the fallousy of total gun ownership is that even if you armed everyone including the 9 year olds, how many of them will actually take to arms and stand with you when "the revolution" occurs, i mention the ficticious and never going to happen "revolution" because every single uber right wing gun nut seems to agree the government is plotting to take all our guns, enslave us, and then something else after that.
theres too many things wrong with this assumption to debunk it so i'll just leave this little tidbit
how would the government get its guns without private citizens working at private companies designing and manufacturing equipment for the government?
This is kind of a shitty video. I don't see how any non-shitstorm generating conversation can be held about it.
I don't understand why "I like shooting guns" is even an argument against gun-control.
Look at china japan, or most of western europe, you can shoot guns ... at a gun-range.
You just can't take them home (easily).
And if you do competitive shooting, or hunting, they have solutions for that.
[QUOTE=Cold;45926599]I don't understand why "I like shooting guns" is even an argument against gun-control.
Look at china japan, or most of western europe, you can shoot guns ... at a gun-range.
You just can't take them home (easily).
And if you do competitive shooting, or hunting, they have solutions for that.[/QUOTE]
im guessing its an ownership thing. you can rent a video game (do people still do this?) or go to arcades but more people buy them just because they have full control over them.
this guy should get into voice acting
[QUOTE=Jimmyjohn;45926697]im guessing its an ownership thing. you can rent a video game (do people still do this?) or go to arcades but more people buy them just because they have full control over them.[/QUOTE]
My dad used to let me rent 3 games for £5 for a week from Blockbuster for when I came and stayed round his, it was more expensive than buying the games after the 2nd week but ahhhhhhhhhh nostalgia. On topic I swear.
My on topic idea: just thought I'd say that I'm english and I don't think I've ever seen a gun anywhere other than a different country or an airport. No one here is shooting each other in order to stop shooting each other and no one here is pro gun.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;45921942]Russia is a great example of this
china too[/QUOTE]
TBH comparing the leading country of the free world to backwater assholes like those isn't a very good idea from your standpoint.
I think the idea is that CIVILIZED countries should have strict gun control.
But if you wanna be Russia then go ahead.
I'm all for better gun control in the US but banning personal ownership is a bad idea, not because it isn't ideal, but because it isn't realistic. All of these "assault weapon" laws do nothing to help either.
[QUOTE=Jimmyjohn;45926697]im guessing its an ownership thing. you can rent a video game (do people still do this?) or go to arcades but more people buy them just because they have full control over them.[/QUOTE]
Video games usually arent used in school shootings unless we believe the media.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45926416]Gun control isn't a gun ban. Even then, the[B] Swiss have very limited gun control and have less gun violence than most countries[/B] so if you want bring them up.
However, using the exception isn't generally a good idea. The Swiss have a good [B]government that takes care of its people as well as a wealthy and well educated population that doesn't need to turn to crime.[/B][/QUOTE]
Looks like you know the source of the problem but for some reason you want to go after the symptoms anyway.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45921933]and less gun crime/murders.[/QUOTE]
You're right.
They stab instead.
[QUOTE=gk99;45927076]You're right.
They stab instead.[/QUOTE]
easier to outrun a guy with a knife than a speeding bullet.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45921933]
This guy thinks that private citizens should be allowed to keep nuclear weapons in their homes.[/QUOTE]
You what
[QUOTE=Cold;45926599]I don't understand why "I like shooting guns" is even an argument against gun-control.
Look at china japan, or most of western europe, you can shoot guns ... at a gun-range.
You just can't take them home (easily).
And if you do competitive shooting, or hunting, they have solutions for that.[/QUOTE]
I like to shoot guns casually, and I like being able shoot them when I like, on my private/public national forest land. I wouldn't exactly be able to do that if I have to go some where that might be closed or might refuse to hand over my gun for whatever reason. I also like to shoot at things that [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvixDxkhUaE"]react[/URL] and not all ranges allow for that sort of thing, and indoor ranges are lame because loud
The problem with discussing gun control with most Americans (and I'll include myself here too) is that to lots of us, "control" is a weak euphemism for a total ban, and is usually pushed by extreme hypocrites. Take Feinstein for example, she pushed two of her "assault weapon" bans that banned rifles based on purely cosmetic features and did almost nothing to touch handguns, which are far more widespread in crime than rifles. It's also worth noting that while she argues against ownership and concealed carry that she herself has a CC permit which doesn't make her look good.
