[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492013]Gender was already brought up from the very beginning, it's too late now to say it shouldn't be brought up.[/QUOTE]
This isn't about gender. This is about someone abusing the system and causing others harm because they are not well in the head.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492013]Gender was already brought up from the very beginning, it's too late now to say it shouldn't be brought up.[/QUOTE]
[B]No it wasn't.[/B] The initial disagreement was over payment owed to Alex for her work and her false strikes. Her gender was absolutely NOT brought up from the beginning, it's something people latched onto in order to abuse her (which they were doing [I]because of her false DMCA strikes[/I]) and which she became fixated on when lawyers became involved. It was NOT part of the initial story - that was solely about her false strikes on YouTube Videos and her payment from Imagos.
Please don't pretend this came about because of gender issues, it didn't - those things are simply being used now as ways to abuse someone who is actively hurting other peoples' livelihoods. Of course it's wrong, but it wasn't what caused the initial hubbub.
[QUOTE=redback3;52492099]This isn't about gender. This is about someone abusing the system and causing others harm because they are not well in the head.[/QUOTE]
Please read the context of the argument before making an assumption and entering it, really.
The DMCA strikes aren't related to gender, but the general controversy around Alex sorta turned into that.
[QUOTE=D'Yasper;52492150][B]No it wasn't.[/B] The initial disagreement was over payment owed to Alex for her work and her false strikes. Her gender was absolutely NOT brought up from the beginning, it's something people latched onto in order to abuse her (which they were doing [I]because of her false DMCA strikes[/I]) and which she became fixated on when lawyers became involved. It was NOT part of the initial story - that was solely about her false strikes on YouTube Videos and her payment from Imagos.
[B]Please don't pretend this came about because of gender issues[/B], it didn't - those things are simply being used now as ways to abuse someone who is actively hurting other peoples' livelihoods. Of course it's wrong, but it wasn't what caused the initial hubbub.[/QUOTE]
Again, not what I meant. I'll have to be increasingly concise, apparently I'm pretty bad at getting my ideas through. Words are difficult.
Ok, let's reword it - not "Very beginning", but rather "pretty early on", because this was already a topic when I saw the threads on FP about it.
It became apparent pretty early that The internet, Alex herself, and various news websites were latching onto the idea that she was transgender.
The fact that she was transgender ended up being a factor in the whole story, because we saw people take sides both for Alex (some news websites) and against Alex (the everyday trolls) for the wrong reasons. And Alex would herself use it as an argument that she was in the right.
All of these things have been talked about throughout the numerous FP threads on the issue.
This is why I believe that gender became part of this story pretty early on, because people are unable to ignore it, Alex herself included.
The way I see it, this case is sort of "the internet and transgenderism" in a nutshell, as it brought out so many different views, arguments & issues - And this very "Was gender a real factor in this issue, or was it not?" argument we're having right now is part of it.
I get that gender shouldn't have been something that anyone should've used as an argument, an insult, a justification, or anything else - but I believe we've seen throughout the process of this evolving story that it has been used for all of these things, and again it's obviously a bad thing in current society.
Wasn't even certain that Alex was trans until that got cleared up later as to explain why her gender would often interchange between sources.
The fact that she is trans has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the case and shouldn't be used as ammo for either side and their beliefs: end of story.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492416]Please read the context of the argument before making an assumption and entering it, really.
The DMCA strikes aren't related to gender, but the general controversy around Alex sorta turned into that.
Again, not what I meant. I'll have to be increasingly concise, apparently I'm pretty bad at getting my ideas through. Words are difficult.
Ok, let's reword it - not "Very beginning", but rather "pretty early on", because this was already a topic when I saw the threads on FP about it.
It became apparent pretty early that The internet, Alex herself, and various news websites were latching onto the idea that she was transgender.
The fact that she was transgender ended up being a factor in the whole story, because we saw people take sides both for Alex (some news websites) and against Alex (the everyday trolls) for the wrong reasons. And Alex would herself use it as an argument that she was in the right.
All of these things have been talked about throughout the numerous FP threads on the issue.
This is why I believe that gender became part of this story pretty early on, because people are unable to ignore it, Alex herself included.
The way I see it, this case is sort of "the internet and transgenderism" in a nutshell, as it brought out so many different views, arguments & issues - And this very "Was gender a real factor in this issue, or was it not?" argument we're having right now is part of it.
