There Are Only 2 Genders | Change My Mind - Louder With Crowder - General

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;52952085] But you do post other things from him even though he makes such reprehensible videos as the one linked. Don't stand for him or with him, Tudd. Whatever he says that you agree with, there are other people saying it without a repertoire of bigotry.[/QUOTE] I can agree with him on some topics and not others. It isn't like I am going to create a list of people I will never listen to just because they aren't 100% perfect in opinion.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52952118]I can agree with him on some topics and not others. It isn't like I am going to create a list of people I will never listen to just because they aren't 100% perfect in opinion.[/QUOTE] Since you posted and thus watched this video do you agree woth crowders views on transgender people?

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52950323]It astounds me how many conservative dumbasses out there don't understand the difference between fucking sex and gender [editline]5th December 2017[/editline] This isn't that complicated[/QUOTE] Yeah it is pretty crazy. This one guy I play CSGO with from Texas is a conservative Christian and he was adamant that sex and gender are the same thing.

Yeesh, who knew conservatives would get so triggered by something they're not used to? That's pretty much all this is, all conservative ideology ever is, gut reactions to new things.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;52952005]I didn't watch the video because fuck Crowder in all honesty. Judging by how much he likes to dress in drag pretty sure that dude's deeper in the closet than Kevin Spacey is in little boys. As a transperson myself I do agree that there are only two genders. You're either male or female, and respectively trans on either side of the spectrum. People who sit there and go, "Oh I'm genderfluid sometimes I like to be called a girl and sometimes I like to be a boy and I get #triggered if you can't read my mind on what I wanna be called today teehee~," just piss me the hell off and delegitimize real, honest to God gender dysphoria.[/QUOTE] That's just a small subset of morons. Some people are genuinely genderfluid and no they won't get triggered if you call them incorrectly. Most of the time genderfluid people don't mind either pronoun. There's still real dysphoria in it and it's hurtful for you to throw those people under the bus and say they aren't "really transgender". Shit like this is why I'm afraid of even attempting to figure out my problems, because I'm afraid of people like you saying I'm "not really dysphoric" just because I experience it differently than the majority. [editline].[/editline] Pascall below has a better way with words. They said it much better.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52952118]I can agree with him on some topics and not others. It isn't like I am going to create a list of people I will never listen to just because they aren't 100% perfect in opinion.[/QUOTE] The fact that you agree with him on this subject is in itself already way past morally reprehensible and disgusting of you.

[QUOTE=Amber902;52952108]What is that value? Can you elaborate? What was the point you think sharing this video had? Do you think crowder has a good grasp on the topic? If so then why?[/QUOTE] I'm hoping it wasn't because he read the whole story about the TA getting chewed out for showing a debate, saw the stupid controversy coming from both sides, and thought "hey maybe I can do that!". Even the whole side of "well looks like you hate free speech then"

I've kind of settled myself into a non-binary category because I don't feel 100% male but I don't feel 100% female either, so it doesn't make sense to me to call myself a cis-woman or a trans-man. So it's kind of a nice place to be right now until I figure it out. Pretty sure like a huge majority of people who are in the same situation aren't going to throttle someone for not using the right pronouns. That's such an overblown problem perpetuated by this really silly "SJW boogeyman" stereotype that's been going around the internet for the last few years. ARE there people who would get all huffy if you made a genuine mistake in pronoun usage? Probably! But chances are, you don't know those people for that very reason! Your social circle is your social circle for a reason. You probably get along with those people and vice-versa. So if one of them decided to use different pronouns, chances are, you're familiar enough with their personality to know that they wouldn't be that demanding about it, especially if they themselves are barely getting used to it. Right now I'm trying to go by they/them or he/him pronouns, but my best friends still use she and that's okay with me because uhhh they've known me for like 7-8 years at this point. Anyway. If you don't "believe" in third genders or non-binary/genderfluid individuals, like okay whatever, just don't make attempts to befriend them because denying such an important facet of themselves just because you don't get it or it makes you uncomfortable isn't fair to them. Or you I guess??? Sever ties for both of your sakes. My two cents on it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52951832]I don't think your defense of freedom of speech is genuine, because it really just seems to be about what you, and your ilk can get away with. You're not worried about protecting people like Colin Kaepernick from the wrath of the literal fucking president trying to silence him, no, you're worried about neo nazis being told they can't be publicly inciting racism.[/QUOTE]

I hate this debate culture that's piling up the internet. Just mindless beating around the bush, talking nonsense, not actually knowing how to format your arguments. Is this even english?

