Toronto cops shoots guy 9 times and tazes the corpse(?)
121 replies, posted
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645122]He only had a 3" knife. If a dozen cops can't subdue somebody that has been shot 9 times without tasing him, then they need to go fuck themselves.
[editline]29th July 2013[/editline]
and did they really need to shoot him that many times?
[editline]29th July 2013[/editline]
Then maybe they shouldn't have become police officers. Surely they could have got a couple riot shields out and kettled him, or is that response reserved for the law abiding folks (G20, student protests, etc).[/QUOTE]
Why is it someone like you always crawls out of the woodwork thinking you know how to do Law Enforcement better than those doing the job?
I'd like to see your experience, your training, and your education that makes you think ANYTHING like that was possible.
This idiot had a deadly weapon. 3 inch blade or not. It's still a knife. It still can kill. An officer would put themselves in danger trying to get close enough to shoot the taser. What if he misses? What if it does not work? Then what? The officer is exposed.
Why waste time getting riot shields. Seriously? Why even bother getting close? That's dangerous. That results in deaths. Officers do not just carry riot shields in their patrol vehicles.
Deadly weapons are met with deadly force. He was told numerous times to DROP the knife while many officers pointed firearms at him. His response? "You're a fucking pussy." He was a moron. He brought this upon himself.
[editline]30th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645222]No on else was on the bus therefore no ones life is in danger but his own. He did not try to exit the bus (aka threaten the officers) so it seems his own live was the only thing in danger which 9 or so shots (However many they fired into the car) is not going to solve.[/QUOTE]
The lives of the officers were in danger. As well as any bystander if he had gotten off the bus and made a break for it. Get real.
[editline]30th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645222]No on else was on the bus therefore no ones life is in danger but his own. He did not try to exit the bus (aka threaten the officers) so it seems his own live was the only thing in danger which 9 or so shots (However many they fired into the car) is not going to solve.[/QUOTE]
The lives of the officers were in danger. As well as any bystander if he had gotten off the bus and made a break for it. Get real.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645222]No on else was on the bus therefore no ones life is in danger but his own. He did not try to exit the bus (aka threaten the officers) so it seems his own live was the only thing in danger which 9 or so shots (However many they fired into the car) is not going to solve.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, you're right, he was a perfectly fine law abiding citizen who just happened to be brandishing a knife on public transport, calling police officers pussies. It's safe to assume that had they let him just go about his business on said transport nothing bad would've happened because I don't know about you, but I always trust knife wielding aggressors.
Why did they shoot with a gun? they could have used the taser first to disable him.
[QUOTE=Linkage;41645262]Sorry, you're right, he was a perfectly fine law abiding citizen who just happened to be brandishing a knife on public transport, calling police officers pussies. It's safe to assume that had they let him just go about his business on said transport nothing bad would've happened because I don't know about you, but I always trust knife wielding aggressors.[/QUOTE]
What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20? They did not try less lethal solutions and definitely didn't try to de-escalate the situation.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645222]No on else was on the bus therefore no ones life is in danger but his own. He did not try to exit the bus (aka threaten the officers) so it seems his own live was the only thing in danger which 9 or so shots (However many they fired into the car) is not going to solve.[/QUOTE]
Apparently they weren't sure no one's life was in danger. But really, the cops are not at fault here. Brandishing a weapon and not dropping it after several warnings [i]with guns pointed at you[/i] is a clearly stupid move.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645277]What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20?[/QUOTE]
Seems like you have a hard on for G20. Did you happen to take a rubber bullet to the head that magically made you an expert on law enforcement response to those armed with knives?
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645277]What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20? They did not try less lethal solutions and definitely didn't try to de-escalate the situation.[/QUOTE]
Yes, let's use rubber bullets and tear-gas against the guy who could at any moment lunge at you with a knife.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645277]What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20?[/QUOTE]
I don't know if you've ever been tear gassed or shot with a rubber bullet, but as far as the gas goes, imagine when you see people smoke out animal burrows whilst hunting or bees nests, the animal or insect goes running flailing in any direction it can right? That's not what you want a knife wielding suspect to be doing. Tear gas doesn't really fuck you up like you seem to think it does.
