• 2013 Vidya Gaem Awards by 4chan
    357 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44303115]Do you So far scorpion's the only one who's actually shown a willingness to try to see where I'm coming from and I think he'd agree while we don't see eye to eye I'm not being that unreasonable[/QUOTE] If you don't think that people are willing to see where you're coming from, why are you responding to those people assuming that someone is misrepresenting you on purpose, why would they stop just because you ask? And assuming they're just misinterpreting what you're saying, why not correct that misunderstanding instead of asking them to interpret what you're saying better? i think we're getting a little off base here
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44302906]are boobs and curves necessarily something that one has to endure in the first place? i hear a lot of dudes freaking out when they see sexy men, so i guess it makes sense. i think if you want to be an artist you need to be a bit more open to different subject matters though.[/QUOTE] Why should I ever take account of people freaking out if I draw a handsome man/beautiful woman ? The whole thing boils down to "stop doing anything since everything can be offensive"
[QUOTE=ADT;44303341]Why should I ever take account of people freaking out if I draw a handsome man/beautiful woman ? The whole thing boils down to "stop doing anything since everything can be offensive"[/QUOTE] Worry not, I will fight to the death for the right of the french to draw sexy girls.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44303212]If you don't think that people are willing to see where you're coming from, why are you responding to those people assuming that someone is misrepresenting you on purpose, why would they stop just because you ask? And assuming they're just misinterpreting what you're saying, why not correct that misunderstanding instead of asking them to interpret what you're saying better? i think we're getting a little off base here[/QUOTE] Because I get riled up and flustered too easily and don't know how to let shit go. It's a problem. I said I was gonna leave like a page ago :v:
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44303104]I wish you would actually stop being a tumblr stereotype, jesus christ man do you even read what you type.[/QUOTE] Fucking lmao. Is that what we're calling a Tumblr stereotype now? Because I'm pretty sure a "Tumbr stereotype" would be someone who calls people who sit with their legs open on the subway male oppressors, but I guess we just got have violent kneejerk reactions to anyone even mentioning that sexual objectification of women in media might be a thing, especially in... [I]muh videogames![/I]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44302341]isn't there a baseline level of investigation you should do into something before complaining about it[/QUOTE] But muh tumblrs!
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44303400]Because I get riled up and flustered too easily and don't know how to let shit go. It's a problem. I said I was gonna leave like a page ago :v:[/QUOTE] I just want to know what the exact reason is behind the negative reaction to sexual material. I get the push for more women in games. I get the push against sexist attitudes and discriminatory behavior in the work place. What I don't get is the push against sexual content. People complaining about how things are too immature or too over the top, as though sexuality can only be enjoyed when depicted maturely and realistically. Then claims that it hurts women, that portrayals of sexy girls enforce sexist attitudes about women. When we look at something like Predator, a movie about a burly austrian staking vietcong insurgents to walls with bowie knives and fistfighting aliens, we seem to be able to agree that it's a fun, well made, memorable action movie. No complaints about how it's too immature because we understand it's not trying to be, no complaints about realism because we know that the world of the movie isn't realistic. We understand that it's a work of fiction that isn't directly applicable to the real world, that the soldiers in the movie are not representative of actual soldiers, nor should they be. So why do we have those problems with Dragon's Crown?
