• Cockroach gives birth while being devoured by fire ants
    65 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51104812]Except cockroaches aren't really a vector for diseases like mosquitoes or ticks, and only a few species actually regularly enter human housing.[/QUOTE] The ones that do enter our housing can carry diseases though. Cockroaches are actually very important in nature, they're one of the most efficient waste disposal agents. Doesn't make them any less fucking disgusting tbh. Except for the Gromphadorhina species, the hissing ones, they're cool armoured badasses.
[QUOTE=butre;51104850]yeah if you've got roaches in your house they're usually just trying to find water or get out of the cold. they're not aggressive, they carry no diseases, and they're generally all beneficial to their environment.[/QUOTE] Exactly, and if they [I]are [/I] actually carrying diseases, it's most likely that they caught them from other human beings. Moving on: since the topic question is now becoming "Do insects feel pain?" I feel like posting [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_invertebrates"]this[/URL] here. Personally, never want to kill a bug, ever.
[QUOTE=Aztec;51104828]I never said it was. What are you talking about? Pain induces stress. Stress is a reaction to pain designed to change your behavior. In functionalism, any reaction that occurs which functions the same as another reaction is functionally the same. The same way a calculator, an abacus, and a slide rule are completely different from each other but carry out the same function. Or how 5 syntactically different program methods can functionally perform the exact same task. Saying something "doesn't feel bad" is subjective. Bad is an experience designed to change behavior. If cockroaches didn't feel bad, they would never avoid danger, and they would go extinct. Sorry that my reply to you wasn't as short, simple, and condescending.[/QUOTE] in general, insects don't live long enough for the sensation of pain to be beneficial to their survival. this is why you see bugs missing legs or with their guts hanging out walking around as if nothing is wrong without even a limp. they've done tests on lots of insects and for the most part the only thing they have an adverse reaction to is heat.
Jesus Christ this guy sounds soppier than Mort Goldman
[QUOTE=Aztec;51104828] Saying something "doesn't feel bad" is [b]subjective[/b]. [/QUOTE] This is where the argument goes off the rails with cockroaches, and the majority of species of insects in general, they can't into this "subjective" thing. They physiologically lack functionality to 'experience' anything the same way animals do. I understand where you're coming from, but comparing the suffering that animals are capable of experiencing to reflexes that drive insects on basis that both change apparent behaviour is a stretch, a bit further into abstraction and we find ourselves saying that computer programs that can analyse the integrity of their code are self-aware.
[QUOTE=gudman;51104900]This is where the argument goes off the rails with cockroaches, and the majority of species of insects in general, they can't into this "subjective" thing. They physiologically lack functionality to 'experience' anything the same way animals do. I understand where you're coming from, but comparing the suffering that animals are capable of experiencing to reflexes that drive insects on basis that both change apparent behaviour is a stretch, a bit further into abstraction and we find ourselves saying that computer programs that can analyse the integrity of their code are self-aware.[/QUOTE] Pain is a subjective experience, there is no way to quantify it in any organism be it human or cockroaches and because of that, you can't really make a comment on it because it is not well enough understood. There is an argument to be made based on our lack of understanding of the mechanism of consciousness if complex AI can eventually be self aware given enough complex functions.
FYI this video is a huge spoiler for the ending to Bloodborne: The Old Hunters
Someone tell this guy insects don't feel pain. This is putting a strain on his emotional well-being.
[QUOTE=Aztec;51104916]Pain is a subjective experience, there is no way to quantify it in any organism be it human or cockroaches and because of that, you can't really make a comment on it because it is not well enough understood. There is an argument to be made based on our lack of understanding of the mechanism of consciousness if complex AI can eventually be self aware given enough complex functions.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I might've gone a bit too far with the AI/self-awareness example, but the point I was making is that it all depends on a given definition. When I said that insects are incapable of experiencing "pain [i]as we know it[/i]" I meant suffering, the ability to reflect on lasting effects of damage that requires higher cognitive abilities lacking in insect physiology. They quite literally have no functionality for that, their nervous system isn't developed enough.
[QUOTE=Hogie bear;51104482]He comes off as super pretentious.[/QUOTE] I don't understand how having humility for living things is considered pretentious.
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;51104981]I don't understand how having humility for living things is considered pretentious.[/QUOTE] Feeling bad is one thing, simultaneously getting and feeling bad about a god complex over insects is just trying too hard.
