[QUOTE=Killuah;49274612]The moral argument is disputable at best.
The ecological/economical argument is not.[/QUOTE]
We need to find solutions to the ecological issues but the issues need to be broached in the right manner.
Half the time people say "no there's no ecological issue" simply because they don't know about it
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;49274461]Saving it from what?
The natural cycle? Things must go extinct for life to go on chief. Evolution and climate change are harsh mistresses.[/QUOTE]
But it's not a natural cycle.
And billions of people will suffer(or do already) from climate chaning too rapidly, desertification, empty ground water reserves, you name it.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49274638]But it's not a natural cycle.
And billions of people will suffer(or do already) from climate chaning too rapidly, desertification, empty ground water reserves, you name it.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing though, humans'll get fucked up, but the Earth itself will be fine. Give it another few million years, it'll be back to green and chilly weather.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49274612]The moral argument is disputable at best.[/QUOTE]
I've always found the moral arguement super compelling and people usually just like ... I dunno, backlash to it a lot?
If I could make exact replicas from slices of beef (think microsoft copy + paste) such that we never had to kill another cow, would you still think we should kill cows? I feel like there is enough respect for animal life in this day and age such that if we could prevent their deaths needlessly we probably would.
[QUOTE=Kirad;49274687]That's the thing though, humans'll get fucked up, but the Earth itself will be fine. Give it another few million years, it'll be back to green and chilly weather.[/QUOTE]
So it'd be safe to say you give no shits about the world your kids would inherit
[QUOTE=Kirad;49274687]That's the thing though, humans'll get fucked up, but the Earth itself will be fine. Give it another few million years, it'll be back to green and chilly weather.[/QUOTE]
What's your definition of "fine" ? You'd need to redefine it so much that it loses all meaning.
And of course it's fucking easy to dismiss any kind of responsibility like that.
Not cool.
[editline]9th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flameon;49274709]I've always found the moral arguement super compelling and people usually just like ... I dunno, backlash to it a lot?
If I could make exact replicas from slices of beef (think microsoft copy + paste) such that we never had to kill another cow, would you still think we should kill cows? I feel like there is enough respect for animal life in this day and age such that if we could prevent their deaths needlessly we probably would.[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree 100% with you it's just that the realist in me knows that morals always draw the short stick against money, leisure and indulgence.
Do you think anyone follows Kant anymore nowadays?
personally im all for reducing meat consumption because it's a huge fucking resource drain, not for morals or anything
but wow this is really the wrong way to go about trying to preach vegetarianism
Yeah I'm all for eating [I]less[/I] meat since everyone consuming massive amounts is pretty unsustainable.
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;49275047]Yeah I'm all for eating [I]less[/I] meat since everyone consuming massive amounts is pretty unsustainable.[/QUOTE]
beef is probably the most concerning, iirc it's the meat that costs the most water/food resources to produce, while also leaving the biggest carbon footprint
i still go for a hamburger sometimes and i wont turn down a good steak, but i definitely have stopped going out of my way to buy it
frozen fish 4 lyfe
[QUOTE=Killuah;49274971]
Oh I agree 100% with you it's just that the realist in me knows that morals always draw the short stick against money, leisure and indulgence.
Do you think anyone follows Kant anymore nowadays?[/QUOTE]
Ha! Well said :P
[quote=aznz888]but wow this is really the wrong way to go about trying to preach vegetarianism
[/quote]
I think you may be downplaying this a bit! Hedonism is like ... a pretty strong arguement for eating meat. If this stuff tastes as good, is maybe as cheap / more ethical I could see a lot of people making the switch. If its cheaper and more ethical but doesn't taste as good, I can see tons of people sticking with eating meat.
I've come to terms with the fact that animals are one of the things we need to consume in order to survive, but at the same time, I'm not a fan at all of how what appears to be a lot of the meat industry seem to take care (or lack of care, rather) of live animals, like how one of Tyson's factory treats chickens. I feel like the least we could do is make sure that they're not constantly suffering before they're put into grocery stores.
[QUOTE=Skerion;49275148]I've come to terms with the fact that animals are one of the things we need to consume in order to survive, but at the same time, I'm not a fan at all of how what appears to be a lot of the meat industry seem to take care (or lack of care, rather) of live animals, like how one of Tyson's factory treats chickens. I feel like the least we could do is make sure that they're not constantly suffering before they're put into grocery stores.[/QUOTE]
unfortunately you really only get two choices
1. cheap but mass-produced, meaning that the animals your protein is coming from probably had a pretty shitty life
2. expensive local grocers with super fresh and great-tasting meat
there's a farmers market that opens near me every sunday and a husband and wife run the shop. it costs like $20 for a pound of sirloin or $12 for a bag of chicken breasts/wings, but it tastes absolutely spectacular just because of how fresh that stuff is. plus, i know that they run their business in a very eco-friendly and humane way, which tingles my morals a bit.