[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;44302284]Okay wow, I'm going to have to retract some of the things I said before, having finally seen the other player character designs. When I was told about the dudes in the game also being exaggerated and being covered in armor and shit, I didn't think they meant [I]this[/I]. [t]http://images.pushsquare.com/news/2011/07/5_things_you_might_not_know_about_dragons_crown/attachment/2/large.jpg[/t] Suddenly the sorceress doesn't seem so out of place.[/QUOTE] Also this is how he looks under the armor. [img]http://i.imgur.com/YoJdcF4.jpg[/img] Pmuch straight out of Ayami Kojima's notebook of how to draw men :v:
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44303547] So why do we have those problems with Dragon's Crown?[/QUOTE] Short answer: The perceived problem with sexual material does not stem from individual works, yet that's where most of the discussion is. People who say sexualizition for the sake of sexualizition is problematic like to point out that no work of art/culture exists "in a vacuum", and that commentary on a work's place in the current culture is needed/fair. On the other side you have, most of the time, 1] people defending the particular piece of work they like from, from their perspective, unfair complaints and 2] people who made a certain image of those critics their enemy (see generalizitions as [I]tumblr[/I], [I]feminazis[/I], etc) It's actually rather complex, not some people going "ew, how [I]lewd[/I]". The time spent fighting could be spent actually researching and reading stuff. [sp](lol)[/sp]
[QUOTE=Fake-XM;44303735]Short answer: The perceived problem with sexual material does not stem from individual works, yet that's where most of the discussion is. People who say sexualizition for the sake of sexualizition is problematic like to point out that no work of art/culture exists "in a vacuum", and that commentary on a work's place in the current culture is needed/fair. On the other side you have, most of the time, 1] people defending the particular piece of work they like from, from their perspective, unfair complaints and 2] people who made a certain image of those critics their enemy (see generalizitions as [I]tumblr[/I], [I]feminazis[/I], etc) It's actually rather complex, not some people going "ew, how [I]lewd[/I]". The time spent fighting could be spent actually researching and reading stuff. [sp](lol)[/sp][/QUOTE] I think there is a subtle yet important difference between commenting on a work and exploring what place it has in our society and claiming that a work is negatively influencing our society. Those are two very different conversations with entirely different implications. One is about examining society's general opinion by exploring how it interacts with art, the other is suggesting that art is the cause for society's actions and opinions. I'm fully behind the former, after all, what better way to understand someone's viewpoint than by exposing them to different ideas and seeing how they react? The latter is, in my opinion, entirely unfounded. It is what bothers me, it is what I don't fully understand.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44303822]I think there is a subtle yet important difference between commenting on a work and exploring what place it has in our society and claiming that a work is negatively influencing our society.[/QUOTE] Dunno, just sounds like different levels of (maybe also emotional) investment to me. As in, if someone thinks a certain aspect of the current society&/culture is kinda wrong and could be improved, yet cultural works keep reinforcing the aspect for no other reason than "why not?". [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44303822] One is about examining society's general opinion by exploring how it interacts with art, the other is suggesting that art is the cause for society's actions and opinions.[/QUOTE] Some would argue you'll find out more about a society based on the art it produces and what is successful, not on how it interacts with it. I don't think "art as a cause" applies here, rather the idea is that if art affirms the perceived problems, it will make it harder to progress past them. Since it also has the power to contrast itself against the current situation and can help progressing, many people feel frustrated. Now if someone disagrees with or is unaware of the problems people of that opinion talk about, it obviously all sounds like non-sense and feels like an attack. If that makes sense. idk. Best to figure it out for yourself, just gotta realize that the topics and relations are kinda big and people who are the most wrong are those who are saying "but its just gaems". (One can obviously keep it at "just games" for themselves, nobody's gonna take that away no matter how much they discuss it, but [I]dismissing[/I] all that stuff as wrong is just, ehh... idk) OH BY THE WAY, I really enjoyed the video
[QUOTE=TheCombine;44303088]Did anyone freak out over naked Raiden in MGS2?[/QUOTE] yeah actually there was a fair bit of uproar about the fairy boy raiden replacing snake and that was only further emphasized with the nude section where he showed off his effeminate body to the world the same reason that people got upset that snake was replaced with an androgynous character is the exact reason why the pointing at really bulky dudes in dragon's crown is completely ineffective it's been said time and time again that male exaggeration tends to be guided in such a way that it's designed to be a power fantasy and the debacle concerning raiden is pretty much perfect evidence of that
