[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949138]sorry for hurting your feelings? I've clarified and made plenty of people to understand the whole drunk consent thing. This isn't radical or anything, it's the US law[/QUOTE]
From your perspective maybe. From my perspective all I see is a guy who ranted and flung shit at people for hours online. Like, I don't mean to be rude, but how else am I supposed to interpret pages and pages of arguing. You're probably a pretty nice dude in real life, but based on your arguing, I fail to get that impression.
Nothing productive has really even been done in this whole "debate". Ive done more worthwhile stuff in the past two hours just by exercising and practicing art. In the course of this whole "debate" all that's been achieved is a bunch of people are pissed off at eachother.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39949345]From your perspective maybe. From my perspective all I see is a guy who ranted and flung shit at people for hours online.
Nothing productive has really even been done in this whole "debate". Ive done more worthwhile stuff in the past two hours just by exercising and practicing art. In the course of this whole "debate" all that's been achieved is a bunch of people are pissed off at eachother.[/QUOTE]
This has just devolved into a flame war. This is what is destined to happen to all debates about feminism. Feminists are being irrational, men are getting annoyed and nothing of value is being learned by either side.
wow dang arent you better than me
are you going to add anything to our internet fight or not, i have more angry man hating to post
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39949143]What kind of proof do you need to convict someone for rape then?
Also have in mind that we're talking about situation where you know who did it and you indeed had sex. Ignoring the victim withdrawal, not being able to identify the offender and not being able to prove intercourse, your chances of conviction in that case are pretty good from what I understand.
[/QUOTE]
depends on the country i think. in the usa it's hard to prove rape even if you can prove you had sex because it's easy to just say the sex was consensual.
Is this argument still going on
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39949345]From your perspective maybe. From my perspective all I see is a guy who ranted and flung shit at people for hours online. Like, I don't mean to be rude, but how else am I supposed to interpret pages and pages of arguing. You're probably a pretty nice dude in real life, but based on your arguing, I fail to get that impression.
Nothing productive has really even been done in this whole "debate". Ive done more worthwhile stuff in the past two hours just by exercising and practicing art. In the course of this whole "debate" all that's been achieved is a bunch of people are pissed off at eachother.[/QUOTE]
I just have to ask why post in here at all if you think it's so useless? Obviously some people here enjoy a good debate (or argument as it may be), that's why they post.
I mean coming in here and saying how much more productive you are than all of these people who're just disusing things that interest them you are kinda coming off as a bit of an ass.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949195]This is wrong, I agree with most of the rest. If you drink and have sex, then wake up and don't feel raped, you weren't. Doesn't mean the opposite isn't true. This isn't about regret.[/QUOTE]
Regret as in "you wouldn't do it if it wasn't for reason x, if you were thinking clearly". Be it alcohol, spur of the moment, being horny, because other people are fucking around you left and right or other reasons. Following this "if you're under the influence and you say yes to something you'd otherwise say no to"
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949195]this is where you're wrong, responsibility for your actions is completely different to being raped[/QUOTE]
A girl drinks a drink and meets a guy who she never knew before. They dance and talk, he takes her to his place where they have sex. According to you she's been raped. The problem I have with this is that the drunk person is being treated like it can't think for itself and isn't responsible for it's actions. You're acting like drinking a beer puts you into a state of mind where you can't say "no" and where people can do with you whatever they want, meaning you have no responsibility for your actions.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949195]you act as if a drunk girl is putting you in danger...[/QUOTE]
Well she's putting me in danger of becoming a rapist...
It's a joke.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949388]wow dang arent you better than me
are you going to add anything to our internet fight or not, i have more angry man hating to post[/QUOTE]
So I'm not allowed to voice my opinion because I don't want to participate in what's become a shit flinging contest? You guys act like you're debating, but the second someone says something you don't like, youll shitpost at them.
Your post kinda illustrates what I mean. I tried to put my opinion politely, but because it went against yours, you shitposted at me.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39949411]depends on the country i think. in the usa it's hard to prove rape even if you can prove you had sex because it's easy to just say the sex was consensual.[/QUOTE]
That would mean that unless the victim is beaten, has footage or witnesses, the rapist goes free? That's pretty fucked in the other direction.
[QUOTE=Winters;39949436]I just have to ask why post in here at all if you think it's so useless? Obviously some people here enjoy a good debate (or argument as it may be), that's why they post.
I mean coming in here and saying how much more productive you are than all of these people who're just disusing things that interest them you are kinda coming off as a bit of an ass.[/QUOTE]
The only reason I ever really go into threads like these are because I'm trying to pass the time when I'm exercising. It's more entertaining that just doing nothing. Hell I was so distracted I accidentally did two and a half extra miles.
