• Modern Educayshun
    62 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zet;49100274]I dunno what to think really. I've watched Indoctrinate U, and videos coming out of universities(in the US) of groups being radical. While I don't like slurs, I believe people should have the right to say them. With correct pronouns, unless it really bothers them, they won't correct you or anything until you find out after a while once you get to know them better. I've really only seen SJWs used correctly such as the tantrum video at Yale, protest against speakers at Universities where the protesters want them outright banned from speaking and having a different opinion. I don't understand how you can have such faith in an internet forum to show great respect for anything. There's always going to be assholes, trolls, people who have a different opinon, "I was just pretending to be retarded", and people who share same views as you. This video was a great example of taking the piss out of people who are a bit radical when it comes to safe spaces and wanting to remove the intellectual learning from education.[/QUOTE] Okay but if your around a group of people and you say a slur (for instance, tranny) and they get angry and upset you can see why. I just think, if your going to say something with intent to offend, your best to say it to a small group of people you know won't be offended. And while some (like myself) aren't too pushy about pronouns, others are, and honestly if they ask for correctness, then you should, it's just common courtesy SJW used correctly is something I don't really mind, but I'm referring to just throwing it around. I'd prefer using the terms "radicalist" because they don't represent most uni groups, but this is a free world and country, so use whatever you want. I never had faith I just wanted people to not be so aggressive and mean when I was being nice to them. I don't like getting mad and I don't like making mistakes, if I fuck up I'll correct myself immediately. I don't know. Don't really have a problem with LGBTQI+ and women safespaces, uni campus theft/rape/sexual assault at night happens a bit and I see why they come in handy. But I don't like how LGBTQI+ safespaces sometimes exclude bisexuals/pansexuals and I don't like how some women safespaces disregard transgendered people from being allowed. I also think men should be allowed to have one, just common sense really.
what's a safe space?
Funny, I was just reading about MU's attempt at a new required "diversity course" that every student must take in order to graduate. A "cultural competency" course is also mentioned at Lincoln University in Jefferson City. Some descriptions of the course from the official report about it: - A class similar to what they want is officially described as: "The purpose of this course is to examine cultural diversity in U.S. Society, to increase self-awareness related to worldviews and beliefs about diversity issues, and to increase understanding of the intersections of multiple group identities." - "And it is impossible to designate the distribution of topics to be covered in multiple courses because that will wipe out all of the “Distribution of content” and will not adequately address the intersectionality issues... they MUST cover the full distributions of marginalized groups and intersectionalities." Some other gems: - All new students must go through: "training program that addresses the issue of racism at Mizzou, informs them of our campus’ many diverse organizations and resources, and emphasizes each student’s responsibility to be inclusive while they are at the university. Students will be ineligible to enroll in classes without successfully completing this training." - "Every person who is responsible for hiring faculty and staff on this campus will be required to complete training to ensure that we are fully considering diversity when we recruit for positions on campus." Sources: [url]https://transparency.missouri.edu/2015/10/21/15/[/url] [url]https://transparency.missouri.edu/2015/10/14/proposal-for-a-diversity-requirement-update/[/url] [url]https://transparency.missouri.edu/2015/10/08/diversity-and-inclusion-training/[/url]
[QUOTE=Slim Charles;49100477]what's a safe space?[/QUOTE] A place with bully-proof windows, troll-safe doors, and nothing but kindness. There are meant for people who are feeling scared to go to by whatever is distressing them.
Essentially Tumblr "Hug-Boxes" but in real life, so.. yeah. edit: Oh cool [url=https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Hugbox]Encyclopedia-Dramatica has a super relevant thing on the term under "in the internets".[/url]
[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;49097820]Thinking about it, it's kinda ridiculous, but something like this could actually happen. Look at universities. Look at small news sites. Look at Anita. This shit is spreading, homewer slowly. That's kinda worrisome.[/QUOTE] What do you mean "could" happen. It already has you silly person.
