[QUOTE=Shadaez;39939147]Are you actually going to attack what I'm saying or just try and get epic zingers?
No, safe to assume isn't a legal term. I'm saying you're within reasoning that the person would give consent had they been sober based on prior interactions.[/QUOTE]
Rape can happen within relationships very easily. Just because two people are a couple doesn't mean that they automatically give consent whenever. If either party continues despite rescinded consent or forces sex on the other - regardless of relationship status - that is rape and domestic abuse. It doesn't matter which party, whether they're sober or not, or if they're in a relationship - it is never "safe to assume" implied consent because of an existing relationship. It's ridiculous to insinuate that if two people are in a relationship and have had sex sober before that rape is not possible because it's "safe to assume" that consent was implied. That's not how it works, at all. The only time I ever support the accused rapist is when consent was originally given but rescinded after the fact. If it was rescinded during, that's rape. Rescinded before, rape. Rescinded after, regret.
As people have said, though, we've gone waaay off topic from the idea of tropes in video games.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;39939254]Rape can happen within relationships very easily. Just because two people are a couple doesn't mean that they automatically give consent whenever. If either party continues despite rescinded consent or forces sex on the other - regardless of relationship status - that is rape and domestic abuse. It doesn't matter which party, whether they're sober or not, or if they're in a relationship - it is never "safe to assume" implied consent because of an existing relationship. It's ridiculous to insinuate that if two people are in a relationship and have had sex sober before that rape is not possible because it's "safe to assume" that consent was implied. That's not how it works, at all. The only time I ever support the accused rapist is when consent was originally given but rescinded after the fact. If it was rescinded during, that's rape. Rescinded before, rape. Rescinded after, regret.
As people have said, though, we've gone waaay off topic from the idea of tropes in video games.[/QUOTE]
Thanks .Isak. This is what I basically wanted to say but English isn't my primary and I couldn't put it better.
And yeah, this is way off-topic. I think we might have raped the thread, like, unironically.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;39939254]Rape can happen within relationships very easily. Just because two people are a couple doesn't mean that they automatically give consent whenever. If either party continues despite rescinded consent or forces sex on the other - regardless of relationship status - that is rape and domestic abuse. It doesn't matter which party, whether they're sober or not, or if they're in a relationship - it is never "safe to assume" implied consent because of an existing relationship. It's ridiculous to insinuate that if two people are in a relationship and have had sex sober before that rape is not possible because it's "safe to assume" that consent was implied. That's not how it works, at all. The only time I ever support the accused rapist is when consent was originally given but rescinded after the fact. If it was rescinded during, that's rape. Rescinded before, rape. Rescinded after, regret.
As people have said, though, we've gone waaay off topic from the idea of tropes in video games.[/QUOTE]
OK? I never said if consent was rescinded that it's OK to keep going. I'm saying consent can be implied in some circumstances. Yes, you can be raped in a relationship. Don't put words in my mouth.
[editline]16th March 2013[/editline]
And you equating 'regret' to rape is really, really inaccurate and harmful.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39922848]holyyyy crap
you realize that the game could choose to have a longer backstory right, that point in the video makes absolutely no sense at all
backstory in video games doesnt have a strict 7 second requirement, someone made it that way[/QUOTE]
it's an arcade game, they had to get across to the player immediately some basic motive
I really hate debates like this because people can talk the dumbest shit and then when challenged say 'oh shit you're just a man/woman hater'. It's pretty hard to weed out the bullshit from the valid opinion and I have to look at myself, the post and the context very carefully when I do it. anyway, the way you're defending your perfectly valid view is fucking dumb, shape up please.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39938497]Did you read the posts? He's asking if you get drunk and have sex it's always rape. I said if you're drunk you cannot consent. You can consent before or assume implied consent if you're in a relationship or know the person. I'm not an expert on this but that's my understanding. I struggled with understanding it at first, too, but the law agrees with me.[/QUOTE]
Answer the questions I asked in a previous post. I want to see how disconnected from reality you are.
And "assume implied consent" is really ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39938497]It's just a joke dude, can you not get a joke.[/QUOTE]
It's ad hominem at it's best. It's posted in response every time this guy is mentioned to belittle his point.
