[QUOTE=qwerty000;42664654]вот этот охуительный менталитет. все в говне, все разворовано, распилено, но зато НАКАТИМ ЗА РАСЕЮШКУ/УКРАИНУШКУ МАТУШКУ ПОТОМУ ЧТО Я ТАМ РОДИЛСЯ[/QUOTE]
Ah, the majestic English language
We're expected to respect the fact that this forum's official language is English though...
[QUOTE=qwerty000;42664654]вот этот охуительный менталитет. все в говне, все разворовано, распилено, но зато НАКАТИМ ЗА РАСЕЮШКУ/УКРАИНУШКУ МАТУШКУ ПОТОМУ ЧТО Я ТАМ РОДИЛСЯ
Edit: @whoever just went copypasting our posts in google translate, don't bother lol[/QUOTE]
Дохуя людей вообще-то отождествляют "страну" с родными, друзьями и так далее. Понятно, конечно, что страна тут абсолютно не при чем, но так у людей мозги работают.
[QUOTE=gudman;42664664]We're expected to respect the fact that this forum's official language is English though...[/QUOTE]
Well yeah but it's not like using other languages is strictly prohibited.
[QUOTE=qwerty000;42664677]Well yeah but it's not like using other languages is strictly prohibited.[/QUOTE]
There are non-English chat threads in General Discussion
I'm not bothered by it, but if you keep going you'll end up banned, just trying to give a friendly heads up.
[QUOTE=qwerty000;42664677]Well yeah but it's not like using other languages is strictly prohibited.[/QUOTE]
DaysBefore's right, I've seen people getting banned for it. Those guys banned were Russians.
i dont like how by his wording he tries to justify russian war crimes
"oh russians did bad things BUT other countries did too!!"
hes making russia the scapegoat of the war, but noo, nevermind they were one of the inital aggressors
I have to say he is acting a little bitchy.
And hypocritical.
And nitpicky.
Generally pretty horrible.
[editline]27th October 2013[/editline]
Also yeah depending on the mod you can get banned. Just put a translation of what you said in your post and that'll make it okay I guess.
It's not a written rule though so yeah.
[QUOTE=proch;42665143]
It's not a written rule though so yeah.[/QUOTE]
Speaking of written rules.
Wasn't the general motto of Facepunch ruleset "behave respectfully like you would in real life and don't get banned"?
Fuck, a lot of people think that on FP you can get banned "for anything" :v:
A lot of the rules are unwritten and are up to you to find out and abide by. Most are common sense, but as common sense isn't common it's a rickety system.
Trial and error is the prime way of figuring out how to stay alive, for lack of a better term, around here.
But then again this is a three month old thread about the biased depiction of the Soviet war effort so who fucking cares.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42665302]A lot of the rules are unwritten and are up to you to find out and abide by. Most are common sense, but as common sense isn't common it's a rickety system.
Trial and error is the prime way of figuring out how to stay alive, for lack of a better term, around here.
But then again this is a three month old thread about the biased depiction of the Soviet war effort so who fucking cares.[/QUOTE]
In a video game no less.
I don't know, I haven't been banned much. I think I've been banned like, twice, both times for like two or three days? So it's not super hard.
Can we just agree that both sides did fucked up shit during the war?
The Germans were brainwashed into believing that the Aryan race was supreme and the Slavs were "rats," so they tried to exterminate them.
The Russians did the exact same when the tide of war switched. Every confrontation became an eye for an eye exchange. Germans rape and kill our women? We shall do that to theirs 10 fold.
Both sides are at fault.
Ffs, every country did fucked up shit. Thats what war is.
Relic's game was poorly written, and executed. It's gratuitous and mindless to burn civilians out of their own homes in some fake-simulacrum of a 'scorched earth' doctrine. The character dialogue is poorly written and stereotypically mindless. The timeframe is questionable.
But, the video maker is outraged to the point of idiotic revisionism. Calling the NKVD 'nothing more than police' is like trying to swear the Gestapo were just used to enforce German Constitutional Law. The supposed claim about 7 Million Nagants over 5 Million Infantrymen ignores the logistical nightmare that was supplying the Red Army and there were plenty of instances of Russian units running out of supplies including rifles, particularly in the first year of the Blitz. Don't even get me started at my own incredulity over the allegation that 'hardly anyone was sent to Gulag, why depict it'?
