[QUOTE=yawmwen;39946630]then wtf are you talking about? use your own fucking common sense to realize when a woman is able to consent to sex we don't need to hypothesize every fucking potential situation that can occur in this thread.
besides we have already gone over this, it's just you playing dumb because you want to make some stupid point about how it's ok to have sex when you are drunk sometimes which doesn't even need to really be discussed anymore.
so go ahead, keep beating the dead horse. it only makes you look like a weirdo.[/QUOTE]
A guy who glances over my post, replies to something that I explicitly said I don't mean asks me "wtf am I talking about" and tells me to use common sense and that it makes me look like weirdo. Wow.
I replied to a guy that I was talking to last time I was in this thread. It's not my fault you can't read. It's not that I don't know "when a woman is able to consent" I was talking to a guy who clearly can't. That's why I asked those questions. I wanted to understand his point of view.
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39946687]It depends on how it happens. If you're under the influence your inhibitions are way lower so it's easy for you to say "yes" to a lot of things, so it's complicated.
For instance, if someone's drunk and wants to have sex with you, it's not rape because there's consent from both parties. If you want to have sex with someone who is drunk but still lucid enough to consent then it's not rape either. Everyone has full responsibility of their actions here.
The problem is when you deliberately pick the most fucked up person in the party in full knowledge that they aren't in their right state of mind.
If this is what you were trying to say, then I misunderstood you before and I agree, if not feel free to correct me.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, seems like we agree completely on this. I might have worded myself poorly when making the first post on this page since I continued a discussion from few pages back, sorry if that's the case.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39946689]
Well yeah, seems like we agree completely on this. I might have worded myself poorly when making the first post on this page since I continued a discussion from few pages back, sorry if that's the case.[/QUOTE]
Good, glad we understand eachother now. It's just that from the confusing way you worded your post it seemed like you were victim blaming.
[editline]wait[/editline]
wasn't this thread about anita sarkeesian?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39946689]A guy who glances over my post, replies to something that I explicitly said I don't mean asks me "wtf am I talking about" and tells me to use common sense and that it makes me look like weirdo. Wow.
I replied to a guy that I was talking to last time I was in this thread. It's not my fault you can't read. It's not that I don't know "when a woman is able to consent" I was talking to a guy who clearly can't. That's why I asked those questions. I wanted to understand his point of view.[/QUOTE]
you talking bout shadaez? because he's right. obviously it's you who doesn't understand the concept of consent.
here is a nice little checklist to determine whether you are raping or not. both must be checked to not be rapey.
1. girl must be able to reasonably consent. i.e. not drunk, not being coerced
2. girl must actually consent. not saying no does not always mean consent
if you fail to meet one of these criteria you are quite possibly raping someone.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39946753]Good, glad we understand eachother now. It's just that from the confusing way you worded your post it seemed like you were victim blaming.[/QUOTE]
Nah, I was just saying that you can give consent if you're under influence of alcohol (excluding the situation where you're too far out to make any decision) to a guy who said that if you she had alcohol, it's always rape.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39946753]wasn't this thread about anita sarkeesian?[/QUOTE]
It's a thread on facepunch with "feminism" in the title what did you expect :v:
[QUOTE=thisispain;39940965]for an "insane" movement it sure did a lot of good, i mean unless you dont like lgbt rights or sexual freedoms[/QUOTE]
Feminism is womens rights. Not equal rights. Feminism is developing into female supremacy and it ignores mens rights and problems facing men. Feminism has nothing to do with LGBT.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39946816]It's a thread on facepunch with "feminism" in the title what did you expect :v:[/QUOTE]
Crazy posts like this.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;39946830]Feminism is womens rights. Not equal rights. Feminism is developing into female supremacy and it ignores mens rights and problems facing men. Feminism has nothing to do with LGBT.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39946791]you talking bout shadaez? because he's right. obviously it's you who doesn't understand the concept of consent.
here is a nice little checklist to determine whether you are raping or not. both must be checked to not be rapey.
1. girl must be able to reasonably consent. i.e. not drunk, not being coerced
2. girl must actually consent. not saying no does not always mean consent
if you fail to meet one of these criteria you are quite possibly raping someone.[/QUOTE]
First of all define "not drunk". Is one beer okay? How about 2? Not being able to walk by yourself or make any decisions for yourself? If the last one, then we agree, although I'd call it "not hammered" not "not drunk".
I'll give you some examples and you tell me whether it's rape or not okay?
