[QUOTE=BusterBluth;52156675]I don't understand when and why gender became such a big deal. To me I just equate it with the sex of the person. You know, if you have a vagina and want to dress and act like a dude then cool, but whats the big deal with still being called a girl? Or if you prefer a boy, just fucking pick one good gravy. I just don't get it. Why is it such a major fucking deal that Bill Nye is concerned about it.[/QUOTE]
Because you don't "want" to be trans. Its who you are. Calling someone female who identifies as male is detrimental at best and downright insulting at worst. You don't get to pick and choose, that's not how this works.
[editline]27th April 2017[/editline]
The way Bill goes about it is wrong too. He makes it seem like its a fashion sense rather than one's identity.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52156687]Because you don't "want" to be trans. Its who you are. Calling someone female who identifies as male is detrimental at best and downright insulting at worst. You don't get to pick and choose, that's not how this works.
[editline]27th April 2017[/editline]
The way Bill goes about it is wrong too. He makes it seem like its a fashion sense rather than one's identity.[/QUOTE]
Psychology is one of the softest sciences there is and it's not even completely accepted among psychologists that non-binary gender dystopia is a thing (just to clarify I lean towards it being a thing but I don't have strong opinions one way or the other). Why would you make an episode about it on a science show, especially since Bill Nye has a history of sticking to hard science? I'm hoping that this is just a result of executive meddling and Bill Nye is just going along with it, because I really don't like the idea that he thinks stuff like cultural appropriation is a scientific issue.
There's so many things he could have tackled with a hard scientific mindset. Creationism, anti-vaxxers, new age pseudomedicine, climate change, hell make an episode about nuclear power. Since the nineties there are still lots of people that think a full nuclear meltdown is the same as a nuclear bomb going off. That's five episodes right there and that's just off the top of my head.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52147446]Well that was mildly racist.
Normally I don't care cause it is in the name of comedy and satire, but the jokes suck, and I am sure that guy sincerely wants people to change their behavior over ridiculous things. Like you shouldn't display a Buddha as a white person, despite Buddhism spanning several continents and supporting no racial exclusivity.
Just should rename the show to "Bill Nye: Indoctrinates the World" with that kind of unscientific crap.
Also there is this skit:
[media]https://youtu.be/46h-LfNWPn8[/media][/QUOTE]
whys he ripping on vanilla? the steadfast base of ice cream? this guy just lost all credibility in my eyes
[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52147501]how did anyone think this was a good idea?[/QUOTE]
This is what happens when you put a bloated ego like Bill Nye at the helm of [I]anything[/I]
[QUOTE=IAreLegend;52156747]whys he ripping on vanilla? the steadfast base of ice cream? this guy just lost all credibility in my eyes[/QUOTE]
Josh Homme's quote on vanilla is great, "really, vanilla is the King Shit of Fuck Mountain of ice cream flavors in that, you know, it’s worked its way to the front."
This segment especially is awful and I'm not adding much to the thread by saying this but I too have had my image/nostalgia for Bill totally soured.
Every episode has some nuggets of insanity I get to discover.
The last episode has Bill Nye suggesting we should fine people who have too many kids in America durin his panel segment.
Bill Nye: The One Child Policy Guy.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52156687]Because you don't "want" to be trans. Its who you are. Calling someone female who identifies as male is detrimental at best and downright insulting at worst. You don't get to pick and choose, that's not how this works.
[editline]27th April 2017[/editline]
The way Bill goes about it is wrong too. He makes it seem like its a fashion sense rather than one's identity.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I think the creation of all these different gender types are ridiculous. I was saying whats wrong with just using boy or girl as identifiers? Is it that big of a deal?
It just feels like people become consumed with the pronouns of which they are called. My example in the earlier post I was describing a women who dresses and acts like a man, but isn't trans.
I don't want to come off as someone who says "If he has a dick or had one Im going to call them a man", I'm really not. I just don't see the point in having 50 genders. It just seems such an irrelevant thing.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52156773]Every episode has some nuggets of insanity I get to discover.
The last episode has Bill Nye suggesting we should fine people who have too many kids in America durin his panel segment.
Bill Nye: The One Child Policy Guy.[/QUOTE]
I don't hate that idea.
[QUOTE=Man in the Moon;52157802]I don't hate that idea.[/QUOTE]
Fining people is a coward's way out.
What you do is just you randomly sink cruise ships, that way you get a nice diverse set of people, and you get to kill the type of people that would go on cruise ships [sp]yes this is bill burr[/sp]
Save the world out of one end of the mouth and doom it out the other. tbh, he should just stick to showing off cool science stuff instead of making all this social commentary stuff that people can't get away from these days. For being apparently aimed at people who grew up watching Bill Nye, Bill Nye sure likes to beat his viewers over the head with his personal ethos, as if they're 90-year-old GOP voters or, pray tell, people who didn't watch his show at all because they thought science was for nerds.
