• Why are feminists fat and ugly?
    249 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48376768]I can guarantee you that no sane person believes this. [editline]4th August 2015[/editline] Tumblr troll accounts aren't actually real people and it would be wise to assume people saying things like that are fake accounts being [I]totally epicly funny right guys, I mean those feminists y'know????[/I][/QUOTE] [video=youtube;b1pJ8vYxL3Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1pJ8vYxL3Q[/video]
[QUOTE=Velocet;48376911][video=youtube;b1pJ8vYxL3Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1pJ8vYxL3Q[/video][/QUOTE] Dawkins? Seriously? Could you have chosen more of a pretentious cunt to try and argue for you?
[QUOTE=Velocet;48376911][video=youtube;b1pJ8vYxL3Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1pJ8vYxL3Q[/video][/QUOTE] Of course there's a "freedom from religion" sign, how stereotypical. So let's see, so whoever was making all of these crazy statements that this guy is reading speaks for all feminists?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;48375553] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Still awful" - OvB))[/highlight][/QUOTE] And never come back
From the thread title I thought the video was going to be from The Amazing Atheist
[QUOTE=Sand Castle;48377425]From the thread title I thought the video was going to be from The Amazing Atheist[/QUOTE] Even TAA is above shit like this.
[QUOTE=Velocet;48376911][video=youtube;b1pJ8vYxL3Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1pJ8vYxL3Q[/video][/QUOTE] Well you aren't wrong, There are still idiots like Dawkins running around.
What I think most people forget is that most normal people are feminist at heart, even without really taking note of it. The only tenant is equality between genders, and most people I know full-heartedly support that basic idea. The problem is how far we push for the recognition of females. If it's too little, it's being oblivious and ignorant. If it's too much, it's no longer feminism (inequality), and it misrepresents feminism and sometimes even women. It's sincerely a language issue: people have misappropriated the word for their own agenda that doesn't align with equality, and as a result people have tried their hardest to distance themselves from [I]those[/I] people. Feminism has become associated with the stigma of social justice warriors. It's quite sad. People need to take back the word feminism and show others that feminism can be sane and temperate, because most people are feminist, sane, and temperate.
i wish that the asshole feminists who only do harm to the ideology were called out more by mainstream feminism, pretending they don't exist and aren't a cancer on feminism as a whole does not seem to be working.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;48375148]it's funny because this, in itself, is a myth perpetrated by conservatives and anti-feminists in general. whenever someone whips up a stastic "proving" that there's no wage gap, it turns out those statistics are adjusted for factors like differences in education, number of hours worked, job sector, position, etc. which will of course reduce the gap when presented this way. the adjustements are themselves discriminatory in nature. this is tackled in detail by the european comission in this paper: [url]http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/files/gender_pay_gap/140319_gpg_en.pdf[/url] [editline]also[/editline] also an interesting read: [url]http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/sites/default/files/ef_publication/field_ef_document/ef1018en.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] So you mean, not comparing a Brain Surgeon with a McDonald's worker is discriminatory? lmao [editline]5th August 2015[/editline] you don't compare somone who works 40 hours a week and someone who works 60 hours a week to prove that there is some wage gap, you're purposefully ignoring factors for why someone's pay is going to be different.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48378198]So you mean, not comparing a Brain Surgeon with a McDonald's worker is discriminatory? lmao[/QUOTE] If it were the case that (per your example) brain surgeons were disproportionately male and McDonalds employees were disproportionately female, wouldn't it be better to investigate why this is the case rather than just brushing it off with a tidy "lmao"?
[QUOTE=Chi_DE;48375070]I thought this whole wagegap thing was debunked ages ago. [/QUOTE] Yes and no, but mostly no. Yes in the claim that women make less money overall is bullshit because women are much more likely to choose lower paying jobs like nursing over jobs like engineering. But no in that women are largely grossed out by the culture and atmosphere they experience being, say, a women working in a software company and are choosing lesser paying jobs super shitty reasons.
[QUOTE=MedicWine;48378260]Yes and no, but mostly no. Yes in the claim that women make less money overall is bullshit because women are much more likely to choose lower paying jobs like nursing over jobs like engineering. But no in that women are largely grossed out by the culture and atmosphere they experience being, say, a women working in a software company and are choosing lesser paying jobs super shitty reasons.[/QUOTE] i have to wonder how much of the actual atmosphere of software companies is pushing women away and how much people saying the atmosphere of software companies is horrible for women is pushing women away.
I also wonder how much of it is because women are more people oriented while men are more task oriented? And most jobs involving software (and for that matter, most well paying jobs in general) are task-oriented jobs?
