The point is talking about single issues don't have to be purely in the context of feminism, and that there seems to be a tendency among many feminists to lump people into the dreaded Reddit stereotype if they don't
For example infant circumcision, that can be talked about on medical, religious and just plain ethical basis. And to expand on that example, religion can't just be left alone when so much injustice stems from it
Despite the god awful OP these last few pages have been very sensible and I've learned a good bit of information about feminism.
While literally speaking, feminism is a movement for women, practically speaking, its a movement for gender equality. Feminism helps men too.
The literal definition of men's rights would certainly be a subcategory of the practical definition of feminism, but as Dr. Gestapo has highlighted, many men's rights activists can be downright awful. Hopefully sensible ones exist, but they probably don't associate with the label as much.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48389088]it's a counter-movement based on issues that the original movement already addresses
it's basically if a racial equality group split off and said "no, we need ASIAN equality!"
yeah well that's what racial equality is already doing so why make a fuss and make a new movement around specifically ASIAN equality, especially if your new movement is going to constantly be saying stuff negative about racial equality and saying that asians are more discriminated than any other group and that asian equality is more important and asian equality is a real issue but racial equality doesn't matter.
if mens' rights activists were a subset of feminism, people wouldn't care. but they're not - they're a group that actively derides feminism and gender equality in favor of specifically men's rights. not gender equality - men's rights. men only.
it's just a silly distinction to make in the first place. you could just say you're for men's rights without being against feminism and nobody would care, when you state that you're for men's rights and you're against feminism you're basically saying "asians deserve equality but racial equality eh lol"[/QUOTE]
There's constantly new social activist groups that are created for the advancement of different races, however it's more as a way for certain races to take in members of their own race and work together in a way that's positive. It's in no way negative to anyone else and it's all around good vibes.
Here in Las Vegas we have a lot of Mexican and Latino groups that don't do any harm, it's just some focus on problems that affect the problems affecting most Mexicans.
Men Rights Activism, in this scenario, would be if a white group told everyone else that they can't say anything or do anything because they are denying them the greatness they deserve, and then try to counter black activism every step of the way with venom. I've never seen rational MRA members ever, and I've tried my best to look.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48388948]What has feminism done for men or what is it doing now? These are the only two questions I've never got a solid answer to.[/QUOTE]
Feminism is actually pushing for male rape trauma centers/help lines and for the legitimacy of sexual assault charges across all genders (binary and third genders.) For example, when a woman attempted to rape me, the feminism community I'm apart of got behind me and helped me out with the whole traumatic part of it. They definitely did not say "But yr a guy so rape can't happen to you." The only people who believe that are just the assholes who are not really part of the feminism movement but just want something to hide behind, kind of like the men's rights advocates who say that all women lie about rape 100% of the time, something that is definitely not held by the whole community but is the most apparent due to people trying to get factual evidence from shit like /r/funny or LMAO pics.
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48388905]Starlight is really radical I'd say.[/QUOTE]
Also Starlight is like the farthest thing from a radical feminist. Or do you just think that any male who wants to stick up for the mistreatment of women is now a "radical."
I'd honestly love for someone to actually explain what the fuck an "extremist" or "militant" feminist is. Because I for the life of me can't think of any in this day and age. There are no feminists going around bombing sperm banks or smashing up strip clubs. And the "indoctrination" is non-existant outside of people asking "so do you actually think men and women need to be equal???"
It's safe to say that a significant portion of the bullshit ~~feminazi sjw~~ shit that floats around on the Internet is a self-fulfilling prophecy of retardation. Parody accounts or trolling that is taken seriously by idiots, leading to more of it being made because "holy shit I got an audience". Sure there might be some people who are posting shit like "kill all men" legitimately, but remember, it's the fucking Internet. Behind a shield of a TCP/IP connection people are fucking morons and think they're untouchable.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48390562]I'd honestly love for someone to actually explain what the fuck an "extremist" or "militant" feminist is. Because I for the life of me can't think of any in this day and age. There are no feminists going around bombing sperm banks or smashing up strip clubs. And the "indoctrination" is non-existant outside of people asking "so do you actually think men and women need to be equal???"