Rubber bullets do if they're the baton rounds you fire out of an M79, they fuck your day up.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645222]No on else was on the bus therefore no ones life is in danger but his own. He did not try to exit the bus (aka threaten the officers) so it seems his own live was the only thing in danger which 9 or so shots (However many they fired into the car) is not going to solve.[/QUOTE]
And the cops were supposed to know all this hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhow?
Cops aren't magical mind-reading beings that can instantly know who is in trouble, and if they should use lethal force or not.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645277]What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20? They did not try less lethal solutions and definitely didn't try to de-escalate the situation.[/QUOTE]
I don't think they are standard issue, probably only brought out when they need to crowd control.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645277]What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20?[/QUOTE]
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize cops carried around giant knapsacks full of tear-gas, riot shields, gas masks, rubber bullets, taser shotguns, those paintball guns they used in SWAT 4, money, keys, comb, wallet, lighter, hanky, pen cigarettes, contraceptives, Vaseline, whips, chains, whistles, dildos, and a book
[QUOTE=t h e;41645284]Apparently they weren't sure no one's life was in danger. But really, the cops are not at fault here. Brandishing a weapon and not dropping it after several warnings [i]with guns pointed at you[/i] is a clearly stupid move.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is saying it's not a stupid move. It's just that these cops aren't getting paid $100,000 a year to execute people on the streets. If he has committed a crime then he must be subdued and tried in court.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645321]Nobody is saying it's not a stupid move. It's just that these cops aren't getting paid $100,000 a year to execute people on the streets. If he has committed a crime then he must be subdued and tried in court.[/QUOTE]
You do not just try and subdue someone with a weapon. He is in a confined space with a knife, if a cop tried to go in and subdue him the cop could easily be injured or killed. They told him to drop the knife numerous times, he should have dropped it.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645277]What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20? They did not try less lethal solutions and definitely didn't try to de-escalate the situation.[/QUOTE]
If the police are unsure there's still people inside, I highly doubt they would use tear gas. And rubber bullets? They don't always work. If they tried rubber bullets and failed, the guy can just go inside and hurt someone.
Of course, this is assuming every officer is equipped with this equipment. I don't know if officers carry tear-gas and rubber bullets around all the time but I highly doubt it.
That title made me think of a totally different scenario that what actually happened
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41645315]And the cops were supposed to know all this hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhow?
Cops aren't magical mind-reading beings that can instantly know who is in trouble, and if they should use lethal force or not.[/QUOTE]
The cops knew it was empty because the passengers who left the bus told them so.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645321]Nobody is saying it's not a stupid move. It's just that these cops aren't getting paid $100,000 a year to execute people on the streets. If he has committed a crime then he must be subdued and tried in court.[/QUOTE]
You're right, these cops aren't getting paid $100,000 a year to execute people on the streets. They're getting paid to remove threats from the streets. You act like subduing a criminal with a weapon is incredibly easy, when there's really no way to tell if it is or not if you're not in the situation. Everything has a better solution in retrospect, but that doesn't count for much. [I]He must be subdued and tried in court[/I] is probably easier said than done.
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645277]What happened to tear-gas or rubber bullets... like at the G20? They did not try less lethal solutions and definitely didn't try to de-escalate the situation.[/QUOTE]
If you shoot somebody with a gun in center mass, they're fucking dead or really hurt. If you shoot somebody with a taser, they may be able resist it. You can't resist a goddamn bullet in your heart, but you sure as shit can resist a taser because chances are those little prongs will get all wonky entering your clothes or something, or you may be manly as fuck and be able to resist all that electricity fucking with your body. Also dumb as fuck to lug around tear gas and shit only to use it on a single person.
Also it's good thing to realize that all of this shit seems so simple looking back, but there's no way a cop who is stressing the fuck out in the present pointing his gun at a guy, who is only a few feet away that is REFUSING to put down his WEAPON, would have thought "Hey! Some libertarians on the internet might yell at me, so I should use my magic time machine to see how this even t will unfold in the future, and alter the past accordingly!"
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645337]The cops knew it was empty because the passengers who left the bus told them so.[/QUOTE]
Where did this info come from? Do you have a source you care to share? I'm not doubting you, just some facts would be nice to get.