I won't deny that I find flame wars entertaining to read.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39949510]That would mean that unless the victim is beaten, has footage or witnesses, the rapist goes free? That's pretty fucked in the other direction.[/QUOTE]
it is incredibly fucked up and a lot of potential rapists [i]do[/i] get off. rape is an incredibly tough crime to prove in court unless there is evidence of violent force or witness testimony.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39949470]So I'm not allowed to voice my opinion because I don't want to participate in what's become a shit flinging contest? You guys act like you're debating, but the second someone says something you don't like, youll shitpost at them.
Your post kinda illustrates what I mean. I tried to put my opinion politely, but because it went against yours, you shitposted at me.[/QUOTE]
Your allowed to post but your not really contributing what so ever to the discusion, in fact you've only furthered derailed and further pulled it into a shit flinging contest. I mean do you see how counter productive your post was? We've now delved even further from the topic of debate because you felt it necessary to say how unproductive we were and how much time we were wasting typing messages on a forum.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39949458]Regret as in "you wouldn't do it if it wasn't for reason x, if you were thinking clearly". Be it alcohol, spur of the moment, being horny, because other people are fucking around you left and right or other reasons. Following this "if you're under the influence and you say yes to something you'd otherwise say no to"
You're acting like drinking a beer puts you into a state of mind where you can't say "no" and where people can do with you whatever they want, meaning you have no responsibility for your actions.
[/QUOTE]
no, it makes you more likely to say yes, there is a clear difference
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39949458]A girl drinks a drink and meets a guy who she never knew before. They dance and talk, he takes her to his place where they have sex. According to you she's been raped.
[/QUOTE]
not necessarily, stop acting like its so black and white
[QUOTE=Winters;39949534]Your allowed to post but your not really contributing what so ever to the discusion, in fact you've only furthered derailed and further pulled it into a shit flinging contest. I mean do you see how counter productive your post was? We've now delved even further from the topic of debate because you felt it necessary to say how unproductive we were and how much time we were wasting typing messages on a forum.[/QUOTE]
And why do I have to contribute to this so called discussion. Why am I not allowed to voice my opinion on something that's gone out of hand. Its just as irrelavent to the thread as discussing rape.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39949345]From your perspective maybe. From my perspective all I see is a guy who ranted and flung shit at people for hours online. Like, I don't mean to be rude, but how else am I supposed to interpret pages and pages of arguing. You're probably a pretty nice dude in real life, but based on your arguing, I fail to get that impression.
Nothing productive has really even been done in this whole "debate". Ive done more worthwhile stuff in the past two hours just by exercising and practicing art. In the course of this whole "debate" all that's been achieved is a bunch of people are pissed off at eachother.[/QUOTE]
It might seem like a useless and nonproductive thing to do but arguing about about issues like this one does help spread awareness. Think about it. A few years ago a thread like this would've become an even worse shitstorm and would've probably been locked. The fact that we are discussing it in a relatively (i use relatively because there are still people who get their emotions get the best of them) civil manner is a sign of progress.
Shit, a year ago I would've been here complaining that feminists take everything too seriously and are crazy/stupid whatever, but seeing the argument coming up everywhere made me want to research on the subject and I [I]did[/I] have a change of heart and began seeing things differently.
Just my two cents.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39949582]And why do I have to contribute to this so called discussion. Why am I not allowed to voice my opinion on something that's gone out of hand. Its just as irrelavent to the thread as discussing rape.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you get to decide the validity of this topic of discussion and what is relevant or irrelevant. I also don't think you get to decide the importance of this discussion simply because it does not effect you in any manner.
These DinoJesus posts are getting out of hand. All they intend to do is increase his already over-inflated ego. Wow! You ran 2 miles while reading this on your iPad at your local gym! You also make sure you tell us how you disapprove of our childish banter, thus asserting your superiority. Aren't you so great.
seriously please knock it off
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949580]no, it makes you more likely to say yes, there is a clear difference[/QUOTE]
Okay? And that means that means you have no influence on what's happening to you? Sorry but until that, you are responsible for your actions including having sex with someone. Therefore it's not rape.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949580]not necessarily, stop acting like its so black and white[/QUOTE]
You're the one who said you can't give consent under influence of alcohol.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;39949640]Shit, a year ago I would've been here complaining that feminists take everything too seriously and are crazy/stupid whatever, but seeing the argument coming up everywhere made me want to research on the subject and I [I]did[/I] have a change of heart and began seeing things differently.
Just my two cents.[/QUOTE]
if someone said I'd be a vegan and feminist when i was 16 i'd probably laugh in their face and call them a faggot :(
[editline]17th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;39949700]Okay? And that means that means you have no influence on what's happening to you? Sorry but until that, you are responsible for your actions including having sex with someone. Therefore it's not rape.
You're the one who said you can't give consent under influence of alcohol.[/QUOTE]
ok bottom line, if you feel raped and you meet those conditions, you were, if not, you werent
[QUOTE=Aiksey;39923535]Honestly I'm all for black people's rights.
But we're different.
Black people need to embrace who they are, and not try to be what they aren't.
any difference is just the way our species works, down to the biological core.
lel[/QUOTE]
there are biologic differences between races.