[QUOTE=cdr248;49099844]Regardless of whether they change their opinions, they'll probably find it hard to get into any position of power to establish an actual New World Order that this video envisions, there's simply not enough people to support them on that level, especially with how government works to favor middle-aged rich white men with the power to impeach any totalitarian feminist president that might want to flip american society on its head. Out of all the issues in the world right now, some radical feminists are not the ones we need to focus on. And if they ever do get to that point, we'll be lllloooooong fucking dead.[/QUOTE] They're a lot more influential than right-wing figures now, I have yet to see Paul Elam attend the UN like Anita Sarkessian or offer a Ted Talk like David Futrelle.
[QUOTE=Slim Charles;49100477]what's a safe space?[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;sXQkXXBqj_U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U[/video]
[QUOTE=Rossy167;49098612]Killer900 I'm in sixth form, and that video wasn't a college/university environment. Seemed more classroom to me. [/QUOTE] What is university like to you? Lecture theatres 24/7? Lol [editline]12th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Slim Charles;49100477]what's a safe space?[/QUOTE] Something that should've never happened and should never be mentioned.
Funny because at the college I go to, "safe spaces" are for LGBT students to talk to teachers/faculty and even find ways to be recommended therapists/psychiatrists. But no, haha, safe spaces are only for big ol' pussies, innit!
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49101707]Funny because at the college I go to, "safe spaces" are for LGBT students to talk to teachers/faculty and even find ways to be recommended therapists/psychiatrists. But no, haha, safe spaces are only for big ol' pussies, innit![/QUOTE] Except we're not talking about single rooms or a couple rooms being safe spaces, we're talking about people demanding that entire universities be safe spaces and that university lecturers never say anything that remotely could be construed as offensive.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49101707]Funny because at the college I go to, "safe spaces" are for LGBT students to talk to teachers/faculty and even find ways to be recommended therapists/psychiatrists. But no, haha, safe spaces are only for big ol' pussies, innit![/QUOTE] Except that's clearly not what people are referring to?
[QUOTE=elowin;49101812]Except that's clearly not what people are referring to?[/QUOTE] Except everyone was idiotically replying to someone asking for a definition without being clear. download's definition came after half a page of stupid posts.
[QUOTE=Slim Charles;49100477]what's a safe space?[/QUOTE] A place where people of certain groups can go to if they feel vulnerable and get advice on things where they can feel comfortable asking It's not a hugbox at all. But I would like to see the whole safespace movement expand beyond LGBTQI+ and women honestly. Men could use safespaces when they feel depressed/anxious about something. [editline]13th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=download;49101725]Except we're not talking about single rooms or a couple rooms being safe spaces, we're talking about people demanding that entire universities be safe spaces and that university lecturers never say anything that remotely could be construed as offensive.[/QUOTE] Nobody should feel threatened to attend uni, nobody should feel like they'll be raped or sexually assuaged either. On the topic of "everything is offensive", only a small vocal fraction share this common perception that literally everything is offensive. It's not right to say that socialist/feminist groups on campus find everything to be offensive, there's just factions in these groups that do. I've experienced some of this when I was apart of a pretty grossly fucked up underground Brisbane feminist movement that was controlled by closet rape sympathisers trying to extort people for money (the socialist movement and feminist movement in Brisbane will give money away to anybody because they trust each other too much), where they would find me speaking about issues offensive simply because I'm white. But I never generalised the entire movement due to my experiences, I just knew they were a very out of place group that clearly showed the horseshoe theory in practice
