How to fix your posture by doing a 2 minute exercise twice a day. - General

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561558]I'm just stating facts, not opinions, but freely available information. Anyway, modern chiropractors adopt many practices stolen from physical therapy, so it is possible to see benefits by visiting a chiropractor. But those practices aren't chirapractic, it's physical therapy. However, [B]real[/B] chiropractic, the core practices and beliefs, is simply false. It's in the same category as herbalism, homeopathy, magnetic healing, copper bracelets and other such charlatanism. Now to be fair, I'm sure some chiropractors genuinely believe that they can treat all sorts of ailments magically by pushing on your joints and don't actually do it with the intent of lining their coffers, but that doesn't add any validity to the pseudoscientific practice.[/QUOTE] you're really annoying and for the most part chiropractors are physical therapists

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561577]There's a certain futility in trying to explain anything to you because you don't care, don't want to hear it, and won't bother to give anything the time of day because you're the arbiter of reasonable treatment, no one else can be you are. [/QUOTE] he is going through the exact same thought patterns as people who hold the bible as absolute truth.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561558]I'm just stating facts, not opinions, but freely available information. Anyway, modern chiropractors adopt many practices stolen from physical therapy, so it is possible to see benefits by visiting a chiropractor. But those practices aren't chirapractic, it's physical therapy. However, [B]real[/B] chiropractic, the core practices and beliefs, is simply false. It's in the same category as herbalism, homeopathy, magnetic healing, copper bracelets and other such charlatanism. Now to be fair, I'm sure some chiropractors genuinely believe that they can treat all sorts of ailments magically by pushing on your joints and don't actually do it with the intent of lining their coffers, but that doesn't add any validity to the pseudoscientific practice.[/QUOTE] So the video posted on the last page where the boy with his severe back issue who couldn't even stand up had his condition improved, if not cured by chiropractic methods was what, bullshit? What do you call it? Physical therapy?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561577]There's a certain futility in trying to explain anything to you because you don't care, don't want to hear it, and won't bother to give anything the time of day because you're the arbiter of reasonable treatment, no one else can be you are. In all my time with chiropractors, the only thing they ever claimed to be able to even HELP with, not cure, HELP with, is back pain. They never talk about larger benefits, they never did any of that sort of thing. They talked about "We can relieve some tension that's built up on your l4 because of the way this vertebrae is locked into the other one" which, he could verify with fucking xrays he'd had taken 20 minutes prior. Chiropractic therapy in Canada, vetted by our healthcare specialists who are a hell of a lot smarter than you, is considered real treatment. You don't hold more authority than my government on the topic, and I wouldn't really trust you to be better informed, so what do you have for me that's persuasive besides your fucking rhetoric?[/QUOTE] Maybe in Canada, you have some sort of treatment system with the name chiropractic which isn't actually chiropractic then? In the USA, what we call chiropractic is pseudoscience.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561588]Maybe in Canada, you have some sort of treatment system with the name chiropractic which isn't actually chiropractic then? In the USA, what we call chiropractic is pseudoscience.[/QUOTE] Maybe you just don't have a clue what you're talking about in regards to this topic as it seems you're purely informed by scams and nonsense and not the actual field of work. I can't speak for American care in that field, all I can do is speak of my experiences, and my dads experiences in Canada with Chiropractic medicine. It works, it's real, it doesn't cure anything, it just simply helps with back pain via adjustments of the spine. It's not like he's cranking on joints or anything of the sort. Insurance companies, who don't pay for anything they don't have to, and certainly don't pay for any bullshit, pay for chiropractic therapy. Insurance companies. The cheapest, and most excruciatingly careful people that exist, don't agree with you.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561622]Maybe you just don't have a clue what you're talking about in regards to this topic as it seems you're purely informed by scams and nonsense and not the actual field of work. I can't speak for American care in that field, all I can do is speak of my experiences, and my dads experiences in Canada with Chiropractic medicine. It works, it's real, it doesn't cure anything, it just simply helps with back pain via adjustments of the spine. It's not like he's cranking on joints or anything of the sort. Insurance companies, who don't pay for anything they don't have to, and certainly don't pay for any bullshit, pay for chiropractic therapy. Insurance companies. The cheapest, and most excruciatingly careful people that exist, don't agree with you.[/QUOTE] A chiropractor who doesn't believe in, or perform procedures related to chiropractic isn't a chiropractor, they're a physical therapist. [QUOTE]informed by scams[/QUOTE] Which is what real chiropractic is. [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50561585]he is going through the exact same thought patterns as people who hold the bible as absolute truth.[/QUOTE] I believe in the bible as much as chiropractic. Both have the same amount of verifiable evidence and science backing it up which is to say none. [QUOTE=Aetna;50561587]So the video posted on the last page where the boy with his severe back issue who couldn't even stand up had his condition improved, if not cured by chiropractic methods was what, bullshit? What do you call it? Physical therapy?[/QUOTE] I can easily find a hundred videos of priests removing demons from people. That's not evidence of truth. [QUOTE]what do you have for me that's persuasive besides your fucking rhetoric[/QUOTE] Try googling "what is chiropractic" for starters. If you can last 5 minutes and still think chiropractic is real, then I'm not sure what to tell you. You can start here [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism[/url]

