watch dogs things vs gta 4 things - General

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;44946518]Jesus dude, the gameplay is above meh tier, i'm not even talking about the gameplay, the GRAPHICS (say it with me) are meh-tier. Yeah, oh jeez, the LIGHTING is amazing, we know, but as a whole the graphics aren't what they should have been. And no, smaller companies have that issue, take games like Call of Duty or DNF or Medal of Honor or any other numerous AAA games. Huge teams, plenty of directive and budget and expertise and they made horrible games. [editline] May 29 2014 [/editline] Also, people call those games out just as much as they do Watch_Dogs, WD is just the present one with some of the worst cases of it, especially with as much hype as there was focusing attention on this game.[/QUOTE] Why the hell care about graphics? Next gen doesn't automatically mean double the visual integrity. It means more complicated game mechanics and subsystems. If this games 'graphics' - which for some reason excludes lighting - is 'meh' tier then Wolfenstein:TNO must be 'shit' tier because aside from lighting, that game doesn't have much going for it visually, even though it's easily going to be the shooter of the year. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=F T;44946520]...Wouldn't that just prove his point then?[/QUOTE] I wasn't arguing with that point, I was conversing about it. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=XxThreedogxX;44946522]No its not from lack of direction or expertise not everyone is trying to make the best game they can. Most devs are trying to get a pay check and get the game out as they're told to do. A lot of devs are lazy. It doesn't make you a shitty person to call people out on shit like that.[/QUOTE] Yeah every team has it's fair share of people that are just on the grind, but every team has its more than fair share of enthusiastic artists and talented people. There's a reason they've got on with an AAA company.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946560]Why the hell care about graphics? Next gen doesn't automatically mean double the visual integrity. It means more complicated game mechanics and subsystems. If this games 'graphics' - which for some reason excludes lighting - is 'meh' tier then Wolfenstein:TNO must be 'shit' tier because aside from lighting, that game doesn't have much going for it visually, even though it's easily going to be the shooter of the year.[/QUOTE] Holy shit dude, the entire point of this gen and the whole thing this game was advertised for was that they were going to push the graphics to the next level, make the new consoles a viable, visual competitor to PC, have you just not been paying attention? Also i specifically mention lighting because usually that's what's brought up as a positive point. And Wolfenstein looks great, what are you talking about? It also wasn't advertized to be amazing looking unlike WD. [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946560]Yeah every team has it's fair share of people that are just on the grind, but every team has its more than fair share of enthusiastic artists and talented people. There's a reason they've got on with an AAA company.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean it balances out to make a good game. Companies still make shit games, no matter how many bright-eyed and bushy-tailed members the teams have.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946560]Why the hell care about graphics? Next gen doesn't automatically mean double the visual integrity. It means more complicated game mechanics and subsystems. If this games 'graphics' - which for some reason excludes lighting - is 'meh' tier then Wolfenstein:TNO must be 'shit' tier because aside from lighting, that game doesn't have much going for it visually, even though it's easily going to be the shooter of the year. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] I wasn't arguing with that point, I was conversing about it. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] Yeah every team has it's fair share of people that are just on the grind, but every team has its more than fair share of enthusiastic artists and talented people. There's a reason they've got on with an AAA company.[/QUOTE] A game being AAA doesn't mean much anymore or have you been gone the last 5 years of gaming? The quality of the games graphics and physics suck compared to what was promised and that shouldn't be happening and Devs should be held responsible for it.

