• System Shock Early Pre-Alpha Trailer (Nightdive Studios)
    47 replies, posted
man those pipe-swinging animations are still fucked up looking. yeah lets just make wide one handed left sided swings.
[QUOTE=Hogie bear;51898971]Aw man they're doing that 'pre-alpha' industry bullshit I though we got past that. If your game has textures, lighting and gameplay, it aint 'pre' alpha.[/QUOTE] At first, I was going to refute this point. But then I stopped and thought about it a bit, and honestly, I think it's correct. [b]Alpha[/b] generally refers to the stage of game development where mechanics are being developed, and essential assets introduced. Taking a game like Doom 2016 as an example, and alpha state of that game would be making U-shaped corridors (just walls and floors, maybe some particularly iconic monuments) tracing out all the paths the player can take in the game-world, adding systems like the grab-ledge-climb and glory-kill systems with placeholder animations, have the basic mechanics of how each weapon works with placeholder models, etc, etc. Basically just sketching out, mechanically, how the game would work. [b]Beta[/b] generally refers to the stage when all the systems are in place, and are instead being balanced, tuned, and fleshed out. Those simple U-corridors get some details added to them, the placeholder animations get finalized, the weapon models get fleshed out. The ledge-climbing and glory-kills get some camera animations. Everything gets fleshed out and looks nice, but for the most part, no entirely new systems are introduced - a vast majority of all the systems that the final game will have are already in place by the time beta begins. So with those two stages in mind, this game would squarely be in the alpha stage - they are working on tracing out the basic outline of mechanics and systems, using (what I hope to be) temporary assets to fill things out. Furthermore, for something to be "pre-alpha" means that it has to be before that stage of implementing system traces. The only way I can really think of "pre-alpha" would be if the game isn't even [b]in[/b] active development, but is still in the purely theoretical planning stage - the design documents are still being written and revised. So, really, I don't think the thoughts in this post deserve the Dumb ratings. The way the message was delivered, maybe, but I don't think the thought itself is Dumb. I actually think that it's pretty accurate. If anyone feels different, please feel free to correct me.
It definitely looks very different compared to the old alpha which looked a lot like SS1. I'm definitely open to some of their slight visual changes as far as the environment goes.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;51900704]At first, I was going to refute this point. But then I stopped and thought about it a bit, and honestly, I think it's correct. [b]Alpha[/b] generally refers to the stage of game development where mechanics are being developed, and essential assets introduced. Taking a game like Doom 2016 as an example, and alpha state of that game would be making U-shaped corridors (just walls and floors, maybe some particularly iconic monuments) tracing out all the paths the player can take in the game-world, adding systems like the grab-ledge-climb and glory-kill systems with placeholder animations, have the basic mechanics of how each weapon works with placeholder models, etc, etc. Basically just sketching out, mechanically, how the game would work. [b]Beta[/b] generally refers to the stage when all the systems are in place, and are instead being balanced, tuned, and fleshed out. Those simple U-corridors get some details added to them, the placeholder animations get finalized, the weapon models get fleshed out. The ledge-climbing and glory-kills get some camera animations. Everything gets fleshed out and looks nice, but for the most part, no entirely new systems are introduced - a vast majority of all the systems that the final game will have are already in place by the time beta begins. So with those two stages in mind, this game would squarely be in the alpha stage - they are working on tracing out the basic outline of mechanics and systems, using (what I hope to be) temporary assets to fill things out. Furthermore, for something to be "pre-alpha" means that it has to be before that stage of implementing system traces. The only way I can really think of "pre-alpha" would be if the game isn't even [b]in[/b] active development, but is still in the purely theoretical planning stage - the design documents are still being written and revised. So, really, I don't think the thoughts in this post deserve the Dumb ratings. The way the message was delivered, maybe, but I don't think the thought itself is Dumb. I actually think that it's pretty accurate. If anyone feels different, please feel free to correct me.[/QUOTE] I think the proper term for this one is "vertical slice". The game as a whole is still in the pre-alpha stage, they just decided to polish up this one part to make it look presentable their target audience.
I still find it a little odd that they haven't made melee reaction animations for the enemies. Like, just do one for the left swing and one for the right swing. It's 20x better than nothing (it's just weird seeing as how this is on UE4 and it's later on but the combat looks exactly the same).
They really over used the re-triggering on Shodans voice.
Looks like everything is too spongy, especially the animations.
[QUOTE=SelfishDragon;51898141]Just look at this notable example of what SHODAN sounded like in the original game: [video=youtube_share;wQtZPNjc2gY]http://youtu.be/wQtZPNjc2gY[/video] This trailer's Shodan doesn't really bring about the same feeling at all for me. Especially with the really jarring changes in pitch.[/QUOTE] The difference is subtlety. Less is more, it makes it far more menacing. When it's over-done, it sounds like someone trying too hard. You have to hit that perfect balance.
Watching the trailer again, I hear what people are getting at with Shodan's voice being over the top. I personally hope they'll be reusing a lot of the source audio and maybe just add some here and there.
That melee combat looks really bad.
