[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;41685196]Kind of sad that this game holds a 1.6 on metacritic for user score.
Some people might be on the fence about it, but be completely turned off because 90% of these reviews ignore the actual game entirely and just focus on it's inaccuracy.
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
I mean JESUS[/QUOTE]
I gotta say, the game is just as fucking boring gameplay-wise as the previous one.
holy shit, CoH2 has soviet officers shooting their own men for rescuing officers? This is so fucking stupid. This anti-Soviet Red Scare propaganda that permeates Western society is getting tiresome.
Sounds like they are butthurt about their own history to me, the inaccuracies aren't that bad.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;41675520]He's way too nitpicky. Like when he was talking about the part where the game says Stalin sent troops to die but gets his panties in a bunch because the English, Americans, and Germans did the same thing but the game didn't mention it. Like what the hell, do you expect the game to just throw that tidbit of info in there?
"Stalin sent in thousands of troops to die but like so did the Americans and English and Nazis just not over here in Russia but I just thought you'd like to know anyway"[/QUOTE]
No, he's saying that the game acts as if only Stalin is evil for sending troops to war, when the first game didn't vilify the British, US or Nazis for doing the same thing.
[QUOTE=dingdongpuddi;41685743]holy shit, CoH2 has soviet officers shooting their own men for rescuing officers? This is so fucking stupid. This anti-Soviet Red Scare propaganda that permeates Western society is getting tiresome.[/QUOTE]
It's not anything to do with the Red Scare, it's just that CoH's writers were trying to write something more gritty and dramatic, but accidentally ended up overstepping the line between drama and historical accuracy.
[QUOTE=Hawke7;41686463]No, he's saying that the game acts as if only Stalin is evil for sending troops to war, when the first game didn't vilify the British, US or Nazis for doing the same thing.[/QUOTE]
Hell, the first game didn't even contain any nazis. Though that also goes for CoH2. You can argue that in Panzer Elite campaign player was leading an entire Panzer group "Lehr", which most likely would be an SS detachment, but the main characters have Heer ranks of, IIRC, leutenant and major instead of untersturmführer and sturmbannführer respectively.
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killuah;41685764]Sounds like they are butthurt about their own history to me, the inaccuracies aren't that bad.[/QUOTE]
Some are indeed just butthurt. But most of the people who actually voice their issues with the game, are genuinly dissapointed with the level of writing this game has. Indeed, "a soldier without a gun sent to attack machineguns" is borderline insult to player's intelligence, it's that bad trope to use.
Just because things happened rarely it doesn't mean it didn't happen at all.
Is a Russian soldier being sent to the gulag such an unbelievable thing ?
[QUOTE=Cabbage;41675370]If he wants to talk about how badly Russia is portrayed in video games he should really turn his attention to the Modern Warfare series.[/QUOTE]
Call of Duty is the summer blockbuster movie equivalent of video games. There is nothing inherently Russian in the ostensibly Russian people you shoot at/with/are shot by. Company of Heroes prides itself on authenticity if not complete realism, and should be held to a higher standard.
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
That said, CoH2 is a really fun RTS and it's a shame people are ripping the game for it's historical inaccuracy and overdramatic plot.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41680435][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing_(video_game)]Ethnic Cleansing[/url]. Who cares, it's just a game right?[/QUOTE]
16k posts and almost all of them are like this one?
You're unreal.
I don't believe this guy. Who guarantees that anything that he says is actually right?
His claim that the Soviets would be just as hurt by the winter as the Germans fails to take one really big thing into account: [URL="http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/camp/eur/ger/bar/weath/bcw-wint.html"]Hitler was so confident that the war would be over before winter that he refused to distribute winter equipment for morale reasons.[/URL]
Also, he [I]really[/I] does not do the penal battalions justice. Yes, you were let out of them after 1-3 months or after taking a serious injury on the battlefield, but people in those battalions would be lucky to make it that 3 months. As said by the main character, many Soviets considered those battalions to be death sentences. They were [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtrafbat"]literally used to clear minefields with their bodies.[/URL] These were the men you think of when you hear about officers ordering troops to charge directly at machine guns so that there were less bullets to be used on the standard infantry.
[QUOTE=dingdongpuddi;41685743]holy shit, CoH2 has soviet officers shooting their own men for rescuing officers? This is so fucking stupid. This anti-Soviet Red Scare propaganda that permeates Western society is getting tiresome.[/QUOTE]
That is fucking stupid, but guess what, by that time in World War 2 pretty much every country involved was pretty fucking stupid. There are stories of officers completely ignoring their logic and humanity to blindly follow rules and carry out orders for fear of being punished. While I don't know if the reward for saving an officer would nullify the punishment for completely ignoring orders, I find it believable that an officer would shoot a soldier for such an act. Regardless, I assume that Relic didn't know about the reward, and just chose a shitty way to show the harsh order kept by officers.