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;44946591]Holy shit dude, the entire point of this gen and the whole thing this game was advertised for was that they were going to push the graphics to the next level, make the new consoles a viable, visual competitor to PC, have you just not been paying attention? Also i specifically mention lighting because usually that's what's brought up as a positive point. And Wolfenstein looks great, what are you talking about? It also wasn't advertized to be amazing looking unlike WD.[/QUOTE] Wolfenstein looks fantastic. But take away the lighting and it doesn't look too great. I was under the impression this Gen is about a more steamlined living room experience, and having games paying at 1080p with 60fps. If this gen was all about the power, you'd think they would have made the systems a lot more powerful than they made them. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=XxThreedogxX;44946606]A game being AAA doesn't mean much anymore or have you been gone the last 5 years of gaming? The quality of the games graphics and physics suck compared to what was promised and that shouldn't be happening and Devs should be held responsible for it.[/QUOTE] The Devs should be held responsible when they've stated they wanted 6 more months to finish the game? It's the producers that should be held responsible, not the creative workers. It's like every game that has the potential to be a fucking masterpiece has to be shoved out ASAP because people are screaming for the gold material and it ends up underdelivering. I mean, look at Colonial Marines.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946623]Wolfenstein looks fantastic. But take away the lighting and it doesn't look too great. I was under the impression this Gen is about a more steamlined living room experience, and [B]having games paying at 1080p with 60fps.[/B] If this gen was all about the power, you'd think they would have made the systems a lot more powerful than they made them.[/QUOTE] This is literally arguing against your own point, that's trying to make them look better and compete with PC's. And they should have made them more powerful, i don't know if you were under a rock when they were released but there was an entire shitstorm about how weak they both were comparatively, especially the Xbone. The "Streamlined livingroom experience" is just to draw in casual gamers. [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946623]The Devs should be held responsible when they've stated they wanted 6 more months to finish the game? It's the producers that should be held responsible, not the creative workers.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they should, when after those six months it's still not delivering on its promises. Have you ever been into the military or heard stories about it? When someone in your unit fucks up, EVERYONE gets punished and companies failing to meet the expectations they hooted and hollered about should be no different.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946623]Wolfenstein looks fantastic. But take away the lighting and it doesn't look too great. I was under the impression this Gen is about a more steamlined living room experience, and having games paying at 1080p with 60fps. If this gen was all about the power, you'd think they would have made the systems a lot more powerful than they made them. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] The Devs should be held responsible when they've stated they wanted 6 more months to finish the game? It's the producers that should be held responsible, not the creative workers.[/QUOTE] Yeah lets stick fucking Titans in an Xbone and see how many people pay $1000 for a console that seems like a viable strategy. Everyone working on the game should be held responsible. No one is excluded and thats the point. The game did not deliver on what was promised end of story.