Also the whole 'false rape accusations' thing is just a minefield of its own. It mostly seems to be people using a tiny statistic to try and support an, if not outright misogynist, definitely unhealthy portrayal of women. At best it's fairly irrelevant and at worst it's rape apologism. It also has no place in this thread about the portrayal of women in videogames. Stop bringing it up.
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939622]
It's ad hominem at it's best. It's posted in response every time this guy is mentioned to belittle his point.[/QUOTE]
He does have some genuinely terrible views though, I haven't watched enough of the guy's videos to form a concrete opinion of him but from what I have seen I wouldn't use him to illustrate a point.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939622]
It's ad hominem at it's best. It's posted in response every time this guy is mentioned to belittle his point.[/QUOTE]
Everyone knows the guys a joke at this point regardless and that his "point" is actually terrible (both in reasoning and the effects it has on the 13-17 young male set he panders his angry videos to) so people just bring up a weird quirky story about him.
If you want to defend internet personalities against ad hominem attacks there are far better human beings to side with.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939622]Answer the questions I asked in a previous post. I want to see how disconnected from reality you are.
And "assume implied consent" is really ridiculous.
It's ad hominem at it's best. It's posted in response every time this guy is mentioned to belittle his point.[/QUOTE]
Don't know what question you're referring to, just ask it again. 'Implied consent' isn't ridiculous. It would be impossible to have sex while intoxicated in any way without it. You might be misunderstanding me. Say you're in a relationship with someone and you two are very sexually active. If you get drunk and she's willing (not giving consent, these things are different - you can't consent when drunk) to have sex and doesn't become unwilling or say no, or become unwilling in any way during sex, it is OK to imply that she would be fine with it based on your prior experience or your knowledge of the person. No, this isn't really a blanked statement, and it requires you to know the person you're sleeping with. It is completely reasonable in some situation to both feel you had implied consent and for other person to feel they were raped.
It would NOT be OK to get drunk with someone you've never slept with or don't know and have sex with them regardless of if they're willing to do the act while drunk. If you do this and the person feels raped after the fact, they are completely valid in feeling that way. Your intent may not have been to rape, but it still happened.
[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39939645]He does have some genuinely terrible views though, I haven't watched enough of the guy's videos to form a concrete opinion of him but from what I have seen I wouldn't use him to illustrate a point.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39939690]Everyone knows the guys a joke at this point regardless and that his "point" is actually terrible (both in reasoning and the effects it has on the 13-17 young male set he panders his angry videos to) so people just bring up a weird quirky story about him.
If you want to defend internet personalities against ad hominem attacks there are far better human beings to side with.[/QUOTE]
If someone has a terrible argument prove it wrong, it shouldn't be hard if it's terrible.
Going "his point is wrong because he did/said this or that" comes off as ignorant and childish.
I remember when games were about fun.
Heck, I remember when games did not pander to any ones agenda except its fan base.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939726]If someone has a terrible argument prove it wrong, it shouldn't be hard if it's terrible.
Going "his point is wrong because he did/said this or that" comes off as ignorant and childish.[/QUOTE]
ok dude it was a joke can you drop it
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39939708]Don't know what question you're referring to, just ask it again. 'Implied consent' isn't ridiculous. It would be impossible to have sex while intoxicated in any way without it. You might be misunderstanding me. Say you're in a relationship with someone and you two are very sexually active. If you get drunk and she's willing (not giving consent, these things are different - you can't consent when drunk) to have sex and doesn't become unwilling or say no, or become unwilling in any way during sex, it is OK to imply that she would be fine with it based on your prior experience or your knowledge of the person.
It would NOT be OK to get drunk with someone you've never slept with or don't know and have sex with them regardless of if they're willing to do the act while drunk. If you do this and the person feels raped after the fact, they are completely valid in feeling that way. Your intent may not have been to rape, but it still happened.[/QUOTE]
What if both parties are drunk? They raped each other? Or is only the guy guilty of rape?
How much alcohol can you have in your blood before you can't give consent?
What if a woman is drunk and initiates the intercourse? Is she raped too?
Can you give consent without using words? Or is it always rape unless you ask "Hey, wanna have sex?" and the other person says "yes" and then asks back and the answer is "yes" too? What if people do it without any words?
Have you ever had sex?
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39939755]ok dude it was a joke can you drop it[/QUOTE]
I already replied to this.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39939755]ok dude it was a joke can you drop it[/QUOTE]
No. He said "everyone knows by now this guy is a joke..."