Though I do very much agree with him that they spent too much time showing or referencing Soviet atrocities, such as the rape and slaughter of German towns, while ignoring the same acts done by the Wermacht to Belarussians, I feel like he's trying to convince us that the complete opposite is true: That the Wermacht (along with the British and Americans to a smaller extent) were the real monsters, while the Soviets were bravely and honorably defending their homeland. The fact is that for every story of a road the Germans paved with the bodies of frozen Soviet prisoners near the start of the war, there is another story of Soviets massacring German orphanages near the end of the war. The German army was full of horribly supplied men convinced that the Russians were sub-human from 41 to 43, and the Soviet army was full of men who were encouraged to take revenge for that in 44 and 45.
Overall, I feel like Relic saw Spec Ops: The Line and thought "Oh shit, we can do things like THAT now!? Aw man, let's put that in the next Company of Heroes!" and then they tied every bad thing about the Soviet Union during that time together with a guy delivering a really shitty anti-war speech. Terrible writers? Yes, but a lot of the history [I]is[/I] kinda true, though they do exaggerate most of the points he brings up.
they should have just made a imperial guard game instead
then it'd have the gratuitous amount of sacrifice justified
My great-grandmother was evacuated to the Kamchatkan Peninsula during WW2, as we all know almost all of the population of Eastern-Russia was evacuated to the Urals and farther with the exception of Leningrad.
[editline]3rd August 2013[/editline]
I dunno i jsut wanted to share some trivia
[QUOTE=Episode;41675658] What a moron, what if they were just wrong?[/QUOTE]
They, developers, flat out stated that their game is purely "authentic"
I was excited for this game because I liked the first but I hadn't heard anything about it until now. Everything they showed looks like they watched Enemy at the Gates (one of the worst films I have ever seen) and just made a game out of it, just like the CoD campaign. I totally agree with him. It looks like I was watching neo-nazi propaganda.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;41675520]He's way too nitpicky. Like when he was talking about the part where the game says Stalin sent troops to die but gets his panties in a bunch because the English, Americans, and Germans did the same thing but the game didn't mention it. Like what the hell, do you expect the game to just throw that tidbit of info in there?
"Stalin sent in thousands of troops to die but like so did the Americans and English and Nazis just not over here in Russia but I just thought you'd like to know anyway"[/QUOTE]
Did it say that in CoH 1, or any of it's expansions? I sure don't remember that.
"MILLIONS OF SOLDIERS WERE SENT TO DIE"
no
for those it was like
"MILLIONS OF SOLDIERS GAVE THEIR LIVES GOD BLESS THEM" T___T
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;41685630]I gotta say, the game is just as fucking boring gameplay-wise as the previous one.[/QUOTE]
Really? Well, it's just your opinion, but, seriously? How can you find it's gameplay boring? Is it because in the beginning you have to build your shit up?
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
But yea, I think Relic fucked up and thought that Enemy at the Gates was a reliable source to get your information from. The gameplay is superb like the first one though.
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41691095]I was excited for this game because I liked the first but I hadn't heard anything about it until now. Everything they showed looks like they watched Enemy at the Gates (one of the worst films I have ever seen) and just made a game out of it, just like the CoD campaign. I totally agree with him. It looks like I was watching neo-nazi propaganda.
Did it say that in CoH 1, or any of it's expansions? I sure don't remember that.
"MILLIONS OF SOLDIERS WERE SENT TO DIE"
no
for those it was like
"MILLIONS OF SOLDIERS GAVE THEIR LIVES GOD BLESS THEM" T___T[/QUOTE]
That may or may not be because of the order 227 shit. The British, Americans, Canadians and so forth didn't have that and it's infamous because of all the movies and games that included it, so to the untrained eye it seems like Russia was the only one that sent everyone to die in human waves.
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;41691319]Really? Well, it's just your opinion, but, seriously? How can you find it's gameplay boring? Is it because in the beginning you have to build your shit up?
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
But yea, I think Relic fucked up and thought that Enemy at the Gates was a reliable source to get your information from. The gameplay is superb like the first one though.
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
That may or may not be because of the order 227 shit. The British, Americans, Canadians and so forth didn't have that and it's infamous because of all the movies and games that included it, so to the untrained eye it seems like Russia was the only one that sent everyone to die in human waves. Which is not true of course.[/QUOTE]
I feel like if you came into the Omaha beach landings with no prior knowledge, you would be wondering why the hell so many soldiers were ordered to charge pretty much to their deaths
Here's the thing, the American soldiers were trained, well equipped and had competent commanders they could trust to keep their plans efficient since they didn't have millions of men at their disposal only hundreds of thousands.. Russian soldiers were poorly trained, had shit equipment, or in rare cases none at all, and commanders who literally asked them to kill themselves for their country. Of course soviet morale is going to be lower at Stalingrad than at Dday.
I agree 100% to everything else he said.
