How to fix your posture by doing a 2 minute exercise twice a day. - General

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50561775]it's not even a case of placebo, because it has applications in treating back-pain through manual therapy anything more than that is unsupported, but the evidence suggests it is effective in treating some back pain[/QUOTE] Oh, I was completely agreeing with you/HumanAbyss. I fully believe in the efficacy of chiropractic as I've seen it work on friends and family.

Sources I trust more than Crimson Chin 1) the Canadian Government 2) the NHS 3) Insurance companies who would be sued into oblivion should they endorse the wrong care [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561824]What 'bias'? Are you saying the information, with citations and external links to other sources including scientific studies that show chiropractic to be the pseudoscience that it is, is just made up?[/QUOTE] You conflate your mental image of "Chiropractic therapy" with that link. Everything I've experienced differs from what you say I have to have experienced. So you say "They're not chiropractors they're physical therapists". No, they aren't. They're different things. I've done both, I know a lot better, and a lot more personally, than you know.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561830]Sources I trust more than Crimson Chin 1) the Canadian Government 2) the NHS 3) Insurance companies who would be sued into oblivion should they endorse the wrong care[/QUOTE] I just checked both health care providers my parents have, and both cover Chiropractic care in the US.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561800]Which isn't chiropractic, it's physical therapy. Have you clicked and read this [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism"]link[/URL]? [/QUOTE] Modern chiropratic isn't chiropractic? That has much meaning as saying that medicinal practices from 500 years ago still has no validity today because it didn't 500 years ago.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50561813][url]http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chiropractic/Pages/Introduction.aspx[/url] i mean, i trust the NHS so i trust their position on it ("it's offered as a complementary treatment for some lower back pain because NICE says its effective")[/QUOTE] here's a couple of abstracts of actual research papers as well. surely a scientific mind would check these out and consider their implications. [url]http://www.thespinejournalonline.com/article/S1529-9430(03)00177-3/abstract[/url] [url]http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/72/12/853.short[/url]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50561830]Sources I trust more than Crimson Chin 1) the Canadian Government 2) the NHS 3) Insurance companies who would be sued into oblivion should they endorse the wrong care[/QUOTE] Source you don't trust: anything that contradicts you. [QUOTE]You conflate your mental image of "Chiropractic therapy" with that link. Everything I've experienced differs from what you say I have to have experienced. So you say "They're not chiropractors they're physical therapists". No, they aren't. They're different things. I've done both, I know a lot better, and a lot more personally, than you know.[/QUOTE] "It's true because I know it is true". That's exactly what advocates of other pseudoscientific treatments such as herbalism, ayeurveda, and faith healing say and believe. Screaming that it's true because you know it's true or it's true because X insurance agency offers it is not proof of anything.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561868]Source you don't trust: anything that contradicts you. "It's true because I know it is true". That's exactly what advocates of other pseudoscientific treatments such as herbalism, ayeurveda, and faith healing say and believe. Screaming that it's true because you know it's true or it's true because X insurance agency offers it is not proof of anything.[/QUOTE] So governments and insureres would make that decision to be liable should someone be hurt based on no information because... Becausee.... Wait you don't have a reason just an insult They did research that's apparently, contradicting your point of view and causing you to throw a hissy fit.

crimsonchin desperately avoids posts with evidence that contradicts what he is saying: the thread

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50561855]here's a couple of abstracts of actual research papers as well. surely a scientific mind would check these out and consider their implications. [url]http://www.thespinejournalonline.com/article/S1529-9430(03)00177-3/abstract[/url] [url]http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/72/12/853.short[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50561880]crimsonchin desperately avoids posts with evidence that contradicts what he is saying: the thread[/QUOTE] i think it is hilarious he is claiming the scientific high ground when all he has posted is the same link to a wikipedia page