Not doing anything there to convince me that "his point is terrible"
Also Raidyr was not joking
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39939708]
It would NOT be OK to get drunk with someone you've never slept with or don't know and have sex with them regardless of if they're willing to do the act while drunk. If you do this and the person feels raped after the fact, they are completely valid in feeling that way. Your intent may not have been to rape, but it still happened.[/QUOTE]
This seems to assume that the blame would rest on you regardless of the effects of alcohol. Most people wouldn't, completely sober, proposition a drunk girl/guy to have sex with them. If you're both drunk, and your inhibitions have been loosened to the point where you initiate a sex act and the other person willingly accepts, then who's to blame? Is the feeling of shame that perhas both of you would maybe experience a feeling of being raped or what?
As with pretty much all rape, it's about power and control, in the most objective sense possible. If you consciously decide to have sex with a drunk girl who's so out of it she's asleep and can barely move, you have a disproportionate amount of power over that girl. IF you're both equally drunk and you or she initiates a sex act, she/you refuses but you do it anyway through physical force, that's you/her dominating the other physically and therefore being the more powerful. It's my view that if you're both equally lucid and you're both willing at that point then you're both equally culpable for any less than stellar ramifications after the fact. Please feel free to pick holes in this, I probably haven't thought of a lot of eventualities.
[QUOTE=harryh11;39939794]No. He said "everyone knows by now this guy is a joke..."
Not doing anything there to convince me that "his point is terrible"
Also Raidyr was not joking[/QUOTE]
Wait, people seriously don't know about the crazy shit he has said when it comes to feminism and women in general? How can you still defend the guy when you don't even know the shit he says?
[QUOTE=Levithan;39936146]I may be pretty late, but this is why you shouldn't listen to this butthole's opinion:
[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8gyo1MhDY1qzunauo1_1280.png[/img][/QUOTE]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/EyAb686.png[/t]
He's also an MRA that seriously thinks misandry exists as a social problem, which is so wrong I should really not have to back it up.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939726]If someone has a terrible argument prove it wrong, it shouldn't be hard if it's terrible.
Going "his point is wrong because he did/said this or that" comes off as ignorant and childish.[/QUOTE]
I said his views, from what I've seen of them, aren't too great IMO. I don't know his stance or argument on this issue because I don't watch his videos because I'm just not a fan of them, just like I agree with Angry Joe on a lot of points he make but find him painful to watch. Having not seen his argument, however having seen his stance on feminism and women in the past, I'd value his opinion less than someone who hasn't said stuff like that. Calling someone an idiot isn't that wrong if you're not trying to rove anything, just that you think they're an idiot. It's why I'd rather not get my news from the daily mail, because it has proven itself to be an unending source of nut brown piss.
im rollin my eyes so hard
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939760]What if both parties are drunk? They raped each other? Or is only the guy guilty of rape?[/quote]
Nothing to do with the gender actually. The perpetrator is the rapist, if they both feel they were raped it's probably the fault of the one who initiated the rape.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939760]
How much alcohol can you have in your blood before you can't give consent? [/quote] No clue, I'm not a legal expert on this.[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939760]
What if a woman is drunk and initiates the intercourse? Is she raped too?[/quote] Don't know what you mean by, "too", but it's possible for a drunk person to feel raped even though they initiated the contact. I don't want to say in this context because it's a made up story with no details. I'd say in most cases, if this goes to court, I would say the perpetrator shouldn't be charged if he's also drunk or whatever, even if the person feels raped. If the person's sober and the person who feels raped is slurring their speech, I feel they should call a cab for them and send them home.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939760]Can you give consent without using words? Or is it always rape unless you ask "Hey, wanna have sex?" and the other person says "yes" and then asks back and the answer is "yes" too? What if people do it without any words?[/quote]
Yeah, I already talked about this. Consent is a hard topic to discuss. It would be best if you outright asked, but that's a naive way to think about things and will not happen. You should be aware of a persons body language and stop immediately if they look uncomfortable or say no. The person should be enthusiastic.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39939760]
Have you ever had sex?[/quote]
This isn't relevant to the discussion and I will not answer.
[QUOTE=Winters;39937591]She didn't ask for $100k though.[/QUOTE]
To what charity did she donate the funds she didn't need?
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39939883]im rollin my eyes so hard
Nothing to do with the gender actually. The perpetrator is the rapist, if they both feel they were raped it's probably the fault of the one who initiated the rape.