[QUOTE=Broguts;41693945]Here's the thing, the American soldiers were trained, well equipped and had competent commanders they could trust to keep their plans efficient since they didn't have millions of men at their disposal only hundreds of thousands.. Russian soldiers were poorly trained, had shit equipment, or in rare cases none at all, and commanders who literally asked them to kill themselves for their country. Of course soviet morale is going to be lower at Stalingrad than at Dday.
I agree 100% to everything else he said.[/QUOTE]
Well, according to memoirs of Vasily Zaytsev (yeah, famous Soviet sniper and the main protagonist of Enemy at the Gates), soldiers at Stalingrad were wery well equipped and often had two, ugh, sets of equipment for one soldier. He himself was armed with PPSh 1941 and three magazines, as well as frags and AT grenades, and that's in addition to Mosin Nagant sniper rifle and clips that was also reserved for him. And that guy was no one by that time, he was yet to become iconic. If memory serves me right, Zaytsev wasn't even part of Guards detachment, just regular division.
Later on the supply was cut nearly a dozen of times, but reserves were already quite stuffed with weapons and ammo. Soooo no, equipment totally wasn't the problem. It's the pressure of urban warfare that was getting to everyone, same for Germans. It could've been much much worse if idiot Zhukov wasn't relieved from Stalingrad in time to command on secondary direction.
Moscow defence operations and counter-attacks later on, on another hand, were quite shitty prepared and executed, so people without proper equipment were, in fact, quite common (rare, but more often than command would want). One specially formed detachment was consisting of syberian hunters, with [b]their own weaponry[/b], says it all.
the burning houses thing is fucking ridiculous
help I can't read anything in this thread without it sounding like a thick russian accent
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;41690158]they should have just made a imperial guard game instead
then it'd have the gratuitous amount of sacrifice justified[/QUOTE]
It's like the writing team was told they were working on a new Dawn of War game but everyone else was told to work on CoH.
[QUOTE=koeniginator;41703929]help I can't read anything in this thread without it sounding like a thick russian accent[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, what you're imagining is probably FPSRussia kind of "Яussiаи ассеит".
Game is bullshit.Story of Russia and its story of Ukraine my motherland what kind of nazy jerk did thet game damn, that's not story what has to be in game what americans are heroes russian are the main enemy well i don't love russian NKVD they killed many of my people. Its Nazy shitgame. If you do game do it right not the way they did some kind of ennemy at gate. See movie 4 танкиста и собака, диверсанты,Штрафбат,В июне 41-го. You will se other side of russian story what hase to be in games.
Dude, this thread is almost 3 months old
[QUOTE=Cpt.Funkymonk;41676145]Yeah but you can see that they are only focusing on what the Soviets did, not on what the Nazis did. There was a pretty huge bias against the soviets and how they were portrayed. Especially for a game series that is trying to pride itself in being historically accurate.[/QUOTE]
I don't know man. The game plays on the side of the Soviets so what are they supposed to show?
Just an example: Early on the dude complains about something about soldiers being worth nothing because of army doctrine and his response is something along "well the others did it too".
Well yeah but the game never says otherwise.
[QUOTE=32rabbit;42661274]Game is bullshit.Story of Russia and its story of Ukraine my motherland what kind of nazy jerk did thet game damn, that's not story what has to be in game what americans are heroes russian are the main enemy well i don't love russian NKVD they killed many of my people. Its Nazy shitgame. If you do game do it right not the way they did some kind of ennemy at gate. See movie 4 танкиста и собака, диверсанты,Штрафбат,В июне 41-го. You will se other side of russian story what hase to be in games.[/QUOTE]
I love the mentality on former soviet and former soviet bloc countries, where if Russians aren't portrayed as the unkillable mighty heroes of the war and the stompers of the evil "nazys", it's just a shit nazy gaem/movie.
Russians portrayed as monsters who were raping and creating mass graves while on their way through Germany? Nazy documentary all just nazy jeromy lies
-snip-
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42662316]I love the mentality on former soviet and former soviet bloc countries, where if Russians aren't portrayed as the unkillable mighty heroes of the war and the stompers of the evil "nazys", it's just a shit nazy gaem/movie.
Russians portrayed as monsters who were raping and creating mass graves while on their way through Germany? Nazy documentary all just nazy jeromy lies[/QUOTE]
Yes youre right. but still the can do great game trye story not lies and will have many game fans not haters. Damn stupid morons they are.
[QUOTE=32rabbit;42662372]Yes youre right. but still the can do great game trye story not lies and will have many game fans not haters. Damn stupid morons they are.[/QUOTE]
You gonna need to do a lot of work on your English. I can barely understand what you're saying.
Also it's just a game, don't treat it as history class lesson.
[QUOTE=32rabbit;42662372]Yes youre right. but still the can do great game trye story not lies and will have many game fans not haters. Damn stupid morons they are.[/QUOTE]
As it's been previously stated, it's just a game, not an official history lesson. It's also aimed at Americans whose impression of WWII era soviets basically comes from call of duty games and "Enemy at the Gates".
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