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;44946645]This is literally arguing against your own point, that's trying to make them look better and compete with PC's. And they should have made them more powerful, i don't know if you were under a rock when they were released but there was an entire shitstorm about how weak they both were comparatively, especially the Xbone. The "Streamlined livingroom experience" is just to draw in casual gamers.[/QUOTE] My whole point is that Watch Dogs isn't as bad as the people in this thread are whining about. I'm aware of the shitstorm following the spec announcment, why do I even have to confirm that, it's a huge let down and everyone agrees. The only redeemable qualities for these consoles are the games. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=XxThreedogxX;44946653]Yeah lets stick fucking Titans in an Xbone and see how many people pay $1000 for a console that seems like a viable strategy. Everyone working on the game should be held responsible. No one is excluded and thats the point. The game did not deliver on what was promised end of story.[/QUOTE] They should be held responsible because they're human and have a limited working capacity? "Man, rome has been under construction for a whole day now and it isn't complete. Lazy cretins, the lot of you!" addendum: And Titans aren't even good as gaming GPUs so, what? [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=DeVotchKa;44946645]This is literally arguing against your own point, that's trying to make them look better and compete with PC's. And they should have made them more powerful, i don't know if you were under a rock when they were released but there was an entire shitstorm about how weak they both were comparatively, especially the Xbone. The "Streamlined livingroom experience" is just to draw in casual gamers. Yeah, they should, when after those six months it's still not delivering on its promises. Have you ever been into the military or heard stories about it? When someone in your unit fucks up, EVERYONE gets punished and companies failing to meet the expectations they hooted and hollered about should be no different.[/QUOTE] How would you know? They didn't get the extra 6 months, ubi execs wouldn't allow the game to be delayed again. Military units get punished as a whole because Military units are supposed to act as a whole. A game dev is not a military unit, this example is actually quite hilarious.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946680]My whole point is that Watch Dogs isn't as bad as the people in this thread are whining about. I'm aware of the shitstorm following the spec announcment, why do I even have to confirm that, it's a huge let down and everyone agrees. The only redeemable qualities for these consoles are the games. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] They should be held responsible because they're human and have a limited working capacity? "Man, rome has been under construction for a whole day now and it isn't complete. Lazy cretins, the lot of you!"[/QUOTE] But at the same time, at points, it clearly IS as bad as some of the people in the thread are whining about. Small time, single man indie devs or small teams of devs (lookin' at you Capy) can make absolutely fucking WONDERFUL games. Look at Swords and Sworcery or Below or Hyper Light Drifter, crowd-funded, small teams making quality games that a AAA company should be able to churn out easily but don't and frankly can't in some cases. Humanity and limited working capacity is a bullshit cop-out. [editline] May 29 2014 [/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946680]How would you know? They didn't get the extra 6 months, ubi execs wouldn't allow the game to be delayed again. Military units get punished as a whole because Military units are supposed to act as a whole. A game dev is not a military unit, this example is actually quite hilarious.[/QUOTE] Bullshit companies aren't supposed to act as a whole, you're blind and oblivious if you think a company is just a bunch of scattered districts working on different shit, no area can function properly without any of the others communicating. The example isn't fucking "hilarious" when it's accurate and putting up a better argument than any you've put forth thusfar. Any sort of large outfits needs cohesion and teamwork, obviously you've never done anything with a group in your life if that's truly what you think. I'd like to see you do anything with a group of people when you can't communicate.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946680]My whole point is that Watch Dogs isn't as bad as the people in this thread are whining about. I'm aware of the shitstorm following the spec announcment, why do I even have to confirm that, it's a huge let down and everyone agrees. The only redeemable qualities for these consoles are the games. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] They should be held responsible because they're human and have a limited working capacity? "Man, rome has been under construction for a whole day now and it isn't complete. Lazy cretins, the lot of you!" addendum: And Titans aren't even good as gaming GPUs so, what?[/QUOTE] They had plenty of time to work on the game they even delayed to make sure they game was quality and yet it wasn't and that shouldn't just be accepted as okay.

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;44946733]But at the same time, at points, it clearly IS as bad as some of the people in the thread are whining about. Small time, single man indie devs or small teams of devs (lookin' at you Capy) can make absolutely fucking WONDERFUL games. Look at Swords and Sworcery or Below or Hyper Light Drifter, crowd-funded, small teams making quality games that a AAA company should be able to churn out easily but don't and frankly can't in some cases. Humanity and limited working capacity is a bullshit cop-out.[/QUOTE] There's waaaay more work that has to be done to make Watch Dogs than there is for those games, you can't even compare them. Show me a better city free roamer with credible gameplay and graphics made by a small team and you can colour me impressed. I'm not belittling those titles, though, as they are really good, and it definitely still took a lot of work. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] The only time Watch Dogs is as bad as people say it is is during buggy moments, which I've had a couple of in my 22 hours of gameplay and they seem to have been fixed with the patch. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=XxThreedogxX;44946746]They had plenty of time to work on the game they even delayed to make sure they game was quality and yet it wasn't and that shouldn't just be accepted as okay.[/QUOTE] Plenty of time, but still not enough, obviously.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946788]There's waaaay more work that has to be done to make Watch Dogs than there is for those games, you can't even compare them. Show me a better city free roamer with credible gameplay and graphics made by a small team and you can colour me impressed. I'm not belittling those titles, though, as they are really good, and it definitely still took a lot of work.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking kidding me? It's an easy comparison! Have you ever tried to do pixel art? Or make an OST on the level of those games'? Also, Prototype and InFamous were both made by relatively small teams and, at the time, looked great and had wonderful gameplay. You are literally just throwing shit out to continue defending your insubstantial points, why are you even wasting your fucking time when no one agrees with you. You've states your opinion, we've states ours. Just fuck off already.