This would be as if an American talking head reviewed a western film, then got outraged that it depicted U.S. Cavalry slaughtering Indians, abusing civilians and being incompetent roughnecks. It's certainly insulting to depict them that way, and it might not be historically true-to-life but trying to talk away the failures of your own country under the pretense of 'it never happened' is lunacy.
I'm done. Please return to chattering in Russian.
Why can't everybody just be like Poland and think they're the scapegoat and ultimate savior of europe and the world?
who gives a shit if i wanted to play an accurate portrayal of world war 2 i wouldn't be playing an arcade rts
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;42665508]Relic's game was poorly written, and executed. It's gratuitous and mindless to burn civilians out of their own homes in some fake-simulacrum of a 'scorched earth' doctrine. The character dialogue is poorly written and stereotypically mindless. The timeframe is questionable.
But, the video maker is outraged to the point of idiotic revisionism. Calling the NKVD 'nothing more than police' is like trying to swear the Gestapo were just used to enforce German Constitutional Law. The supposed claim about 7 Million Nagants over 5 Million Infantrymen ignores the logistical nightmare that was supplying the Red Army and there were plenty of instances of Russian units running out of supplies including rifles, particularly in the first year of the Blitz. Don't even get me started at my own incredulity over the allegation that 'hardly anyone was sent to Gulag, why depict it'?
This would be as if an American talking head reviewed a western film, then got outraged that it depicted U.S. Cavalry slaughtering Indians, abusing civilians and being incompetent roughnecks. It's certainly insulting to depict them that way, and it might not be historically true-to-life but trying to talk away the failures of your own country under the pretense of 'it never happened' is lunacy.
I'm done. Please return to chattering in Russian.[/QUOTE]
Actually the civilians burning in the house thing is a bug. In the speech during the mission the civilians are told to leave their homes and you see them running for their lives. Though I do agree on everything else you said.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42663457]The way you try and sympathize and relate with rapists and mass murderers makes the rest of us uneasy.[/QUOTE]
You heard it here first: The entire Red Army was composed of rapists and mass murderers.
[QUOTE=gudman;42664634]I think I'd be able to understand Ukrainian better than this kind of Russian honestly...[/QUOTE]
Розумієш я на Україномовній частині живу і у нас не ведуть Російської мови, все тут Україзовано, навіть у школах наших давно не зустрічалась сусідська мова.І це зараз для мене дивно шоб Рус писав мені аби я писав Українською.
[QUOTE=32rabbit;42672673]Розумієш я на Україномовній частині живу і у нас не ведуть Російської мови, все тут Україзовано, навіть у школах наших давно не зустрічалась сусідська мова.І це зараз для мене дивно шоб Рус писав мені аби я писав Українською.[/QUOTE]
Когда я в первый раз ездил в Европу, я и английского не знал, и ничего - понимал худо-бедно. С украинским уж разберусь... Я догадался, что ты не по своей воле так херово по-русски пишешь. К тому же, это все не важно, будем продолжать в том же духе и нас наградят [b]бан[/b]анами.
Translation (aka don't ban me):
Well, when I went to Europe for the first time on vacation, I didn't even know English any good, that I managed somehow; Ukrainian is not as far from Russian as, say, Itallian. I understand that you didn't screw Russian language up so hard out of disrespect (he pointed out that Russian is studied a lot more rare in Ukraine than before, everything's "Ukrain-ised", if you will). But all is irrelevant, because if we continue this way, we'll get awarded with [b]ban[/b]anans.
[QUOTE=gudman;42673399]Когда я в первый раз ездил в Европу, я и английского не знал, и ничего - понимал худо-бедно. С украинским уж разберусь... Я догадался, что ты не по своей воле так херово по-русски пишешь. К тому же, это все не важно, будем продолжать в том же духе и нас наградят [b]бан[/b]анами.
