the gender roles that have been drilled into you as a child, where you learned that any woman or girl who assumes a leadership role is "bossy" rather than confident) can have an effect on the choices that people make then I don't know what to say to you.

First off, I like how in the beginning of the video he makes fun of women for getting upset about rape threats and abuse, then later on goes "what, your saying something is worse than rape threats and abuse over the internet? Are you crazy!?" It just really sets the tone for his... intellectual dishonesty? Cognitive dissonance? Hypocrisy? To be honest, the right words aren't coming to me right now. Second: he doesn't show her reasoning for why she said it. Start [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8YSwB8AvWs&t=1m34s]here[/url] for when she starts that topic and [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8YSwB8AvWs&t=2m14s]here[/url] to cut to right after she makes that statement he shows. She's comparing rape threats thrown around online (which you should know are a dime a dozen) to people telling her to stop talking about her harassment. She's comparing trolls to well-meaning people who don't think feminism is worth the time. She's comparing people who make rape threats to people telling her to shut up about rape threats. Furthermore, I would think she would know a bit more about rape threats than Thunderfoot would, given how part of her video is talking about how many she gets. But yeah, Thunderfoot is obviously a great scientist who always tells the whole story and would never leave important things out! Third: "She went on to claim that it was a joke!" Well no shit it's a joke! But no, Thunderfoot, it's not a joke at the expense of "every single male atheist in the audience". It's a joke at the expense of TAA and Thunderfoot and the like, mostly the ones that actually call guys "manginas". Hmm, I wonder what would motivate him to play up this joke as worse than it is. Certainly not the fact that he's the target! Also, the number of likes and dislikes for a video aren't the same as the number of people getting a joke. Four: I don't have much to say about 23andMe, I don't know enough about it and I don't feel like researching that much just for this response. So he may be right about her falling for a scam, he might not be. That's not important right now. And it doesn't have anything to do with feminism, either. Five: But do you know what's hilarious? He makes a huge fuss about her "choosing pretty much the only cell without DNA": basically for looking for a quick thing to look cool without checking her facts. Then he sources a quote saying "The enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge", by Stephen Hawking. [i]But the quote itself isn't actually from Stephen Hawking, but is in fact [B]him looking for a quick thing to look smart and witty but not checking his facts[/B][/I]. At least with hers she was just looking for a graphic of blood, but he's trying to make an actual point about "the illusion of knowledge". [QUOTE=Shreddinger;44305511]He doesn't do this all the time, he does this strictly in his spare time, he does full-time research. He was actually saying that he would stop because he couldn't justify making more of them. That is why he started a patreon. [IMG]http://puu.sh/7Dm7E/c2d38eebd5.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Last or First;44258690]Oh my god seriously? It's not just being called one word. It's being called one word [I]hundreds of times[/I]. Also, it's not that bossy only affects women, it's that [I]women are the only ones called bossy[/I]. I mean, men are called bossy too, but not nearly as often as women. So I mean they're not the [I]only[/I] ones to be [I]exact[/I] but if you were going to throw a fit over that rather than actual points then you may as well shut your computer off right now and go read a book. And of course he brought up and completely misunderstood that 'elevator coffee' thing. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKHwduG1Frk&t=4m30s]Watch to understand what really happened.[/url] Besides him making "feminism poisons everything" videos and misrepresenting people like Rebecca Watson, there was also that whole [url=http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Thunderf00t#At_Freethought_Blogs]Freethought Blogs incident[/url].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=.Lain;44304186]are you like 5[/QUOTE] Well - I'm ten years above the age of five. I'm not sure if I should feel either happy or sad.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44304209]can we please have a 'no thunderf00t videos' rule for this subsection. his videos are abysmally ill-formed and rely on the worst aspect of his most common talked-about subject to gain false attention.[/QUOTE] Someone calls out stupid people and you complain his videos only talk about stupid people ? Okay what

[QUOTE=Last or First;44306605]Five: But do you know what's hilarious? He makes a huge fuss about her "choosing pretty much the only cell without DNA": basically for looking for a quick thing to look cool without checking her facts. Then he sources a quote saying "The enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge", by Stephen Hawking. [i]But the quote itself isn't actually from Stephen Hawking, but is in fact [B]him looking for a quick thing to look smart and witty but not checking his facts[/B][/I]. At least with hers she was just looking for a graphic of blood, but he's trying to make an actual point about "the illusion of knowledge".[/QUOTE] It's always got to be the people who hail themselves as "independent atheist intellectual free-thinkers" that are in fact the most intellectually lazy :rolleyes: Kind of frustrating to see that, really.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44304775]I've watched a few of his videos. He brings up some decent points at times but he has a nasty habit of aiming at one or two easy targets and applying the examples he made of his targets to the entire feminist movement. "This woman said that people's balls shrivel up, therefore the entire feminist movement is without merit." He also likes to recycle arguments and clips a lot. This woman he picks apart in this video? He used the same exact clips and arguments in other videos. And each time he repeats it like 3 or 4 times in the same video because he has a poor grasp of editing.[/QUOTE] this, this, this. thunderf00t is really bad at thinking empirically, avoiding logical fallacies and having actual fact to back his claims.

Thunderf00t is really fucking bad at making his point, seriously. Like, he finds a low hanging fruit (some lady who said that *GASP* rape is bad!), takes one thing they say, and then uses that for the basis of his entire argument. He doesn't realize that it's impossible to have a ~free thinking logical argument~ without respecting, or acknowledging, the other side of the argument. He's just like the amazing atheist except he's much quieter and has a worse microphone. [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] Like, watch the first 20 seconds of his video. It's just him laughing at people who are have the [I]audacity[/I] to say that they're upset about people being fucking assholes on twitter. His caption's like "Feminist claims to have PTSD from twitter! SERIOUSLY!" It's just fucking trashy demeaning bullshit. Thunderfoot is a fucking scumbag.