Black Lives Matter Leader Robbed At Gunpoint; Asks For More Police - General

[QUOTE=jonoPorter;51049422]Why have a racist name like Black Lives Matter anyway? Would All Lives Matter not be more fitting?[/QUOTE] What they're doing is seeing a problem with police brutality and institutionalized racism and saying "Hey, we matter." They're not saying ONLY, there is no implied ONLY. They know everyone matters, that's kinda the point of the name, but they feel like the system doesn't think they matter and want the same status as everyone else. When people say "All lives matter" it's taking away from their message that black people are marginalized and should matter as much as any other life and instead pretends there's no problem or insists that the black community isn't allowed to protest injustices made against them unless they also champion everything else (Which is infeasible).

can we get back to the matter at hand where university campuses aren't even being patrolled by some form of protective enforcement like fuck get some regular guards or something, if you have a bunch of student apartment complexes next to each other with no cops, its going to be a criminal's lucky day.

[QUOTE=God of Ashes;51050373]lemme break this down, black lives matter means all lives matter. when you have an organization like save the polar bears, their mission is to save something that's believed to be threatened and in danger. They aren't also preaching "hey fuck every other kind of bear out there this is the only one that matters". Polar bears are just disproportionately more threatened due to climate change and habitat loss.[/QUOTE] Black Lives Matter does not mean All Lives Matter. It also does not mean black lives are the only lives that matter, but for the purposes of this particular organization the focus is on black lives. That can still be argued to be racist, however.

[QUOTE=elowin;51050812]Black Lives Matter does not mean All Lives Matter. It also does not mean black lives are the only lives that matter, but for the purposes of this particular organization the focus is on black lives. That can still be argued to be racist, however.[/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/0wj4Rjx.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;51050894][t]http://i.imgur.com/0wj4Rjx.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] getting off topic, but this sort of thing actually happens when firefighting gets privatized

Honestly the problem of bad police practice in the US has less to do with race than a movement named BLM would lead you to believe. Racism is one component of a larger issue, and making it *just* about police's mistreatment of black people rather than their mistreatment of everyone is definitely a bad move. I think we're a lot less likely to find a solution through black lives matter than if we had a movement called "stop police brutality" or "Eyes on the cops" or literally anything that might actually encourage reform at a root cause level rather than just generating outrage whenever a black person is killed by police, regardless of whether or not the specific shootings are justified. But just responding with "all lives matter lol" doesnt really do anything at all.

[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;51050894][t]http://i.imgur.com/0wj4Rjx.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Don't really get your point. Unless you're suggesting we should just not try to solve the greater problem and just focus on this one facet of it because you think that'd be easier. Then I do get your point, but disagree entirely.

[QUOTE=elowin;51051070]Don't really get your point. Unless you're suggesting we should just not try to solve the greater problem and just focus on this one facet of it because you think that'd be easier. Then I do get your point, but disagree entirely.[/QUOTE] he's suggesting that people that say "ALL lives matter" as a retort against BLM's name are people who don't understand or care about disproportionate judicial penalties regarding crimes against black citizens

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;51049788]"Black Lives Matter" is not the same as "ONLY Black Lives Matter".[/QUOTE] White people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;51050972]Honestly the problem of bad police practice in the US has less to do with race than a movement named BLM would lead you to believe. Racism is one component of a larger issue, and making it *just* about police's mistreatment of black people rather than their mistreatment of everyone is definitely a bad move. I think we're a lot less likely to find a solution through black lives matter than if we had a movement called "stop police brutality" or "Eyes on the cops" or literally anything that might actually encourage reform at a root cause level rather than just generating outrage whenever a black person is killed by police, regardless of whether or not the specific shootings are justified. But just responding with "all lives matter lol" doesnt really do anything at all.[/QUOTE] American police are overall much more aggressive compared to most of Europe, from what I can gather. It's a difficult problem to solve however, especially because one of the main reasons for this amount of aggressiveness is that it is often times called for, America is a much more dangerous place to be a police officer than anywhere else. And of course, as people get outraged at the times police officers go too far, it only becomes more dangerous to be one.