It's safe to say that a significant portion of the bullshit ~~feminazi sjw~~ shit that floats around on the Internet is a self-fulfilling prophecy of retardation. Parody accounts or trolling that is taken seriously by idiots, leading to more of it being made because "holy shit I got an audience". Sure there might be some people who are posting shit like "kill all men" legitimately, but remember, it's the fucking Internet. Behind a shield of a TCP/IP connection people are fucking morons and think they're untouchable.[/QUOTE]
I know one of these people in real life, and her idea of protesting is through hate, essentially. "You're either with more or against me." No ifs, ands, or buts. And it's all this person would do. She legitimately believed that reverse racism exist and it's okay to hate an entire gender or race, and to very weirdly "counter-oppress". I don't know, she went off the deep end.
But like I said, that's [I]one[/I] person out of my life that's done it, and I know a ton of people who are huge nerds super deep in the internet.
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
I'm pretty sure a lot of what appeals in fighting for or against the over-the-top feminists is the appeal of having a battle. In otherwise vacant lives, people can find retreat and purpose in complaining and bickering about these things.
[QUOTE=splenda;48390364]Also Starlight is like the farthest thing from a radical feminist. Or do you just think that many male who wants to stick up for the mistreatment of women is now a "radical."[/QUOTE]
just wanna point out that starlight isn't male afaik
[QUOTE=Limed00d;48391057]just wanna point out that starlight isn't male afaik[/QUOTE]
Shit there is me assuming things again :v:
[QUOTE=splenda;48391109]Shit there is me assuming things again :v:[/QUOTE]
sexist pig
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48388979]But I don't like none of these? mra sub is mostly whining, redpill, well, I don't think I even need to say, and seduction is just sad.
I agree with feminism as an ideology but I do not wish to say I am one because then I'd be in the same group as people like Starlight and MaxOf. My other problem is that people like you don't seem to care for extremists within the group. Gives off a bad vibe as if you're secretly supporting them.
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
Could you please cut your shitposting? If you have nothing to say, keep it to yourself. If you do, construct at least once sentence.[/QUOTE]
:toadleave:
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;48391060]Feel free to join in if it is such a problem, sadly most never go further than just rating the OP dumb and that complain about it being a echochamber.
And if the OP is biased or what not feel free to work with me to solve it.[/QUOTE]
i have nothing against the idea of the thread itself, game journalism is terrible and gamers should be critical, but most of what i've seen on twitter and the fp thread is a bunch of dudes railing against "SJWs" and the same shit being repeated over and over, a lot of which is stuff not really related to game journalism at all
at first i was enthusiastic that people seemingly started to care more about journalistic standards but then the discussion just devolved to shit slinging, harassment and just overall unpleasantness, so i bailed. i realize this isn't all there is to it but at this point it's just not worth the effort for me at least
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;48391730]i have nothing against the idea of the thread itself, game journalism is terrible and gamers should be critical, but most of what i've seen on twitter and the fp thread is a bunch of dudes railing against "SJWs" and the same shit being repeated over and over, a lot of which is stuff not really related to game journalism at all
at first i was enthusiastic that people seemingly started to care more about journalistic standards but then the discussion just devolved to shit slinging, harassment and just overall unpleasantness, so i bailed. i realize this isn't all there is to it but at this point it's just not worth the effort for me at least[/QUOTE]
Oh we're still about journalism, but most of that stuff is usually just us laughing at something when there's not a whole lot to do. And a lot of times, there isn't.
