Walmart Security Almost Stabbed During Scuffle With Thief - General

[QUOTE=Covalent;45864679]Actually, they're allowed to make a citizens arrest if they can. They can call the cops and then proceed to make a citizens arrest, and hold them until a 'peace' officer arrives. However in dangerous situations like this, I wouldn't risk it for minimum wage. Just record the vehicle license plate, and have footage of him on camera. Police could track down the tail plate, find a home, and go arrest him for theft.[/QUOTE] I recall reading that as a regular associate you aren't supposed to confront shoplifters but AP associates are allowed to hold them from leaving the property but aren't required to. At any rate I'm glad they did catch this guy, I don't care about the shoplifting but attempted murder over petty theft is insanely retarded.

[QUOTE=Episode;45865897]They're all animals, one dude attempting to stab someone just so they can get away with stealing shit from a store and 2 morons potentially risking their lives for their low paying position over small merchandise.[/QUOTE] I'm sure they didn't know they where going to have a knife pulled on them, calling them morons is pretty dumb.

How fucking stupid do you have to be to turn petty theft into assault with a deadly weapon/attempted murder?

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45866349]I'm sure they didn't know they where going to have a knife pulled on them, calling them morons is pretty dumb.[/QUOTE] It's called a risk for a reason. For all they knew, he could of had a knife. I mean what do you do? "Oh he might not have a knife, he's only committing a serious crime"

[QUOTE=Episode;45867085]It's called a risk for a reason. For all they knew, he could of had a knife. I mean what do you do? "Oh he might not have a knife, he's only committing a serious crime"[/QUOTE] Part of their job is to apprehend people. It's their job, what you see (minus the knife and the blood) routinely happens all over the US at major retailers. Just google apprehension videos.

Dying for minimum wage lol.

[QUOTE=endorphinsam;45865282]let me break it down for you into easy to understand chunks because you clearly don't understand: if you do something illegal, rule enforcers will come to collect you. if you run, they will try their hardest to hold you in position. [b]if you fucking pull out a knife and try to stab them,[/b] you're going to get slammed onto the ground and break your nose. [editline]sd[/editline] if he didn't run away, then try to resist, then pull out a knife and try to kill them, he would be in a far better position than he was at the end of the video. how are you defending him?[/QUOTE] I only see what happened on the video, so i could be totally off. The only thing I seen in this video video is two guys using excessive force on a guy, then after being punched in the face, he decided to use a knife as self defense. First, loss prevention are not law enforcement, they're actually private citizens. Secondly, I highly doubt Walmart lets their employees use physical acts of violence to detain a person.

[QUOTE=veridiux;45867974]I only see what happened on the video, so i could be totally off. The only thing I seen in this video video is two guys using excessive force on a guy, then after being punched in the face, he decided to use a knife as self defense. First, loss prevention are not law enforcement, they're actually private citizens. Secondly, I highly doubt Walmart lets their employees use physical acts of violence to detain a person.[/QUOTE] Theyre likely well within their rights regarding force. The guy was on private property and stealing. They werent even using violence until he attempted to bite someone. Walmart will probably fire them though.

camera man shouting "Someone call the police" Mother fucker you're on a cell phone.

I'm a Loss Prevention guy. I don't know or care about the circumstances leading up to this but the moment he pulled a knife and tried to stab that guy he deserved everything he got plus some. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=l337k1ll4;45866628]How fucking stupid do you have to be to turn petty theft into assault with a deadly weapon/attempted murder?[/QUOTE] That's the part that always fucking baffles me. You hear stories like that from people about LP being stabbed or shot or dragged by cars and shit and I just don't get it. 9 times out of 10 shoplifters will face incredibly trivial charges and be back on the street within a month or two. Unless you're involved in Organized Retail Crime it's not a 'big deal' but yet these fucking idiots decide instead of calmy walking back to the store, having the police take them back, write them a citation and than pay back what they stole via Civil Demand and go home that same night they decide to kill some guy doing his job over petty theft. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] Also most people don't know anything about Loss Prevention and what they do. It's probably important to know too that every single company and State has different rules, policies and laws regarding what LP can and can't do.