It's good to look at police brutality as an all encompassing issue that needs to be solved in general and not strictly because of the marginalization of the black community. It is not good to assume BLM is a way of saying that no one else matters. It's an organization founded by black members to bring attention to the injustice that black people have to deal with on a day to day basis. Most members won't stand up and say that police injustice doesn't happen to any other race. Latino communities also suffer police prejudice in some places. And even in some poorer white communities will police officers take their position of authority and abuse it. But most members won't say that it doesn't happen. Sensible ones, anyway. Some members of BLM take it too far, as with any civil rights movement. It's gonna happen. You can't stop it from happening. But that doesn't mean the central message was any less important to remember and not to eclipse by the notion that "Well don't ALL lives matter?" Of course all lives matter.

[QUOTE=bitches;51051086]he's suggesting that people that say "ALL lives matter" as a retort against BLM's name are people who don't understand or care about disproportionate judicial penalties regarding crimes against black citizens[/QUOTE] Educate me. Most of what I've heard from BLM is about police brutality against black people. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pascall;51051130]It's good to look at police brutality as an all encompassing issue that needs to be solved in general and not strictly because of the marginalization of the black community. It is not good to assume BLM is a way of saying that no one else matters. It's an organization founded by black members to bring attention to the injustice that black people have to deal with on a day to day basis. Most members won't stand up and say that police injustice doesn't happen to any other race. Latino communities also suffer police prejudice in some places. And even in some poorer white communities will police officers take their position of authority and abuse it. But most members won't say that it doesn't happen. Sensible ones, anyway. Some members of BLM take it too far, as with any civil rights movement. It's gonna happen. You can't stop it from happening. But that doesn't mean the central message was any less important to remember and not to eclipse by the notion that "Well don't ALL lives matter?" Of course all lives matter.[/QUOTE] Would make sense if black people were disproportionally targeted by the police. That's not the case, however. As I stated earlier I understand that it does not mean they don't think other lives matter, but it still comes from a place of outrage over specifically black people being the targets of police brutality, and that is simply not the right way to go about trying to counter it.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51051117]White people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers.[/QUOTE] ah yes, no black person has ever been hard working or law-abiding, or even a taxpayer. what are you contributing to this conversation? to any sort of debate on BLM? lol.

[QUOTE=elowin;51051138]Educate me. Most of what I've heard from BLM is about police brutality against black people. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] Would make sense if black people were disproportionally targeted by the police. That's not the case, however. As I stated earlier I understand that it does not mean they don't think other lives matter, but it still comes from a place of outrage over specifically black people being the targets of police brutality, and that is simply not the right way to go about trying to counter it.[/QUOTE] it is also about accountability, not just brutality i'd be interested in seeing statistics specifically about the rate of judicial penalties against obvious cases of police abuse obviously we're never going to get good statistics on that due to the subjective nature of not being able to rely on hard numbers that come from the legal system itself [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Alec W;51051212]ah yes, no black person has ever been hard working or law-abiding, or even a taxpayer. what are you contributing to this conversation? to any sort of debate on BLM? lol.[/QUOTE] it comes across as pointlessly racist rambling, which isn't surprising if you follow his opinions here on FP

[QUOTE=Alec W;51051212]ah yes, no black person has ever been hard working or law-abiding, or even a taxpayer. what are you contributing to this conversation? to any sort of debate on BLM? lol.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=bitches;51051235]it comes across as pointlessly racist rambling, which isn't surprising if you follow his opinions here on FP[/QUOTE] If saying "White people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" means "[U]only[/U] white people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" then "Black Lives Matter" means "[U]only[/U] Black Lives Matter". You just came of as a massive hypocrite. Which isn't surprising if one follows your opinions here on FP.