Do people really think that this stuff is anything other than a right wing persecution fantasy? I've seen people people say all manner of racist, sexist things in college classes and all the teacher did was ask if anyone had differing opinions, at which point other students respectfully voiced their disagreement. "Political correctness" certainly doesn't/couldn't affect classes in maths and sciences, even if you think it has an effect in social sciences and liberal arts. And of course people will be angry if you say rude or disrespectful things to/about other people, but that's true anywhere in life, not just in education.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49101938]A place where people of certain groups can go to if they feel vulnerable and get advice on things where they can feel comfortable asking It's not a hugbox at all. But I would like to see the whole safespace movement expand beyond LGBTQI+ and women honestly. Men could use safespaces when they feel depressed/anxious about something. [editline]13th November 2015[/editline] Nobody should feel threatened to attend uni, nobody should feel like they'll be raped or sexually assuaged either. On the topic of "everything is offensive", only a small vocal fraction share this common perception that literally everything is offensive. It's not right to say that socialist/feminist groups on campus find everything to be offensive, there's just factions in these groups that do. I've experienced some of this when I was apart of a pretty grossly fucked up underground Brisbane feminist movement that was controlled by closet rape sympathisers trying to extort people for money (the socialist movement and feminist movement in Brisbane will give money away to anybody because they trust each other too much), where they would find me speaking about issues offensive simply because I'm white. But I never generalised the entire movement due to my experiences, I just knew they were a very out of place group that clearly showed the horseshoe theory in practice[/QUOTE] There have been some cases where speakers have been barred from prestigious universities from having problematic views. [editline]12th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Baboo00;49102792]Do people really think that this stuff is anything other than a right wing persecution fantasy? I've seen people people say all manner of racist, sexist things in college classes and all the teacher did was ask if anyone had differing opinions, at which point other students respectfully voiced their disagreement. "Political correctness" certainly doesn't/couldn't affect classes in maths and sciences, even if you think it has an effect in social sciences and liberal arts. And of course people will be angry if you say rude or disrespectful things to/about other people, but that's true anywhere in life, not just in education.[/QUOTE] The issue is when they stretch their criteria to include "violations" like mansplaining and microaggressions. Sometimes when the terms are consistent, but there are plenty of times when the terms aren't properly. Slurs and proper pronouns are very easy to fix, but it only leads them into assuming that you have an implicit motive to regress society because of your identity. You can repeatedly criticize non-progressive figures like Rush Limbaugh, Ben Carson, and Martin Skrelli for their views, but you can't do that with figures like Bernie Sanders or Justin Trudeau because people will lazily assume that you are anti-progressive.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49100429]Okay but if your around a group of people and you say a slur (for instance, tranny) and they get angry and upset you can see why. I just think, if your going to say something with intent to offend, your best to say it to a small group of people you know won't be offended. And while some (like myself) aren't too pushy about pronouns, others are, and honestly if they ask for correctness, then you should, it's just common courtesy SJW used correctly is something I don't really mind, but I'm referring to just throwing it around. I'd prefer using the terms "radicalist" because they don't represent most uni groups, but this is a free world and country, so use whatever you want. I never had faith I just wanted people to not be so aggressive and mean when I was being nice to them. I don't like getting mad and I don't like making mistakes, if I fuck up I'll correct myself immediately. I don't know. Don't really have a problem with LGBTQI+ and women safespaces, uni campus theft/rape/sexual assault at night happens a bit and I see why they come in handy. But I don't like how LGBTQI+ safespaces sometimes exclude bisexuals/pansexuals and I don't like how some women safespaces disregard transgendered people from being allowed. I also think men should be allowed to have one, just common sense really.[/QUOTE] This whole post seems so foreign to me. I don't get any of these struggles. It just feels like people urged victims to bullying to speak up and now they speak up even if it isn't bullying to the point the victims are a larger group than the bullies and now the roles are reversed. I feel like the pendulum might've been pushed a bit too far.
Methinks it's satire on ppl who actually believe that social justice warriors are destroying society.
