CS:GO Hitboxes to Terrorist Models Compared [3kliksphilip]
57 replies, posted
What a bunch of fucking losers. Being assholes to a guy with a genuine love for mapping.
He mentioned facepunch one time in a video, while having stills of the disgusting comments some of you gave him. It was this or maybe last year so his experience on here stuck with him, but the segment was so brief that i can't remember which video it was.
But I digress. You bullied away a great man from this forum. Great job "mapping community" of facepunch. elitist fucks.
[QUOTE=Wormy;52638613]I don't think inaccurate hitboxes are the actual big problem in CSGO which so many people like to put the blame on. It's more of a problem with lag compensation. You won't be able to have perfect hitboxes on a player in most cases if you're playing online.
This applies to many other FPS games.[/QUOTE]
You'll have perfect hitboxes (i.e hit detection against exactly what's on your screen) if the lag compensation actually works. That doesn't guarantee your player is in the correct position, that you're not already dead on the server or simply got fucked by spread etc, but without it your hit detection will be absolutely fucked.
In CS:GO it doesn't work, because animation params (such as aim direction relative to feet) aren't lagcomped at all, animation transitions being smoothed clientside (not compensated) and lag compensation sometimes even being done against the wrong tick (the clientside clock correction misfeature explodes if your game freezes/stutters and sends your usercmd's tick number into the future for a second or so, and you can't turn it off because fuck you that's why).
[editline]3rd September 2017[/editline]
Side note: Source's clientside clock correction has nothing to do with the serverside one, which is also badly designed and doesn't work in a way that makes sense, but also shouldn't actually affect anything.
[editline]3rd September 2017[/editline]
Oh and your own teammates won't receive any lag compensation at all, which is how you can knife one of them if they're behind you. That's probably just done because their animation code is hot garbage and extremely slow.
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;52642914]The fact of the matter is that he regularly interchanged the Clipping tool and Carve tool in his tutorials, and it was called out within multiple communities.[/QUOTE]
Then why did you post a video of him [i]not[/i] doing the thing you say he did along with a timestamp of him [i]not[/i] doing that??
If he was so notorious for "very crude and frankly terrible mapping techniques/advice" then surely you shouldn't have much trouble finding instances of that?
It feels like you're greatly overexaggerating the flaws in 3klik's tutorials. Yes a lot of new mappers were born thanks to Kliks but it's on [i]them[/i] if they didn't follow his tutorial on lighting. It's on [i]them[/i] if they ignored his advice that hollow skyboxes should not be used for final maps and only for quick previews.
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;52642914]I'm not going to get into this timeless argument again because I really couldn't care less about it at this point. The fact of the matter is that he regularly interchanged the Clipping tool and Carve tool in his tutorials, and it was called out within multiple communities. Whether you like it or not is up to you, again, I couldn't care less.
His tutorials were poorly written and outdone by multiple people. You can choose to dislike the facts, but history is history. I'm simply telling you why he was looked down upon by the mapping community.[/QUOTE]
How in denial can you be? The future is now, old man.
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;52642914]I'm not going to get into this timeless argument again because I really couldn't care less about it at this point. The fact of the matter is that he regularly interchanged the Clipping tool and Carve tool in his tutorials, and it was called out within multiple communities. Whether you like it or not is up to you, again, I couldn't care less.
His tutorials were poorly written and outdone by multiple people. You can choose to dislike the facts, but history is history. I'm simply telling you why he was looked down upon by the mapping community.[/QUOTE]
Kliks got me into mapping. His tutorials were invaluable when it seemed like all I could find were low definition german tutorials on how to make moving objects. His voice and music choice was relaxing, the videos were concise and in decent enough quality I could actually see what he was doing, and that was all I ever asked for.
I didn't turn into some savant making CSGO operation maps but through the small projects I worked on it gave me a healthy respect for what goes into maps, how they work, and how lazy mapping fuckers are for not putting cubemaps in and fixing their shitty reflections.
Fuck gated communities.
[QUOTE=Tobba;52643351]You'll have perfect hitboxes (i.e hit detection against exactly what's on your screen) if the lag compensation actually works. That doesn't guarantee your player is in the correct position, that you're not already dead on the server or simply got fucked by spread etc, but without it your hit detection will be absolutely fucked.
In CS:GO it doesn't work, because animation params (such as aim direction relative to feet) aren't lagcomped at all, animation transitions being smoothed clientside (not compensated) and lag compensation sometimes even being done against the wrong tick (the clientside clock correction misfeature explodes if your game freezes/stutters and sends your usercmd's tick number into the future for a second or so, and you can't turn it off because fuck you that's why).
[editline]3rd September 2017[/editline]
Side note: Source's clientside clock correction has nothing to do with the serverside one, which is also badly designed and doesn't work in a way that makes sense, but also shouldn't actually affect anything.