[QUOTE=SILBERDRACHEN;52952434]I hate this debate culture that's piling up the internet. Just mindless beating around the bush, talking nonsense, not actually knowing how to format your arguments. Is this even english?[/QUOTE] If you can't articulate a reasonable counter point, retreat into semantics instead

Honestly, after watching Contrapoints video about degenerates. Seriously, people need to chill out, the numbers of people who are trans/nonbinary/polyamorous/gay/whatthefuckever are so small compared to the normal hetereo/bisexual population that it really doesn't matter and they should be free to do as they please. AT the worst? I might get yelled at once for misgendering, at best I'll have probably never met any to begin with. [editline]6th December 2017[/editline] Can't say the same about the super nutty religious people or far right conservatives who want everyone to be just like them.

Wouldn't transsexual be a more accurate name than transgender since part of the treatment is the changing of one's body to look and act more like that of the other sex? I don't see how something like changing your genitals would help with gender confusion unless you're also saying that sex and gender are inherently linked. Please tell me if I'm totally misunderstanding, because this has always confused me.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952580]Wouldn't transsexual be a more accurate name than transgender since part of the treatment is the changing of one's body to look and act more like that of the other sex? I don't see how something like changing your genitals would help with gender confusion unless you're also saying that sex and gender are inherently linked. Please tell me if I'm totally misunderstanding, because this has always confused me.[/QUOTE] That's not always part of the treatment. It's not necessary at all and many trans people don't go through surgery.

[QUOTE=kariko;52952605]That's not part of the treatment. It's not necessary at all and many trans people don't go through surgery.[/QUOTE] Alright, how about those who do go through with the surgery, or would like to? I'm trying to understand how doing everything one can to change one's born sex fits in with being transgender as opposed to transsexual.

[QUOTE=Extronic;52952609]I am a liberal who supports universal healthcare, LGBT rights and all the other stuff, and I don't understand how there can be more than 2 genders, like it literally does not make sense to me. I understand a person can be the opposite gender that they were born, but I genuinely have trouble comprehending all these new terms that seem invented just so people can tag themselves as unique. Guess I'm just a conservative retard huh[/QUOTE] You're confusing sex and gender. There are two sexes. Gender is what gets everyone confused because its as fuzzy as any attempt to explain Post-Post Irony.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952611]Alright, how about those who do go through with the surgery, or would like to? I'm trying to understand how doing everything one can to change one's born sex fits in with being transgender as opposed to transsexual.[/QUOTE] What purpose would there be to label people who've gone through surgery and people who haven't differently?

[quote=sgman91]Wouldn't transsexual be a more accurate name than transgender since part of the treatment is the changing of one's body to look and act more like that of the other sex? I don't see how something like changing your genitals would help with gender confusion unless you're also saying that sex and gender are inherently linked. Please tell me if I'm totally misunderstanding, because this has always confused me.[/quote] Not everyone who is transgender is trans-sexual - that's why the terms are separate. Not everyone who's disabled (and would like to have their limbs replaced/restored) has had their limbs replaced/restored, if you'd like an analogy. Treatment is expensive - and sometimes life-threatening. Beyond that, the range of discomfort people feel in their bodies due to gender identity not matching their sex is a wide range. Some people feel the need to replace their junk and align their secondary sexual characteristics to feel comfortable in their body. Others merely need to give themselves the permission to 'not act the way people would expect them to according to their sex'. It's after all not entirely about your sex; it's more about how you see yourself versus how your body is - and accordingly how other people see you. You want people to see 'who you are' but the problem is that you have a body that tells them you're 'something else'. Et cetera. This gets further entangled when we get into 'bathroom politics' and all that other ridiculous stuff.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952611]Alright, how about those who do go through with the surgery, or would like to? I'm trying to understand how doing everything one can to change one's born sex fits in with being transgender as opposed to transsexual.[/QUOTE] Because being transgender is a psychological and social concept in addition to a physical thing? Pretty much everyone who transitions to the opposite sex is also seeking to feel at peace with their identity and gain recognition from their peers.