[QUOTE=Fake-XM;44304356]Dunno, just sounds like different levels of (maybe also emotional) investment to me. As in, if someone thinks a certain aspect of the current society&/culture is kinda wrong and could be improved, yet cultural works keep reinforcing the aspect for no other reason than "why not?". Some would argue you'll find out more about a society based on the art it produces and what is successful, not on how it interacts with it. I don't think "art as a cause" applies here, rather the idea is that if art affirms the perceived problems, it will make it harder to progress past them. Since it also has the power to contrast itself against the current situation and can help progressing, many people feel frustrated. Now if someone disagrees with or is unaware of the problems people of that opinion talk about, it obviously all sounds like non-sense and feels like an attack. If that makes sense. idk. Best to figure it out for yourself, just gotta realize that the topics and relations are kinda big and people who are the most wrong are those who are saying "but its just gaems". (One can obviously keep it at "just games" for themselves, nobody's gonna take that away no matter how much they discuss it, but [I]dismissing[/I] all that stuff as wrong is just, ehh... idk) OH BY THE WAY, I really enjoyed the video[/QUOTE] I have yet to see any evidence that watching a fictional depiction of a stereotype or concept someone happens to agree with or believe in makes them less likely to rethink their stance on that stereotype or concept. Certainly not enough has been presented to justify the confidence of the people who state such is the case. Purchasing a work of art is interaction. Art is reactive. It's created to fuel a demand from an audience. Being frustrated that art isn't being created for a nonexistant audience is ridiculous, though I do understand it on an emotional level. In practicality you're asking people to risk their livelihoods to make something they may or may not want to so that it can possibly maybe make changing people's mind about a sociological issue slightly easier, which is just ludicrous. I agree that the subject of gender politics is complicated. That would be part of why I'm so bothered by off hand black and white blanket statements like "sexualization harms women". [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=BrickInHead;44304806]yeah actually there was a fair bit of uproar about the fairy boy raiden replacing snake and that was only further emphasized with the nude section where he showed off his effeminate body to the world the same reason that people got upset that snake was replaced with an androgynous character is the exact reason why the pointing at really bulky dudes in dragon's crown is completely ineffective it's been said time and time again that male exaggeration tends to be guided in such a way that it's designed to be a power fantasy and the debacle concerning raiden is pretty much perfect evidence of that[/QUOTE] Raiden was specifically designed to make you not want to play as him and want to be snake instead and he wasn't just an effeminate waif, he was also a half witted whiny incompetent brooding loud mouthed clumsy buffoon who tried and failed to take control of multiple tense situations by waving his gun around while screaming like an eight year old his looks also weren't designed to be the opposite of a power fantasy, they were designed to appeal more to a female audience. And he fits the bill of a bishonen idol posterboy, so yeah, fits to me. note that when gamers are given an actual 14 year old girl to play as they aren't anywhere near as negative context is important, yo
[QUOTE=Fake-XM;44303735] People who say sexualizition for the sake of sexualizition is problematic like[/QUOTE] The fact that feminists are forming alliances with puritan type conservatives is terrifying.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44304893]Raiden was specifically designed to make you not want to play as him and want to be snake instead and he wasn't just an effeminate waif, he was also a half witted whiny incompetent brooding loud mouthed clumsy buffoon who tried and failed to take control of multiple tense situations by waving his gun around while screaming like an eight year old his looks also weren't designed to be the opposite of a power fantasy, they were designed to appeal more to a female audience. And he fits the bill of a bishonen idol posterboy, so yeah, fits to me. note that when gamers are given an actual 14 year old girl to play as they aren't anywhere near as negative context is important, yo[/QUOTE] let's recap we go from snake who is calm cool and collected (aka, "rational and logical") and move towards someone who is whiny, incompetent, loud mouthed, failed at taking control in numerous situations - all things traditionally associated with being [I]stereo-typically[/I] not male and by extension, female. it's genuinely moving from an archetypal hardcore male power fantasy to a limp dicked whiny gay boy filled with femininity, talking about [I]feelings[/I] the entire time throughout the course of the game. that is one of the [I]main[/I] criticisms of raiden's character. i agree context is very important. while that might not have resonated with you as the reason, that is the primary reason that most people complain about raiden. they call him a bitch. the intentions of the author don't matter for shit, it matters how it's perceived by the public. the power fantasy is a real thing, whether or not you acknowledge it simply reflects how ingrained it is into our collective social psyche and re: the last point, it's something called relative deprivation. pretty common basic psych. transmission from a (hard) male to a (whiny bitch) male, you're going to get frustration. in playing as a female character there is no expectation raised to act manly, thus, no deprivation in expectations and no frustration