[QUOTE=Robman8908;45864649]Looks like a boxcutter... based on the moment when the dumb fuck filming decided to go and pick it up. Wal-Mart employees are told multiple times never to interfere with a thief. If they think someone is stealing, they have to call the police and do nothing else. Those two guys, if they really are loss-prevention, will be fired. Guarantee it.[/QUOTE] Nah dood you're talkin out of your ass here. AP and Loss Prevention doods aren't typical walmart employees. If a Sales Associate, like some jackoff in electronics, sees someone shove some printer ink in his pocket, then all he can do is record the time and location of when and where it happened. If an AP guy sees it happen, he can stalk him and the second the jackass walks out the store, he can detain him. If the guy resists, he has every right to bend his elbow Steven-Seagal backwards till he stops. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Covalent;45864679]Actually, they're allowed to make a citizens arrest if they can. They can call the cops and then proceed to make a citizens arrest, and hold them until a 'peace' officer arrives. However in dangerous situations like this, I wouldn't risk it for minimum wage. Just record the vehicle license plate, and have footage of him on camera. Police could track down the tail plate, find a home, and go arrest him for theft.[/QUOTE] You're also talking out of your ass. AP bros are the highest paid people in Walmart stores. Most of the lower end guys have higher pay grades than salaried managers do. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ZeFruitNazi;45865839]terrible law enforcement wannabe's. they needlessly escalated the situation and handled it terribly. it's not their job to pretend to be police and get nitty and gritty with people, they're not trained for it and this is what happens when they take matters into their own hands: everybody loses.[/QUOTE] Most AP bros are either former cops, have an arraignment where they work part time at walmart when they're not an actual cop, or former military. They're trained for apprehension and their job literally is apprehension. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] It's like most of you learned about shoplifting and corporate asset protection off some BS reddit post.

Generally LP/AP guys are paid well. Case and Point: I literally bought a $2,500 PC tonight. And another thing people don't realize because they see one or two videos of BAD apprehensions is that maybe 98% (Depending on where you live and store) go well. Usually you stop them without a shadow of a doubt that they infact committed theft, introduce yourself and ask them to come talk to you in the store. Sometimes they argue but usually they do end up coming back, getting slapped with civil demand (pay back what they stole) and unless they're guilty of stealing over a certain price point they don't get prosecuted and are cut loose with a trespassing notice or given to the Police who finger print them, cite them and let them go. That last 2% go bad where they keep walking or run in which case MOST of the time you chase/follow them at a distance, tell the police where they're running to and they get caught. The worst case scenarios are incredibly rare. Like weapons, fist fights and so forth. Almost never happen and usually if they do you have two options: 1. Let them go which is preferred. If you can make that choice. 2. Fight back because you have no choice. Like in the video. It looked like in the video he ran or kept walking (Which makes his crime robbery now. Strong armed robbery if he pushed past the LP guys) and they tried to stop him in the parking lot. Maybe he was trying to get in a car? Who knows. I don't but no matter what the LP guy does I don't think whipping out a knife and stabbing him is the appropriate fucking response. The LP guys were not beating him while he laid in a fetal position screaming for help. He was a criminal actively resisting the LP after committing a crime and if the LP guys had to get rough with him to hold him there until the Police showed up than the Police will sort it out later, it was probably justified. And before anyone goes and points out that the shoplifter was yelling "I can't breath" it's like the default response shoplifters and criminals use to try to get out of a hold. They usually teach cops to ignore it. If they can talk they can breath and sometimes they even tell the cop to say "I don't care" to throw the guy off and considering that was the LP guy's response I'm going to go out there and say he was a cop once.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45868957]Nah dood you're talkin out of your ass here. AP and Loss Prevention doods aren't typical walmart employees. [B]If a Sales Associate, like some jackoff in electronics[/B][/QUOTE] Hey now I happen to be one of those jackoffs in electronics and that's hurtful. Also I'm thankful for the AP guys we got, but goddamn they got their work cut out for them in our area :v:

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45868957] Most AP bros are either former cops, have an arraignment where they work part time at walmart when they're not an actual cop, or former military. They're trained for apprehension and their job literally is apprehension. [/QUOTE] i think it's great that former military/cops get work as loss prevention and i'm not trying to undermine the work that they do but in this specific case, the guys did a really bad job.

[QUOTE=ZeFruitNazi;45869025]i think it's great that former military/cops get work as loss prevention and i'm not trying to undermine the work that they do but in this specific case, the guys did a really bad job.[/QUOTE] Easy to say as an observer and in hindsight but if you were the one who had to stop him and given the circumstances I doubt you'd preform much better under that stress. Apprehensions are tense and stressful when they go well much less when the guy tries to stab you. And from a legal point of view they didn't do anything wrong.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;45869034]Easy to say as an observer and in hindsight but if you were the one who had to stop him and given the circumstances I doubt you'd preform much better under that stress. Apprehensions are tense and stressful when they go well much less when the guy tries to stab you. And from a legal point of view they didn't do anything wrong.[/QUOTE] as an explorer with my local pd, i understand. i understand cops have it hella hard when dealing with resisting suspects, and i gotta admit i don't have any experience with loss prevention so i don't know what they can and can't do or even what they should do. whenever i see cops restrain a suspect, i'm okay with it because i understand that they have the knowledge and training in how to do that, but with these guys it feels like they gave the guy a busted head and caused a lot more problems that could've been avoided but again i don't know anything about this job so don't take my opinions for much

It's hard to have sympathy for someone stupid enough to shoplift.