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561588]Maybe in Canada, you have some sort of treatment system with the name chiropractic which isn't actually chiropractic then? In the USA, what we call chiropractic is pseudoscience. [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] Lol, I believe in the bible as much as chiropractic. Both have the same amount of evidence and science backing it up which is to say none. I can easily find a hundred videos of priests removing demons from people. That's not evidence of truth. Try googling "what is chiropractic" for starters. If you can last 5 minutes and still think chiropractic is real, then I'm not sure what to tell you. You can start here [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism[/url][/QUOTE] Nobody gives a shit what you think of chiropractors. This isn't even [i]about[/i] chiropractors. Charles Manson could have invented this exercise for all I care and I'd still do it if it worked. You don't need to come into a thread about helping people heal their [i]real[/i] problems using a [i]real[/i] exercise that works and derail it arguing about the history of pseudoscience.

Shitposter of the year award goes to... :goodjob:

What a silly argument lol. Chiropractics vary widely in regards to practices and methodology, from those who employ false promises to make a profit to businesses that actually have licensed physical therapists and physicians who simply decided to take up the banner of chiropractics. It's like saying that just because some doctors are shitty and try to prescribe medication that is unnecessary or not appropriate for the patient, that no one should ever go to the doctor ever. You're saying his anecdotes are not evidence, but neither are you convincing me that all chiropractics are faith-based or reliant on old wives tales. As medical understanding develops, so do more actual licensed physicians enter the work force in different areas of medicine. Just because the label of chiropractics is muddied by past controversy because of "cure-all" beliefs, it doesn't immediately negate the methodology of every single chiropractic out there. Granted, it's VERY difficult to find a good one who actually knows the appropriate treatment and procedure for different ailments, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] In other news, this exercise made my arms sore because I'm tiny and have no muscle, but it did feel pretty good afterwards. Nothing super strenuous about it.

From doing it I think the biggest thing this set of exercises does is that you're basically forcing yourself to stand up straight. [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] Which is what helps with overall posture.

[QUOTE=Pascall;50561640]What a silly argument lol. Chiropractics vary widely in regards to practices and methodology, from those who employ false promises to make a profit to businesses that actually have licensed physical therapists and physicians who simply decided to take up the banner of chiropractics. It's like saying that just because some doctors are shitty and try to prescribe medication that is unnecessary or not appropriate for the patient, that no one should ever go to the doctor ever. You're saying his anecdotes are not evidence, but neither are you convincing me that all chiropractics are faith-based or reliant on old wives tales. As medical understanding develops, so do more actual licensed physicians enter the work force in different areas of medicine. Just because the label of chiropractics is muddied by past controversy because of "cure-all" beliefs, it doesn't immediately negate the methodology of every single chiropractic out there. Granted, it's VERY difficult to find a good one who actually knows the appropriate treatment and procedure for different ailments, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] In other news, this exercise made my arms sore because I'm tiny and have no muscle, but it did feel pretty good afterwards. Nothing super strenuous about it.[/QUOTE] Listen, just because chiropractors can take practices from actual medicine like physical therapy, does not make chiropractic valid. Understand? That isn't a valid argument. It's like saying that cases in which homeopathic 'doctors' who might recommend taking advil for a headache somehow gives validity to homeopathy. It is a proven, verified fact that the actual practices and beliefs of chiropractic are pseudoscience no matter how much it's diluted by actual medicine which as physical therapy. What is the reason to visit a chiropractor because of the possibility that they also utilize physical therapy, which is proven to mostly work, when you could just go right to an actual physical therapist? Especially taking into account that chiropractors generally cost more money and you might have to waste time, listen to, or get injured or by pseudoscientific, unverified, unproven 'treatments'? Read more [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism[/url] Chiropractic is to physical therapy, as homeopathy is to medication.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561688] What is the reason to visit a chiropractor because of the possibility that they also utilize physical therapy, which is proven to mostly work, when you could just go right to an actual physical therapist? Especially taking into account that chiropractors generally cost more money and you might have to suffer through listening to them try to explain their pseudoscientific 'treatments'? [/QUOTE] Honestly, you've had your fingers in your ears shouting "LALALALALALALALALAL" since the argument began. It's your way or the highway here, there's no convincing you of anything. As an actual person who has vastly more experience with something than yourself, my experiences are valid in describing to you that all the various chiropractors(6) have never said, done, or thought, a single thing like you claim they have to. They don't believe that kind of shit. Physical therapy and chiro are different treatments that deal with similar things. Physical therapy in my experience was a form of deep motion and all about maximizing movement on my end. Chiropractic therapy in my experience was about relieving spine related tension. Now, you can believe that your definition is the definition, and we're all a bunch of vaccine denying homeopathic fucktards, as you are free to do. Or you could have a more mature thought, and realize you don't know everything about this subject enough to full on and outright dismiss everything and everyone that isn't you.