or sometimes, in the case of the more well known and respected people who are pretty much just bullshitting about something relating to something that has to do with us, we'll try to think of counter-arguments to whatever they have to say so people don't buy into the bullshit.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;48391730]at first i was enthusiastic that people seemingly started to care more about journalistic standards but then the discussion just devolved to shit slinging, harassment and just overall unpleasantness, so i bailed. i realize this isn't all there is to it but at this point it's just not worth the effort for me at least[/QUOTE]
That's exactly why I left gamergate.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;48391730]i have nothing against the idea of the thread itself, game journalism is terrible and gamers should be critical, but most of what i've seen on twitter and the fp thread is a bunch of dudes railing against "SJWs" and the same shit being repeated over and over, a lot of which is stuff not really related to game journalism at all
at first i was enthusiastic that people seemingly started to care more about journalistic standards but then the discussion just devolved to shit slinging, harassment and just overall unpleasantness, so i bailed. i realize this isn't all there is to it but at this point it's just not worth the effort for me at least[/QUOTE]
It seems kind of funny to me how GG has become amorphous to the point that it sometimes actually affects what games people buy based on the creator's stance on it, and yet the usual response (here at least) to things like Feminist Frequency was "I just want to play video games, please don't bring politics into it." I mean, there just seems to be some selectiveness going on, and that's probably a big reason for the direction it took.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;48391936]I see it as solving something by doing what exactly is the problem, getting more with opposing views has been brought up many times. But there seems to be this trend of voluntary letting echo chambers get created and then complaining they exist while it could have been prevented in the first place (also applies to some other stuff). Meanwhile the discussions have slowed down a bit a less people are involved and most of the hot heads are gone so it can be improved if anyone wants to (and unlike other places there is little stopping you from joining in expect for breaking FP rules).
So yeah keeping that offer open for you and anyone else.
But its a bit of a derail.[/QUOTE]
How do you prevent an echochamber? Aren't they just sort of the result of how social media works?
[QUOTE=Cone;48391947]It seems kind of funny to me how GG has become amorphous to the point that it sometimes actually affects what games people buy based on the creator's stance on it, and yet the usual response (here at least) to things like Feminist Frequency was "I just want to play video games, please don't bring politics into it." I mean, there just seems to be some selectiveness going on, and that's probably a big reason for the direction it took.[/QUOTE]
I've seen Fem-Freq be more held up as the pinnacle of backwards-ass journalism that gamergate tries to fight. People say they don't want to bring politics into it when someone tries to say it's about feminism or that everyone involved in it is a liberal, those types of things, basically.
[QUOTE=Steele92;48388862]They don't like being called "SJWs" but they'll conveniently call anyone they don't like an MRA[/QUOTE]
The difference is that "SJW" is a bullshit term made up by far right hategroups to lump in anyone that they disagree with, while "MRA/MRM" is an actual thing that the people we're calling out for (ranger, TAA, etc) actually identify and support. There's something wrong with calling everyone you disagree with a commie, but if someone proudly proclaims their membership in the Nazi party then you better believe I'm going to call them a Nazi.
[QUOTE=Cone;48391947]It seems kind of funny to me how GG has become amorphous to the point that it sometimes actually affects what games people buy based on the creator's stance on it, and yet the usual response (here at least) to things like Feminist Frequency was "I just want to play video games, please don't bring politics into it." I mean, there just seems to be some selectiveness going on, and that's probably a big reason for the direction it took.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever considered that it might not be all the same people?
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;48393286]The difference is that "SJW" is a bullshit term made up by far right hategroups to lump in anyone that they disagree with, while "MRA/MRM" is an actual thing that the people we're calling out for (ranger, TAA, etc) actually identify and support. There's something wrong with calling everyone you disagree with a commie, but if someone proudly proclaims their membership in the Nazi party then you better believe I'm going to call them a Nazi.[/QUOTE]
SJW is not a group, It's a term, just like you said. Calling someone an SJW is more akin to calling someone an idiot or hypocrite than it is to calling someone a commie or a nazi.
And yeah, when someone is being an idiot, you better believe I'm going to call them an idiot.
[QUOTE=elowin;48393591]Have you ever considered that it might not be all the same people?