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;44946828]Are you fucking kidding me? It's an easy comparison! Have you ever tried to do pixel art? Or make an OST on the level of those games'? Also, Prototype and InFamous were both made by relatively small teams and, at the time, looked great and had wonderful gameplay. You are literally just throwing shit out to continue defending your insubstantial points, why are you even wasting your fucking time when no one agrees with you. You've states your opinion, we've states ours. Just fuck off already.[/QUOTE] Yeah but Watch Dogs doesn't use pixel art, it requires completely different methods for creating, it's definitely not an easy comparison. also chill out dude you're getting wayy too angry. Also Prototype had very subpar graphics for it's time. Like, really bad. It was still received well though, one of my favourite super hero games. I wish they carried combos and stuff like that over into the the second game.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946862]Yeah but Watch Dogs doesn't use pixel art, it requires completely different methods for creating, it's definitely not an easy comparison. also chill out dude you're getting wayy too angry.[/QUOTE] I'm getting perfectly reasonably angry. Well done pixel art is just as hard as anything Watch_dogs has done in the art department, you're ignorant for thinking it's not. You're sitting here rehashing worthless, pointless posts to a forum that doesn't care or agree all for absolutely no reason. There's is literally zero reason for this argument to even have gotten half as far as it has. Just shut up and drop it and the rest of us will too.

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;44946889]I'm getting perfectly reasonably angry. Well done pixel art is just as hard as anything Watch_dogs has done in the art department, you're ignorant for thinking it's not. You're sitting here rehashing worthless, pointless posts to a forum that doesn't care or agree all for absolutely no reason. There's is literally zero reason for this argument to even have gotten half as far as it has. Just shut up and drop it and the rest of us will too.[/QUOTE] They are completely different styles of art, and take completely different levels of technology to create. I don't know why you think you can pull off such a comparison. I know how hard it is to make well done pixel art. I believe it is way harder to make an open 3d world such as the one made in Watch Dogs.

How the actual fuck have you been arguing for three days man.

[QUOTE=Blu_ninja;44946918]How the actual fuck have you been arguing for three days man.[/QUOTE] Easy. The forum doesn't go anywhere when I leave.

[QUOTE=Blu_ninja;44946918]How the actual fuck have you been arguing for three days man.[/QUOTE] Because he can't admit when he's wrong.

[QUOTE=XxThreedogxX;44946931]Because he can't admit when he's wrong.[/QUOTE] The game has it's flaws. I've stated them many a time. Maybe not in this thread, but idgaf. The game is also pretty great to play. Like, really fun, and hacking is more satisfying than people lead you to believe. Maybe the cons do outweigh the pros if you look at it in a critical sense. But, I'm a consumer, not a critic. My opinion is that the game looks great, plays greater, and controls pretty shittily with KB+M, i'd imagine driving is easier with a controller, but I haven't tried yet. It has it's moments where Im reminded of GTA V with higher res textures, and it has it's moments where it looks like saints row 2 with better character models. I'd admit that I was wrong if I was actually wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, or the last. But I know I'm not wrong here.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44947002]The game has it's flaws. I've stated them many a time. Maybe not in this thread, but idgaf. The game is also pretty great to play. Like, really fun, and hacking is more satisfying than people lead you to believe. Maybe the cons do outweigh the pros if you look at it in a critical sense. But, I'm a consumer, not a critic. My opinion is that the game looks great, plays greater, and controls pretty shittily with KB+M, i'd imagine driving is easier with a controller, but I haven't tried yet. It has it's moments where Im reminded of GTA V with higher res textures, and it has it's moments where it looks like saints row 2 with better character models. I'd admit that I was wrong if I was actually wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, or the last. But I know I'm not wrong here.[/QUOTE] Hey people keep saying it looks like Saints Row 2, or maybe Saints Row 2 looked so good that it set a new standard? All this really depends on how you're looking at it, the game in my eyes looks pretty awesome but I hear stories of terrible frame-rate issues and uPlay saying uDontPlay. I'd wait it out until they patch the shit out of it. I'm sick and tired of these laggy Ubisoft games. Splinter Cell Conviction has performance issues to this day.

