[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52652979]No, there isn't.[/QUOTE]
Then you're either being willfully ignorant or just not paying attention. Nothing I can do to help you either way.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653002]Then you're either being willfully ignorant or just not paying attention. Nothing I can do to help you either way.[/QUOTE]
I think the earlier analysis that you're just dismissive and pretentious shines through with this response that adds absolutely nothing. If you had something valuable to say you would have.
There's nothing thought provoking about bazingo and laugh tracks.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52653005]I think the earlier analysis that you're just dismissive and pretentious shines through with this response that adds absolutely nothing. If you had something valuable to say you would have.
There's nothing thought provoking about bazingo and laugh tracks.[/QUOTE]
So you don't find the video appealing. That's fine. Hell, I flicked through it a bit myself and while I wasn't particularly interested in it myself, I can see why others might find it an interesting watch.
OP clearly posted this here because they saw some value in it and felt that it was worth sharing. They'd probably hoped to discuss it with other people who also saw value in it.
But if you took even a slightly critical glance at the response in here, you'd see that the thread has quickly filled up with people who are simply angry about the video and aren't even remotely interested in discussing its content.
All I'm saying is, if you find something on the site that doesn't appeal to you, then move on to something that does. If there's a perspective presented in the video you disagree with and you'd like to voice your issue with it, then present an argument.
I'm not seeing any of that here, just reactionary and anti-intellectual shit-flinging.
If you're going to start a discussion then say "please leave" when the majority pans your opinions and points are you really starting a discussion?
This isn't reddit where you can just downvote and bury the thoughts you don't like, everyone has their voice. Judging by the way the conversation's going, that's a good thing for you since you would've been the one buried.
This is a Jon McIntosh video about Big Bang Theory. That alone goes a long way in telling you why it's disliked. Worthless and dumb pseudo-intellectual commentator on the topic of a worthless and dumb pseudo-intellectual show.
I've seen plenty of people justify their disagreements with the video's content itself, but not a single one justifying it's existence, only "facepunch is sexist" narratives that completely ignore that there's next to zero Big Bang Theory fans on Facepunch.
What is valuable about Jon McIntosh's thoughts on Big Bang Theory? What precisely makes this video worth its length being the same as a fucking episode of the torturous show it's criticizing? What evidence do you have to point to this being about everyone being sexist and not that McIntosh is a tool and BBT is garbage television?
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652868]Here you're essentially using 'It's a video game forum, get over it' as an excuse to have a knee-jerk reaction to a pretty inoffensive video.[/QUOTE]
There's a lot of irony in you calling people's responses knee-jerk considering you didn't actually address any of the original responses and just posted a knee-jerk response about FP being dismissive of feminism.
Again, the video creator wasn't just addressing the Big Bang Theory solely in this example, he was describing common sexist tropes in a wide range of media and television which happen to be exemplified in the Big Bang Theory. Just because you guys don't like the show isn't indicative of its overall popularity and representation of the medium in general, and to simply dismiss the ideas discussed as pointless or not needing attention is a bit much.
Can anyone challenge the actual message and thesis of the argument hes conveying, instead of simply writing him off as "psuedo-intellectual", or citing the shitty show as a reason to not even bother? Why does this content creator have this stigma on this forum in the first place?
[QUOTE=Solidskei;52653415]Again, the video creator wasn't just addressing the Big Bang Theory solely in this example, he was describing common sexist tropes in a wide range of media and television which happen to be exemplified in the Big Bang Theory. Just because you guys don't like the show isn't indicative of its overall popularity and representation of the medium in general, and to simply dismiss the ideas discussed as pointless or not needing attention is a bit much.
Can anyone challenge the actual message and thesis of the argument hes conveying, instead of simply writing him off as "psuedo-intellectual", or citing the shitty show as a reason to not even bother? Why does this content creator have this stigma on this forum in the first place?[/QUOTE]
I just looked the guy up, apparently he was one of Gamergate's big boogeymen. Kind of puts this whole thread into perspective.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653426]I just looked the guy up, apparently he was one of Gamergate's big boogeymen. Kind of puts this whole thread into perspective.[/QUOTE]
That makes sense. I still don't fully understand the overwhelming negativity received, content creator or shitty show aside. Sorta bolsters our points ironically.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653426]I just looked the guy up, apparently he was one of Gamergate's big boogeymen. Kind of puts this whole thread into perspective.[/QUOTE]
More importantly, he's probably the writer behind most of FemFreq's video game 'analysis'.
He's notorious for calling anyone who disagrees with him even slightly sexist and demonising video game consumers via wild generalisations, while his own content tends to not have any objectivity (or often base in reality, for that matter) [I]whatsoever[/I].
I'm actually surprised I haven't seen more personal attacks in this thread so far, because he's one of the few people where that would be somewhat justified regarding the expected quality of his argument.