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
[B]SJW is not a group, It's a term,[/B] just like you said. Calling someone an SJW is more akin to calling someone an idiot or hypocrite than it is to calling someone a commie or a nazi.
And yeah, when someone is being an idiot, you better believe I'm going to call them an idiot.[/QUOTE]
There's plenty of people out there who think it is a group.
[QUOTE=Steele92;48388862]They don't like being called "SJWs" but they'll conveniently call anyone they don't like an MRA[/QUOTE]
But MRA is a label chosen by MRAs. Nobody calls themselves a social justice warrior unironically anymore.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48393678]There's plenty of people out there who think it is a group.[/QUOTE]
Even if that were the case, I don't really see the significance.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;48393889]But MRA is a label chosen by MRAs. Nobody calls themselves a social justice warrior unironically anymore.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how that matters if who you're calling an MRA does not actually identify as such, and I'm pretty sure that was what Steele was talking about.
[QUOTE=elowin;48394246]I don't see how that matters if who you're calling an MRA does not actually identify as such, and I'm pretty sure that was what Steele was talking about.[/QUOTE]
don't see anyone calling people they disagree with mras here
but on the other end of the spectrum we have
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48383749]Pull your head out of social justice hole and educate yourself a bit.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=itisjuly;48383793]And became a white knight? Not much of a progress made there pal.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=itisjuly;48388841]this thread is really disgusting, I didn't know such a large part of fp was hardcore SJW[/QUOTE]
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
btw itisjuly i really want you to expand on that last post. wanting equal rights for all genders is apparently "disgusting" now
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;48391730]i have nothing against the idea of the thread itself, game journalism is terrible and gamers should be critical, but most of what i've seen on twitter and the fp thread is a bunch of dudes railing against "SJWs" and the same shit being repeated over and over, a lot of which is stuff not really related to game journalism at all
at first i was enthusiastic that people seemingly started to care more about journalistic standards but then the discussion just devolved to shit slinging, harassment and just overall unpleasantness, so i bailed. i realize this isn't all there is to it but at this point it's just not worth the effort for me at least[/QUOTE]
More importantly, people are getting upset that the anti-GG celebrities don't look into things enough and are exaggerating claims, yet do the exact same thing back to them.
I realized I was doing this a few days ago and have tried my best to take a good hard look at myself and what I actually believe. I mentioned Anita Sarkeesian's jacket rant:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/biPzI74.png[/t]
What's not in the image is the clothes used in Tomb Raider Underworld:
[t]https://thementalattic.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/trrisecrash-img1.jpg[/t]
The thing I've been saying to both sides on any issue is to not make shit up when there's plenty of stuff to talk about. It's clear that on both sides of the GamerGate issue, people want an easy route to get angry than simple means to actually meet up and talk, especially since there's a lot of issues I can see both sides agreeing on. Both sides suck major ass.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48369067]I wish posting videos like this was considered trolling. Really, the only reason a person would post this is to get people riled up.[/QUOTE]
Does difference of opinions trigger you, Starlight456? :^)
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("trolling" - postal))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;48394942]Does difference of opinions trigger you, Starlight456? :^)[/QUOTE]
They probably don't. But judging on your previous arguments, they sure do trigger you.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;48394942]Does difference of opinions trigger you, Starlight456? :^)[/QUOTE]
Nah, just the outright stupidity of generalizing an entire movement for no other reason than to stroke an ego instead of actual, logical argumentation. I mean, it's hard to argue, so it makes sense that someone of superior intellect went the route of calling feminists fat and ugly, as if being fat and ugly even mattered in a conversation.
It's kind of like when you, SEB, can't make an actual argument that makes sense. You'll probably moan and groan about the Facepunch hivemind and say things like, "are you triggered" to cover up the fact that you can't and don't know how to argue, let alone talk without aggression towards the opposite sex. Or you'll run, shouting how you were only pretending to be retarded. Us fools!