[QUOTE=Flameon;49274709]I've always found the moral arguement super compelling and people usually just like ... I dunno, backlash to it a lot?
If I could make exact replicas from slices of beef (think microsoft copy + paste) such that we never had to kill another cow, would you still think we should kill cows? I feel like there is enough respect for animal life in this day and age such that if we could prevent their deaths needlessly we probably would.[/QUOTE]
No, shit, but let me know as soon as that happens.
also after a quick googling, i found that there's a target that stocks this stuff very close to my school
time to stop by and check out what the hype is about
[QUOTE=J!NX;49274493]if we never harvested meat from cattle they would have gone extinct because they are literally useless animals
save the cows by eating them[/QUOTE]
We were the ones who turned them into useless animals in the first place
[QUOTE=Tophat;49274443]Well for starters the meat industry produces large amounts of waste and emissions that could be avoided by tweaking our diets.
It's easily one of the top 10 industries/things destroying the world as we know it.[/QUOTE]
It might be, but I think that we should focus as much as we can on larger sources of emissions. For instance transportation and electricity generation cause a majority of co2 emissions right now, and they are also pretty closely linked together.
[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;49274090]Is there anyone who actually thinks "Mmmm yeah, I fucking love devouring dead animals all the time"
Food's food.[/QUOTE]
Every time I eat meat I fucking tear into meat like our ancestors did and savor its juices reminding myself it was once a living animal and we as a race killed it, for no reason other than we are a superior species and we were hungry. Then I glory in the moment and think about how it is the result of billions of years of evolution that created this and we are literally at the top of every food chain in the world and how lucky I am to be human.
And it was my privilege.
i had roasted pork knee last weekend and it was the best thing in life
For every animal you don't eat, I eat two.
so, true to my word, i went to my local target and picked up a bag of the stuff. it's about $8-9 a pound, so not cheap by any means, but also not extraordinarily expensive.
[IMG]https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t34.0-12/12348357_10153072672312693_1398249031_n.jpg?oh=9a26fa1662e17ebee71de58366c53070&oe=5669A270[/IMG]
i sauteed it with some olive oil and tried it. the default flavor is extremely mediocre, so you still have to season it yourself; i added some garlic, parsley, salt, and pepper(ignore the turkey breast, i needed to finish my thanksgiving leftovers. hey i never said i was a vegan :v). the texture is pretty good, and it's rather filling. it's still got a bit of that overspiced flavor a lot of meat substitutes have when they try to market themselves as a beef alternative, but i've had worse.
[IMG]https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t34.0-12/12358487_10153072672422693_1692844893_n.jpg?oh=42bb2ee7af13fdafa5097bb6d736584c&oe=5669C82E[/IMG]
if you want the vegan bang for your buck protein, you'll probably have to go lentils. as far as a meat sub goes though, it's not bad. probably a 7/10?
[QUOTE=_Pai;49275910]Every time I eat meat I fucking tear into meat like our ancestors did and savor its juices reminding myself it was once a living animal and we as a race killed it, for no reason other than we are a superior species and we were hungry. Then I glory in the moment and think about how it is the result of billions of years of evolution that created this and we are literally at the top of every food chain in the world and how lucky I am to be human.
And it was my privilege.[/QUOTE]
hah
but seriously hummens would not be where we are today if it wasn't for consuming large amounts of calories and we weren't doing it by eating bananas and soybeans 15,000 years ago we were eating other animals.
[QUOTE=Penguiin;49276230]hah
but seriously hummens would not be where we are today if it wasn't for consuming large amounts of calories and we weren't doing it by eating bananas and soybeans 15,000 years ago we were eating other animals.[/QUOTE]
i thought that was why roasted fat/meat is so appealing to us? our noses recognize a calorie source when it smells one.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49274758]So it'd be safe to say you give no shits about the world your kids would inherit[/QUOTE]
Never meant to imply that, what I'm trying to say is that cataclysmic events have affected the Earth several times in the past, ahead of any natural "cycles." Yes, each these events and future ones had and would have catastrophic losses of life, but all life leads to death anyway, the cycle just continues, even if it was ended "unnaturally." If life managed to keep on truckin' after several mass extinction events, I have optimistic faith that it'll pull through again.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49274971]What's your definition of "fine" ? You'd need to redefine it so much that it loses all meaning.