Translation (aka don't ban me):
Well, when I went to Europe for the first time on vacation, I didn't even know English any good, that I managed somehow; Ukrainian is not as far from Russian as, say, Itallian. I understand that you didn't screw Russian language up so hard out of disrespect (he pointed out that Russian is studied a lot more rare in Ukraine than before, everything's "Ukrain-ised", if you will). But all is irrelevant, because if we continue this way, we'll get awarded with [b]ban[/b]anans.[/QUOTE]
Звістно не по своїй волі, але нічого я стараюсь навчитись граматиці будь якої мови, по трохи вивчаю японську так як дуже прагну відвідати Токіо. Англійську вчив в школі хотя я її вже розумів до неї, я більше розмовляю чим друкую тому так я не дуже в письмовій, так сказати пишу так як чую но звістно я ше в гуглі перевіряю =).
[QUOTE=Inspector N;41680370]Don't take everything he says as truth, he seems to know about as much truth of the matter as the game developers he's attacking
I can't believe he compared Order 227 and the influence of the NKVD to American and Canadian military law. It's almost as if he WANTS to justify what they did.
Ignoring the fact it looks like he took the figure of all branches of service for the Soviet Union, which would encompass non-combat units, I can only say I'm left lost to his point. Congratulations, you ONLY executed 0.4% of your entire armed forces. Totally acceptable. Shame on him for trying to downplay it.
He claims Russian troops would never have been shot by their own machine guns. In Stalingrad, militia special brigades, largely made up of workers from factories in Northern Stalingrad, were blocked by groups of well-armed Komsomol volunteer and NKVD detachments placed behind them to prevent retreat. The 124th Special brigade had a second line of "Komsomol members armed with machine guns and machine pistols".
A divisional commander in the 64th Rifle Division took to the Roman punishment of decimation, he formed the unfortunate units up and shot every 10th man through the head until "his magazine was empty".
It doesn't end there. Marshall Zhukov implemented Order No. 227 on the western front in 1942, tanks were used to follow the first wave of an attack ready to '"combat cowardice" by opening fire on any soldiers who wavered'.
Other historical facts he tries to expand on are debatable and taken into poor context
Now, I'm not defending the campaign. I haven't played CoH2's campaign and from the few clips in the video it does seem to have flaws and he does have some valid points. I'm more irritated by the video's creator's nitpicking, lackluster comparisons and downright ridiculous accusations of the game developers (Nazis) which end up coming off as lazy, petty, offensive and frankly displaying a poor level of understanding.[/QUOTE]
I have read a lot of serious historical works about the war Eastern Front, and these cover the different orders that Stalin issued during the major battles to some depth. Because of my general interest I also had a (somewhat) decent and lengthy discussion in the comments section of this video to get a proper impression of why so many Russian gamers were mad about this game.
I think the main point was the difference between the two CoH games. The US campaign in the original portrayed them as all American good guys, and even the Wehrmacht campaign was more unbiased and neutral than the Russian campaign in CoH2. The Russians would have liked a campaign like the American one. One that shows them defending their homeland bravely, protecting their families and turning the tide against the single most powerful armed force during that time period. They didn't get that at all.
I played through the CoH2 campaign and enjoyed it quite a bit, but the historical innacuracies annoyed me, mostly because the developers claimed that the game was well researched. The events in the story is in general based on some facts, but they manage to blow it completely out of proportion, portraying some of the Russian officers like comicbook villains, who doesn't show a single sign of emotion after they have ordered Russian civilians to be burned alive or their soldiers left behind, etc.
A lot of horrible things [I]did[/I] happen, Relic just show the player all the extremes constantly, making the Russians look completely over the top evil. There is often a commissar shooting your retreating units, the officers either burn people alive, blow them up, leave them behind, or personally execute prisoners of war in almost every single cutscene. These things [I]did[/I] happen, just not all the time.
[editline]28th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;41690158]they should have just made a imperial guard game instead
then it'd have the gratuitous amount of sacrifice justified[/QUOTE]
This is what the should have done, they could have gone even more over the top and it would have fitted the 40K setting perfectly.
Well shit this thread got really interesting fast.
[QUOTE=Bonde;42674507]I have read a lot of serious historical works about the war Eastern Front, and these cover the different orders that Stalin issued during the major battles to some depth. Because of my general interest I also had a (somewhat) decent and lengthy discussion in the comments section of this video to get a proper impression of why so many Russian gamers were mad about this game.