Prof. Crimson Chin MD (Hons.) OBE MBE

[QUOTE=Kinky Frog;50561845]Modern chiropratic isn't chiropractic? That has much meaning as saying that medicinal practices from 500 years ago still has no validity today because it didn't 500 years ago.[/QUOTE] No. Chiropractors who [I]don't actually perform or believe in chiropractic[/I] isn't chiropractic. I'd say the same about a real doctor who for some reason didn't practice medicine and instead practiced actual chiropractic. Many chiropractors are pretty much physical therapists sometimes utilize the less unbelievable aspects of chiropractic alongside physical therapy.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50561888]i think it is hilarious he is claiming the scientific high ground when all he has posted is the same link to a wikipedia page[/QUOTE] The saddest thing is a person who espouses the value of science and evidence has very little to fall back on and absolutely no persuasive arguments what so ever, just little more than insults. [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561907]No. Chiropractors who [I]don't actually perform or believe in chiropractic[/I] isn't chiropractic. I'd say the same about a real doctor who for some reason didn't practice medicine and instead practiced actual chiropractic. Many chiropractors are pretty much physical therapists sometimes utilize the less unbelievable aspects of chiropractic alongside physical therapy.[/QUOTE] Well your message is sure as fuck changing as you get disproved through out the thread. And no doubt you're going to ignore the studies posted on the last page.

ok so now we hit the point where crimsonchin pretends what he was arguing is that modern chiropractors aren't actually practicing chiropractic because if he did, he'd have to accept that there are some parts that are actually effective. aka something literally no one else in the thread was arguing

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50561888]i think it is hilarious he is claiming the scientific high ground when all he has posted is the same link to a wikipedia page[/QUOTE] I'm sure that you know that a wikipedia page functions as an information hub, not with the purpose of reading the page itself as gospel but finding summarized information on the page and then going to the source link to see more information and if the source is reliable (ie not "greenliving.com" or "momsagainstmedicine.com") So you can just link to a wikipedia page which contains dozens of links to information, rather than clutter a post by linking directly to 20 different websites.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561319]I do, since I am very strongly opposed to any pseudoscience and alternative medcine, as they do a lot of harm in many ways while doing nothing good for anybody, except the [I]charlatans[/I] lining their coffers with the profits of people's ignorance and/or fears.[/QUOTE] If you can't see the difference between what's in this video and chiropracty then you're hating on chiropracty for all the wrong reasons. What's shown in the video is more of a physiotherapy exercise.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50561927]ok so now we hit the point where crimsonchin pretends what he was arguing is that modern chiropractors aren't actually practicing chiropractic because if he did, he'd have to accept that there are some parts that are actually effective. aka something literally no one else in the thread was arguing[/QUOTE] No, I am arguing that chiropractic beliefs and treatments are pseudoscience, which is of course, a proven fact. Actually, my first post in this thread was just me being skeptical of the effectiveness of something created by a chiropractor, not even an argument.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50561969]No, I am arguing that chiropractic beliefs and treatments are pseudoscience, which is of course, a proven fact.[/QUOTE] Well your argument is pretty irrelevant to the video so let's move on.

Still ignoring the studies. What a scientific mind we have here

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50562003]Still ignoring the studies. What a scientific mind we have here[/QUOTE] You shouldn't refer to yourself as "we", and nobody's stopping you from clicking the links in the citations on that wikipedia page.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50562010]You shouldn't refer to yourself as "we", and nobody's stopping you from clicking the links in the citations on that wikipedia page.[/QUOTE] I don't think you seem to understand my problem with your link. I don't believe those things and neither does any chiropractor I've ever met so they're empty and baseless claims meant, much like vaccine quip, to demean me or those in this thread that don't bow down to your Wikipedia mastery. Personally, I trust my government to research this better than I trust you or Wikipedia [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] I still don't understand how a scientific mind just ignores studies like that. I haven't claimed to be a bastion of truth, you have. And you can't even read some studies?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50562026]I don't think you seem to understand my problem with your link. I don't believe those things and neither does any chiropractor I've ever met so they're empty and baseless claims meant, much like vaccine quip, to demean me or those in this thread that don't bow down to your Wikipedia mastery. Personally, I trust my government to research this better than I trust you or Wikipedia[/QUOTE] as much as it pains me to say it: I also trust my insurance companies, both of which cover it, over wikipedia.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50562003]Still ignoring the studies. What a scientific mind we have here[/QUOTE] i'm not even going to debate that there's a lot of bullshit surrounding chiropractic, at least in its formation, but i find it disagreeable to say that any and all methodology first used in chiropractic is bullshit. you don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50562026]I don't think you seem to understand my problem with your link. I don't believe those things and neither does any chiropractor I've ever met so they're empty and baseless claims meant, much like vaccine quip, to demean me or those in this thread that don't bow down to your Wikipedia mastery. Personally, I trust my government to research this better than I trust you or Wikipedia [editline]21st June 2016[/editline] I still don't understand how a scientific mind just ignores studies like that. I haven't claimed to be a bastion of truth, you have. And you can't even read some studies?[/QUOTE] If you think wikipedia is the only place pointing this out, or that it's some fringe idea that chiropratic is pseudoscience and only creepy little blogs called "peopleagainstchiropractic.com" are saying it's pseudoscience, much like how anti-vaccine, pro-homeopathy and general pro-alt-med sentiments are almost universal restricted to creepy blogs and websites made specifically in support of that sentiment, then that is simply hilarious. There are plenty of reliable sources that show how chiropractic is pseudoscience. As for 'ignoring studies', that's amusing coming from you, who immediately discounts anything that is contrary to your belief is 'just wikipedia shit'. [QUOTE=bdd458;50562053]as much as it pains me to say it: I also trust my insurance companies, both of which cover it, over wikipedia.[/QUOTE] See above.