Also that "dear white people" segment is infuriating. What's more pressing; someone selling highly-poisonous mercury potions as a "cure-all remedy" or their lawn decorations? I'm sick and tired of tangential critiques where a matter of taste is turned into a matter of ethnic morality, as if a "sensible society" would prevent you from putting tacky Buddha statues in your house.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;52157646]That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I think the creation of all these different gender types are ridiculous. I was saying whats wrong with just using boy or girl as identifiers? Is it that big of a deal?
It just feels like people become consumed with the pronouns of which they are called. My example in the earlier post I was describing a women who dresses and acts like a man, but isn't trans.
I don't want to come off as someone who says "If he has a dick or had one Im going to call them a man", I'm really not. I just don't see the point in having 50 genders. It just seems such an irrelevant thing.[/QUOTE]
For me it's just basic courtesy in a way. There's no detriment to me if I honour someone's pronouns and self-identification, and if it makes them happy then there's imo no reason not to do so.
(The only ones I've actually encountered of the former category so far are he, she and they, so it's not like it's going out of hand or overly complicated. It's pretty much a non-issue as far as I am concerned, but I guess that's just one data point.)
[QUOTE=jazxsora;52156764]Josh Homme's quote on vanilla is great, "really, vanilla is the King Shit of Fuck Mountain of ice cream flavors in that, you know, it’s worked its way to the front."
This segment especially is awful and I'm not adding much to the thread by saying this but I too have had my image/nostalgia for Bill totally soured.[/QUOTE]
hahah I had that exact quote on my mind when I wrote that
[QUOTE=Man in the Moon;52157802]I don't hate that idea.[/QUOTE]
how many is too many
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52158155]how many is too many[/QUOTE]
One. No more children policy
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52158155]how many is too many[/QUOTE]
I'm going say 10 billion if the want this realistic.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52158155]how many is too many[/QUOTE]
19 & Counting.
[QUOTE=Man in the Moon;52158414]One. No more children policy[/QUOTE]
We're breaking new ground here.
Wow, this is just sad. I mean, if you want to make a segment about sexuality and whatnot; delve into the science and psychology of it. Go into how our bodies develop through puberty and hormones and whatever. Now that he's no longer tied to a kid's network, Bill Nye should be willing to go into mature, in depth conversations about these topics. You know, for science.
Of course, there's "white people, bad" finger wagging. Any notion I had about watching this show is gone. This is just disappointing and stupid.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52153016]Dunno why people look up to bill so much when it comes to science, yeah okay he did a show back in the 90's but he ironically isn't actually a scientist, his degree is in engineering and he doesn't even have a PhD[/QUOTE]
He has a BS in Mechanical Engineering from Cornell.
Fucking [I]Dolph Lundgren[/I] has a:
- BS Chemistry from Washington State
- BS Chemical Engineering from Royal Institute of Technology from Stockholm
- MS Chemical Engineering from University of Sydney
- Fulbright Scholarship Recipient from MIT
Ivan Drago should be hosting this fucking show
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52159014]He has a BS in Mechanical Engineering from Cornell.
Fucking [I]Dolph Lundgren[/I] has a:
- BS Chemistry from Washington State
- BS Chemical Engineering from Royal Institute of Technology from Stockholm
- MS Chemical Engineering from University of Sydney
- Fulbright Scholarship Recipient from MIT
Ivan Drago should be hosting this fucking show[/QUOTE]
This is honestly why I started to lose respect for Bill Nye. Like, he did an amazing thing getting kids into science; hell, my little brother knows him as "the Science Guy" because teachers STILL use his tapes in science class.
I don't care that he doesn't have a degree beyond a Bachelor's in Engineering.
I care that he only has a Bachelor's in Engineering, yet still acts as though he's an authority on anything beyond Engineering. That's really my beef with a lot of these pop-scientists who are in the public eye. People don't really get that science is a BROAD fucking term, so just because someone is a "scientist" doesn't mean that they're an expert in ALL science.
Hell, I'm working on getting a doctorate degree in Film Studies; I'll (hopefully) be a doctor eventually, but that doesn't mean my opinion on climate change or nuclear physics is worth two squirts.
There's a point where using your status as a well-known "science guy" to weigh in on actual debates and topics is just misleading people. That's not to say that Bill Nye knows NOTHING about science outside of Engineering, but there's no way anyone would pay attention to what he had to say if he didn't host a kids' show back in the day.