But what matters is the fact that [I]you're right[/I], SEB. When everyone collapses under the weight of the fat feminists who want to oppress the cis males, you'll stand tall and tell the world that you predicted the doom of the dystopian female apocalypse. The earth will tremble of triggered regret as you tip your fedora.
But never mind the fact that the point of this video isn't to increase conversation, but to increase viewcount. It's what you call :clickbait:.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;48394942]Does difference of opinions trigger you, Starlight456? :^)[/QUOTE]
Didn't you get super upset and pissy because I linked articles on how libertarians are just the same shitty conservatives with a different name?
Besides, there's no other reason for someone to post this clickbait trash besides riling people up, which he's done pretty damn effectively.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48395102]Nah, just the outright stupidity of generalizing an entire movement for no other reason than to stroke an ego instead of actual, logical argumentation. I mean, it's hard to argue, so it makes sense that someone of superior intellect went the route of calling feminists fat and ugly, as if being fat and ugly even mattered in a conversation.
It's kind of like when you, SEB, can't make an actual argument that makes sense. You'll probably moan and groan about the Facepunch hivemind and say things like, "are you triggered" to cover up the fact that you can't and don't know how to argue, let alone talk without aggression towards the opposite sex. Or you'll run, shouting how you were only pretending to be retarded. Us fools!
But what matters is the fact that [I]you're right[/I], SEB. When everyone collapses under the weight of the fat feminists who want to oppress the cis males, you'll stand tall and tell the world that you predicted the doom of the dystopian female apocalypse. The earth will tremble of triggered regret as you tip your fedora.
But never mind the fact that the point of this video isn't to increase conversation, but to increase viewcount. It's what you call :clickbait:.[/QUOTE]
OHHH SHITTT, THERE'S NOWHERE TO HIDE. YOU ARE THE GODDAMN BURN MASTER!
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
[video]https://youtu.be/_tWC5qtfby4[/video]
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;48393286]The difference is that "SJW" is a bullshit term made up by far right hategroups to lump in anyone that they disagree with, while "MRA/MRM" is an actual thing that the people we're calling out for (ranger, [B]TAA, etc) actually identify and support.[/B][/QUOTE]
Pretty baseless stuff.
Also, Sjw is derogatory and aimed more at behaviors instead of values.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48395139]Pretty baseless stuff.
Also, Sjw is derogatory and aimed more at behaviors instead of values.[/QUOTE]
"Baseless" you say as you literally filled all of page 5 with "but MRAs are actually fine guys look" and your proof is shit like this:
[quote=Mequa]I think manipulative, catty, conniving, calculating females are pure evil. Applying indirect, covert aggression as a power play, manipulating men to get in their good graces and climb up the pecking order, before aggressively attacking those who don't "fit in" for their own sadistic pleasure, to aggrandise their own ego and to raise their own status. Playing the victim to stir white knights to go on the attack at their target, when they are the aggressor. Having utter contempt and disdain for anyone they sleep with. Expecting males to be Teflon and always shifting the blame when anyone else gets hurt - it's always the other person's fault for being hurtable, for not being Teflon - they always have zero accountability for any harm caused, deny any role in it, and tell themselves it's not them to feel good and look good. Deluding people, by putting on a cute demeanour, that "she wouldn't do that". Using charm to beguile, while calculatingly lashing out at anyone who dares to reveal their true colours or who even sees through their mask at what they really are. Totally void of empathy or sympathy, while putting it on purely fakely to gain an advantage.[/quote]
[editline]6th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48395139]Pretty baseless stuff.
Also, Sjw is derogatory and aimed more at behaviors instead of values.[/QUOTE]
"SJW" is a meaningless thought-ending argument that serves as a way to try and say "I'm right and you're wrong no buts!".
It's used in the context of supporting literally anything and everything, including (actual) radical feminism, to everyday normal gender equality ideals, to LGBT acceptance, to supporting the civil rights act.
It's a term that's at the source only ever used to twist support of a progressive movement to being somehow wrong, because the "SJW" has an opinion contradictory to the person who disagrees with the "SJW".
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