Then why if it's so proven, do insurers and governments cover it? If it's obviously bunk bullshit, why do people who get paid to discover, and discount bunk bullshit not do so? Did BIG CHIRO buy them out? Is it all a conspiracy?

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50558902]Yeah, I was interested until I heard the word chiropractor. Very skeptical of anything created by a chiropractor (aka charlatan). (Chiropractic is pseudoscience quackery rubbish, like acupuncture and homeopathy. It's not real medicine. It does nothing, or when it does it's because it just took shit from actual physical therapy.)[/QUOTE] Okay I've led you to the water, but I guess we need to shove your head under just so you can drink from the life giving water. Do the exercise in the OP and in 3 minutes you'll understand how chiropractic treatment is real healthcare. you will notice an improvement INSTANTLY after finishing the brief exercise...

Again, Crimson Chin, insurance companies and governments have a lot more at stake than wikipedia or medical journals railing against it. I get that it's origins are fucky. I'm not debating that. I'm debating that modern chiropractic therapy, as covered by insurance companies, the NHS, and the canadian government has been vetted by those groups more than you've been able to disprove it. You have matter of factly less authority and knowledge on the subject than the experts who make the decision for millions of people.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50562084]If you think wikipedia is the only place pointing this out, or that it's some fringe idea that chiropratic is pseudoscience and only creepy little blogs called "peopleagainstchiropractic.com" are saying it's pseudoscience, much like how anti-vaccine, pro-homeopathy and general pro-alt-med sentiments are almost universal restricted to creepy blogs and websites made specifically in support of that sentiment, then that is simply hilarious. There are plenty of reliable sources that show how chiropractic is pseudoscience. As for 'ignoring studies', that's amusing coming from you, who immediately discounts anything that is contrary to your belief is 'just wikipedia shit'. See above.[/QUOTE] nobody cares everyone here trying the video in OP is claiming to feel better afterwards, including myself stop trying to push your stupid point and go shitpost somewhere else

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;50562084] As for 'ignoring studies', that's amusing coming from you, who immediately discounts anything that is contrary to your belief is 'just wikipedia shit'. [/QUOTE] The only person here who's once claimed to be an authority is you. I've couched all my statements and defense in my anecdotes, experience, and personal views. You couch yours in the realm of "truth" and "fact" based on your own personal views but you don't see the hypocrisy of your own personal opinions being held above those of medical experts who vet this stuff. You put yourself in that spot, and you still won't read conflicting studies because "you're right anyways". what's there to even debate or discuss with you? You honestly think you're the smartest man in the room, so how can anyone even talk to you when you start off acting like no one has anything to tell you?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50562090]Then why if it's so proven, do insurers and governments cover it? If it's obviously bunk bullshit, why do people who get paid to discover, and discount bunk bullshit not do so? Did BIG CHIRO buy them out? Is it all a conspiracy?[/QUOTE] No it's just like every other common misconception. Lots of people think it's real including 'people in charge'. It's not different from the belief that being in cold weather makes you get a cold or shaving hair makes it grow back thicker. Tons of people believe it, tons of people believe 100% that it is true and tons of people would swear that it works/has happened to them. As for the implication that I am a conspiracy theorist? Well, personally I would prefer if conspiracy theorists would just drink the koolaid so I don't have to see their stupid shit all the time or have their stupid shit affecting the real world (see: people not vaccinating kids)