Why is 9/11 Still So Relevant? - General

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48664604]The entire video disassembles the concept that 9/11 = Pear Harbor In fact, the whole point of the video is to explain how we're still hyped up about it 14 years after the fact where as we "got over" Pear Harbor after 1945. I guess the title of the video shouldn't be "why is 9/11 so relevant" but "why aren't Americans getting over 9/11".[/QUOTE] to be fair pearl harbour was "gotten over" after 2 entire cities were wiped off the face of the earth. Kind of hard to go wanting action after that.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48657265]you very well could put the blame for it all on gavrilo princip, the man who assassinated archduke franz ferdinand in an act of terror.[/QUOTE] Gavrilo started the fire? I was in preschool when 9/11 happened, so much of my upbringing was during the Bush administration and the war on terror. I learned about current events from overhearing Jay Leno monologues in bed, and caricatures of Bin Laden and the Middle East from South Park and flash animations on Albinoblacksheep. It seems like people were just really afraid for most of the 2000's, they didn't really know if and when another terrorist attack could occur

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48664792]to be fair pearl harbour was "gotten over" after 2 entire cities were wiped off the face of the earth. Kind of hard to go wanting action after that.[/QUOTE] That's exactly the video's point. There was closure for that. Not for 9/11. I'm getting the feeling a few (or a lot) just read the title and commented without watching the video.

Up until September 11th, 2001, the U.S. was practically untouchable... this was a solid shake to the complacent mindset of the normal way of life. It's not just about the loss of over 3,000 lives, but the U.S. was struck in the heart of its economic powerhouse, and the brains of its intelligence powerhouse.

I'm actually surprised by how unpolarized(?) this whole discussion is.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48666638]That's exactly the video's point. There was closure for that. Not for 9/11. I'm getting the feeling a few (or a lot) just read the title and commented without watching the video.[/QUOTE] The video seems to think people think Pearl Harbor and 9/11 are a 1:1 copy is the problem. Yes, we may have never got "closure" for 9/11, but it fails to acknowledge the fact that WWII was a lot bigger of a war. 2,229 died in Afghanistan and 3,527 died in Iraq opposed to the 419,400 Americans died in World War II. People were all celebrating in the street because it was a lot larger of a scale and going into World War II people were unsure if we would actually even win. After 9/11 no one ever thought that we would never get the terrorists behind 9/11.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48666638]That's exactly the video's point. There was closure for that. Not for 9/11. I'm getting the feeling a few (or a lot) just read the title and commented without watching the video.[/QUOTE] I never had time to watch the video so I responded [i]to a post that describes the video[/i]. So, sue me.

[QUOTE=matt000024;48667875]The video seems to think people think Pearl Harbor and 9/11 are a 1:1 copy is the problem. Yes, we may have never got "closure" for 9/11, but it fails to acknowledge the fact that WWII was a lot bigger of a war. 2,229 died in Afghanistan and 3,527 died in Iraq opposed to the 419,400 Americans died in World War II. People were all celebrating in the street because it was a lot larger of a scale and going into World War II people were unsure if we would actually even win. After 9/11 no one ever thought that we would never get the terrorists behind 9/11.[/QUOTE] We did though. Al Qaeda has nearly been annihilated over the past years since 9/11. It's command structure has been so totally destroyed that its barley a cohesive group anymore. More of a bunch of different Jihadist groups under the same name. [editline]12th September 2015[/editline] A lot of people seem to think somehow bin laden's goal was accomplished, he wanted to draw the U.S into a war of attrition and bleed them out until the West was forced to totally pull out of the middle east. Its 14 years latter, the U.S is as strong or even more so than it was prior to 9/11, Western countries are more involved in the middle east than ever before, Al Qaeda has been severely crippled and is now been far surpassed by another Jihadist group that wants to destroy them.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48667938]I never had time to watch the video so I responded [i]to a post that describes the video[/i]. So, sue me.[/QUOTE] It's okay. Videos like this tend to serve the same purpose as a SH article, it's a source providing fuel for discussion, whether that discussion ends up being about the video is beside the point. The video's about why 9/11 is still relevant, so the thread becomes an independent conversation about the subject matter the video introduced. We shouldn't be expected to always talk about the video itself unless it's something like a Let's Play

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48668263]We did though. Al Qaeda has nearly been annihilated over the past years since 9/11. It's command structure has been so totally destroyed that its barley a cohesive group anymore. More of a bunch of different Jihadist groups under the same name. [editline]12th September 2015[/editline] A lot of people seem to think somehow bin laden's goal was accomplished, he wanted to draw the U.S into a war of attrition and bleed them out until the West was forced to totally pull out of the middle east. Its 14 years latter, the U.S is as strong or even more so than it was prior to 9/11, Western countries are more involved in the middle east than ever before, Al Qaeda has been severely crippled and is now been far surpassed by another Jihadist group that wants to destroy them.[/QUOTE] I never said we failed it. I'm saying everyone went in expecting us to win so it wasn't too surprising.