[QUOTE=Baboo00;49102792]Do people really think that this stuff is anything other than a right wing persecution fantasy? I've seen people people say all manner of racist, sexist things in college classes and all the teacher did was ask if anyone had differing opinions, at which point other students respectfully voiced their disagreement. "Political correctness" certainly doesn't/couldn't affect classes in maths and sciences, even if you think it has an effect in social sciences and liberal arts. And of course people will be angry if you say rude or disrespectful things to/about other people, but that's true anywhere in life, not just in education.[/QUOTE] It's not just people on the right who complain about it though, many people on the left have had personal experiences of it. There is a push for anti-intellectualism where you aren't allowed to question the establishment within certain political circles, I'd argue that it actually almost exclusively affects people on the left and in social sciences because they are more likely to occupy those political circles and that leftist people and those in social sciences are the main groups of people who complain about it. Just because right-wingers picked it up and started using it to attack the left, like they do with literally everything, doesn't mean it isn't an issue. Leftists do the same thing too, you know? Surely you've noticed how anything that a leftist political pundit doesn't like gets labeled "conservative" or something similar? Even when it doesn't make any sense, like death metal is apparently "conservative" now. Political Pundits do things like that because most people don't read between the lines and just take everything they're told as fact, and left-wing political pundits are just as bad as right-wing political pundits. Radicalism in the left is a serious issue, it undermines everything we've worked so hard to achieve. Liberals should be finding new ways to foster discussion, but instead we see people trying to shut down discussion in places like universities and left-wing media outlets in order to create more effective political narratives. The left should be better than the right, not stooping down to their level. I don't think this is world-ending stuff right here, but radicalism is an issue, especially if we let it get out of control by sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist. You may not agree with what I'm saying, and that's fine. However, we should be allowed to have this discussion that we're having now on other platforms besides a gaming forum on the internet and at the moment that's not really possible. The reality is what I'm saying right now would not be acceptable in many public places, I don't think I'm saying anything offensive (and I'm sure you'll tell me if that is the case), but questioning the main left-wing establishment on university campuses, in the media or on many public forums like I am now will most likely have you banned or sanctioned for anything running the gambit of having "problematic views" to "victim blaming", "misogyny", "internalized misogyny" or being a "race traitor", most likely you just won't be allowed to speak at all and they won't tell you the reason. The whole point of this isn't that one side is right and the other side is wrong, it's that one side has the entire platform and the other isn't allowed to argue. This isn't a discussion over the tenants of modern social justice, it's an argument over whether we're even allowed to have that discussion. Should people be able to criticize a social movement without being labeled and shamed and not allowed to speak? Should members of said movement be allowed to be self-criticial without being ousted and barred from asking questions? I would hope your answer is "duh, obviously". In which case, radicalism is a negative influence on that priority to allow people to criticize the movement and for the movement to be able to criticize itself. Radicalism is the effort to make the social movement exclusionary as opposed to inclusive. It is the antithesis to modern liberalism. It is a serious issue. [video=youtube;XHI2PYzY27I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHI2PYzY27I[/video] [video=youtube;BMlLq6amdf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMlLq6amdf0&list=WL&index=123[/video] This woman went to a women's studies course in order to see what they were teaching and if there were a wide range of viewpoints being presented. This kind of anti-intellectualism isn't limited to the internet: [video=youtube;JowiDnuBTHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JowiDnuBTHU[/video]
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;49103661]Methinks it's satire on ppl who actually believe that social justice warriors are destroying society.[/QUOTE] Based on their previous video, I'm inclined to disagree. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM-HJT8_esM[/media] I think it's just strawmanning for the sake of comedy. I love both videos, but I hope they don't become locked into just this one subject.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49101707] But no, haha, safe spaces are only for big ol' pussies, innit![/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/4NrBIQ5.png[/t] Safe space can easily shift from "don't be a dick" to "don't disagree with us".
[QUOTE=Saber15;49105182]Based on their previous video, I'm inclined to disagree. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM-HJT8_esM[/media] I think it's just strawmanning for the sake of comedy. I love both videos, but I hope they don't become locked into just this one subject.[/QUOTE] You know what would be hilarious? If we got loads of people on the internet to ironically act like the people in that video just to show how unsustainable it is. [url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/05/i-thought-i-knew-what-it-meant-to-be-a-man-then-i-transitioned-into-one]Like if some faux intellectual starts talking about how oppressed they are because a random railroad employee wouldn't carry their luggage for them on request[/url]... [QUOTE]Running through Penn Station in New York City, sweating and out of breath I was moments away from dropping my four huge duffle bags and missing my train. I saw an Amtrak employee, flagged him down and hurriedly asked him to help me get my bags to the gate. “Help you with your bags?” He looked at me with disgust, then rolled his eyes and walked away. I stood there confused and embarrassed, wondering what I could have done that was so offensive. Did I break some man code about asking for help?[/QUOTE] ...you could play along and offer to let them step on your face and stuff until it gets to the point of ridiculousness. The funny thing is, they'd probably go along with it for awhile until it becomes obvious they're being trolled, but by that point they've already revealed how shallow and self-absorbed they are. A few people did this in the comment section and I thought it was pretty funny.