[QUOTE=BDX777;44947148]Hey people keep saying it looks like Saints Row 2, or maybe Saints Row 2 looked so good that it set a new standard? All this really depends on how you're looking at it, the game in my eyes looks pretty awesome but I hear stories of terrible frame-rate issues and uPlay saying uDontPlay. I'd wait it out until they patch the shit out of it. I'm sick and tired of these laggy Ubisoft games. Splinter Cell Conviction has performance issues to this day.[/QUOTE] It runs smooth as hell for me, running on absolute max. The game studdered every time I drove but not any more after the first patch. But apparently it's not too friendly for AMD cards. and Uplay servers have been shitting the bed but it's getting less frequent. I compared it to SR2 because it's another city roamer and it's graphics are dated, the game never literally looks [i]that[/i] bad, but it has it's moments where you simply can't be impressed.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44946467]But reflections do show in windows, and cars do show damage. So your point is really flawed, but I get what you're saying. Just a lot of people are basing the assumptions on this video wherein it's clearly not set to max settings.[/QUOTE] the wrong reflections show? I'm so confused how you can argue something that is demonstrably false. Post a screenshot of the reflections being "Correct" because I've yet to see a single one. Dude, the game may be fun, and you're welcome to feel that way, but anyone here is who complaining about how it looks is complaining because it failed to be what they sold it as. You can be fine with that. But calling people immature because they're mad a product was changed in the PR department more than the dev department is fucking ludicrous. [editline]29th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44947237]It runs smooth as hell for me, running on absolute max. The game studdered every time I drove but not any more after the first patch. But apparently it's not too friendly for AMD cards. and Uplay servers have been shitting the bed but it's getting less frequent. I compared it to SR2 because it's another city roamer and it's graphics are dated, the game never literally looks [i]that[/i] bad, but it has it's moments where you simply can't be impressed.[/QUOTE] I really don't believe you People playing on 2000$ rigs are struggling to run it at max without stuttering. the pop in is still horrendous either way.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44947279] I really don't believe you People playing on 2000$ rigs are struggling to run it at max without stuttering. the pop in is still horrendous either way.[/QUOTE] It's hilarious then, that my 1300 dollar rig can run it completely maxed out [b]{Actually, I have maxed buffered frames at 3 instead of 5 because when it's set to 5 you get maad flickering when entering a new area, forgot about this sorry}[/b], regardless of what you believe. I do agree about cars popping in. I'm not even going to acknowledge the first part of your post (except this statement ofc) because I've literally said that the cubemaps are fucked up and they didn't do proper reflections. The people that are immature are the ones that are losing their shit and berating the creative talents by claiming they blatantly lied and are lazy hacks.

But they DID lie about things. Can you not mentally differentiate between "Developers" and "PR"? The problem people have, that you so call "immaturity" is that the PR department is creating a situation where the E3 Demo is made, and is visually impressive in its implementation of lighting, fog, and etc. The game devs didn't deliver that. If you think people are upset by that, are fucking immature, then I have nothing to say to you. Okay, you can run it on a 1300$ on max on settings that literally no body I've seen play this game can do with their professional or better rigs. Now, you may be able to do this, but for some reason, I don't believe you at all. You won't even accept that there's anything wrong with the game at all when it's pointed out to you, like it's a personal attack on you and the devs that something might not be perfect in a game you like, it doesn't seem unlikely to me that you'd say "max settings" and mean "high" or "medium". I don't know man, two nvidia Titans and an I7 and more than 4 GB of VRAM should play the game on ultra(He also tried it on 5 other computers to no avail), like TB has shown, but he can't even run it on high without dropping below 60 FPS. Call him, and anyone who believes him if you want, a liar, it doesn't make it true or your claim seem more reasonable.