I get that gender shouldn't have been something that anyone should've used as an argument, an insult, a justification, or anything else - but I believe we've seen throughout the process of this evolving story that it has been used for all of these things, and again it's obviously a bad thing in current society.[/QUOTE]
Her being transgender only became a highlight months after this kicked off. It didn't happen "pretty early on" only when she pointed out that Leonard French got her legal name wrong. Which again was months after this whole thing kicked off, which then got picked up by the media.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492013]Gender was already brought up from the very beginning, it's too late now to say it shouldn't be brought up.[/QUOTE]
The topic of gender in this context only serves to distract from what the subject of said topic is doing to actively harm the careers of others while simultaneously tanking their own. It's irrelevant to the copyright claim abuse.
I had no idea she was trans until Mauer brought it up herself. It was never part of the issue for me, at least.
[QUOTE=Flicky;52492516]The topic of gender in this context only serves to distract from what the subject of said topic is doing to actively harm the careers of others while simultaneously tanking their own. It's irrelevant to the copyright claim abuse.[/QUOTE]
Well I guess you can call it a separate case if you want, but really I just don't agree that it's irrelevant.
I don't get how it's a distraction to you, i'd call it a nuance.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492541]Well I guess you can call it a separate case if you want, but really I just don't agree that it's irrelevant.
I don't get how it's a distraction to you, i'd call it a nuance.[/QUOTE]
It would be a nuance if she were issuing DMCA strikes because the videos in question had made remarks about Mauer or her gender in any way at all.
That's not the case. The videos just happen to feature her work which she was paid for (before the takedowns began, I'd reckon most of the videos didn't even mention Mauer aside from saying something like "music by Alex Mauer"), and she's taking out her issue with the developers on the content creators instead.
The gender discussion has nothing to do with issuing false copyright takedowns.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492013]Gender was already brought up from the very beginning, it's too late now to say it shouldn't be brought up.[/QUOTE]
missed the point completely, did you even read?
Are you even paying attention from this? All of us here have been collectively following it from the very start
I'm sorry but I don't know what you're trying to prove here. This just seems like thread shitting at this point.
[editline]21st July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492541]Well I guess you can call it a separate case if you want, but really I just don't agree that it's irrelevant.
I don't get how it's a distraction to you, i'd call it a nuance.[/QUOTE]
Imagine if someone robbed a bank, or stole software, or filed fraudulent tax claims and out of the blue the legal matter of it became a trans topic simple because of they're trans. All of a sudden them being trans was the important thing
That'd be exactly the same as this. How incredibly stupid would that be.
Alex's agenda is to make it about this because he wants to make the legal debate irrelevant.
Because there's not really a way to identify people's online personas, online abuse happens over whatever the target has identified themselves with.
If you identified yourself as a gamer, abusers will say you're bad at games. If you identified yourself as a woman, abusers will make misogynist jokes. If you enjoy something nerdy, abusers will call you an autistic beta.
Some people just enjoy at pissing other people off.
She's not being attacked because she's trans, she's being attacked because of her behavior with her being trans used as a catalyst for insults.
Those two are [i]not[/i] the same thing, and trying to think it is is exactly why gamergate turned into a monumental fucking shit show.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;52492960]She's not being attacked because she's trans, she's being attacked because of her behavior with her being trans used as a catalyst for insults.
Those two are [i]not[/i] the same thing, and trying to think it is is exactly why gamergate turned into a monumental fucking shit show.[/QUOTE]
Careful, Paul might say "No, you're actually just agreeing with me secretly!"
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52492541]Well I guess you can call it a separate case if you want, but really I just don't agree that it's irrelevant.
I don't get how it's a distraction to you, i'd call it a nuance.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious arguing she is being harassed because of her gender, rather than the month long campaign to abuse to DMCA system to hurt career youtube channels and violate contracts for video games?
I don't get how you could be so disillusioned that you ignore the scummy legal actions of this person and pay attention to literal nobodies on twitter. Find me a tweet from somebody who has actual influence on politics or youtube in general who insults her for being trans, rather than her DMCA campaign.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52493416]why are people getting behind this just to project their own personal beliefs
this is about fuckin abusal of the DMCA system ho lee shit[/QUOTE]
um no sweetie it's obviously a targeted harassment campaign against a trans creator who did literally nothing wrong, she is being pushed around unfairly and now is getting harassed just for trying to get paid for the work she totally finished! this is an injustice!!!