[QUOTE=Killer900;49098564]No it's a very real thing obviously, otherwise why would he make a video like this? Why would comedian Jerry Seinfeld say he won't do stand-up at colleges because people there these days get too offended? Why would the President himself have to chime in on people being too politically correct and getting overly offended on college campuses? And correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure this guy has been to college, are you? Are they? Or do you think that because you don't agree with the video? Is that why it has over 16,000 likes versus under 500 dislikes and that majority of comments have hundreds of like each? Instead you picked one joke comment over the hundreds of other comments that are actually dead on and label them all embarrasing. nah probably just /pol/ right, not that people are actually really tired of hearing about PC in college and people's feeling getting hurt over stupid shit[/QUOTE] ... I'm of college age and I talk to a lot of my highschool friends who come back for the summer/winter. This is literally not a thing that happens. The video was just cringey.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;49118214]... I'm of college age and I talk to a lot of my highschool friends who come back for the summer/winter. This is literally not a thing that happens. The video was just cringey.[/QUOTE] You might not see it, but your personal experience is not representative of everyone else's. Just because you have not had a specific personal experience doesn't mean that nobody else has. Your personal anecdote does not debunk anything the person you replied to talked about, nor anything else in this thread.
There goes my hopes of getting into college...
you guys have no testosterone or something jesus [editline]15th November 2015[/editline] stop taking life so fucking seriously
[QUOTE=Rubs10;49118214]... I'm of college age and I talk to a lot of my highschool friends who come back for the summer/winter. This is literally not a thing that happens. The video was just cringey.[/QUOTE] I have not personally experienced something, therefore it does not exist. Solid reasoning skills
[QUOTE=Zyler;49118263]You might not see it, but your personal experience is not representative of everyone else's. Just because you have not had a specific personal experience doesn't mean that nobody else has. Your personal anecdote does not debunk anything the person you replied to talked about, nor anything else in this thread.[/QUOTE] oh sorry I didn't realize there was anything to debunk, since they didn't actually provide any evidence of anything, other than other people's experiences. Someone made a video? That's great, some twits made Gods Not Dead, which is getting a sequel with a theater release. That doesn't mean catholic persecution is an issue in the US. Jerry Seinfeld thinks they're too easily offended? That's great, it doesn't stop the entertainment sector from being overwhelmingly feminist. Obama chimes in on a lot of issues, and he didn't exactly make some statement about how this is some growing threat to student education or culture. Because it's not.
Oh come on you guys, the entire point of this skit is to show how idiotically stupid it is to apply this kind of logic to reality. It shows that in it's current form it could not become the status quo due to how dysfunctionally broken everything would be. It's not meant to point out how classrooms don't work any more due to political correctness, it's not meant to disprove feminism forever, it's just meant to poke fun and think "What if everyone followed the rules of those overly-sensitive douchebags?"
[QUOTE=Devodiere;49119785]Oh come on you guys, the entire point of this skit is to show how idiotically stupid it is to apply this kind of logic to reality. It shows that in it's current form it could not become the status quo due to how dysfunctionally broken everything would be. It's not meant to point out how classrooms don't work any more due to political correctness, it's not meant to disprove feminism forever, it's just meant to poke fun and think "What if everyone followed the rules of those overly-sensitive douchebags?"[/QUOTE] Yeah it's not like people have ever let absolutely retarded rules govern them before. Except for all the times we did. Something that doesn't work can become the status quo for a short period of time.
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