I'm running i7-3770, with 14 gigs of RAM, and a 4 gig 760. Game runs fine for me, with everything maxed out except the setting that I referred to before. You say I refuse to accept that there's things wrong with the game, so you've definitely read none of my posts, because I said there is plenty of things wrong with the game and have given plenty of examples. Including in my last fucking post. TB can't run another game with is dumb SLI Titans, big surprise there. I just don't think PR and hype can affect how good the game is objectively and people shouldn't base their opinions on what the company said they were gonna do compared to the final result or what people said they wanted to expect compared to the final result. Just my 2 cents. Or more like 10 bucks by now. [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] Also you told me "they did lie about things" and continue on about the differences between PR and the DEV team, after you've just ignored that they are different. It seems you've only recognized the difference when it became convenient. Because I've seen lots of bashing of the dev team.

"People shouldn't base their opinions on marketing material" Obviously marketing material is simply marketing material and not important to peoples and the publics mental image of the product being sold. How fucking stupid of me, and everyone else in the world to think that the things being used to sell a product to us, should be representative of the fucking product! How fucking stupid of us! People are bashing the dev team? Are they? Can you point this out? Cause they're bashing Ubisoft. Has anyone said a devs name? Has anyone said anything directly pertaining to the devs? I'm going to guess not. I'm going to guess that everyone is directly talking about Ubisoft as a company. It's kinda hard to hate 3000 plus devs. Oh, my bad, you admitted the driving was wonky. I guess you can accept it's not perfect.

can someone lock these threads already

This just in everyone [B]You should know what you're buying, how it is, and what it is, before you buy it, but guess what, you can't use marketing and PR because none of that is real so you should just know anyways[/B] i feel like this is what you're saying.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44947431]TB can't run another game with is dumb SLI Titans, big surprise there.[/QUOTE] I seriously hope that's a joke or you're confusing the titans with something else or bashing TB or something, titans are like monster trucks, including the horribly expensive for it's use parts [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44947431] I just don't think PR and hype can affect how good the game is objectively and people shouldn't base their opinions on what the company said they were gonna do compared to the final result or what people said they wanted to expect compared to the final result. Just my 2 cents. Or more like 10 bucks by now.[/QUOTE] pr and hype can lead to hype backlash, which will always affect how people will view the game. WD is great fun but isn't exceptionally impressive visually and isn't a well polished game, these are objective. The hype backlash is when people hear "next-gen" and see pop in at close ranges, reflections that don't accurately match the surroundings, and an very unoptimized game for 90% of users and this [I]will[/I] take away from people's options of the game no matter how much fun it is it'll be "that fun game that runs and looks like shit after we heard and saw that it would be better"

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44947503]This just in everyone [B]You should know what you're buying, how it is, and what it is, before you buy it, but guess what, you can't use marketing and PR because none of that is real so you should just know anyways[/B] i feel like this is what you're saying.[/QUOTE] haha what the actual fuck are you even going on with now [editline]30th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44947497] Oh, my bad, you admitted the driving was wonky. I guess you can accept it's not perfect.[/QUOTE] So yeah, you've paid no attention to my posts, I'll pay no attention to yours.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44947547]haha what the actual fuck are you even going on with now[/QUOTE] the rational conclusion of your argument that "people shouldn't base their opinions on what the company said they were gonna do compared to the final result" [editline]29th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;44947547] So yeah, you've paid no attention to my posts, I'll pay no attention to yours.[/QUOTE] well that's the easy way to deal with it I guess better ignore anything that confronts your rationality rather than deal with it.