why are you so deadset on pseudoscience and real science and shitting all over everyone that believes you sound insanely concentrated on proving that chiropractors are all malicious scheming scammers, you're even going after the sarcastic/exaggerated jokes and people not even related to your craziness that's rapidly derailing the thread and what kind of average american uses 'charlatans' on the internet

It's interesting because the people covering their ears and going "lalalala" are the ones who insist that pseudo-scientific, unproven, alternative medicine such as chiropractic can treat their ailments. [QUOTE=RikohZX;50561723]why are you so deadset on pseudoscience and real science and shitting all over everyone that believes you sound insanely concentrated on proving that chiropractors are all malicious scheming scammers, you're even going after the sarcastic/exaggerated jokes and people not even related to your craziness that's rapidly derailing the thread and what kind of average american uses 'charlatans' on the internet[/QUOTE] Not buying into proven pseudoscience doesn't make one crazy. Also I clearly stated that not all chiropractors are malicious and that plenty of them truly believe that chiropractic actually works (just like any pseudoscientific alternative medicine has genuine believers)

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561728]It's interesting because the people covering their ears and going "lalalala" are the ones who insist that pseudo-scientific, unproven, alternative medicine such as chiropractic can treat their ailments.[/QUOTE] *Has treated their ailments* before *Ailments meaning specifically back pain But, no amount of specifics or reasoning actually matters to you.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561625]Lol, I believe in the bible as much as chiropractic. Both have the same amount of evidence and science backing it up which is to say none.[/QUOTE] you misunderstand my post. i am saying you're treating science, which is a methodology, as holding dogmatic truths and refusing to entertain any ideas that go against what you hold as absolute scientific truths (even when, in this instance, there is some evidence which points to chiropractic methods as actually being a valid form of pain relief for certain spine and back problems). it is more reminiscent of someone bragging about how their holy book is absolute truth than someone who is actually looking to advance knowledge

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561736]*Has treated their ailments* before *Ailments meaning specifically back pain But, no amount of specifics or reasoning actually matters to you.[/QUOTE] The only reasoning that matters to me in this context is of the scientific sort, which unfortunately is not supportive of chiropratic..

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561751]The only reasoning that matters to me in this context is of the scientific sort, which unfortunately is not supportive of chiropratic..[/QUOTE] Pray tell then why Insurance Companies and at least the Canadian government back it if there's no scientific proof at all?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561736]*Has treated their ailments* before *Ailments meaning specifically back pain But, no amount of specifics or reasoning actually matters to you.[/QUOTE] Literally this! HumanAbyss had back pain. He visited a chiropractor who worked his practice/voodo/magic/pseudoscience/homeopathic whatever, but hey, it fucking [b]worked[/b] so who cares? Why does this bother you so much, Mr. Iknoweverythingaboutsciencebecauseofawikipediaarticle?

you can actually get chiropractic on the NHS in the UK, because it is effective in treating lower back problems

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561751]The only reasoning that matters to me in this context is of the scientific sort, which unfortunately is not supportive of chiropratic..[/QUOTE] You're basing all your views off of DD Palmer. Not off of modern chiropractic practices as they're done in my country. So yes, you're not the expert, you don't know everything, your information isn't the "Be all end all" of information on the topic as people who's lives specialize in figuring out what kind of care is effective, cost wise and health wise, have decided you're view on this subject is wrong. Insurance companies do not make decisions like that lightly. Governments do not do so lightly. They have looked into what modern chiropractic medicine in Canada is, and what it means, and they've decided that despite Crimson Chin disagreeing with them, that they made the right decision. How will they ever live with themselves after disagreeing with you and your wealth of medical information gleaned from the most trustworthy and believable of all websites, wikipedia. I can't imagine why they didn't listen to you instead.