[QUOTE=Alec W;51051212]ah yes, no black person has ever been hard working or law-abiding, or even a taxpayer. what are you contributing to this conversation? to any sort of debate on BLM? lol.[/QUOTE] You fell for his trap.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51051275]If saying "White people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" means "[U]only[/U] white people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" then "Black Lives Matter" means "[U]only[/U] Black Lives Matter". You just came of as a massive hypocrite. Which isn't surprising if one follows your opinions here on FP.[/QUOTE] you have silly logic

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51051275]If saying "White people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" means "[U]only[/U] white people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" then "Black Lives Matter" means "[U]only[/U] Black Lives Matter".[/QUOTE] in a discussion about racial violence and policing, bringing up the fact that "white people are hard working and law-abiding" is to deliberately suggest that only white people are hard working and law-abiding in a discussion whose central claim is that black victims disproportionately don't receive justice, saying "black lives matter" is to counter the perceived belief that they [I]don't[/I] matter (a belief that explains, in their eyes, the disproportionate response) troll harder 0/10

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51051275]If saying "White people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" means "[U]only[/U] white people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers" then "Black Lives Matter" means "[U]only[/U] Black Lives Matter". You just came of as a massive hypocrite. Which isn't surprising if one follows your opinions here on FP.[/QUOTE] I, too, enjoy using word play to make a point that isn't even really a point.

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;51049788]"Black Lives Matter" is not the same as "ONLY Black Lives Matter".[/QUOTE] tbh the sad thing is that some BLM "members" will make you think its that way

[QUOTE=Pascall;51051299]I, too, enjoy using word play to make a point that isn't even really a point.[/QUOTE] The only point was, it's not really surprising that someone will think you mean the opposite of the people who are not included in your sentence. As presented in this very thread. I mean that was people's first assumption here. I know BLM means Black lives matter (too). Just saying, stop being so fucking hostile towards people who are going to do the same exact thing with "black lives matter" that some people here did with "White people are hard working, law-abiding tax-payers". They might not be massive fucking racists. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=bitches;51051298]in a discussion whose central claim is that black victims disproportionately don't receive justice, saying "black lives matter" is to counter the perceived belief that they [I]don't[/I] matter (a belief that explains, in their eyes, the disproportionate response)[/QUOTE] I only kept hearing about disproportionate police brutality towards black people. Like someone already asked you, can you educate us? [QUOTE=bitches;51051298]troll harder 0/10[/QUOTE] How about you post some more adhominems? I really want to know what are my racist rambling opinions here on FP.

[QUOTE=elowin;51051138] Would make sense if black people were disproportionally targeted by the police. That's not the case, however. [/QUOTE] i'm not sure which infographic you're sourcing this from but it's wrong. There are also countless studies saying you are wrong.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51051362]I only kept hearing about disproportionate police brutality towards black people. Like someone already asked you, can you educate us?[/QUOTE] I didn't make the claim. I also already answered the person who asked me with my impressions on it and a statement of my desire for more research into the topic. You should ask God of Ashes instead, apparently. You're not being witty by pointing out how people can misunderstand each other. BLM's naming context makes it obvious what they mean. You being inflammatory for sake of wordplay doesn't.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51051362] I only kept hearing about disproportionate police brutality towards black people. Like someone already asked you, can you educate us? [/QUOTE] [quote]The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average.[/quote] [url]http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0141854[/url] [quote]The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black. . . . Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.[/quote] [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.25d0896bff13[/url] [quote]racial disparities regarding S.F.P.D. stops, searches, and arrests, particularly for Black people.[/quote] [quote]In San Francisco, “although Black people accounted for less than 15 percent of all stops in 2015, they accounted for over 42 percent of all non-consent searches following stops.” This proved unwarranted: “Of all people searched without consent, Black and Hispanic people had the lowest ‘hit rates’ (i.e., the lowest rate of contraband recovered).[/quote] [url]http://sfdistrictattorney.org/sites/default/files/Document/BRP_report.pdf[/url] [quote]“African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers,[/quote] [url]http://sfdistrictattorney.org/sites/default/files/Document/BRP_report.pdf[/url] I can keep going if you like.