I think one person I knew on another forum summed up TBBT the best: it's not a show made by nerds for nerds, it's a show made by Chuck Lorre for the people who used to stuff nerds in lockers in high school. If you're expecting any nuance with your sitcoms, or want them to appeal to more than the lowest common denominator, you're looking in the wrong place.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;52652803]This video is an analysis on a show that is overwhelmingly lamented as being one of the worst, bottom of the barrel sitcoms out there. An analysis on how it handles misogyny is not only not productive, but is giving the show [I]way[/I] too much credit when it's always had an awful, [I]awful[/I] problem with stereotypes and misrepresentation.[/QUOTE]
IMO, it doesn't matter how terrible it is/we think it is. This show is [I]popular.[/I] Rabidly so. I remember being in the kitchen and hearing both it come from two different televisions in the house, hearing the dialogue in stereo. It's hugely popular. Everyone knows about it, and plenty of people watch it, or else it wouldn't be on the air still, today.
And, of course, if something's popular, it has influence. And if something popular has something stupid, that means the audience is excusing those those things, and yes, that includes their portrayal of "nerd culture."
Dismissing a video away because "the show is dumb, so what's the point?" is silly, because the show has influence, and there's nothing wrong with analyzing that influence. Criticize the analysis, call their arguments flawed, and call out how there's no misogyny in the show, if you feel that way. But to dismiss the video for its idea is a bit silly tbh
[editline]6th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=CyclonatorZ;52653518]I think one person I knew on another forum summed up TBBT the best: it's not a show made by nerds for nerds, it's a show made by Chuck Lorre for the people who used to stuff nerds in lockers in high school. If you're expecting any nuance with your sitcoms, or want them to appeal to more than the lowest common denominator, you're looking in the wrong place.[/QUOTE]
So many people are surprised I hate it. What really shocks me is I have a brother-in-law who fits the same bill. Works in IT, has a massive comic book collection, et cetera. He loves the show.
[QUOTE=Kiwi;52653491]Do you even listen to yourself? I think YOURE the one who's shit flinging because you're too busy dismissing everyone's thoughts and refusing to be open and actually explain why you think this way
Especially when you say this.
Worst post in the thread btw[/QUOTE]
The thing is, I already [I]have[/I] explained my thinking. Refer to my second post.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653426]Sure, the Big Bang Theory may be shit, but that doesn't make it irrelevant. On the contrary, it's actually been one of the most popular television shows for a while now (though believe me, I'll never understand why).
Surely it's not a stretch to say that analyzing one of the most watched TV shows in the western world might be an interesting way to explore our culture a bit?
Maybe this isn't the kind of content you come to Facepunch for, but getting upset about it and deriding anyone who actually does find this kind of thing interesting doesn't really do anything to improve our situation here.
I probably worded my first post a bit poorly. I don't think a majority of Facepunch is sexist, hell, I don't think a majority is stupid or ignorant. I just find the tendency of some people here toward getting outraged about any critique of our culture or how it's reflected in our media a bit frustrating.[/QUOTE]
Frankly I'm dumbfounded by the sheer obtuseness of you claiming I haven't expressed my thoughts at all.
It's incredible really, I come in here and post expressing my disappointment at aggressive knee-jerk reactions toward feminist criticism, and in response I get more confirmation of my initial concerns than I could have possibly imagined. I'd find it funny if I wasn't so disheartened by it.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653545]It's incredible really, I come in here and post expressing my disappointment at aggressive knee-jerk reactions toward feminist criticism, and [B]in response I get more confirmation of my initial concerns than I could have possibly imagined. I'd find it funny if I wasn't so disheartened by it.[/B][/QUOTE]
Come on, dude, this just comes off as immature and pretentious, especially the bolded bit. Try taking a break from the thread and calm down a bit.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653545]It's incredible really, I come in here and post expressing my disappointment at aggressive knee-jerk reactions toward feminist criticism, and in response I get more confirmation of my initial concerns than I could have possibly imagined. I'd find it funny if I wasn't so disheartened by it.[/quote]
Step one: Post something controversial.
Step two: Complain about people reacting to the controversy; imply that [I]they[/I] are the ones being controversial.
Step three: State disappointment in people who reacted to the controversy.
Step four: Claim your superiority over those who reacted; laugh at people you claim superiority over.
(Step five: Claim you're being attacked?)
Did I miss anything or was this more or less what you posted for? If you wanted a serious discussion over feminist criticism - why did you post here to begin with? The debate forum is right over there - that's what it's for: serious debate and discussion.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;52653553]Come on, dude, this just comes off as a bit immature and pretentious, especially the bolded bit. Try taking a break from the thread and calm down a bit.[/QUOTE]
I'm calm, just a tad frustrated and disappointed is all. I will be bowing out now though, about time for bed for me.
(Tone policing is in pretty poor form, btw.)
[quote=Cyanlime] I will be bowing out now though, about time for bed for me.(Tone policing is in pretty poor form, btw.)[/quote]
So you can dish out the heat but can't take it when it's returned? Starting a debate you don't intend to finish is far poorer in form.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653564]I'm calm, just a tad frustrated and disappointed is all. I will be bowing out now though, about time for bed for me.