[QUOTE=ZeFruitNazi;45869025]i think it's great that former military/cops get work as loss prevention and i'm not trying to undermine the work that they do but in this specific case, the guys did a really bad job.[/QUOTE] How so? They were trying to apprehend the guy, he resisted, he pulled a blade, they kicked his ass for it without themselves being injured. Seems like they did a superb job to me. One thing you need to keep in mind is that shit that gets stolen from a walmart store isn't a victim-less crime. When someone steals a TV or some shit, Walmart the Megacorp doesn't lose $800, the employees at that store lose $800 out of their bonus pool for that quarter; Every quarter, each individual walmart store is alloted a budget for events and accidents and theft and such and such and such. At the end of the quarter, what ever is left is given to the employees at that store as a bonus. So the more shit that gets stolen;the less of a bonus walmart employees get. Thats why AP doods try so hard, or at least they should try so hard, to stop shoplifters. To give an example, the AP guys at my store kick fuckin' ass and have stopped like 14 grand in theft this quarter. Everyone in my store is getting between a $300-$500 bonus because of it.

I'm pretty sure the shoplifter didn't suffer any serious injuries. To be entirely fair in the eyes of the law, they could have killed him and still likely have been legally just in doing so. That guy tried to stab him, he could have been killed so when they responded, it was pure self defense and considering that the shoplifter employed what could be considered deadly force than if the LP guy had seriously injured or killed the shoplifter it was the shoplifters own damn fault for instigating it by trying to stab a person attempting to stop him from committing a crime. Naturally I'm not advocating LP go out and kill shoplifters for throwing punches. I think they handled it as well as they could and I'm glad everyone walked out of that situation. Just trying to put it in perspective. If those LP guys were cops they probably would've shot him.

wow i am dumb i forgot the guy tried to stab them never mind forget what i said before

[QUOTE=ZeFruitNazi;45869082]as an explorer with my local pd, i understand. i understand cops have it hella hard when dealing with resisting suspects, and i gotta admit i don't have any experience with loss prevention so i don't know what they can and can't do or even what they should do. whenever i see cops restrain a suspect, i'm okay with it because i understand that they have the knowledge and training in how to do that, but with these guys it feels like they gave the guy a busted head and caused a lot more problems that could've been avoided but again i don't know anything about this job so don't take my opinions for much[/QUOTE] What you have to keep in mind is that AP guys face a lot of the same dangers that cops face, but they don't get to carry all of the tools that cops get too. In a walmart in Pensacola, Florida, a APbro was stopping guy a guy walking out the door with a case a beer, the shoplifter pulled a handgun out, shot the dood in the head, and ran out of the store. Shit like that is why AP guys don't fuck around. The Walmart parking lot is still Walmart property; they were well within their right with everything they did.

My old Regional LP boss was stabbed. He chased a guy across a highway and when he reached the otherside the shoplifter stabbed him through the chest with his car key. He was hospitalized for a few months and if the key had gone just a little deeper his heart would have been punctured and he would have died. My supervisor had a knife pulled on him at Sears. Unfortunately he got away but no one was hurt, they let him go and he ended up tumbling down a steep ass gravel hill like in Lone Survivor and the Police lost him in the woods. I hate saying "LP is a dangerous job" because people like to laugh and make it sound like I'm a Mall Cop who takes his job too seriously but there is a real danger involved in this job. Honestly, I just hate people getting away with theft. You have no idea who you're stopping during an apprehension. They could be on parole, a felon, have warrants, just committed a serious crime elsewhere or be under the influence of drugs or alcohol. My supervisor once apprehended a guy who had an outstanding warrant for [i]murder[/i]. Strangely enough he was very calm, polite and sat in the office until the police came despite being twice the size of my supervisor.

I'm just going to apologize for my earlier posts in this thread. I was misinformed... sorry.

[QUOTE=Friendly;45865319]Agree, and law enforcement would do a lot worse than slam your head into the floor if you pulled a knife on them.[/QUOTE] This kind of loss prevention is fucking dumb, if you go after people who steal from your shop there is a high chance the person going after them might get shot/stabbed. That's why you just let them go and wait until the cops arrive and give them all the info on what happened. I'd never want these guys jobs in a million years because I know one day I will get a bat to the head from some wacko who stole an mp3 player once I make it to his truck.