-nevermind-

[QUOTE=bitches;51051415]I didn't make the claim. I also already answered the person who asked me with my impressions on it and a statement of my desire for more research into the topic. You should ask God of Ashes instead, apparently.[/QUOTE] You misunderstand. I don't want you to educate me on how "black victims disproportionately don't receive justice" I wanted to tell me a bit more on BLM's central claim being that black victims disproportionately don't receive justice. Because most of what I've been hearing from them was about disproportionate police brutality towards black people. I thought that was the central claim. But apparently I'm completely wrong on this so I wanted to know a bit more. [QUOTE=bitches;51051415]You're not being witty by pointing out how people can misunderstand each other. BLM's naming context makes it obvious what they mean. You being inflammatory for sake of wordplay doesn't.[/QUOTE] I just wanted to make a point that people are quick to assume shit about other people without a second hesitation or verification. If you weren't, you wouldn't have fallen for it. And it could have been easily figured out. Felix Snake saw through it. And do you think you are being witty by talking about my racist rambling opinions here on FP? I still want to know what they are. Or do you just throw shit at people then never address that again? [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=God of Ashes;51051419]I can keep going if you like.[/QUOTE] Well that's not what I asked for but I'm going to read it anyway. Thanks.

[QUOTE=bitches;51051235]it is also about accountability, not just brutality i'd be interested in seeing statistics specifically about the rate of judicial penalties against obvious cases of police abuse obviously we're never going to get good statistics on that due to the subjective nature of not being able to rely on hard numbers that come from the legal system itself[/QUOTE] Well, I managed to find some statistics regarding it. According to [url=http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/allegations-of-police-misconduct-rarely-result-in-charges/]this article[/url], less than 1% of fatal shootings by police result in the officer being arrested. Although, these statistics are from 2005-2011, they state a ratio of about 4 arrestations for murder or nonnegligent manslaughter. According to [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-shooting-convictions_us_5695968ce4b086bc1cd5d0da]The Huffington Post[/url], In 2015 the number of arrestations was 18. I don't have the exact number of those whose victims were black people, but it's at least half. Granted, the number of actual indictments according to the same article is also none, although I don't know how many of those are simply because the trial was still or is still ongoing. According to the [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/]Washington Post's database of fatal police shootings[/url], in 2015 about 26% of police fatalities were black people. Leaving about 74% of the people roughly 1000 people killed that year who were not black. 54% were white. Judging by that, I would say no, this is not a problem that is disproportionally affecting black people, or any other minority. It's clear that BLM has caused a significant spike in officers arrested for murder or nonnegligent manslaughter, but the massive focus on black people has also, unsurprisingly, caused most of those arrestations to be for the killing of black people simply because they caused the most outrage. Meanwhile, literally none of the arrestations, regardless of the race of the victim, have resulted in convictions in 2015. And again, I remind you that only 26% of victims were black people. It's crystal clear that this is a problem for American people regardless of race.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;51051484]You misunderstand. I don't want you to educate me on how "black victims disproportionately don't receive justice" I wanted to tell me a bit more on BLM's central claim being that black victims disproportionately don't receive justice. Because most of what I've been hearing from them was about disproportionate police brutality towards black people. I thought that was the central claim. But apparently I'm completely wrong on this so I wanted to know a bit more. I just wanted to make a point that people are quick to assume shit about other people without a second hesitation or verification. If you weren't, you wouldn't have fallen for it. And it could have been easily figured out. Felix Snake saw through it. And do you think you are being witty by talking about my racist rambling opinions here on FP? I still want to know what they are. Or do you just throw shit at people then never address that again?[/QUOTE] My point is that you're complaining that people "assume shit about other people", when differing contexts make assumptions that BLM's name is racist far more ridiculous than you purposefully baiting. I'm not going to go any further with this since it's off topic, but I will stop by addressing your complaint with this example of you arguing that [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1529992&p=50859883&viewfull=1#post50859883]Muslim immigrants are violent adherents of Sharia and anyone who says otherwise is an Islamic Apologist[/url]. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=elowin;51051518]Well, I managed to find some statistics regarding it. According to [url=http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/allegations-of-police-misconduct-rarely-result-in-charges/]this article[/url], less than 1% of fatal shootings by police result in the officer being arrested. Although, these statistics are from 2005-2011, they state a ratio of about 4 arrestations for murder or nonnegligent manslaughter. According to [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-shooting-convictions_us_5695968ce4b086bc1cd5d0da]The Huffington Post[/url], In 2015 the number of arrestations was 18. I don't have the exact number of those whose victims were black people, but it's at least half. Granted, the number of actual indictments according to the same article is also none, although I don't know how many of those are simply because the trial was still or is still ongoing. According to the [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/]Washington Post's database of fatal police shootings[/url], in 2015 about 26% of police fatalities were black people. Leaving about 74% of the people roughly 1000 people killed that year who were not black. 54% were white. Judging by that, I would say no, this is not a problem that is disproportionally affecting black people, or any other minority. It's clear that BLM has caused a significant spike in officers arrested for murder or nonnegligent manslaughter, but the massive focus on black people has also, unsurprisingly, caused most of those arrestations to be for the killing of black people simply because they caused the most outrage. Meanwhile, literally none of the arrestations, regardless of the race of the victim, have resulted in convictions in 2015. And again, I remind you that only 26% of victims were black people. It's crystal clear that this is a problem for American people regardless of race.[/QUOTE] I appreciate you going through the effort to find supporting research. This is the kind of conversation we need to be having, not word-play.