Actual control, and not a complete ban, isn't something I think has ever really been seriously looked at. Anti-gunners rabidly push asinine and arbitrary bans after a tragedy, pro-gunners defend their stance, nobody gets anywhere, the issue dies down. Rinse and repeat. Normally I'd say "tighten up the NICS check," but as of right now very few individuals are actually prosecuted through it. I don't have the sources on-hand, but out of the many thousands denied only something like forty cases arose from that. We can't add more rules onto a system that isn't being followed the way it's supposed to, so I'd say the first thing that needs to happen is we need to get our shit together and actually do what we say we're already doing.
Both sides of the debate are polar opposites and nobody looks for even the possibility of a middle ground, and when the alternative is a total ban of course gun owners are gonna be up in arms, no pun intended. I firmly believe there's a way to satisfy both sides but as long as it's only the radicals talking I don't see that happening in the near future.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;45921942]Russia is a great example of this
china too[/QUOTE]
What about Germany? Your examples are stupid.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45927129]easier to outrun a guy with a knife than a speeding bullet.[/QUOTE]
Sure, assuming he's not a good runner.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;45926843]TBH comparing the leading country of the free world to backwater assholes like those isn't a very good idea from your standpoint.
I think the idea is that CIVILIZED countries should have strict gun control.
But if you wanna be Russia then go ahead.[/QUOTE]
My point was that legislating further gun control isn't the best way to reduce crime and murder. Finland and switzerland have a large amount of guns per capita, but both have very low homocide rates. What both of those countries have in common is that they are both pretty wealthy and have well educated citizens. While many parts of the US are very poor with shit education.
Never said anyone has to be Russia.
[QUOTE=beanhead;45927150]I like to shoot guns casually, and I like being able shoot them when I like, on my private/public national forest land. I wouldn't exactly be able to do that if I have to go some where that might be closed or might refuse to hand over my gun for whatever reason. I also like to shoot at things that [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvixDxkhUaE"]react[/URL] and not all ranges allow for that sort of thing, and indoor ranges are lame because loud[/QUOTE]
I am not saying there won't be a compromise at all.
[editline]8th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;45927659]My point was that legislating further gun control isn't the best way to reduce crime and murder. Finland and switzerland have a large amount of guns per capita, but both have very low homocide rates. What both of those countries have in common is that they are both pretty wealthy and have well educated citizens. While many parts of the US are very poor with shit education.
Never said anyone has to be Russia.[/QUOTE]
Don't bring up switcherland in gun debates, while everbody conscripted has a gun this is purely for military reaction purposes.
Its illegal to own ammo, and you can only shoot your gun at a gun-range and you can't take ammo off the property.
good gun control = background checks, mental checks, etc.
Bad gun control = banning types of guns, banning attachements/ammo mags/etc., banning guns at all
i dont mind taking a psyche test and waiting a few days for a gun, just don't take them away or make them terrible.
[QUOTE=gk99;45927529]Sure, assuming he's not a good runner.[/QUOTE]
yeah all the muggers here can run faster than a bullet whenever they want. must be something in the buckfast
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45927129]easier to outrun a guy with a knife than a speeding bullet.[/QUOTE]
Millions of people being really mad about the government taking their property, creating the biggest black market for guns on the planet and spending millions on "war on guns" (because war on drugs worked great), getting rid of an entire industry just to make the ~9000 homicides/year a[U] bit harder to commit[/U]. That's all you gonna do. Make it harder a bit. And it's not like you're going to guarantee that there won't be any psychos getting their hands on guns so you're not even affecting all the ~9000 homicides with firearms / year. The effort you are advocating is humongous, and the effect is not that great at all.
I'd somehow understand this if homicide with firearm was the leading cause of death in the US but it's not even in the first 10.