I think the main point was the difference between the two CoH games. The US campaign in the original portrayed them as all American good guys, and even the Wehrmacht campaign was more unbiased and neutral than the Russian campaign in CoH2. The Russians would have liked a campaign like the American one. One that shows them defending their homeland bravely, protecting their families and turning the tide against the single most powerful armed force during that time period. They didn't get that at all.
I played through the CoH2 campaign and enjoyed it quite a bit, but the historical innacuracies annoyed me, mostly because the developers claimed that the game was well researched. The events in the story is in general based on some facts, but they manage to blow it completely out of proportion, portraying some of the Russian officers like comicbook villains, who doesn't show a single sign of emotion after they have ordered Russian civilians to be burned alive or their soldiers left behind, etc.
A lot of horrible things [I]did[/I] happen, Relic just show the player all the extremes constantly, making the Russians look completely over the top evil. There is often a commissar shooting your retreating units, the officers either burn people alive, blow them up, leave them behind, or personally execute prisoners of war in almost every single cutscene. These things [I]did[/I] happen, just not all the time.
[editline]28th October 2013[/editline]
This is what the should have done, they could have gone even more over the top and it would have fitted the 40K setting perfectly.[/QUOTE]
AFAIK the Wehrmacht campaign in COH1 doesn't show them doing a SINGLE bad thing.
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;42677475]AFAIK the Wehrmacht campaign in COH1 doesn't show them doing a SINGLE bad thing.[/QUOTE]
There were, I believe three instances of german campaign in CoH1 lifetime - all from expansions (jesus christ, some time ago we had expansion packs and addons, instead of DLC, how long ago that was?). Two of them for Panzer Elite, aka "Lehr" - mishmash of diffirent detachments, including parts of SS IIRC. And nope, not a single bad thing.
Just warfare with likeable heroic figures in cut scenes. I loved it, 2nd expansion's Commonwealth campaign was a masterpiece.
[QUOTE=gudman;42677554]There were, I believe three instances of german campaign in CoH1 lifetime - all from expansions (jesus christ, some time ago we had expansion packs and addons, instead of DLC, how long ago that was?). Two of them for Panzer Elite, aka "Lehr" - mishmash of diffirent detachments, including parts of SS IIRC. And nope, not a single bad thing.
Just warfare with likeable heroic figures in cut scenes. I loved it, 2nd expansion's Commonwealth campaign was a masterpiece.[/QUOTE]
Actually one of the 2 TOV German campaigns is a mix of the Panzer-Elite and the Wehrmacht.
[QUOTE=minilandstan;41677824]Why does he keep referring to the Germans as Nazis, rather than the werchmant which were the actual army, consisting of Germans who like everyone else thought their country was right and did it to be patriotic, or perhaps forced into it. The Nazis were the political figures who did the work in the extermination camps, and only occasionally showed their place on the battlefield.
And he's got his panties in a twist because the Russians are shed in a bad light and the Germans were shown to be in fact not demons wearing human skin, but humans who actually had emotions.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to point out that the Wehrmacht regularly took part in atrocities, particularly in Eastern Europe, and a lot of of the time it was pursued eagerly. It wasn't just the SS and the Nazi Party. Eight years of brainwashing and propaganda by the Nazi Party tended to instill something of that effect, but there was also a bias against the Slavic people in general that existed way before the Nazis even existed.
Exceptions did exist, where soldiers and officers were revolted about what they were doing, of course, but it would be a huge mistake to claim that the Wehrmacht fought a "clean" war (which I know you're not trying to say, but that myth seems to be perpetuated a lot).
Comrade, Comrade, Comrade, Comrade, Comrade.
[QUOTE=qwerty000;42664654]вот этот охуительный менталитет. все в говне, все разворовано, распилено, но зато НАКАТИМ ЗА РАСЕЮШКУ/УКРАИНУШКУ МАТУШКУ ПОТОМУ ЧТО Я ТАМ РОДИЛСЯ[/QUOTE]
Your mentality isn't any better, though. Not everything is as bad as you say it is. We have everything we need, and we have it cheap. Everyone has homes, food, electricity, internet, education, whatever, you name it. Not everything is perfect, but it will get better soon enough
I watched the review with subtitles and suddenly "dat ass"
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