Imagine how different the world will be had 9/11 not happened.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;48656280]America constantly goes through these "invincibility" cycles where we think we're awesome and even get pompous until something fucks us up. The first thing I think of to roughly equate to this catastrophe in certain aspects was the Great Depression.[/QUOTE] I think it provided a wake-up call to us that we are not safe. It showed how critically lacking our security/safety systems were. If it wasnt 9/11, it would be something else. I just wish the event come with the extreme Muslim and middle eastern hate that still exists today

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48657115]It's amazing when you go back and think of all the moments in history that triggered huge changes in the world in general. WWI introduced Industialized Warfare, and made the last century line battles with muskets look like a children's game compared to the brutal Chemical and Trench Warfare in Western Europe. With that war we got new machines like combustion engine driven armored cars, tanks and tank warfare, and the arming of Airplanes and the start of Dogfighting. Then the Great Depression happened, suddenly the entire world faced a bust never seen before. Millions of jobs were lost, and with the advent of Communism shortly before it happened, fears flared up that the now disgruntled workers could be swayed by Communist tenants and cause uprisings throughout the planet. The Great Depression itself would be the main fuel that would drive Hitler into power to bring Germany back into tip top shape, and drive any communist ideas out. World War II changed the second half of the 20th century. WWI got out of the trenches and into a conflict that would literallry span almost the entire globe. In the Pacific, fights were fought between the fanatical Japanese, guerilla tribals and rebels from Pacific/Asian nations under Japanese control and allied with the angry Americans wanting revenge for Pearl Harbour (the original 9/11). And over in Europe a fight against a monsterous facist regime between the allies of the west, and the brutal Russians of the east, the Eastern Front being infamous for how brutal it was on both sides. The harsh winters, the sieges of Leningrad and Stalingrad are imfamous war stories today, as well as the destructive Battle of Berlin, in which the city itself was nearly razed to the ground. The American's ended the war with the mother of all bombs. It's perfect to say that the moment the bomb in Hiroshima went off, the Cold War started. Also thanks to the Nazis, we got rocket and jet tech. Speaking of which, the Cold War, easily the most infulential piece of history still in effect today. The fight between America and Soviet Russia for influence onto the globe as after the war they both became major super powers. America ending up rich and militarily powerful, and Russia also militarily powerful and having managed huge land grabs during it's "liberations" of Eastern Europe from a Germany that was split into two. From this perious are plenty of decades that are remembered for how distinct we remember them. The 1950s with it's charming hum drum sitcom-esque lifestyle with the dark undertones of racism and very hostile anti-communist vibes, also the advent of Rock and Roll. The 60s being the complete opposite of the 50s with peace and love, the advent of drug use/lots of sex, and vastly improving upon Rock and Roll with groups like the Beatles, as well as going to the mother fucking moon! The 70s with their disco, advent of electronic music, oil crisis, and the early stages of video gaming. The 80s with all it's movies, Video game crash shortly followed by Nintendo and Mario, as well as the death of Soviet Russia. Finally the 90s, with it's optimism, famous movies and music, TV animation boom, and all the commericals you could have, as well as Bill Clinton and the Internet. And now 9/11, after 9/11 we had a brief period of anti-Arabic feelings (Yes I watched Mind of Mencia, yes I regret it now in retrospect.), and growing of the internet and gaming culture under the Bush years, which we also feel to this day. The US Government and it's facilities like TSA and CIA seemed more dodgy as they tried whatever they could in the name of security against the possibility of another 9/11. We got the first colored President in American history, and killed the man behind 9/11, Arabia was in constant flux with the Iraq wars, the hunt for terrorists and Osama Bin Laden, and the Arab Spring. And just recently the competion of the World Trade Center's replacement. God I fucking love History.[/QUOTE] Let's go back further. I compare 9/11 to Adrianople in many ways. Rome had been in decline for many years but Constantine and brought the Empire back some of its glory. Then the Goths devastated them at Adrianople and from there the Empire started falling apart. Although Adrianople was not the direct cause of the Empire's decline, it was certainly a mark that the end was coming. 9/11 is the same way. If our nation was truly strong then it would not matter in the long run, but our country has been weakening for a while and the rest of the world is catching up. 9/11 is a sign, a portend of this country's decline. It is a grim reminder that we are in our dying days. Hell, it may even be a sign that the world itself is in decline. Islam has been mutated by legions of extremists while the West declines economically. Russia is attempting to claw its way back from defeat and re-establish its empire. The ecology of the planet has already started to collapse so no matter what happens to all these countries we are pretty much boned regardless. People will say I am cynical but having examined what has happened to the world in the past, it is safe to say we are entering another Dark Age. The decline is global, and 9/11 is there to show us just that. A symbol of world commerce and cooperation is destroyed by hateful extremists, and those same extremists are winning.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48675200]Let's go back further. I compare 9/11 to Adrianople in many ways. Rome had been in decline for many years but Constantine and brought the Empire back some of its glory. Then the Goths devastated them at Adrianople and from there the Empire started falling apart. Although Adrianople was not the direct cause of the Empire's decline, it was certainly a mark that the end was coming. 9/11 is the same way. If our nation was truly strong then it would not matter in the long run, but our country has been weakening for a while and the rest of the world is catching up. 9/11 is a sign, a portend of this country's decline. It is a grim reminder that we are in our dying days. Hell, it may even be a sign that the world itself is in decline. Islam has been mutated by legions of extremists while the West declines economically. Russia is attempting to claw its way back from defeat and re-establish its empire. The ecology of the planet has already started to collapse so no matter what happens to all these countries we are pretty much boned regardless. People will say I am cynical but having examined what has happened to the world in the past, it is safe to say we are entering another Dark Age. The decline is global, and 9/11 is there to show us just that. A symbol of world commerce and cooperation is destroyed by hateful extremists, and those same extremists are winning.[/QUOTE] Russia is far too corrupt to ever match the US's economic power. Especially with their negative population growth. And China's economy is half inflated to look more powerful than it is. The recent roller coaster ride in the Chinese Stock Exchange is evidence of this. The only real contender for American economic power is the EU but due to the nature of so many different ethnic groups uniting with each other, it'll be a long while before they can reach that point. Politically, America is extremely stable. We're not intensely corrupt like Russia nor a single-party dictatorship like China. Don't be fooled by the roadblocks of bipartisanship in Congress, America is still a very efficient democracy. We aren't entering some dark age and radical Islam isn't going to destroy us through the War on Terror. We've beaten back Al Qaeda into a few old men hiding in mountain caves. Sure, the Islamic State is a powerful force in the Middle East, but only because they have yet to fight against a well-trained, well-equipped military force.