Just if anyone wants to add another cringe to their day.
[media]https://youtu.be/eHmtn6gAioQ[/media]
[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52159049]There's a point where using your status as a well-known "science guy" to weigh in on actual debates and topics is just misleading people. That's not to say that Bill Nye knows NOTHING about science outside of Engineering, but there's no way anyone would pay attention to what he had to say if he didn't host a kids' show back in the day.[/QUOTE]
I'll play devil's advocate, partially, here. You can be a "science guy" in various ways, despite not having the credentials, and weigh in on various debates and topics - so long as you're actually learned and do research in regards to the topic at hand. I know he's primarily an entertainer and a YouTuber (but hey, that's basically what Bill Nye is, right?), but Michael Stevens (Vsauce) does excellent Bill Nye-esque videos ranging various topics, and his only credentials are a BS in neuroscience. That certainly doesn't grant him any authority in any mathematics, astrophysics, etc., yet he still makes detailed, well researched videos about them.
I'll let up from playing devil's advocate there, though. What Bill Nye is doing here is certainly out of touch and extremely heavy handed. He had the capacity to make something great and squandered it.
[QUOTE=Cock Boner;52159126]I'll play devil's advocate, partially, here. You can be a "science guy" in various ways, despite not having the credentials, and weigh in on various debates and topics - so long as you're actually learned and do research in regards to the topic at hand. I know he's primarily an entertainer and a YouTuber (but hey, that's basically what Bill Nye is, right?), but Michael Stevens (Vsauce) does excellent Bill Nye-esque videos ranging various topics, and his only credentials are a BS in neuroscience. That certainly doesn't grant him any authority in any mathematics, astrophysics, etc., yet he still makes detailed, well researched videos about them.
I'll let up from playing devil's advocate there, though. What Bill Nye is doing here is certainly out of touch and extremely heavy handed. He had the capacity to make something great and squandered it.[/QUOTE]
That's a fair point. Like, there's nothing wrong with having no credentials so long as you do your research and cite your sources. Just look at Adam Ruins Everything; literally the only time they peddled something dubious was when they claimed that freemium mobile games should count as "video games" (which is really more opinion based than anything else). But other than that, every time he says anything they literally put their sources right on the screen, in case you feel like reading more into it. There's no element of "I'm on TV and have a bowtie, so what I'm saying is fact".
The problem comes when people with a large public following try to push a hot-button topic with no proof and label anyone asking for sources "a hater". Adam Savage from Mythbusters literally did this the other day, which is as depressing as it is ironic.
[sp]He later recanted, saying that he has no credentials in the field of gender studies or biology and that his assertions are entirely based on his own emotions towards a topic he's otherwise ignorant of and nothing more. So good on him for being honest, I guess.[/sp]
[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52159160] Adam Savage from Mythbusters literally did this the other day, which is as depressing as it is ironic.
[sp]He later recanted, saying that he has no credentials in the field of gender studies or biology and that his assertions are entirely based on his own emotions towards a topic he's otherwise ignorant of and nothing more. So good on him for being honest, I guess.[/sp][/QUOTE]
he also said if show your disagreement to him he'll say it's harassment/trolling.
snip, couldn't show image.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;52157870]For me it's just basic courtesy in a way. There's no detriment to me if I honour someone's pronouns and self-identification, and if it makes them happy then there's imo no reason not to do so.
(The only ones I've actually encountered of the former category so far are he, she and they, so it's not like it's going out of hand or overly complicated. It's pretty much a non-issue as far as I am concerned, but I guess that's just one data point.)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this is basically what I was going to say. It matters because it matters to them. If my trans friend wants to be referred to as a woman, it takes virtually zero effort for me to do so, and it makes their lives infinitely easier. I don't agree with legislative stuff regarding the language surrounding trans issues (see Jordan Petersen), but in terms of daily living and just being a good person, I don't understand why anyone would intentionally refuse to go along with it. That being said, I draw the line at any "pronouns" that have x's or z's in them, even "they" seems a little goofy but I'll go along. If you ask me to refer to you as xe or something you can fuck off.
[QUOTE=srobins;52159558]Yeah, this is basically what I was going to say. It matters because it matters to them. If my trans friend wants to be referred to as a woman, it takes virtually zero effort for me to do so, and it makes their lives infinitely easier. I don't agree with legislative stuff regarding the language surrounding trans issues (see Jordan Petersen), but in terms of daily living and just being a good person, I don't understand why anyone would intentionally refuse to go along with it. That being said, I draw the line at any "pronouns" that have x's or z's in them, even "they" seems a little goofy but I'll go along. If you ask me to refer to you as xe or something you can fuck off.[/QUOTE]
Hypothetically if calling them "xe" made their lives infinitely easier then what is the difference between that and him/her/they?