[QUOTE=bitches;51051523]My point is that you're complaining that people "assume shit about other people", when differing contexts make assumptions that BLM's name is racist far more ridiculous than you purposefully baiting.[/QUOTE] Okay, it makes less sense to assume it means "only black lives matter" but it's not completely ridiculous since not every BLM supporter got the memo and for instance wants to kill all white babies or white cops. [QUOTE=bitches;51051523]I'm not going to go any further with this since it's off topic, but I will stop by addressing your complaint with this example of you arguing that [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1529992&p=50859883&viewfull=1#post50859883"]Muslim immigrants are violent adherents of Sharia and anyone who says otherwise is an Islamic Apologist[/URL].[/QUOTE] That's a straight up lie. Quote me where I said that. If you scroll to the third page of that thread you will notice that this was my actual argument "beliefs of majority of Middle-Eastern Muslims may vary but they are little more than conservative. Meaning not moderate but not extremists either." Which I have actually proven with sources. Do you think you are witty by telling lies about other people to make them look bad? Everyone can go to the third page of that thread and see that the discussion there colds down and it turns out that I [B]wasn't[/B] saying the shit you just accused me of. It just makes you look like a slanderous liar. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=bitches;51051523]I appreciate you going through the effort to find supporting research. This is the kind of conversation we need to be having, not word-play.[/QUOTE] Yeah we need more slander and calling people racists. That's the highest level of discussion. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=God of Ashes;51051419]The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average.[/QUOTE] I've heard about this before. I don't know if you've seen this [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/[/URL] and I don't know how credible is this but I've filtered "black" and "unarmed" and counted the instances of unarmed fatal shootings of black people. in 2015 out of 38: 20 People struggled/attacked/rushed the officer 4 people reached for something that could be a weapon during chase or while approaching officer 2 people ran after police chase or ramming into a police car 7 are clearly unjustified 3 are unknown, it's not clear from synopsis and the source will not open or it's unclear if someone actually went for the gun or something like that 2 were bystanders "unarmed" is not really a good statistic. You can be unarmed and go for officer's gun. I'm not going to dispute your other claims. I think they are probably true, racial profiling is a thing. But you also have to take into account the fact that black people generally live in worse parts of towns and those parts have more patrols. I'm not saying that's the main reason but it's just something to keep in mind. I mean if the guy from the OP has enough impact to increase the number of patrols in his neighborhood, and if that neighborhood has black people as majority, then the number of unnecessary stops and searches will increase.

BLM doesn't have a leader though