Adding onto this.
The thing about less-than-lethal equipment is that... it's less than lethal. That means that after shooting somebody with a rubber bullet or a taser or something, they still MIGHT be able to lunge forward and stab the shit out of somebody. Sure, sure, the odds are in the cops' favor if the assailant is shot with a rubber bullet or tased, but is it REALLY worth it to take that risk? Quick burst to the center mass from your Glock, he's done. A single-shot taser that takes ages to reload that MIGHT not work, probably not.
Compare THIS
[img]http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg[/img]
to THIS
[img]http://www.legaljuice.com/taser%20detailed%20diagram%20picture%20stun%20gun.jpg[/img]
Which could somebody resist?
[QUOTE=t h e;41645347]You're right, these cops aren't getting paid $100,000 a year to execute people on the streets. They're getting paid to remove threats from the streets. You act like subduing a criminal with a weapon is incredibly easy, when there's really no way to tell if it is or not if you're not in the situation. Everything has a better solution in retrospect, but that doesn't count for much.[/QUOTE]
All police officers are issued Tasers and those long range pepper sprays and my only problem is that they never tried using any of them. They could have tried those first and if those failed, then sure, use him as target practice but that never happened. Also looked it up and only some supervisors are issued rubber bullets, i'm sure they asked for them, they could have gotten one just in time as well.
To chime in on this... and I'm not going to get into it any more than this:
Not all cops are issued tasers and mace. These items cost $ and are considered luxury items for departments. Hell, some departments cant even afford vests for their officers to wear while working.
As for the video: Match deadly force with deadly force. You're not going to mace or taser someone with a knife
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645122]
Then maybe they shouldn't have become police officers. Surely they could have got a couple riot shields out and kettled him, or is that response reserved for the law abiding folks (G20, student protests, etc).[/QUOTE]
When people report you to the police because they think you're a threat and the police come in with guns drawn and you're told to drop a deadly weapon, you fucking drop it or they drop you. Simple as that.
[QUOTE=areolop;41645411]To chime in on this... and I'm not going to get into it any more than this:
Not all cops are issued tasers and mace. These items cost $ and are considered luxury items for departments. Hell, some departments cant even afford vests for their officers to wear while working.
As for the video: Match deadly force with deadly force. You're not going to mace or taser someone with a knife[/QUOTE]
All law enforcement officers in Canada are issued:
- bulletproof vests
- semi-automatic handguns in the .40 S&W calibre cartridge (most common is the S&W Model 5946 with hollow-point 9mm)
- Tasers
- Pepper Sprays
- expandable baton
- handcuffs
- flashlight
- portable radio
- notebook
- disposable gloves and Kevlar gloves
Also:
A police cruiser might carry a carbine rifle; or a [B]shotgun capable of firing a variety of shotgun shells, including the less-lethal flexible baton round and rubber bullets.[/B]
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645467]
A police cruiser might carry a carbine rifle; or a [B]shotgun capable of firing a variety of shotgun shells, including the less-lethal flexible baton round and rubber bullets.[/B][/QUOTE]
Emphasis on
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645467]
[b]might[/b] [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Thlis;41645476]Emphasis on might[/QUOTE]
They had enough time to radio in half of toronto's police force. Surely, they could have asked for somebody that has one as well.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41644150]Hey, just let me hold my fucking knife up and ignore the law enforcement guys holding guns at me yelling "DROP THE KNIFE" 20+ times!
What the fuck was he thinking?[/QUOTE]
maybe he was in shock and just froze/walked without thinking
[QUOTE=aydin690;41645551]They had enough time to radio in half of toronto's police force. Surely, they could have asked for somebody that has one as well.[/QUOTE]
The problem with this is that you do not respond to lethal force with non-lethal force, and there is nothing non-lethal about a knife.
Everyone I know is going crazy about it because it happened like 3 blocks away from me.
Pretty bad police work to be honest, but he should have dropped everything and complied.
[QUOTE=Apache249;41645607]The problem with this is that you do not respond to lethal force with non-lethal force, and there is nothing non-lethal about a knife.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure it's a lot less lethal than a gun though. I'd take a stab over a gun shot any day of the week.
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