[QUOTE=kariko;52952621]What purpose would there be to label people who've gone through surgery and people who haven't differently?[/QUOTE] For accuracy's sake. If they aren't the same thing, then they shouldn't be labeled the same, especially if you want to detangle the idea of gender and sex in the general populace. It's confusing to have someone say that gender and sex aren't related, and then have them say they are transgender, but want to change their sex.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952639]For accuracy's sake. If they aren't the same thing, then they shouldn't be labeled the same, especially if you want to detangle the idea of gender and sex in the general populace. It's confusing to have someone say that gender and sex aren't related, and then have them say they are transgender, but want to change their sex.[/QUOTE] But it really isn't. Anymore than saying 'cookies and milk are related'. Sometimes they match. Sometimes they don't.

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52952624]Not everyone who is transgender is trans-sexual - that's why the terms are separate. Not everyone who's disabled (and would like to have their limbs replaced/restored) has had their limbs replaced/restored, if you'd like an analogy. Treatment is expensive - and sometimes life-threatening. Beyond that, the range of discomfort people feel in their bodies due to gender identity not matching their sex is a wide range. Some people feel the need to replace their junk and align their secondary sexual characteristics to feel comfortable in their body. Others merely need to give themselves the permission to 'not act the way people would expect them to according to their sex'. It's after all not entirely about your sex; it's more about how you see yourself versus how your body is - and accordingly how other people see you. You want people to see 'who you are' but the problem is that you have a body that tells them you're 'something else'. Et cetera. This gets further entangled when we get into 'bathroom politics' and all that other ridiculous stuff.[/QUOTE] Let's say gender reassignment surgery was free and had zero risk; the person would be totally transformed from one sex to the other. Would it then be applicable to all, or at least the large majority, of transgender people? I ask because I assume that all disabled people would love to have their limbs restored if they were able, and I would question the mental state of someone who preferred to stay disabled. I actually don't know the answer. Thank you for your clarification.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952646]Let's say gender reassignment surgery was free and had zero risk; the person would be totally transformed from one sex to the other. Would it then be applicable to all transgender people? I actually don't know the answer. Thank you for your clarification.[/QUOTE] I don't think so. Some trans people don't want to completely be the other sex. As Umbra said, it's a large range of discomfort.

[QUOTE=kariko;52952655]I don't think so. Some trans people don't want to completely be the other sex. As Umbra said, it's a large range of discomfort.[/QUOTE] So what exactly is the discomfort with if not their body?