2 strangers meet at lets say a beach, they spend some time together, they go to an apartment when they start making out and then they have sex. No alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
2 strangers meet at a bar, drink a couple of drinks, go to an apartment where they start making out and have sex. Alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
A girl is watching a movie with her boyfriend/husband, they start making out and have sex. No alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
A guy takes his wife out to a restaurant where they each have a glass of wine they go home and have sex. Alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
A guy asks a woman "do you want to have sex?" to which she replies "yes, do you?", to which the guy says "yes" and only then they have sex.
If only the last one isn't rape you need to get a reality check.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;39946830]Feminism is womens rights. Not equal rights.[/QUOTE]
no this is stupid and wrong
Critics of feminism (and of social justice movements in general) have transmogrified the main intent of feminism (which is to raise women's status to be on par with men by focusing mainly on the problems faced by women) into a zero-sum "fuck-everyone-else" narrative that presupposes that women have already achieved equality, which is not the case.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;39946830] Feminism has nothing to do with LGBT.[/QUOTE]
Third-wave feminism has made large attempts to incorporate the LGBT struggle into theirs.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39946913]First of all define "not drunk". Is one beer okay? How about 2? Not being able to walk by yourself or make any decisions for yourself? If the last one, then we agree, although I'd call it "not hammered" not "not drunk".
I'll give you some examples and you tell me whether it's rape or not okay?
2 strangers meet at lets say a beach, they spend some time together, they go to an apartment when they start making out and then they have sex. No alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
2 strangers meet at a bar, drink a couple of drinks, go to an apartment where they start making out and have sex. Alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
A girl is watching a movie with her boyfriend/husband, they start making out and have sex. No alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
A guy takes his wife out to a restaurant where they each have a glass of wine they go home and have sex. Alcohol involved and nobody asked anyone "do you want to have sex?"
A guy asks a woman "do you want to have sex?" to which she replies "yes, do you?", to which the guy says "yes" and only then they have sex.
If only the last one isn't rape you need to get a reality check.[/QUOTE]
this is what i was talking about when i said you look like a fucking rapey weirdo. we don't need to go over every possible situation simply because you lack the common sense to tell when a person is able to reasonably consent to sex.
Consent isn't necessarily always explicit though, if you start making out with someone and they go along with it, then it's safe to assume they're consenting. Like you said, it always comes down to common sense, really.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39947001]this is what i was talking about when i said you look like a fucking rapey weirdo. we don't need to go over every possible situation simply because you lack the common sense to tell when a person is able to reasonably consent to sex.[/QUOTE]
Insults and backpedaling in one post. I know when it's not rape. When people aren't coerced or in a state of mind where they defend themselves from being taken advantage of.
The questions were, again, to understand your point of view which you realize is too ridiculous to show straight up so you resort to insults.
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39947040]Consent isn't necessarily always explicit though, if you start making out with someone and they go along with it, then it's safe to assume they're consenting. Like you said, it always comes down to common sense, really.[/QUOTE]
That's what I'd say too but yawnmen said
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39946791]2. girl must actually consent. not saying no does not always mean consent[/QUOTE]
And going with that logic all those situations I posted above except the last one are rape according to him.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39946384]Your argument isn't void because that. It's void because it's irrelevant, whatever she did with the money holds absolutely no weight on her arguments. You're trying to dismiss what she said in her video by picking on an unrelated fact and implying she stole your money. That's not only irrelevant, it's ad hominem.[/QUOTE]
You're the one putting them together. I'm arguing a completely different point to which your only answer is to cry straw man and deflect the issue. Explain to me please, why if a project is over funded, can the backers not be reimbursed so that another project can be funded. She does not need that much money to produce the product she is offering.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947051]Insults and backpedaling in one post. I know when it's not rape. When people aren't coerced or in a state of mind where they defend themselves from being taken advantage of.
The questions were, again, to understand your point of view which you realize is too ridiculous to show straight up so you resort to insults.[/quote]
no you're way to ridiculous because you want a straight yes or no for every potential sexual encounter that can happen.
[quote]That's what I'd say but yawnmen said
And going with that logic all those situations I posted above except the last one are rape according to him.[/QUOTE]
yea not saying no does not always mean consent. if you lack that little piece of common sense then you really are a rape waiting to happen.
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39947040]Consent isn't necessarily always explicit though, if you start making out with someone and they go along with it, then it's safe to assume they're consenting. Like you said, it always comes down to common sense, really.[/QUOTE]
yea it's situational and it should be obvious when someone is actually consenting to sexual advances or not.