[QUOTE=Aetna;50561766]Literally this! HumanAbyss had back pain. He visited a chiropractor who worked his practice/voodo/magic/pseudoscience/homeopathic whatever, but hey, it fucking [b]worked[/b] so who cares? Why does this bother you so much, Mr. Iknoweverythingaboutsciencebecauseofawikipediaarticle?[/QUOTE] it's not even a case of placebo, because it has applications in treating back-pain through manual therapy anything more than that is unsupported, but the evidence suggests it is effective in treating some back pain

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50561741]you misunderstand my post. i am saying you're treating science, which is a methodology, as holding dogmatic truths and refusing to entertain any ideas that go against what you hold as absolute scientific truths (even when, in this instance, there is some evidence which points to chiropractic methods as actually being a valid form of pain relief for certain spine and back problems). it is more reminiscent of someone bragging about how their holy book is absolute truth than someone who is actually looking to advance knowledge[/QUOTE] Not even remotely accurate. I do not accept chiropractic because the science is not there or the science points to it being false. If the science was there, or if there was not overwhelming negative evidence, I'd gladly accept chiropractic, since it would naturally no longer be pseudoscience. That isn't being dogmatic, that is basic rationality.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561783]Not even remotely accurate. I do not accept chiropractic because the science is not there or the science points to it being false. If the science was there, or if there was not overwhelming negative evidence, I'd gladly accept chiropractic, since it would naturally no longer be pseudoscience. That isn't being dogmatic, that is basic rationality.[/QUOTE] The NHS and Canada both offer it. Insurance companies cover it. Yes, you're wrong. Get over it.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561751]The only reasoning that matters to me in this context is of the scientific sort, which unfortunately is not supportive of chiropratic..[/QUOTE] the funny thing is you're not using scientific reasoning, you're using other people's use of scientific reasoning and treating it as truth. someone who was using scientific reasoning would look at evidence presented in this thread and perform additional research.

The one thing I know about insurance companies, as I work for them, is that they do not EVER make a decision lightly. They did not decide to cover chiropractic therapy "Just because". They did so for a reason as evidenced by statistics, as everything they do is evidenced in statistics. And as the country with the literal best insurance infrastructure and laws after the UK itself, I would hazard a guess, they know more than you do.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561773]You're basing all your views off of DD Palmer. Not off of modern chiropractic practices as they're done in my country.[/QUOTE] Which isn't chiropractic, it's physical therapy. Have you clicked and read this [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism"]link[/URL]? [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561787]The NHS and Canada both offer it. Insurance companies cover it. Yes, you're wrong. Get over it.[/QUOTE] The science is wrong? [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50561792]the funny thing is you're not using scientific reasoning, you're using other people's use of scientific reasoning and treating it as truth. someone who was using scientific reasoning would look at evidence presented in this thread and perform additional research.[/QUOTE] I've looked into the pseudoscience of chiropractic long before this thread was made. The science isn't there. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism[/url]

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561800]Which isn't chiropractic, it's physical therapy. Have you clicked and read this [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism"]link[/URL]?[/QUOTE] I am not reading through all of it. I understand what you are saying. You do not understand what I am saying. That's all this discussion is. You believing we're all to stupid to read a wikipedia link, and us believing you're too obtuse to look at anything OTHER than a wikipedia link written by a writer with a bias and a goal.

[url]http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chiropractic/Pages/Introduction.aspx[/url] i mean, i trust the NHS so i trust their position on it ("it's offered as a complementary treatment for some lower back pain because NICE says its effective")

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561805]I am not reading through all of it. I understand what you are saying. You do not understand what I am saying. That's all this discussion is. You believing we're all to stupid to read a wikipedia link, and us believing you're too obtuse to look at anything OTHER than a wikipedia link written by a writer with a bias and a goal.[/QUOTE] What 'bias'? Are you saying the information, with citations and external links to other sources including scientific studies that show chiropractic to be the pseudoscience that it is, is just made up? And I know what you are referring to when you say "anything OTHER than a wikipedia link". It means anecdotal experiences. I hope I won't have to tell you how anecdotes are not valid evidence? Also, if you are implying that wikipedia is the only source which points out the pseudoscience of chiropractic then that is laughable.