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;48378305]I also wonder how much of it is because women are more people oriented while men are more task oriented? And most jobs involving software (and for that matter, most well paying jobs in general) are task-oriented jobs?[/QUOTE] In one of my Anthropology classes we watched this interesting videos from CBS news, it was about this study done about children; and specifically emotions and differences between genders in showing emotion. It was sort of about the stereotypes about girls being all emotional and boys being all cold and and not emotional at all. On the whole this (single) study actually found that these fairly young children it was the exact opposite; when their mothers no longer paid attention to them generally the young boys cried and visibily showed emotion, while the girls generally did not. Of course it was a single study, and in no way completely conclusive, but is definitely an interesting perspective on what is social in terms of this, and what is biological. this is more semi-related to your post of course.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48378276]i have to wonder how much of the actual atmosphere of software companies is pushing women away and how much people saying the atmosphere of software companies is horrible for women is pushing women away.[/QUOTE] AS I said in an earlier post, I think it's more that girls aren't given as many opportunities as boys to get into engineering and computer science. Like, as a kid my parents got me Lego and books about cars. Lego stimulated my creative side, and almost all of the books has loads of (simplified, of course) details about how cars work. When I was ~10 an uncle bought me [url=http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your-Car-Handle/dp/0912656468]How to Make Your Car Handle[/url], a book filled with physics and technical information, because he knew I liked cars and was good at math. The concepts were over my head, but I read the book, and eventually some of it stuck. Because they saw I liked cars (and Lego), I played Need For Speed and Lego Racers, which I loved, and played to death. And the more games I played, the more I wanted to learn how to make games. Eventually this turned into a position in a CS course. But what if I had been a girl? Maybe they would have gotten me some dolls and books about horses instead. Maybe I wouldn't get to do any physics until I hit high school, because nobody would ever get me those books because I'd never ask for them or even know I wanted them. Maybe I'd be socialized to think games were dumb or "for boys" and thus indirectly miss out on a chance to get into programming. My mom and dad both worked office jobs, but when I was 5 my mom decided to become stay-at-home. Maybe the first experience that I'd have with a professional woman at a job (at an age that I would understand it) would be my female school teachers. Then maybe I'd go into education or something that pays worse than an engineering job. All these things add up. As for hostile atmosphere, I guess the best example I can think of was in class. First year physics, my prof made a sexist joke of some kind. I don't really remember it exactly. But maybe that's because I'm a guy. Maybe if I was a girl I would remember it more clearly. It's a microcosm of how you can forget and gloss over small things like this that don't affect you. I don't think any of the girls in my class became discouraged by that joke alone, but I imagine eventually all of it has to add up and get to you. [editline]5th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Helix Snake;48378305]I also wonder how much of it is because women are more people oriented while men are more task oriented? And most jobs involving software (and for that matter, most well paying jobs in general) are task-oriented jobs?[/QUOTE] I'd ask whether it was nature or nurture (and I'd be inclined to say it's nurture)
I'd be inclined to say nature. At least judging from the pool of cultures I've looked at in my Anthropology classes (I'm an Anthropology major, cultures are my thing yo); in many of them the women are doing things that relate more to cooking, homemaking, and child raising. Of course, not [I]every[/I] culture is like that, but at least from what I've seen, many are.
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48378384]AS I said in an earlier post, I think it's more that girls aren't given as many opportunities as boys to get into engineering and computer science. Like, as a kid my parents got me Lego and books about cars. Lego stimulated my creative side, and almost all of the books has loads of (simplified, of course) details about how cars work. When I was ~10 an uncle bought me [url=http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your-Car-Handle/dp/0912656468]How to Make Your Car Handle[/url], a book filled with physics and technical information, because he knew I liked cars and was good at math. The concepts were over my head, but I read the book, and eventually some of it stuck. Because they saw I liked cars (and Lego), I played Need For Speed and Lego Racers, which I loved, and played to death. And the more games I played, the more I wanted to learn how to make games. Eventually this turned into a position in a CS course. But what if I had been a girl? Maybe they would have gotten me some dolls and books about horses instead. Maybe I wouldn't get to do any physics until I hit high school, because nobody would ever get me those books because I'd never ask for them or even know I wanted them. Maybe I'd be socialized to think games were dumb or "for boys" and thus indirectly miss out on a chance to get into programming. My mom and dad both worked office jobs, but when I was 5 my mom decided to become stay-at-home. Maybe the first experience that I'd have with a professional woman at a job (at an age that I would understand it) would be my female school teachers. Then maybe I'd go into education or something that pays worse than an engineering job. All these things add up. As for hostile atmosphere, I guess the best example I can think of was in class. First year physics, my prof made a sexist joke of some kind. I don't really remember it exactly. But maybe that's because I'm a guy. Maybe if I was a girl I would remember it more clearly. It's a microcosm of how you can forget and gloss over small things like this that don't affect you. I don't think any of the girls in my class became discouraged by that joke alone, but I imagine eventually all of it has to add up and get to you. [editline]5th August 2015[/editline] I'd ask whether it was nature or nurture (and I'd be inclined to say it's nurture)[/QUOTE] i agree that it is more about how children are socialized growing up that effects whether or not they go into the tech industry. i also believe that the doomsaying about how terrible the culture of those career paths are exaggerated to a fault and are contributing to young women deciding to not enter that field just as much as giving girls dolls and horses does while they sre growing up. i personally know a friend of mine who was interested in computer science as a career path abandon it because she read online people saying the workplaces are hostile to women and they are unwanted in the industry. there are some issues that may make it more difficult for women to adapt to the culture, but that's because it is basically a bunch of dudes relating to dude things. a guy would have just as much difficulty adapting to the culture of a women-dominated field, because he can't relate in quite the same way. that doesn't necessarily mean that they're hostile to women, just unused to them.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48376951]Dawkins? Seriously? Could you have chosen more of a pretentious cunt to try and argue for you?[/QUOTE] Couldn't you address the video rather than bitching about Dawkins? [editline]5th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=AbioFlesh;48376971]Of course there's a "freedom from religion" sign, how stereotypical. So let's see, so whoever was making all of these crazy statements that this guy is reading speaks for all feminists?[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that, I'm just saying that it isn't exactly some strawman argument or piece of satire written by some MRA or whatever people were saying it was. Also what's wrong with a bunch of academics meeting up and discussing their constitutionally protected right to freedom of religion, the separation of church and state and freedom from religion entirely. Fedora shitposting aside, it's a respectable organization and if it weren't needed, it wouldn't exist.