[QUOTE=butre;51104850]yeah if you've got roaches in your house they're usually just trying to find water or get out of the cold. they're not aggressive, they carry no diseases, and they're generally all beneficial to their environment.[/QUOTE] Yea no dood, cockroaches carry all kinds of nasty diseases and bacteria. You do not want cockroaches in your home. The kind in the video looks to be some sort of cave cockroach or something similar, or like a palmetto bug you see in the south, whichyou dont really need to worry about. The kinds you see getting inside, like German and Asian cockroaches are the kind you want to worry about. If what you said was true, then the necessity of pest control for them wouldnt exist. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Aztec;51104828]I never said it was. What are you talking about? Pain induces stress. Stress is a reaction to pain designed to change your behavior. In functionalism, any reaction that occurs which functions the same as another reaction is functionally the same. The same way a calculator, an abacus, and a slide rule are completely different from each other but carry out the same function. Or how 5 syntactically different program methods can functionally perform the exact same task. Saying something "doesn't feel bad" is subjective. Bad is an experience designed to change behavior. If cockroaches didn't feel bad, they would never avoid danger, and they would go extinct. Sorry that my reply to you wasn't as short, simple, and condescending.[/QUOTE] If you want to make the leap in saying stress is the same or similar to pain, then by all means. But again, insects in general do not have complex enough bodies to process things like humans do. When a bug gets fucked up, it knows its fucked up, but it doesnt feel pain. Theres a lot of science behind this, you cant humanize insects like youre trying to do. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51104870]Exactly, and if they [I]are [/I] actually carrying diseases, it's most likely that they caught them from other human beings. [/QUOTE] Well yea, they carry human diseases which is why they are pests and people generally dont want them around.
I one time had to get ready for work in a hurry and left the house after getting out of my car, I couldn't help but to notice something in my shoe and it turns out it was a roach that was half dead That event still gives me the shivers. Fuck roaches.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51105013]Yea no dood, cockroaches carry all kinds of nasty diseases and bacteria. You do not want cockroaches in your home. The kind in the video looks to be some sort of cave cockroach or something similar, or like a palmetto bug you see in the south, whichyou dont really need to worry about. The kinds you see getting inside, like German and Asian cockroaches are the kind you want to worry about. If what you said was true, then the necessity of pest control for them wouldnt exist. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] If you want to make the leap in saying stress is the same or similar to pain, then by all means. But again, insects in general do not have complex enough bodies to process things like humans do. When a bug gets fucked up, it knows its fucked up, but it doesnt feel pain. Theres a lot of science behind this, you cant humanize insects like youre trying to do. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] Well yea, they carry human diseases which is why they are pests and people generally dont want them around.[/QUOTE] the necessity of pest control is because some people are afraid of things with more legs than them. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] asian and german cockroaches are harmless too btw. asian ones come in in search of water and german ones are only a concern if your house is filthy
[QUOTE=butre;51105060]the necessity of pest control is because some people are afraid of things with more legs than them. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] asian and german cockroaches are harmless too btw. asian ones come in in search of water and german ones are only a concern if your house is filthy[/QUOTE] Its also because things like cockroaches and rodents carry disease and damage and ruin billions worth of products every year. So thats a pretty big reason.
[QUOTE=gudman;51104442]Oh, so that's why when you step on a cockroach (or kill them via common poison traps) there's a high chance you'll find their fucking larvae/egg sacks sticking out of them, it's automatic. Amazing, if fucking disgusting, survival mechanism.[/QUOTE] I've always been told that if a cockroach enters your home and you fatally injure it, make sure to find the corpse and destroy it, as you can otherwise cause an infestation
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51105071]Its also because things like cockroaches and rodents carry disease and damage and ruin billions worth of products every year. So thats a pretty big reason.[/QUOTE] the only damage they do is from people not wanting to eat something an icky bug has touched. rodents are another issue entirely. mice are generally harmless but rats carry all kinds of diseases.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51105013] If you want to make the leap in saying stress is the same or similar to pain, then by all means. But again, insects in general do not have complex enough bodies to process things like humans do. When a bug gets fucked up, it knows its fucked up, but it doesnt feel pain. Theres a lot of science behind this, you cant humanize insects like youre trying to do.[/QUOTE] "Stress isn't the same as pain" "I never said it was" "haha yeah okay buddy but... Stress isn't the same as pain ;)" I get the sense that you are just selectively deaf and you don't actually read people's posts. I'm not humanizing insects, I'm expressing the fact that invertebrate pain is still an issue being debated today and I'm pointing to a current field of biology/psychology/philosophy that directly talks about this all the time. You're actually the one that is humanizing insects by equating human reactions to stimuli to other forms of life.
[QUOTE=butre;51105134]the only damage they do is from people not wanting to eat something an icky bug has touched. rodents are another issue entirely. mice are generally harmless but rats carry all kinds of diseases.[/QUOTE] roaches are vectors for disease according to CDC.