[QUOTE=RichyZ;44305087]naked raiden was basically the same as normal raiden same w/ snake ass[/QUOTE] Snake [I]did[/I] have a fantastic ass.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;44305059]let's recap we go from snake who is calm cool and collected (aka, "rational and logical") and move towards someone who is whiny, incompetent, loud mouthed, failed at taking control in numerous situations - all things traditionally associated with being [I]stereo-typically[/I] not male and by extension, female. it's genuinely moving from an archetypal hardcore male power fantasy to a limp dicked whiny gay boy filled with femininity, talking about [I]feelings[/I] the entire time throughout the course of the game. that is one of the [I]main[/I] criticisms of raiden's character. i agree context is very important. while that might not have resonated with you as the reason, that is the primary reason that most people complain about raiden. they call him a bitch. the intentions of the author don't matter for shit, it matters how it's perceived by the public. the power fantasy is a real thing, whether or not you acknowledge it simply reflects how ingrained it is into our collective social psyche and re: the last point, it's something called relative deprivation. pretty common basic psych. transmission from a (hard) male to a (whiny bitch) male, you're going to get frustration. in playing as a female character there is no expectation raised to act manly, thus, no deprivation in expectations and no frustration[/QUOTE] so raiden represents feminity, not Olga or Fortune, the two actual women and because he isn't like Snake, he's automatically a more feminine character, and because of that he demonstrates men don't like to play feminine characters I'm going to make a controversial judgement call, but how about this maybe the reason people want to play as Snake in MGS isn't because they only want to play as big strong manly men, maybe it's because they want to play as a character capable of making logical decisions and having an impact on the story, and not an incompetent doof and last I checked, being an incompetent doof is not a uniquely female trait. It certainly isn't the norm for women in MGS. And there's a much simpler term for "relative deprevation" in art. It's called pulling a bait and switch. And the reason people are frustrated isn't because they're "transitioning from a 'hard' male to a 'whiny' male", it's because they're robbed of catharsis and immersion in the world. It's a pretty simple rule of storytelling.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44304893]I have yet to see any evidence that watching a fictional depiction of a stereotype or concept someone happens to agree with or believe in makes them less likely to rethink their stance on that stereotype or concept.[/quote] I'm not someone who piles up evidence because I tend to just form my own opinion and move on without trying to convince people who are happy with theirs, so I can't provide any. But I have always been under the impression that's how it works. All that advertising-money that's being spent on selling ideas, it could all be saved if people aren't affected by it. That's the most telling concrete example I can think of at the moment. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44304893] Art is reactive. It's created to fuel a demand from an audience.[/quote] Well, some of it. Many things are made. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44304893]Being frustrated that art isn't being created for a nonexistant audience is ridiculous, though I do understand it on an emotional level. In practicality you're asking people to risk their livelihoods to make something they may or may not want to so that it can possibly maybe make changing people's mind about a sociological issue slightly easier, which is just ludicrous.[/quote] I typed a couple of things about this but kept deleting it again and again because I can't phrase this, I'm not good with words, so please just think about that again, you're saying it sells because of those aspects and that every person who does not agree with it is not and will never be part of the audience. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44304893]That would be part of why I'm so bothered by off hand black and white blanket statements like "sexualization harms women". [/QUOTE] Which brings us back to "individual work vs entire context". About MGS: Wasn't the MGS2 stuff about how it's a sequel and how Raiden tries to be Snake, but obviously isn't Snake, etc etc. IIRC there are very long analysis-texts about MGS2.