[QUOTE=Velocet;48378546]Couldn't you address the video rather than bitching about Dawkins? [editline]5th August 2015[/editline] I'm not saying that, I'm just saying that it isn't exactly some strawman argument or piece of satire written by some MRA or whatever people were saying it was.[/QUOTE] You're acting like a hypothetical person who exists only in the minds of weird conservative teenagers on Reddit is real, then backing yourself up with a video of one of the most pretentious, self-important assholes out there instead of actually arguing in your own words. I'm not going to give his babbling the respect of argument since it doesn't deserve it. 99.99% of people who think "physics are sexist" are trolls, and the last minute portion are mentally ill and have no real standing among actual feminism that is progressing women's rights.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48378585]You're acting like a hypothetical person who exists only in the minds of weird conservative teenagers on Reddit is real, then backing yourself up with a video of one of the most pretentious, self-important assholes out there instead of actually arguing in your own words. I'm not going to give his babbling the respect of argument since it doesn't deserve it. 99.99% of people who think "physics are sexist" are trolls, and the last minute portion are mentally ill and have no real standing among actual feminism that is progressing women's rights.[/QUOTE] Alright, as long as we both acknowledge that these people exist and who legitimately believe such rhetoric are mentally ill. It's just dishonest to not acknowledge that these sorts of people do exist and don't shit up a legitimate social cause.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48378415]I'd be inclined to say nature. At least judging from the pool of cultures I've looked at in my Anthropology classes (I'm an Anthropology major, cultures are my thing yo); in many of them the women are doing things that relate more to cooking, homemaking, and child raising. Of course, not [I]every[/I] culture is like that, but at least from what I've seen, many are.[/QUOTE] you're probably a bad anthropologist if you open your sentence stating you're a cultural anthropologist and end it saying you're a biological anthropologist
[QUOTE=bdd458;48378415]I'm an Anthropology major[/QUOTE] Then you're a pretty horrible one because cultures change, kiddo.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48380628]Then you're a pretty horrible one because cultures change, kiddo.[/QUOTE] do you really want to change people's opinions or do you just want to get those sick zingers out of the way even though there the exact same one as the post previous to yours? all this post does is make you look hostile as fuck especially right after kommodore's
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48382135]do you really want to change people's opinions or do you just want to get those sick zingers out of the way even though there the exact same one as the post previous to yours? all this post does is make you look hostile as fuck especially right after kommodore's[/QUOTE] I remember a much milder Zillamaster.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48380628]Then you're a pretty horrible one because cultures change, kiddo.[/QUOTE] Did I ever say they don't change? No. What I said was from the admittedly small group of cultires we've looked at in my classes (which I want to say is somewhere around the 15-25 area), there seems to be a trend of again, women doing stuff more involved with homemaking and child rearing and such. I'd love to be proved wrong, it's an just an observation based off of what I've seen and been shown that seems to be a general trend. Of course there is far more nuance to all of those cultures, but I would be here for a while if I was to list everyone I've looked at and their culture (while yeah it's a relatively small list, it's still a good 15-25 or so). Which would quite frankly be a waste of time for everyone. All I did was make an observation from things I've seen, I don't treat my opinion like its a fact as you are. And I made that pretty fucking clear.
People calling Dawkins an idiot? What's going on?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48382784]People calling Dawkins an idiot? What's going on?[/QUOTE] yeah he's not an idiot, just a cunt [editline]5th August 2015[/editline] actually no he's an idiot and a cunt
To call Dawkin an idiot is so silly, it's almost as if people have no idea what they're talking about. Pull your head out of social justice hole and educate yourself a bit.
I was a big fan of Dawkins when I was a teenager, but then I grew up.
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