[editline]3rd September 2017[/editline]
Oh and your own teammates won't receive any lag compensation at all, which is how you can knife one of them if they're behind you. That's probably just done because their animation code is hot garbage and extremely slow.[/QUOTE]
You seem to know a lot about networking in games. - Do you happen to know any online resources or open source projects that implement clock correction/prediction/lag compensation correctly? This stuff sounds really interesting to me, but digging through valve's [I]not so great[/I] (and apparently incorrect) code is a pain in the ass.
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;52642914]I'm not going to get into this timeless argument again because I really couldn't care less about it at this point. The fact of the matter is that he regularly interchanged the Clipping tool and Carve tool in his tutorials, and it was called out within multiple communities. Whether you like it or not is up to you, again, I couldn't care less.
His tutorials were poorly written and outdone by multiple people. You can choose to dislike the facts, but history is history. I'm simply telling you why he was looked down upon by the mapping community.[/QUOTE]
Man that's a shitfucking bad community if it's willing to be so hostile
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52643677]Man that's a shitfucking bad community if it's willing to be so hostile[/QUOTE]
The mapping community for Source has always been a hard one to break in to as a beginner. You can exactly release your first maps as they will always be objectively garbage. I never got around to releasing anything as I never really felt I hit the quality "barrier". But you need to get some feedback on them either way. With the influx of fucking terrible maps and new mappers with egos the size of Sol, it didn't take long before people got fed up of that shit and just started behaving openly hostile as a first move.
I'll admit I'm pretty sure I railed on 3kliks for his earlier mapping videos, because I'm personally of the belief that if you don't teach someone the right thing first time, it'll just cascade into their later work and they'll keep doing bad things for a while (I see it a lot in software dev, so that's reaffirmed my beliefs significantly). And if someone wants to learn to map, you don't need to sit down and watch 2 hour long documentaries on how to do things, there's loads of excellent but short articles with step by step images on fairly renown sites after all, so the "his videos were short though!" defence doesn't make sense to me.
Chasing him and other new mappers away doesn't really help anyone though.
[QUOTE=zoox;52643671]You seem to know a lot about networking in games. - Do you happen to know any online resources or open source projects that implement clock correction/prediction/lag compensation correctly? This stuff sounds really interesting to me, but digging through valve's [I]not so great[/I] (and apparently incorrect) code is a pain in the ass.[/QUOTE]
Look into Quake 3, it's well-documented and contains a far simpler implementation of everything Source does aside from lag compensation. For Source's networking, see [url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking[/url]
Source's code is actually pretty correct (at least the base version, CS:GO runs on some terribly hacked-up version), but CS:GO itself is absolutely terribly written by virtue of being based on CS:S, which looks like it was someones first stint with the engine. The results of that aren't terribly surprising since the documentation is non-existent. Either way, all the problems I mentioned (except possibly the clock correction) are problems with the game code that cause the networking to misbehave, and not problems with engine itself.
[QUOTE=ChronoBlade;52637999]Facepunch kind of has a track record for that e.g. the report of the week.[/QUOTE]
Reviewbrah got here on the forum because people posted his videos here, he was very kind, most users were kind. Some made fun of him but Reviewbrah pretty much deflected everything by not taking anything serious. Hell, he even rated Facepunch an 8/10 in the end.
He stopped posting here because there wasn't much reason for him to stick around.
[QUOTE=Dr.Cola;52643246]His tutorials were actually simple and easy to understand and allowed people to get into mapping with the most basic understanding of hammer. No reading 20 page on a simple thing or a 10 minute tutorial on making a brush.
Just because people started making bad maps in droves doesn't mean it lies entirely on him, as soon as people who were making bad maps lost interest the rest improved and made much better maps as time went on. Those people might not even have started making maps if not for his tutorials.
As for his mixup with carve and clipping, that doesn't excuse people's toxic behavior like yours towards him as seen in older threads related to 3kliksphillip. And he was mostly only looked down by elitists in the mapping community because anyone with half a brain could see that his tutorials are for absolute beginners.[/QUOTE]
If you consider my behavior toxic then I genuinely don't know what to say other than you really have no idea how poorly Philip was treated by the community. I've personally never gone out of my way to harass Philip, and I never would, I've merely steered people towards better tutorials. I've even defended and personally suggested his tutorials for beginners in the past: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1250104&p=43495869&viewfull=1#post43495869[/url]
[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;52643463]Then why did you post a video of him [i]not[/i] doing the thing you say he did along with a timestamp of him [i]not[/i] doing that??
If he was so notorious for "very crude and frankly terrible mapping techniques/advice" then surely you shouldn't have much trouble finding instances of that?