[QUOTE=Explosions;48657196]It's naive to think this way. A 9/11-type attack by Islamic extremists was destined to happen eventually and then things would have most likely unfolded in the same manner. Iraq would have most likely been invaded regardless of whether it happened or not (hell, Al Gore probably would have done the same had he been elected).[/QUOTE] If you read into it, Cheney had an 6 step plan to the middle east. It started with Afgahnistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, and Saudi Arabia. Look at where we're at now. Toppled all but 1 dictator.

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;48656042]Because it was the moment that defined this century?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure trump 2016 will define the century.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48657115]It's amazing when you go back and think of all the moments in history that triggered huge changes in the world in general. WWI introduced Industialized Warfare, and made the last century line battles with muskets look like a children's game compared to the brutal Chemical and Trench Warfare in Western Europe. With that war we got new machines like combustion engine driven armored cars, tanks and tank warfare, and the arming of Airplanes and the start of Dogfighting.[/QUOTE] Actually, the American Civil War was more than likely the first truly industrialized war, just on a much smaller scale than WWI. It was the first war where railway lines and manufacturing cities truly mattered.

[QUOTE=Moustacheman;48679693]Actually, the American Civil War was more than likely the first truly industrialized war, just on a much smaller scale than WWI. It was the first war where railway lines and manufacturing cities truly mattered.[/QUOTE] Yeah but I lean towards WWI simply because of all the mechanical revolutions to warfare. Sure there were trains and factories, but American Civil War was small scale compared to the larger scale of Europe with apocalyptic looking fields with trenches. I mean Gettysburg doesn't really compare to the Battle of the Somme.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48679752]Yeah but I lean towards WWI simply because of all the mechanical revolutions to warfare. Sure there were trains and factories, but American Civil War was small scale compared to the larger scale of Europe with apocalyptic looking fields with trenches. I mean Gettysburg doesn't really compare to the Battle of the Somme.[/QUOTE] Fun fact, the American War Between the States had trench warfare long before WW1

[QUOTE=OvB;48657456]I didn't know what terrorism was until 9/11. Previous bombings/etc always struck me as lone wolf evil criminals and nothing more. 9/11 killed my childhood ignorance. I saw how dark the world can be.[/QUOTE] I see a lot of Americans getting offended when people from other countries don't really care about 9/11 any more and I think this has a lot to do with it. In Europe we have had terrorism for a long time, it's just that it's fairly small scale and somewhat constant. Pretty much everywhere has dissident groups, terrorists, or other threats for in and outside their borders, and if they don't they have neighbouring countries that do. In America you have always been fairly secure, no major terrorist attacks, no real separatist groups, all your wars were in far away places. Then you get hit with one of the most devastating single attack in history, seemingly out of the blue for most people. I must have been a hell of a shock. I remember watching it live after I got home from school. It was shocking to me, but I had grown up with news reports of terrorist attacks fairly close to home, along with living in a shitty area where actual bombings happen, so it was just another shitty thing I knew about. For kids living in America, a seemingly invincible behemoth, it probably shook the foundations of everything they knew.