And of course it's fucking easy to dismiss any kind of responsibility like that.
Not cool.[/QUOTE]
My definition of fine is that Earth will still be able to eventually support life sometime in its and our sun's lifetime. It's a little selfish as a species to say an objectively fine future would be one that required human life specifically. I'd like to iterate that I am all for every possible measure that would effectively reduce our pollution and emissions, I just believe we should stop trying to noble-y say "We're trying to save Earth" and say the truth, which is: "We're trying to save our own skins (and by association, the current biosphere)."
I didn't know Onision browsed Facepunch.
I would like to clear a few things up since I made a mess of this thread, and more or less left it in a mess.
-I'm not a vegan I aim to eat more like one for a multitude of reasons, but I firmly believe that diversification and survival go hand in hand with each other in many different scenarios, and nutrition is no exception. I love a nice grilled kebab as much as the next man; but I wouldn't treat myself to such a thing more than one or two times a season.
The mainstream meat industry is less than ideal in many ways, so I distance myself from it as much as possible. Ideally if i'm going to eat meat I'd prefer to kill it myself.
-I don't mean to offend any of you. I feel like my messages here are misinterpreted or misconstrued sometimes. If you take a moment to read and understand what i'm saying instead of skimming over it, you'll realize that I never intend any harm towards you, I only warn you of it. You may not agree with my sarcasm or twisted sense of humor (thanks to Tim and Eric/Xavier Renegade Angel), and that's okay, I can't really convey that through text. So from now on I'll make more of an effort to post properly and communicate effectively as HumanAbyss recommended.
In life you can do both good and bad things to yourself and the world; and that's pretty much the beauty of existing and living.
If you want to eat meat, there are consequences (depending on the source, type/species, and frequency of consumption). If you want to stop eating meat all together, there are consequences (mostly if you fail to do so correctly). All I suggest is that you always dig deeper and aim to make good changes in yourself and in the world, and find the balance so that you can enjoy yourself but also retain a healthy planet for our future generations.
I love you all. Peace!
[QUOTE=PelPix123;49274383]I feel like veganism is based on this weird worldview where plants aren't alive too. Exactly what do vegans think plants are? I don't understand. They're really not that different from animals. They have a survival drive and everything.[/QUOTE]
If you asking about the spiritual point of view (like Buddhism) Im going tell you the main concern is not about plants being alive or not.
Its due to them not having blood.
[QUOTE=Tophat;49274066]This looks like a great way for the meat lovers to stop eating dead animals needlessly and excessively.
[/QUOTE]
Nothing gets me harder than the squeal of a chicken as I slit its throat and toss it in the deep fryer.
I can't call something without meat in it a proper meal.
Although I've tried some of these meat substitutes and I must say they are doing a fine job. I could survive on it if I had to.
[QUOTE=Cocacoladude;49284796]Nothing gets me harder than the squeal of a chicken as I slit its throat and toss it in the deep fryer.[/QUOTE]
At least you killed it yourself. That's the best way.
[editline]10th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Buck.;49285233]I can't call something without meat in it a proper meal.
Although I've tried some of these meat substitutes and I must say they are doing a fine job. I could survive on it if I had to.[/QUOTE]
The best way to substitute meat is to use legumes etc, like lentils, chick peas, and stuff like that.
[editline]10th December 2015[/editline]
Has anyone here tried the burgers by any chance? I may hunt them down and try them.
Ha. My dad works for this company. We have this stuff in our house all the time because of it. My dad loves the burgers and sliders, I don't think they're that great. The chicken stuff they make isn't that bad though, and I actually eat the chicken tenders all the time because they're insanely easy to cook up in ~5 min.
I don't like the burgers because I don't think they taste enough like meat. They're getting there but even if I drown the shit in ketchup or BBQ sauce I can still tell it's not real meat. They do make a beef crumble that my mom will use in meat sauce that isn't bad though. The meatballs suck. The chicken is a lot closer to tasting like chicken. I can actually eat the tenders and strips they make without complaint and they go well with just about anything chicken normally goes with.
Ethically, my dad has worked in food sales all his life with large companies ranging from Quaker to Golden Grain to Sara Lee to Gallo. He knows what the factories they make all the food in are like, and while safety and quality standards have never been an issue they're still basically huge slaughterhouses to him. He thinks if you can make a product that tastes exactly the same as the real stuff without killing animals, why not?
I am not a vegan.
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