[QUOTE=Fake-XM;44305692]I'm not someone who piles up evidence because I tend to just form my own opinion and move on without trying to convince people who are happy with theirs, so I can't provide any. But I have always been under the impression that's how it works. All that advertising-money that's being spent on selling ideas, it could all be saved if people aren't affected by it. That's the most telling concrete example I can think of at the moment. Well, some of it. Many things are made. I typed a couple of things about this but kept deleting it again and again because I can't phrase this, I'm not good with words, so please just think about that again, you're saying it sells because of those aspects and that every person who does not agree with it is not and will never be part of the audience. Which brings us back to "individual work vs entire context". About MGS: Wasn't the MGS2 stuff about how it's a sequel and how Raiden tries to be Snake, but obviously isn't Snake, etc etc. IIRC there are very long analysis-texts about MGS2.[/QUOTE] You advertise so that the audience that will buy your product will know that your product exists. If someone doesn't like something, they aren't suddenly going to like it because it's advertised. The difference of course is when advertising actively deceives the person viewing it. But even if a cigarette ad tells someone who is otherwise uneducated that cigarettes are healthy, that isn't advertising subtly influencing someone's opinion, that's advertising actively providing misinformation masquerading as fact. Many things are made, yes, but the majority follows the demands of known audiences. Of course there's experimentation, but you'll find that games like that are far more high risk than more 'generic' stuff. And so 'generic' stuff will always be more common. There are tons of great anime studios, and tons of different kinds of anime. But the generic crap is what gets bought on a regular basis, so to make the experimental stuff studios have to rely on the income from generic stuff. This is how it works and has worked in practically every industry and medium in history. Don't worry about it. I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, feel free to correct me. I think that specific kinds of content appeal to specific audiences. I don't think it's possible to make an audience dislike something if they honestly enjoy it, and I don't think it's possible to make someone like something they honestly dislike. Progression in art comes from connecting to new audiences, not altering old ones. If you can't get the audience that would buy a certain kind of content to buy it, you can't continue making that content. It's not that they'll never buy it, but beats me how you get them to. If getting another audience to stop buying a certain kind of content is a prerequisite to getting a new audience, then I can tell you straight you'll never get them. MGS2 was this whole thing about self determination and being yourself instead of emulating others etc. . . it boils down to you playing as a complete wannabe poser while someone else does all the work.
Putting forward Raiden as an example of players not wanting to play as non-manly men is also interesting if you take into account the character's evolution and change in audience opinion that came with it. Nowadays we're pretty much at the tail end of a 180; [i]Everyone[/i] likes Raiden. But he didn't get more manly. He's actually much more literally androgynous, since his body now lacks any sexual traits whatsoever. But he did grow into his own unique and fun character, in contrast to his beginnings of "Guy who wants to be Snake but isn't good at it." Contrast Dante/"Donte", where the audience turned against a character because he moved [i]away[/i] from a "white haired pretty boy" look and cranked up typical masculine traits like abrasiveness and aggression.
[QUOTE=Pennywise;44306417]Putting forward Raiden as an example of players not wanting to play as non-manly men is also interesting if you take into account the character's evolution and change in audience opinion that came with it. Nowadays we're pretty much at the tail end of a 180; [i]Everyone[/i] likes Raiden. But he didn't get more manly. He's actually much more literally androgynous, since his body now lacks any sexual traits whatsoever. But he did grow into his own unique and fun character, in contrast to his beginnings of "Guy who wants to be Snake but isn't good at it." Contrast Dante/"Donte", where the audience turned against a character because he moved [i]away[/i] from a "white haired pretty boy" look and cranked up typical masculine traits like abrasiveness and aggression.[/QUOTE] I was going to bring this up, but I just assumed he would say becoming stronger and more self dependent are inherently male traits so it doesn't count I didn't even think of the Dante/Donte thing though, that's a pretty good example. One could also bring up Garret, who started out as a gothy skulker in makeup and transformed into Corvo jr.