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39947098]You're the one putting them together. I'm arguing a completely different point to which your only answer is to cry straw man and deflect the issue. Explain to me please, why if a project is over funded, can the backers not be reimbursed so that another project can be funded. She does not need that much money to produce the product she is offering.[/QUOTE]
Because the creator of the project decided not to? Seriously I don't think she needed that much money either, but she got it, and that's that. Sure, reimbursing the money would've been nice, but she didn't do it. I don't necessarily agree with her decisions but it doesn't matter to me because a) I didn't fund it and b) We still got the videos and it doesn't detract from her argument.
[editline]hey[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39947109]
yea it's situational and it should be obvious when someone is actually consenting to sexual advances or not.[/QUOTE]
then why are we all disagreeing lol
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39947109]no you're way to ridiculous because you want a straight yes or no for every potential sexual encounter that can happen.
yea not saying no does not always mean consent. if you lack that little piece of common sense then you really are a rape waiting to happen.[/QUOTE]
I don't need you to give me recipe for life. I want to know your point of view. Is it so difficult to comprehend? I already know the answers to those questions. I want to know what you think. I want to know what your point is because you are being vague and all you seem to be doing when I ask you to specify what you mean is saying that I lack common sense and spewing insults.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39947184]Because the creator of the project decided not to? Seriously I don't think she needed that much money either, but she got it, and that's that. Sure, reimbursing the money would've been nice, but she didn't do it. I don't necessarily agree with her decisions but it doesn't matter to me because a) I didn't fund it and b) We still got the videos and it doesn't detract from her argument.[/QUOTE]
Truly a regrettable decision. I would tell backers to think twice next time she tries to raise money for a cause. If you're happy with what you've received, you must be pretty easy to please.
The phrase " getting bang for your buck " must be one you aren't familiar with.
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39947219]Truly a regrettable decision. I would tell backers to think twice next time she tries to raise money for a cause. If you're happy with what you've received, you must be pretty easy to please.
The phrase " getting bang for your buck " must be one you aren't familiar with.[/QUOTE]
Well, to be fair, we've only seen one video. And while I mostly agree with what she's doing, I do have a lot of criticisms regarding the video. Mostly the overly simplistic presentation (it could be much more impressive considering her funding) and the way she's organizing the videos (with all the negative examples first and the positive ones near the end). Which I hope will be addressed eventually.
But like I said, she makes solid criticism that shouldn't be dismissed because you disagree with some of her other decisions.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947051]Insults and backpedaling in one post. I know when it's not rape. When people aren't coerced or in a state of mind where they defend themselves from being taken advantage of.
The questions were, again, to understand your point of view which you realize is too ridiculous to show straight up so you resort to insults.
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
That's what I'd say too but yawnmen said
And going with that logic all those situations I posted above except the last one are rape according to him.[/QUOTE]
You're being rapey. Not saying no doesn't ALWAYS mean consent. That means not every time a person stays silent they consent. It doesn't mean every time someone's silent they don't consent. If a girl a laying there stiff, and doesn't look like she's comfortable with where things are going and you just keep going - congrats you're a rapist!
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947201]I don't need you to give me recipe for life. I want to know your point of view. Is it so difficult to comprehend? I already know the answers to those questions. I want to know what you think. I want to know what your point is because you are being vague and all you seem to be doing when I ask you to specify what you mean is saying that I lack common sense and spewing insults.[/QUOTE]
my point of view is literally this:
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39946791]
here is a nice little checklist to determine whether you are raping or not. both must be checked to not be rapey.
1. girl must be able to reasonably consent. i.e. not drunk, not being coerced
2. girl must actually consent. not saying no does not always mean consent
if you fail to meet one of these criteria you are quite possibly raping someone.[/QUOTE]
if the girl is able to reasonably consent to sex, and actually does consent, then it's not rape.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39947040]Consent isn't necessarily always explicit though, if you start making out with someone and they go along with it, then it's safe to assume they're consenting. Like you said, it always comes down to common sense, really.[/QUOTE]
No, we have to require everybody to sign contracts before any intimate activity. I swear, some feminists.
I agree with you, I really hate how common sense is no longer applied, feminism, finger guns, etc.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39947344]You're being rapey. Not saying no doesn't ALWAYS mean consent. That means not every time a person stays silent they consent. It doesn't mean every time someone's silent they don't consent. If a girl a laying there stiff, and doesn't look like she's comfortable with where things are going and you just keep going - congrats you're a rapist![/QUOTE]
I don't know who you're replying to because I've never said anything like that.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;39947381]No, we have to require everybody to sign contracts before any intimate activity. I swear, some feminists.
I agree with you, I really hate how common sense is no longer applied, feminism, finger guns, etc.[/QUOTE]
idk who this straw feminist you made up to attack is, but they sound nonexistent
stop being silly
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;39946830]Feminism is womens rights. Not equal rights. Feminism is developing into female supremacy and it ignores mens rights and problems facing men. Feminism has nothing to do with LGBT.[/QUOTE]
Right so you know nothing about actual feminism.