It feels like you're greatly overexaggerating the flaws in 3klik's tutorials. Yes a lot of new mappers were born thanks to Kliks but it's on [i]them[/i] if they didn't follow his tutorial on lighting. It's on [i]them[/i] if they ignored his advice that hollow skyboxes should not be used for final maps and only for quick previews.[/QUOTE]
I explained what he was doing in that video, confusing the Clipping and Carving tools by name. For a time when there were little video tutorials of quality and brevity, having this be mappers' first intro to tutorials wasn't exactly good. Like I said, I'm not going to pore through his videos and cherry pick, but the community at large has done more than that on its own. If you really want to find every example ever then go dig around some into Philip's early history in the mapping community.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52643677]Man that's a shitfucking bad community if it's willing to be so hostile[/QUOTE]
You have to remember there are two distinct time periods here. The period I'm referring to is 2008-2009 Philip whose tutorials were some of the only videos around for Source tutorials. As a result, he was under a lot of scrutiny at the time by the mapping community whenever he mentioned one thing wrong, like I said in my post, the clip/carve mixup being one example. As hexpunK said, there's a real sense of elitism in the mapping community because quality was a huge thing back then.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52643702]And if someone wants to learn to map, you don't need to sit down and watch 2 hour long documentaries on how to do things, there's loads of excellent but short articles with step by step images on fairly renown sites after all, so the "his videos were short though!" defence doesn't make sense to me. [/QUOTE]
People, myself included, like having a visual aid to be able to see exactly how its done. Written tutorials can be worded confusingly and their pictures skip steps, but a video tutorial shows every step and how it's done by someone else. That's why people flocked towards Philip's tutorials.
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;52644333]
I explained what he was doing in that video, confusing the Clipping and Carving tools by name. For a time when there were little video tutorials of quality and brevity, having this be mappers' first intro to tutorials wasn't exactly good.
[/QUOTE]
An accidental slip-of-the-tongue that's completely harmless as he did showcase the clipping tool and how you enable it, I would've agreed with you to 100% if it was the other way around, as that would've been actual proof of his incompetence, but complaining about this in particular is just petty IMO
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;52644333]If you consider my behavior toxic then I genuinely don't know what to say other than you really have no idea how poorly Philip was treated by the community. I've personally never gone out of my way to harass Philip, and I never would, I've merely steered people towards better tutorials. I've even defended and personally suggested his tutorials for beginners in the past: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1250104&p=43495869&viewfull=1#post43495869[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think it was wrong of me to say that to you sorry, but I still think any kind of error like clipping carve mixup is not worth ridicule for.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52643702]And if someone wants to learn to map, you don't need to sit down and watch 2 hour long documentaries on how to do things, there's loads of excellent but short articles with step by step images on fairly renown sites after all, so the "his videos were short though!" defence doesn't make sense to me. [/QUOTE]
3kliks tutorials were around when youtube was very new to people and his tutorials were really accessible as a result and they were easy to understand too. There weren't that many other tutorials around back then so people mostly flocked to his.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52643702]The mapping community for Source has always been a hard one to break in to as a beginner. You can exactly release your first maps as they will always be objectively garbage. I never got around to releasing anything as I never really felt I hit the quality "barrier". But you need to get some feedback on them either way.[/QUOTE]
Probably unrelated, but it seems more like your ability as a mapper is helped a lot more with practice mainly, and general game design facets like player experience (sometimes also referencing the developer wiki) once you get the absolute basics of Hammer down
[editline]3rd September 2017[/editline]
In which case I don't hold any sort of "quality barrier" outside of just like, not understanding optimization. I don't know, it just seems easy to me now.
I make all my maps by creating a huge brush and carving away at it with a ball brush , kind of like sculping in a way.
I usually start compiling at the beggining of the month and by the time I get my next paycheck its ready , dont know why I get only 20fps though , the engine sucks probably.
[QUOTE=dannass;52643339]but the segment was so brief that i can't remember which video it was[/QUOTE]
Yep, this was the video (1:30 onward):
[video=youtube;bBFZ1KR8oVE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBFZ1KR8oVE[/video]
It makes me genuinely annoyed at some of the users of this forum.
this forum can be pretty unnecessarily vehement in places. think about the demographic though and you'll see there's no surprise there
good to see he's still doing CS stuff. has he twatted around with beth's creation kit at any point?
Professional's head is... off? Though I've always wondered why Valve haven't used those factions more often in maps that aren't shit. I want to see more Anarchist and Pirates
[QUOTE=Qbe-tex;52644399]Not exactly this but he does have [URL="https://www.youtube.com/user/2kliksphilip"]2kliksphillips[/URL], which is a channel that covers more games and other subjecs (related to games though usually, and he has mentioned he expects will eventually surpass 3kliksphillips) and [URL="https://www.youtube.com/user/kliksphilip"]kliksphillps[/URL], which is just a vlog channel. He also has fartmaster and god knows how many more.[/QUOTE]
[Media]
[url]https://youtu.be/6NG1T32alv8[/url][/media]
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