I feel like every time I see the /V/GAs I can see that there's this growing counterculture opposed to the mainstream video game industry, that has serious valid points deep under it's surface trying to reach out and turn heads, but it's just layered with absurdity, raw unhinged humor and potentially alienating opinions which make it easy for people outside of 4chan and other similar sites to just dismiss the whole thing as junk, hate-filled, bigoted, etc. I mean, there's people on /v/ that, when they complain about the state of the industry, they back it up with reasoned discussion and points, like research on game journalists, critique on mechanics and story in particular games, etc. but then in the same thread you'll get someone proclaiming the virtues of a game about getting raped by monsters. Look at that Megaman community manager fiasco: Originally the cause was to remove her because she had never played Megaman and is now in charge of managing the people who love the game without having any background in it, and then it got spun into women-hatred because some dumbasses co-opted the movement with their hatred, and now the subject can't be brought up without accusations of misogyny. Basically, 4chan is making any discussion about femininity in video games to turn into accusations of women hatred. You can't create an opposing opinion without being accused of being an MRA (a movement which has completely destroyed any hope of addressing male issues without being labeled anti-female), even if you're arguing positively in favor of better gender representation. Thus we get Tropes vs. Video Games as a beacon of feminism instead of an ignorant view of the medium perpetuated with distorted, anti-sex, radical feminism. 4chan threw so much shit at her that any reasonable critique was drowned out by idiots who called her names and demeaned her gender. At the same time, any mention of the review industry being corrupt is tossed aside as conspiracy or just ignored as a "fact of life" and 4chan isn't making any ground by verbally harassing reviewers and raiding voting polls. I'd love to see some kind of schism of 4chan happen again, where this time the backwards nature of /v/, it's bigotry, racism, misogyny, and other preconceived and ignorantly clouded judgements, gets left behind while what's left, this underground, alternative view to the video game industry, emerges. A community that proposes critique and skepticism from an intelligent vantage point, makes valid points about subjects that have been too sacred to touch like gender representation in the medium and ethics of video game journalism, etc. without coming off as misogynist, ignorant, and hate-filled, and just overall acts as a check on the growing nature of the medium from the perspective of someone who isn't part of the industry. Basically, I'd love for some kind of community where one could intelligently deconstruct the medium and culture without it being filled with typical 4chan culture.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44304964]The fact that feminists are forming alliances with puritan type conservatives is terrifying.[/QUOTE] Wait where is this happening? Most self-identifying feminists that hold actual positions of power have nothing to do with the SJ movement, and even if they did they're not stupid enough to overlook the whole "Abortion should not be allowed for rape victims also sometimes rape is okay" thing they've championed.
[QUOTE=SleepyAl;44307123]I'd love to see some kind of schism of 4chan happen again, where this time the backwards nature of /v/, it's bigotry, racism, misogyny, and other preconceived and ignorantly clouded judgements, gets left behind while what's left, this underground, alternative view to the video game industry, emerges. A community that proposes critique and skepticism from an intelligent vantage point, makes valid points about subjects that have been too sacred to touch like gender representation in the medium and ethics of video game journalism, etc. without coming off as misogynist, ignorant, and hate-filled, and just overall acts as a check on the growing nature of the medium from the perspective of someone who isn't part of the industry. Basically, I'd love for some kind of community where one could intelligently deconstruct the medium and culture without it being filled with typical 4chan culture.[/QUOTE] have fun with any of that happening ever tho all of that is true, and /v/ gets shit on way too often, ive had tons of good discussions on there