[QUOTE=kariko;52159565]Hypothetically if calling them "xe" made their lives infinitely easier then what is the difference between that and him/her/they?[/QUOTE]
Eh, even as I was writing that out I realized it's kind of illogical. For me there has to be some limit. If you want to swap terms, I'll go along with it, but I'm not going to adopt your made-up vocabulary just because you think "they" isn't ambiguous enough already. At that point it goes beyond just [I]choosing[/I] a pronoun and inventing them. It's the same reason I would respect somebody that wants to be called a name other than their legal, i.e. a friend likes to go by "Sam" even though they're named "Elizabeth", but if they ask me to call them "High Lord of the Great Steppes, Queen Sam the Great" I'd tell them to fuck off.
[editline]28th April 2017[/editline]
That and I don't necessarily agree that using "xe" makes their lives easier in a reasonable way. I can personally understand why it would be damaging and hurtful for a male-to-female trans person to be referred to as a man. I cannot fathom why anyone would feel hurt by not being called xe. Maybe my ignorance is showing, I'm definitely open to discussion but that's how I feel.
[QUOTE=srobins;52159585]Eh, even as I was writing that out I realized it's kind of illogical. For me there has to be some limit. If you want to swap terms, I'll go along with it, but I'm not going to adopt your made-up vocabulary just because you think "they" isn't ambiguous enough already. At that point it goes beyond just [I]choosing[/I] a pronoun and inventing them. It's the same reason I would respect somebody that wants to be called a name other than their legal, i.e. a friend likes to go by "Sam" even though they're named "Elizabeth", but if they ask me to call them "High Lord of the Great Steppes, Queen Sam the Great" I'd tell them to fuck off.
[editline]28th April 2017[/editline]
That and I don't necessarily agree that using "xe" makes their lives easier in a reasonable way. I can personally understand why it would be damaging and hurtful for a male-to-female trans person to be referred to as a man. I cannot fathom why anyone would feel hurt by not being called xe. Maybe my ignorance is showing, I'm definitely open to discussion but that's how I feel.[/QUOTE]
Before I say more, I have to admit that this is all just my thoughts. I don't personally know anyone who uses anything other than he/she/they but it's more of a "what if" conversation. But to the imaginary "xe" person, it might feel as helpful as a transwoman would feel if you called her "she" or a transman "he". Like maybe they aren't comfortable being called "he" or "she", and "they" feels impersonal or something so they have their own thing that describes them.
Again I don't actually know if this is how it feels, but I'm imagining what reasons I would have for wanting to be called something else if I was in their position.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52151543]He used to make topical videos about science for early teen (and honestly late teen too cause he was awesome) science classes, and they were usually on VHS. He had this make believe lab and he would constantly do visual experiments and play with fossils and tectonic simulators and just about everything you can imagine that would win a science fair. It was cool as fuck, and it was honestly informative. It kinda sucks how he went down this neo-liberal track instead of sticking to good presentations of science.[/QUOTE]
I don't think neo-liberal is the word your looking for... Did Bill push austerity, deregulation, and free trade on his new show too or something? Neo-liberal is an laissez-faire economic ideology
[QUOTE=kariko;52159615]Before I say more, I have to admit that this is all just my thoughts. I don't personally know anyone who uses anything other than he/she/they but it's more of a "what if" conversation. But to the imaginary "xe" person, it might feel as helpful as a transwoman would feel if you called her "she" or a transman "he". Like maybe they aren't comfortable being called "he" or "she", and "they" feels impersonal or something so they have their own thing that describes them.
Again I don't actually know if this is how it feels, but I'm imagining what reasons I would have for wanting to be called something else if I was in their position.[/QUOTE]
I can definitely imagine someone convincing themselves they need to be called "xe", I just think they're a ridiculous and kind of unreasonable person for it. To me it'd almost be akin to a non-trans person wanting to be called a "she". Like "dude I'm a man but just refer to me as 'she' okay?", I'd be like "why? what possible reason could you have for this request?". And like I said, it's a made up pronoun. It's meaningless, it has no real-world context or meaning, it's just something an incredibly tiny portion of the population have cooked up and demanded to be referred to. If you want to be a functioning member of society you have to abide by certain rules and customs, and I personally find it unreasonable for someone to demand I learn and use their made-up vocabulary just to make them feel good. If someone can demonstrate a good reason why "he/she/they" aren't enough, I'm open to changing my mind, but simply saying it'd make that person feel good isn't enough for me.
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