[quote=cdc for 2011]
Heart disease: 596,577
Cancer: 576,691
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
Diabetes: 73,831
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 39,518 [/quote]
I know the media are acting like people are running with guns around the streets and killing people left and right in the US but it's simply not true.
[QUOTE=-Iker-;45922582]You still have to keep in mind how big America is. Its 6 times France/Germany and those are the biggest european countries, so its pretty obvious theres gonna be more murders. If someone wants to kill someone, they will find a way, be a gun or be a knife. That said, I still prefer guns to be banned here[/QUOTE]
Ive never really liked this argument. It's a lot easier to kill someone/large volumes of people with a firearm than it is with a knife. Knives are close range, typically less lethal, and more difficult to employ lethally. A good amount of firearms are engineered to be efficient and easy to use in the means of taking lives because they're typically engineered for combat.
[QUOTE=SpasticPinoy;45925246]
"I don't think it's healthy people fetishize Tobin as he's just a citizen of prisoner island."
See?[/QUOTE]
What?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45927902][B]Millions of people being really mad about the government taking their property, creating the biggest black market for guns on the planet and spending millions on "war on guns" (because war on drugs worked great), getting rid of an entire industry just to make the ~9000 homicides/year a[U] bit harder to commit[/U]. That's all you gonna do. Make it harder a bit. And it's not like you're going to guarantee that there won't be any psychos getting their hands on guns so you're not even affecting all the ~9000 homicides with firearms / year. The effort you are advocating is humongous, and the effect is not that great at all.[/B]
I'd somehow understand this if homicide with firearm was the leading cause of death in the US but it's not even in the first 10.
[I]I know the media are acting like people are running with guns around the streets and killing people left and right in the US but it's simply not true.[/I][/QUOTE]
[B]Citation needed.[/B]
[I]Wow, homicide with a firearm isn't even in the top ten - amazing!!![/I]
You'd "somewhat understand this if homicide was the leading cause of death in the US" - what the fuck. If firearm related homicides were the leading cause of death in the US, you would have a murder rate of [I]190.66[/I]. Right now the US has a murder rate of 4.7, for the record. It sure would take a lot for you to (somewhat) understand this.
For the record, I'm not saying guns should be banned in the US, but you guys are just hilarious. Comparing murder rates to overall death rates is just a joke unless you're Honduras or something like that.
[QUOTE=Ldesu;45922620]It's working pretty well in Norway[/QUOTE]
Sure does! Heck, if only we had a little more gun control, Utøya wouldn't have happened!
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;45942218][B]Citation needed.[/B][/QUOTE]
On what that the government would be taking your property if you have a gun and they are banned now? On the fact that there's a giant market for illegal guns in the US? On the fact that it would cost millions of dollars to enforce a gun ban? On the fact that the entire business of selling firearms to private citizens would be illegal? Or on the fact that you'd at best make the ~9000 homicides/year harder and not impossible?
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;45942218][I]Wow, homicide with a firearm isn't even in the top ten - amazing!!![/I]
You'd "somewhat understand this if homicide was the leading cause of death in the US" - what the fuck. If firearm related homicides were the leading cause of death in the US, you would have a murder rate of [I]190.66[/I]. Right now the US has a murder rate of 4.7, for the record. It sure would take a lot for you to (somewhat) understand this.
For the record, I'm not saying guns should be banned in the US, but you guys are just hilarious. Comparing murder rates to overall death rates is just a joke unless you're Honduras or something like that.[/QUOTE]
Comparison of gun related deaths with other causes of death is not an argument for having no gun control.
It's an argument against the idea that americans are running around with guns killing people.
[QUOTE=The Vman;45923429]I think how free a country is depends on an awful lot more than just how many guns they have.[/QUOTE]
You can have an armed population and still have gun control.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;45923688]Ironic that you can't cite your own bullshit just like you did your feminism arguments. What, when you're confronted are you gonna run away like you always did? You're a shill and all you try to do is start long arguments.[/QUOTE]
That wasn't exactly an argument. I was just pointing out a nice trend.
[url]http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php[/url]
I'm also talking about gun control. Not the number of guns. Strange how these countries with [B]gun control[/B] aren't autocracies.
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