Good to know.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947395]I don't know who you're replying to because I've never said anything like that.[/QUOTE]
I'm replying to you, and you claimed that every one of those scnerario except the last were rape according to yawmen, when they clearly aren't. You don't understand implied or assumed (idk if these are the right words) consent, and it seems like you don't understand how silence also could mean no.
People arguing over consent to sex when they probably have never had the chance.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;39947381]No, we have to require everybody to sign contracts before any intimate activity. I swear, some feminists.
I agree with you, I really hate how common sense is no longer applied, feminism, finger guns, etc.[/QUOTE]
Literally nobody is saying those things you're complaining about. When someone says "consent is required" they don't literally mean you have to ask "DO YOU WISH TO COPULATE?" everytime you want to have sex. Don't just take things at face value.
p.s. i am a feminist
[editline]lol[/editline]
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39947436]People arguing over consent to sex when they probably have never had the chance.[/QUOTE]
get a load of casanova here [sp]you're pathetic[/sp]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39947366]my point of view is literally this:
here is a nice little checklist to determine whether you are raping or not. both must be checked to not be rapey.
1. girl must be able to reasonably consent. i.e. not drunk, not being coerced
2. girl must actually consent. not saying no does not always mean consent
if you fail to meet one of these criteria you are quite possibly raping someone.
if the girl is able to reasonably consent to sex, and actually does consent, then it's not rape.[/QUOTE]
Which is vague and I'll ask you again to specify what you mean by that but you're probably going to resort to insults again.
What do you mean by "not drunk"? How much can you have before you can't give consent? From my point of view it's when you are hammered. When you don't really know what's happening with you and you'd don't have common sense anymore. What's your view on this?
What do you mean by "girl must actually consent"? Does she have to say "I want to have sex with you" or answer "yes" to a question like "do you want to have sex with me"? Or is taking my pants off and sucking my cock enough to assume that she gives her consent?
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39947428]I'm replying to you, and you claimed that every one of those scnerario except the last were rape according to yawmen, when they clearly aren't. You don't understand implied or assumed (idk if these are the right words) consent, and it seems like you don't understand how silence also could mean no.[/QUOTE]
He's the one who said "girl must actually consent." you dork. I replied to that. It was according to his logic not mine. You are not only detached from reality but also illiterate.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947464]Or is taking my pants off and sucking my cock enough to assume that she gives her consent?[/QUOTE]
like, honestly did you even read the number 2 in that list of two things, it explains this type of scenario
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947464]He's the one who said "girl must actually consent." you dork. I replied to that. It was according to his logic not mine. You are not only detached from reality but also illiterate.[/QUOTE]
2. girl must actually consent. not saying no does not always mean consent
this means the lack of a no isn't always a yes, but if can be a yes
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947464]Which is vague and I'll ask you again to specify what you mean by that but you're probably going to resort to insults again.
What do you mean by "not drunk"? How much can you have before you can't give consent? From my point of view it's when you are hammered. When you don't really know what's happening with you and you'd don't have common sense anymore. What's your view on this?[/quote]
i can't answer this because it isn't the same for everyone. that's why i said it's common sense. is the person lucid? do they have full control of their body? are they able to make decisions?
[quote]What do you mean by "girl must actually consent"? Does she have to say "I want to have sex with you" or answer "yes" to a question like "do you want to have sex with me"? Or is taking my pants off and sucking my cock enough to assume that she gives her consent?[/QUOTE]
again, it's fucking common sense. is the person reciprocating your advances? is the person stiff or reluctant?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39947464]Which is vague and I'll ask you again to specify what you mean by that but you're probably going to resort to insults again.
What do you mean by "not drunk"? How much can you have before you can't give consent? From my point of view it's when you are hammered. When you don't really know what's happening with you and you'd don't have common sense anymore. What's your view on this?
What do you mean by "girl must actually consent"? Does she have to say "I want to have sex with you" or answer "yes" to a question like "do you want to have sex with me"? Or is taking my pants off and sucking my cock enough to assume that she gives her consent?[/QUOTE]
I think he means you need to stop analyzing it like that, because it [I]is[/I] pretty weird. But really you can't measure it like "you must be this drunk to be considered a rape victim" because it's really dependent on the person and context.
But if you need an example "consenting" would be actively (and willingly) participating in the sexual act (basically, reciprocating) and not being reluctant or just waiting for you to be done with it. If in doubt, ask.
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