(Tone policing is in pretty poor form, btw.)[/QUOTE]
For someone who has been here for six years, you'd figure you'd have a better grasp on how this place operates and what the majority of users here are like. Shoulda bowed out ages ago, frankly.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52653568]So you can dish out the heat but can't take it when it's returned? Starting a debate you don't intend to finish is far poorer in form.[/QUOTE]
And stay up all night continuing a shit-fest (this discussion has definitely not reached a level of discourse sufficient to qualify as a 'debate') that isn't changing anyone's minds or accomplishing anything at all?
I think if the two of us can agree on anything at all, it's that I've already posted in this thread a lot more than I should have done. So yeah, no thanks, I'm out.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;52653578]For someone who has been here for six years, you'd figure you'd have a better grasp on how this place operates and what the majority of users here are like. Shoulda bowed out ages ago, frankly.[/QUOTE]
I knew a lot of people wouldn't like what I had to say from the get-go. I did expect a bit better than what I got, though.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52653581]that isn't changing anyone's minds or accomplishing anything at all?[/QUOTE]
It doesn't seem like you've tried to change anyone's minds. You've just made outrageous statement and accusation after outrageous statement and accusation.
I think he's more upset that no one has had any substantial argument against the video or its content. Can any of you go into depth beyond "this video sucks" and explain WHY his arguments are lacking, stupid, or " trash" beyond your held bias against the individual who made it? No one in this thread critiquing the video has given it a fair chance; they simply see who created it and assume it is bad and "pretentious" without actually addressing ANY argument the video made. It seems although none of you have watched it.
[QUOTE=Solidskei;52653599]I think he's more upset that no one has had any substantial argument against the video or its content.[/QUOTE]
Please direct your attention to the very top of this page where the subforum this is located is not "Debates and Discussion" or "Polidicks". Please continue to refer to this piece of information any time you ask 'but why aren't we having a real debate over this'.
Edit: Also, I don't need to have watched the video to debate against his points that 'Facepunch is sexist and doesn't believe sexism is real' because he says so. See: My doing so in the above posts.
*looks at thread*
hmmmm
*looks harder*
hmmmmmmmmm
Yep. Facepunch sucks.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Y-You suck" - Novangel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52653657]Thanks for signing up just to tell us. Your time is clearly valuable.[/QUOTE]
no prob bob
[QUOTE=Kiwi;52653642]
You even acknowledged this dude btw and now you've gone back to claiming that nobody here can go beyond "this video sucks and explain why? Well we did go beyond the video. We're now arguing two users who claim ignorance and spitting the dummy when the users in this thread(the ones who really care!) HAVE actually countered, brought up WHY and explained their thoughts.
Saying this is being dismissive and now you've turned against the people you already acknowledged and made an influencial stance.
There's no right or wrong place for this kind of discussion. It's when you start being ignorant and then claiming people are being ignorance. We don't need hypocrites. We need open minded people. What you are doing isn't that.
This about sums it all up with what both of you are doing. You will gain no real discussion by acting like this.
[/QUOTE]
I'm seeing arguments stating that there is inherent redundancy in analyzing such a trivial show, and that I do understand. I'm not trying to claim "dummy", nor am I claiming anyone here is ignorant, I'm more trying to clarify why the arguments he presents involving sexual tropes in the television media aren't substantial, as they seem well thought out to me. I do revoke my original post, as I observed the initial comments and saw them as dismissive as feminism rather than dismissive of the content creator and his choice to analyze these issues in an already idiotic and undeserving show.
Subsequently, I can understand why you wouldn't take the video or the content creator seriously. Perhaps I was wrong in trying to have this discussion at this time, I felt as though you were all dismissing his ideas and his concepts rather than him as a person or his choice of subject. I still feel his points are solid over the presentation of sexism in the media and the portrayal of this nerd archetype. I wanted to defend the fact that there is a presence of sexism in television, I suppose I initially felt as though that fact was being dismissed or denied.
I wanted a discussion over the core arguments of his video, and how they relate to television shows in general, mainly sitcoms. Not about the Big Bang Theory specifically. I'm sorry for the inappropriate choice of venue.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652402]Nobody's trying to take away your sitcoms guys, there's nothing wrong with thinking about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Correct. There is nothing wrong about talking about misogyny.
However, there is an argument to make that it's not a good idea to talk about misogyny in context of a sitcom, considering that, y'know, sitcoms are designed to entertain people via situational comedy and not to serve as scathing societal commentary, and especially not commentary pertaining to prejudices against women.
I know someone will counter and say that we should address misogyny in all forms it appears in society, but come on. You're going to waste your breath criticizing an average at best sitcom? Is it really worth it?
I used to like BBT, watched the series for a few years
But then all hate I saw online turned me off from it.
Sitcoms in general are terrible now.
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