Changing the sex is a common byproduct of wanting to change gender identity but the two concepts are by no means required for the process to be considered a transition. Gender and sex are [I]not[/I] the same thing, but they are very often [I]related[/I] concepts for many people. For me, they aren't related. Whether or not I decide to fully change my gender to male, the chances of me having the surgery to match is close to absolute zero. For someone else, they are related. It just depends. So using the terms transgender/transsexual interchangeable doesn't make sense. The emphasis on the biological component can sometimes take away from the importance of the transition of gender identity. Which is why most people heavily prefer the term "transgender". That's not to say that it isn't confusing sometimes, but simply taking some time to ask someone about it can usually clear up the confusion. Language isn't always straight-forward and we should never expect it to be perfectly comprehensible at all times. Some things require context and knowledge to understand. And that's probably how it will be until trans concepts and individuals are more widely accepted in the mainstream.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952646]Let's say gender reassignment surgery was free and had zero risk; the person would be totally transformed from one sex to the other. Would it then be applicable to all transgender people? I ask because I assume that all disabled people would love to have their limbs restored if they were able. I actually don't know the answer. Thank you for your clarification.[/QUOTE] Not all. Again, there's a range here - some people feel a mild discomfort in their body and to others it's an alien body that feels very wrong to them. Some are uncomfortable with how others see them (which can be resolved through surgery/hormones) - some are uncomfortable with how they see themselves (which can be resolved through allowing themselves to be what they feel they are, social acceptance, et cetera). It's a complex problem mired in all manner of thing. But, sure, if there was a magic wand that everybody had free access to then surely it would be used. However, to add some smoke to your fire: Not everyone wants to be 'one or the other sex' - some people don't feel a strong attachment to either and feel 'inbetween' and so forth. To extend the analogy from earlier about limb replacement: Some people want their arm back. Other people feel like they should have four arms. Simply offering to 'replace all limbs for free' doesn't really create a situation that's applicable to everyone who's considering limb replacement.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952659]So what exactly is the discomfort with if not their body?[/QUOTE] It's not really a discomfort for everyone. Sometimes it's just preference. Though the former is probably a great majority of the trans population.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952659]So what exactly is the discomfort with if not their body?[/QUOTE] I didn't say it's not their body. I said they don't want to [B]completely[/B] be the other gender. Some trans people want it fully, to where they change their body with surgery. Others just want the secondary stuff, like a more feminine body or face, but are still fine with the more private areas. These aren't the only two things but just examples of how different it can be. There's a lot of ways that dysphoria comes out and a lot of ways it can be relieved. It's complicated and confusing at times, even for the trans person experiencing it.

[QUOTE=Pascall;52952664]Changing the sex is a common byproduct of wanting to change gender identity but the two concepts are by no means required for the process to be considered a transition. Gender and sex are [I]not[/I] the same thing, but they are very often [I]related[/I] concepts for many people. For me, they aren't related. Whether or not I decide to fully change my gender to male, the chances of me having the surgery to match is close to absolute zero. For someone else, they are related. It just depends. So using the terms transgender/transsexual interchangeable doesn't make sense. The emphasis on the biological component can sometimes take away from the importance of the transition of gender identity. Which is why most people heavily prefer the term "transgender". That's not to say that it isn't confusing sometimes, but simply taking some time to ask someone about it can usually clear up the confusion. Language isn't always straight-forward and we should never expect it to be perfectly comprehensible at all times. Some things require context and knowledge to understand. And that's probably how it will be until trans concepts and individuals are more widely accepted in the mainstream.[/QUOTE] I guess the hard part is that people push really hard for a distinction between sex and gender. Anyone who confuses the two is jumped on, but it seems like, for a lot of transgender people, they are very related concepts. The two can't be separated out nearly so easily. Transitioning one's sex is often a necessary part for a total transition of one's gender to feel complete. Are there any cases where a person has dysphoria with their born sex, but agrees with their born gender. So, for example, let's say I was born with the male sex, but felt that I should have been a female, while also feeling that I am a man by gender. [editline]6th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=kariko;52952677]I didn't say it's not their body. I said they don't want to [B]completely[/B] be the other gender. Some trans people want it fully, to where they change their body with surgery. Others just want the secondary stuff, like a more feminine body or face, but are still fine with the more private areas. These aren't the only two things but just examples of how different it can be. There's a lot of ways that dysphoria comes out and a lot of ways it can be relieved. It's complicated and confusing at times, even for the trans person experiencing it.[/QUOTE] What's the difference between a feminine man and a transgender man who only feels that they ought to be more feminine, but not that they want to transition to being a female sexually? Please don't take any of this as an attack. I want to understand what it means to be transgender.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52952646] I ask because I assume that all disabled people would love to have their limbs restored if they were able. [/QUOTE] There's some pretty big pushback against cochlear implants by the deaf community because it is an affront to deaf culture. But more on point, sex reassignment isn't always the solution in these cases, not all transgender want to transition. And even in your case where there are no side effects and the procedure was perfect, there would still be a transitioning period. Because there's no way you're going to change a person's sex without some major prep work ahead of time to get the patient ready to live as the other sex. It would be extremely irresponsible to do otherwise.