[QUOTE=Furnost;44307320]have fun with any of that happening ever tho all of that is true, and /v/ gets shit on way too often, ive had tons of good discussions on there[/QUOTE] This. While they certainly aren't very kind the discussions on there are quite interesting from time to time. Atleast they don't think Video Games are sexually opressing women. They may be biased towards men but that's kind of a marketing decision since most players are men and defenitely not to push the "male patriarchy". Everybody who likes this meaningless discussion should just make a Tumblr account, they'll fit right in.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44304964]The fact that feminists are forming alliances with puritan type conservatives is terrifying.[/QUOTE] You're acting as though feminists want [B]every [/B]female character in video games to be strong, complex, and independent, and never to be sexualized. What feminists actually want is a variety of female characters in games of all personalities and body types, so that women aren't portrayed [B][I]almost exclusively[/I][/B] as subordinate sex objects. They don't want to remove skimpy, overtly sexual armor for females from games; they want male and female characters to have the same degree of variance with regards to how sexually or asexually they are depicted. In essence, we want male and female characters to have roughly the same potential level of depth, variety, and sexuality in gaming — and currently, they don't. [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] Wouldn't it be nice if female characters in games weren't always the same archetype? Video games are slowly heading down that way (I'm thinking of The Walking Dead S2, The Last of Us, Remember Me to a certain extent)... so why the kneejerk reaction to what is being said in this thread? [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] (that last part does go for men too, to a smaller extent... I yearn for the day where protagonists won't be little more than Generic Army Veteran #7,421 who-has-left-the-army but is suddenly called back because he-is-the-one-for-the-job)
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44307915]You're acting as though feminists want [B]every [/B]female character in video games to be strong, complex, and independent, and never to be sexualized. What feminists actually want is a variety of female characters in games of all personalities and body types, so that women aren't portrayed [B][I]almost exclusively[/I][/B] as subordinate sex objects. They don't want to remove skimpy, overtly sexual armor for females from games; they want male and female characters to have the same degree of variance with regards to how sexually or asexually they are depicted. In essence, we want male and female characters to have roughly the same potential level of depth, variety, and sexuality in gaming — and currently, they don't. [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] Wouldn't it be nice if female characters in games weren't always the same archetype? Video games are slowly heading down that way (I'm thinking of The Walking Dead S2, The Last of Us, Remember Me to a certain extent)... so why the kneejerk reaction to what is being said in this thread? [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] (that last part does go for men too, to a smaller extent... I yearn for the day where protagonists won't be little more than Generic Army Veteran #7,421 who-has-left-the-army but is suddenly called back because he-is-the-one-for-the-job)[/QUOTE] If people are cool with artists creating with what they already create and just want more variety added to the greater artistic mileau, then I don't have any complaints. That what I want too, that's all I've ever wanted. My ideal world is one in which all stories have equal opportunity to be told. A future in which creators don't have to compromise their vision for financial security, that's something I think we can all believe in.
Variety in character design has actually decreased over the years and game devs are being pressured to ignore it and copy respected "mature" mediums like cinema while at the same time developing for popular genres like shooters and hybridized RPGs. But when the role an FPS protagonist can play is limited to shooting things, there's not much inspiration cinema can provide beyond "he's a marine".
Complain about Quiet in MGS all you want, Kojima is great at making supremely balanced and pretty great female characters. They have depth and aren't just their appearance. [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] Also, they can all fucking kill you. Except Rose. Fuck Rose.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44307915]You're acting as though feminists want [B]every [/B]female character in video games to be strong, complex, and independent, and never to be sexualized. What feminists actually want is a variety of female characters in games of all personalities and body types, so that women aren't portrayed [B][I]almost exclusively[/I][/B] as subordinate sex objects. They don't want to remove skimpy, overtly sexual armor for females from games; they want male and female characters to have the same degree of variance with regards to how sexually or asexually they are depicted. In essence, we want male and female characters to have roughly the same potential level of depth, variety, and sexuality in gaming — and currently, they don't.[/quote] What I find funny is that it's far more easier to feminists/SJ people to complain on the Internet all day (as they believe they hold any kind of influence) instead of making their way into whichever industry and thus striving to the top in order to "fix the issues" and to make their own stuff in return. Of course that would dedicate effort and talent in order to do that
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