The game's director, Jason Fader, had a response to some of the complaints outlined here and in other places regarding the development of the game on the Nightdive Studios discord. [quote= Jason Fader ]Hey everyone, sorry about the delay in answering questions. Been busy nonstop at GDC and it's not over yet. Going to answer all of the questions I can around Monday after my brain recovers I wanted to post here first to you guys about some of the biggest concerns I've been told about Keep in mind, my brain is running on empty... So, the engine change and visual change are unrelated. Things would pretty much look the same in either engine, but the big difference is performance The visuals are still a work in progress and know that I'm listening. What you see in the video is a rough style we are experimenting with to push crisper visuals Art direction was a lower priority for the engine change since we wanted to be sure the technology could do what we needed first Now that we have the pipelines set for getting art into the engine, we'll be iterating on the style and mood The other thing I heard was people were worried that the gameplay was becoming stripped down due to the simple combat shown in the video. Gameplay wasn't a priority for assessing the engine since, again, everything we've researched indicates Unreal can offer the same (if not better) foundation for the gameplay systems We're only 20% through our vertical slice, and there's still a lot to do. The next steps are getting interesting creature and environment behaviors, while also iterating on the hacking puzzles, cyberspace, weapons, and items This is a big game, so we're trying to tackle these components in order, starting with a solid tech foundation and an effective the process for getting art into the game. For now, we chose to bring art in we could finish quickly so we can get the other departments (like design) testing their stuff in engine. More elaborate and iconic art is coming, but remember, for this early stage of v slice, it's about establishing a solid foundation to build upon. That's it! If someone can cross-post this on the forums and direct folks to my explanation, that would be a big help. I'm kind of surprised I haven't passed out yet :-P Oh, another thing worth mentioning is that the UE4 video represents 1.5 months of direct content creation, whereas the unity demo had about 6 months[/quote] From what I've read it isn't a bad response, but i think calling it a "Early Pre-Alpha Trailer" wasnt very accurate to the actual state the game itself is in, and is probably leading people to overestimate the state the game itself is in when in reality the project is earlier on than people might think it is. A better name for the trailer could probably have been "Unreal Engine 4 Showcase" or "Vertical Slice Trailer" or something along those lines. Perhaps they shot themselves in the foot with the title of the video. I'm also noticing why people think SHODAN sounds different and I agree now, sorta. It feels a bit too exaggerated and I'm hoping they will tone it down in the final game.
Kickstarter Update addressing some of the feedback that people have given after the latest trailer: [URL]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1825794[/URL] Figured I should post it here. :v: [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] Stuff that matches things discussed in this thread: [quote][B]Q: Why does Shodan sound that way? (girly, smurf, distorted)[/B] Jonathan: To disclose- I can’t speak to the intentions behind the processing, as thus far in the process Terri Brosius has provided her VO with her own processing. But I can speak from an audio direction standpoint, and how we felt that these lines fit in the context of the game… Terri is unique in that she is SHODAN in a much deeper way than most voiceover artists are their characters. Back in the original Shock days, she wrote her own lines and directed herself. She knows SHODAN’s character better than just about anyone. As such, we have been directing her only as much as we need to and she gives her own take, given how close she is to the character of SHODAN. From an audio direction standpoint, what I can say is that when we received the SHODAN lines for the latest video, we all got chills. My skin crawled, even hearing the voice outside of the context of the rest of the video elements, and that hit my mark. There are some subtle differences for sure, especially in the quality of the processing of the voice. However, none of these differences felt outside the bounds of what SHODAN is or could be. To speak specifically to her voice raising pitch, historically SHODAN’s voice has always modulated pitch, both low and high. There may be some new inflections that arise, but nothing that we feel is outside the bounds of what SHODAN means, both technically and emotionally. [/quote] [quote][B]Q: Things now look like a generic scifi shooter[/B] Jason: Keep in mind, this video doesn’t really show off the gameplay we’re going for. Combat is a thing you’ll do, but there will be LOTS of other options to take as you play. We know some players will walk to just run and smash a lot of faces, and they’ll be able to do that, but for the thinking player, they’ll have a diverse set of gameplay tools to tackle situations in hackery or stealthy ways. Without getting into too much detail, the station is essentially a living character, and the player can learn how to use aspects of the station to their advantage. I’ll be sure to share more about the gameplay systems as things get further solidified. [/quote] [quote][B]Q: Things look untextured and bland.[/B] Jason: This was a VERY rapid pass on art stuff and is not final. There’s still a lot more work that will be going into art, as well as bringing in the more iconic nuances of Shock 1. We’ll post more updates on art once things are further along.[/quote] This I also found to be an interesting answer. [quote][B]Q: The music isn't "synthy" enough.[/B] Jonathan: Both because of the history of System Shock and its importance as a sci-fi game, synthesizers are crucial part of its aural soundscape. Because of exactly this reason, when we began work on System Shock, I began accumulating external and analogue synthesizers, modular and otherwise, to build System Shock’s score. They’re my babies! :) Aside from the piano, the music in the trailer is about 90% built out of these synthesizers and processed guitar work. For the trailer, it’s pretty cinematic, so two things about that: First, before working on this trailer there was a lot of internal discussion about what the goals of this trailer was and what we could best do to achieve these goals. The track that you are hearing are indicative of these goals - nothing more or less. A trailer is a different beast than a game is, and seeks to accomplish different things for a different audience. Secondly, System Shock is a wide game from a gameplay perspective; just as there is exploration, combat, hacking, storytelling, and creepiness, there is music to match all of it. Some points may call for theme, some for spooky ambience, and some for punchy electronic music. Just like Jason has to do, we are all constantly asking ourselves “What would System Shock be if LGS was making it in 2017?” As such, there will be some necessary alterations that come from 20+ years of innovation and improvement. But if you’re open to a faithful modern interpretation that tries to capture the essence of what defined System Shock in its time, then maybe you’ll find some enjoyment from the more punchy electronic music found in combat in the game. :)[/quote]
Max, your weapon animations are fucking whack
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