While these guys do work at WalMart, why is unacceptable for employees to defend company property? If I own something and I am selling it, I should be able to do whatever is necessary to defend my property. This kid wasn't stealing a loaf of bread. I have absolutely zero sympathy for him.

[QUOTE=Korova;45874457]While these guys do work at WalMart, why is unacceptable for employees to defend company property? If I own something and I am selling it, I should be able to do whatever is necessary to defend my property. This kid wasn't stealing a loaf of bread. I have absolutely zero sympathy for him.[/QUOTE] Walmart takes advantages of these employees, they own NOTHING inside the store and one of the sole reasons they work there is to get the companies money and live. I really couldn't give two shits of someone steals 6 flat screen tv's, four laptops and a patio set while I'm on the clock, Id tell my manager then laugh my ass off as I watch the guy run out the door with it. They have no unions, no overtime, no benefits (or they try to avoid giving them out by replacing full time with two part time positions). They try to extract as much profit as possible from the general public to increase quarterly profits and couldn't give two shits about literally anyone who works on the retail floor. If we're talking about money here did you know some assistant managers / assistant HR get paid the same as a cashier or cart pusher? Which is basically minimum wage. For every master card application the store gets at the cash register Walmart gets paid ~ $470.00 while the cashier gets around $4 as an incentive to bug the living shit out of every customer. When you see the big picture, and then realize they have this poor man who gets paid close to minimum wage risking his safety and life for what? So they can decrease store shrink and increase their quarterly profits by a fraction of a percent? Fuck that and fuck the company, if they want to go after the thugs who shoplift from the store they better get management or even someone from corporate to chase their ass out the door wanting that $5 DVD back. If it was a family run business, convenience store etc I would feel differently but seriously when it comes to big corporations like this, suck it up and write it off.

I can't speak for Wal-Mart because I never have and likely never will work for them. Maybe Wal-Mart is the exception because they've always been bad about treating their employees well and being greedy fucks. But most companies DO suffer from theft internal/external and it does affect the business as a whole and the employees. Also he almost definitely got fired after this thing, I don't see anyway this video would get posed online and he keep his job. As far as Loss Prevention not having investment in the company. It's not always true. At Best Buy it used to really piss me off that people stole from [i]me[/i] I felt and that shrink really did affect me and it did hurt our business. I ended up leaving Best Buy BECAUSE I couldn't stop them. Best Buy has bullshit no apprehension policies. Also the thing of it too is most LP just like getting apprehensions. They enjoy doing this. It's fun, it's a rush and usually it's ends well. I'd be lying to say I didn't want to do cowboy shit, but I haven't and I don't know if I ever will but I understand the appeal of the job and why people would do it. Generally LP jobs are the best ones in the store if you ask me. You sit around all day, watch cameras, take lunch, shoot the shit and fuck around and when shit goes down you get to be a hero for an hour while you get some shithead shoplifter arrested, or find someones lost phone, or help someone who just passed out. It's like being a retail cop but compared to a real cop LP is a safer job and you get to go to the same place all day and see the same people. Naturally though, if I stop someone and he pulls a knife he gets a free pass and I'd let him go but if he actually attacks me I don't have any choice but to kick his ass. Sometimes [i]you[/i] don't make the decision. Personally though, I handle more internals at my store than anything else. Which negates the threat of violence down to 0% and I still stop shrink. Internals are the biggest loss most companies deal with.

I shall now call this thread "Irrational arguments and justified use of force"

ITT More facepunch users that apparently know more about justified use of force then the people in the situation we're talking about. I'm sure everyones natural reaction when they almost get stabbed is to ask the person politely to not do that. I'm sure we should all just assume everyone has a weapon on them and just not attempt to detain them because they have a weapon. Granted the punching him in the face while he was down was a bit excessive but everything else is perfectly justified for that situation.

[QUOTE=DJWulf;45881024]ITT More facepunch users that apparently know more about justified use of force then the people in the situation we're talking about. I'm sure everyones natural reaction when they almost get stabbed is to ask the person politely to not do that. I'm sure we should all just assume everyone has a weapon on them and just not attempt to detain them because they have a weapon. Granted the punching him in the face while he was down was a bit excessive but everything else is perfectly justified for that situation.[/QUOTE] Well, he bit him. That's why he punched him in the face while he was on the ground. You can even heard him say in the video that he was bitten and that he's bleeding now.