He was talking about that, not about rights, it just does not apply.
He didnt say they were worse, just different.
Its like when people say "down syndrome people are just like us"
this is going to sound very assholish, but thats bullshit and we all know it.
And if this anita lady is going all up for women equality, she better get on topics like
women salary instead of an specific market that even if it has flaws on sex equality, it has the faults of every other enterteinament form we see, like tv, movies or comics, oh, and it goes on both directions.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39949345]From your perspective maybe. From my perspective all I see is a guy who ranted and flung shit at people for hours online. Like, I don't mean to be rude, but how else am I supposed to interpret pages and pages of arguing. You're probably a pretty nice dude in real life, but based on your arguing, I fail to get that impression.
Nothing productive has really even been done in this whole "debate". Ive done more worthwhile stuff in the past two hours just by exercising and practicing art. In the course of this whole "debate" all that's been achieved is a bunch of people are pissed off at eachother.[/QUOTE]
thank goodness we have your utmost assurance on the fact that you post degrading white noise posts that only jab at people
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;39946830]Feminism is womens rights. Not equal rights. Feminism is developing into female supremacy and it ignores mens rights and problems facing men. Feminism has nothing to do with LGBT.[/QUOTE]
I won't make a rude reply to this.
The ideal of feminism is for females to gain the same rights as men. Since males are considered to be the most advantaged gender in history, people view it as gaining equal rights.
I think that the movement has been criticized for the wrong reasons. I've never seen the same backlash when Anita did it to other media like TV shows and movies. Why's that?
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39949345]From your perspective maybe. From my perspective all I see is a guy who ranted and flung shit at people for hours online. Like, I don't mean to be rude, but how else am I supposed to interpret pages and pages of arguing. You're probably a pretty nice dude in real life, but based on your arguing, I fail to get that impression.
Nothing productive has really even been done in this whole "debate". Ive done more worthwhile stuff in the past two hours just by exercising and practicing art. In the course of this whole "debate" all that's been achieved is a bunch of people are pissed off at eachother.[/QUOTE]
But you still went through the trouble of reading the thread and posting about how superior you are, eh?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39949580]no, it makes you more likely to say yes, there is a clear difference[/QUOTE]
So a girl after a beer will more likely say yes.
How about if she sees a guy parking a 2013 Porsche and him being interested in her? Why is beer considered this magical influence potion that can alter your brain chemistry to make you more likely say yes yet a Porsche driver isn't influencing at all?
I mean really, maybe if you're drunk, you could be thinking more straight because of the more relaxed state as opposed to the high stress state that you have after a workday or something. Maybe after a workday a lady would want to seek sex but after a beer or two she will realize that's not really a good idea.
Thoughts?
[QUOTE=maqzek;39950013]
How about if she sees a guy parking a 2013 Porsche and him being interested in her? Why is beer considered this magical influence potion that can alter your brain chemistry to make you more likely say yes yet a Porsche driver isn't influencing at all?[/QUOTE]
um because it actually does alter brain chemistry and can seriously impair the decision-making skill of the user.
[QUOTE=maqzek;39950013]So a girl after a beer will more likely say yes.
How about if she sees a guy parking a 2013 Porsche and him being interested in her? Why is beer considered this magical influence potion that can alter your brain chemistry to make you more likely say yes yet a Porsche driver isn't influencing at all?
I mean really, maybe if you're drunk, you could be thinking more straight because of the more relaxed state as opposed to the high stress state that you have after a workday or something. Maybe after a workday a lady would want to seek sex but after a beer or two she will realize that's not really a good idea.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Alcohol is known to lower people's inhibitions.
[QUOTE=maqzek;39950013]So a girl after a beer will more likely say yes.
How about if she sees a guy parking a 2013 Porsche and him being interested in her? Why is beer considered this magical influence potion that can alter your brain chemistry to make you more likely say yes yet a Porsche driver isn't influencing at all?
I mean really, maybe if you're drunk, you could be thinking more straight because of the more relaxed state as opposed to the high stress state that you have after a workday or something. Maybe after a workday a lady would want to seek sex but after a beer or two she will realize that's not really a good idea.
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Because alcohol directly affects brain function. Nice cars don't. That's the worst metaphor I've heard all day.
This thread really lit up.... Jesus.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39950063]um because it actually does alter brain chemistry and can seriously impair the decision-making skill of the user.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Valnar;39950102]Alcohol is known to lower people's inhibitions.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=postmanX3;39950149]Because alcohol directly affects brain function. Nice cars don't. That's the worst metaphor I've heard all day.[/QUOTE]
But shadaez said
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39948922]if you're under the influence and you say yes to something you'd otherwise say no to[/QUOTE]
Maybe the girl in question wouldn't sex the guy if he didn't have a nice car. Rape, following this logic.
This argument is so vague and so broad it can be used with a nice car, among other things.
[QUOTE=lifehole;39950165]This thread really lit up.... Jesus.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I go on one date and suddenly there is no hope of me catching up to all of this
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