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;51104981]I don't understand how having humility for living things is considered pretentious.[/QUOTE] Yeah, hes really humble about those roach's gruesome death which he recorded and posted on youtube with a clickbait thumbnail. Not that I think the roach minds, but humility isn't the word i would have used.
[QUOTE=butre;51105134]the only damage they do is from people not wanting to eat something an icky bug has touched. rodents are another issue entirely. mice are generally harmless but rats carry all kinds of diseases.[/QUOTE] But youre wrong dood, cockroaches carry diseases and can easily spread them. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Aztec;51105137]"Stress isn't the same as pain" "I never said it was" "haha yeah okay buddy but... Stress isn't the same as pain ;)" I get the sense that you are just selectively deaf and you don't actually read people's posts. I'm not humanizing insects, I'm expressing the fact that invertebrate pain is still an issue being debated today and I'm pointing to a current field of biology/psychology/philosophy that directly talks about this all the time. You're actually the one that is humanizing insects by equating human reactions to stimuli to other forms of life.[/QUOTE] Im reading your posts and im saying theyre nonsensical. At this point, we'll just agree to disagree.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51105570]But youre wrong dood, cockroaches carry diseases and can easily spread them. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] Im reading your posts and im saying theyre nonsensical. At this point, we'll just agree to disagree.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what exactly you disagree with because you never actually address the content of my posts, you just say a vague disconnected statement about how you feel about my posts.
Why is this in my suggested videos? I have never, in all my time on YouTube, searched for anything regarding cockroaches or fire ants.
I hate all bugs, and wish they were all dead, but god damn, this was fucked up.
That was really fascinating to watch. Creeped me out as I was not expecting that.
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51104417]Poor cockroach mama. :cry:[/QUOTE] Nah Fuck cockroaches
[QUOTE=gudman;51104974]Yeah, I might've gone a bit too far with the AI/self-awareness example, but the point I was making is that it all depends on a given definition. When I said that insects are incapable of experiencing "pain [i]as we know it[/i]" I meant suffering, the ability to reflect on lasting effects of damage that requires higher cognitive abilities lacking in insect physiology. They quite literally have no functionality for that, their nervous system isn't developed enough.[/QUOTE] We can only really quantify pain and suffering by the actions and reactions of the creature. Beyond that we have no way of knowing what the creature is experiencing. They definitely experience pain, but suffering, the emotional interpretation of pain, is a more tricky subject. Advanced aliens might argue that human suffering is unimportant because we lack the capability to experience what they would call "true suffering". In the end it comes down to human empathy. Insect suffering is functionally meaningless to us, but being alarmed when we see other creatures reacting with distress to our actions is very helpful considering us living in a society.
[QUOTE=Talishmar;51107228]We can only really quantify pain and suffering by the actions and reactions of the creature. Beyond that we have no way of knowing what the creature is experiencing. They definitely experience pain, but suffering, the emotional interpretation of pain, is a more tricky subject. Advanced aliens might argue that human suffering is unimportant because we lack the capability to experience what they would call "true suffering". In the end it comes down to human empathy. Insect suffering is functionally meaningless to us, but being alarmed when we see other creatures reacting with distress to our actions is very helpful considering us living in a society.[/QUOTE] Well, yeah, I've no arguments against that, my entire point was that insects don't suffer and don't process the pain the way we do. Doesn't mean one [i]shouldn't[/i] be empathetic towards them, but I feel that reacting to it the way the author of the video (and weirdos in the comments) does is a bit too much.
[QUOTE=butre;51105134]the only damage they do is from people not wanting to eat something an icky bug has touched. rodents are another issue entirely. mice are generally harmless but rats carry all kinds of diseases.[/QUOTE] Roach allergies exist. [quote=Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America]Household Pests Non-stinging and non-biting insects can also cause allergic reactions, particularly cockroaches and insect-like dust mites. These two insects may be the most common cause of year-round allergy and asthma. Unlike a cockroach, a dust mite is too small to see with the naked eye. The cockroach and dust mite’s waste and body cause allergic reactions. They also can trigger asthma symptoms and asthma attacks.[/quote] [url]http://www.aafa.org/page/insect-allergy.aspx[/url] Icky bug contributes to asthma and asthma attacks. Asthma attacks are dangerous and sometimes fatal. Therefore, icky bug is dangerous and sometimes fatal. They are pests. Yeah fuck roaches.
Oh Christ, what a pretentious pile of shit... Did this guy really have to try tying this up into some "man is not qualified to play god!" horseshit? They're fucking cockroaches. They're vectors of disease the world over. Yeah, it's pretty morbid, but so fucking what? You want a thesis for this little "experiment"? How's this: "Nature does not give one single fuck."
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