No clue, I'm not a legal expert on this. Don't know what you mean by, "too", but it's possible for a drunk person to feel raped even though they initiated the contact. I don't want to say in this context because it's a made up story with no details. I'd say in most cases, if this goes to court, I would say the perpetrator shouldn't be charged if he's also drunk or whatever, even if the person feels raped. If the person's sober and the person who feels raped is slurring their speech, I feel they should call a cab for them and send them home.
Yeah, I already talked about this. Consent is a hard topic to discuss. It would be best if you outright asked, but that's a naive way to think about things and will not happen. You should be aware of a persons body language and stop immediately if they look uncomfortable or say no. The person should be enthusiastic.
This isn't relevant to the discussion and I will not answer.[/QUOTE]
Quick thing I was wondering about, what if 2 lesbians get drunk and have sex, then both of them felt raped so accused each other of rape. Do both become guilty until proven innocent?
[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39939863]I said his views, from what I've seen of them, aren't too great IMO. I don't know his stance or argument on this issue because I don't watch his videos because I'm just not a fan of them, just like I agree with Angry Joe on a lot of points he make but find him painful to watch.[/QUOTE]
The Amazing Atheist has always been controversial and combative when it came to opinions, but his ideas on religion and politics weren't particularly that bad. It's his latest social policy crusade of just being batshit insane and saying horrible stuff that people have issues with.
I used to watch his videos (never subscribed) but kinda slowed down when he was whining about feminists and how hard being a white male in America is.
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39939887]To what charity did she donate the funds she didn't need?[/QUOTE]
Did she do that? If so, that's nice of her, I was operating under the assumption with was a massively bloated overrfunded production with her somehow managing to find a way of spending 100k on youtube videos.
[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39939845]It's my view that if you're both equally lucid and you're both willing at that point then you're both equally culpable for any less than stellar ramifications after the fact.[/QUOTE]
I think I answered this above, but if either legitimately feels raped they are valid in feeling that way, and at the same time if it went to court I would be all for saying they're not guilty.
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39939887]To what charity did she donate the funds she didn't need?
[/QUOTE]
Why do you care?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39939883]im rollin my eyes so hard[/QUOTE]
whoa man you're pretty fukken hardcore
better not mess with this nigga right here
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39939887]Quick thing I was wondering about, what if 2 lesbians get drunk and have sex, then both of them felt raped so accused each other of rape. Do both become guilty until proven innocent?[/QUOTE]
How many of these straw arguments am I going to have to defeat omg.
The gender and sexual orientation doesn't matter.
If one held any sort of power over the other, they're the perpetrator.
If not, they're both valid in feeling that way, and the case should be dismissed if it went to court.
[editline]16th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;39939925]whoa man you're pretty fukken hardcore
better not mess with this nigga right here[/QUOTE]
i just rolled my eyes again man
be careful
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39939923]Why do you care?[/QUOTE]
Maybe he backed her and wants to know what she's doing with $150,000
[QUOTE=harryh11;39939970]Maybe he backed her and wants to know what she's doing with $150,000[/QUOTE]
Would he want his money to go to charity? Why wouldn't he just give it to charity himself?
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39939887]To what charity did she donate the funds she didn't need?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://i.imgur.com/C8rVMqn.jpg]I was under the assumption that she used it to buy modern videogames.[/url] Hence why she's taking long.
His first point shows where he goes wrong with most of his arguments.
[img]http://i47.tinypic.com/f3uyjd.jpg[/img]
He's acting as if feminism is a personal pursuit and if someone does something that works against them it's not a big deal. In the words of the President, "women are not an interest group."
[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39939921]Did she do that? If so, that's nice of her, I was operating under the assumption with was a massively bloated overrfunded production with her somehow managing to find a way of spending 100k on youtube videos.[/QUOTE]
What a bitch. I would have donated the change to a charity at once.
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;39940071][url=http://i.imgur.com/C8rVMqn.jpg]I was under the assumption that she used it to buy modern videogames.[/url] Hence why she's taking long.[/QUOTE]
Could she not have asked people to send her 2nd hand games? Did she really need brand new ones?
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39940104]What a bitch. I would have donated the change to a charity at once.[/QUOTE]
Wow you'd steal peoples money and donate it in your name? What a dick! They wanted that money to go to you for video production.
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