This is literally exactly the sequence of events that led to GG even becoming a thing, because enough loud voices were able to latch onto the "these gamers just hate women in gaming" narrative and crush the other voice, to the point where now even the barest mention of being associated with GG has a negative connotation.
I'm gonna say this: she is purposely using her transgender identity to incite voices in her favor, while simultaneously hoping nobody will care enough to dive deep into it and just take what's been happening at face value. she is counting on the people who will not care about the specifics of the situation and just say people are attacking her "because she's trans", and that her being trans has something to do with her receiving so much negativity. YES, people are making transphobic attacks against her, but she is purposely acting like she has done nothing wrong and as if people are attacking her for no reason.
Obviously it's wrong to attack her based on nothing other than her gender but what Paul seems to fail to realize is that she EARNED this. Hell, she probably WANTED this to happen so that more people would make a louder voice for her, and she's banking on people losing the cause of WHY she's getting harrassed in the first place.
Transgender or not, what she did was a call for trouble, plain and simple. She maliciously attacked hundreds of twitch and youtube users with false DMCAs, then threatened death upon not only Imagos, but also upon Leonard, SidAlpha, and likely countless others. She caused a textbook shitstorm, and meanwhile you sit here trying to claim that her gender is being attacked when she knew full well that she would likely face adversity going public with it. I would normally be against this as it scrapes on the edge of "victim blaming", but Alex Mauer is not a victim.
Alex Mauer is a malicious bully who doesn't understand the concept of contracts and written and verbal agreements, and she has affected hundreds of people for something that should have been handled behind closed doors. She is unhinged and she has no remorse, and she is clearly cherry picking any comment that mentions her gender to use it to justify why she is "right", rather than trying to legally prove why she is in the right. She has thoroughly proven she has no interest in actually being right, so excuse me if I don't feel sorry about her getting attacked for her gender.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52492962]Careful, Paul might say "No, you're actually just agreeing with me secretly!"[/QUOTE]
I never said that, the sentence was different and had a different meaning.
Apparently I'm some advanced level dumbass when it comes to broadcasting my ideas. What I meant was that our opinion might not be as different as you think, but you're apparently massively misunderstanding my point and motive.
Here's my agenda, my point, my motive - and what i believe to be the issue in general ASIDE from the actual DMCA case which obviously is the [I]actual[/I] main issue. To be crystal clear, I never meant to even imply that gender was the primary issue in the Alex Mauer case or to distract from it (we have so many threads discussing the DMCA part already that i didn't think adding this discussion could hurt)
I believe the fact that gender:
1 - Is something people use as insults, instead of focusing on the actual issue
2 - Is something people use to pick sides, instead of focusing on the actual issue
3 - Is something Alex uses as defense or distraction
4 - Is so difficult to discuss because honestly this topic is kind of a minefield sometimes (i think i stepped on a few)
Is a problem, and that the entire ordeal of it is worth discussing to some extent even though it's not what caused the DMCAs, but rather is a part of the backlash and so on.
I get that you might think I should just leave it alone (as does most people in this thread, presumably), and that we should be discussing the DMCA strikes and the victims of it, and ok sure - that's a fair opinion, and I get that - but personally I find the gender politics aspect of the case interesting and worthy of discussion, not to 'distract from the main issue', but as an extension of it.
Does this seem reasonable?
[editline]22nd July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;52493276]Are you serious arguing she is being harassed because of her gender, rather than the month long campaign to abuse to DMCA system to hurt career youtube channels and violate contracts for video games?
[B]I don't get how you could be so disillusioned that you ignore the scummy legal actions of this person[/B] and pay attention to literal nobodies on twitter. Find me a tweet from somebody who has actual influence on politics or youtube in general who insults her for being trans, rather than her DMCA campaign.[/QUOTE]
You've arrived at the wrong conclusion, and this response makes no sense to me.
What makes you think I've ignored the legal issues? Of course I haven't - I've been trying to discuss another side of the situation. That doesn't mean I'm pretending it doesn't exist.
The idea that I'm considering the gender politics side of it more important is something you've just assumed.
I've not mentioned twitter or influential twitter users, I don't need to prove something that I never claimed or even brought up.
I just think the gender politics part of this is a distraction, both one by Mauer, and from the shmucks who use anything they can find as a weapon against their targets.
Mauer's using it so she can get a defense force, the smucks use it as a weapon, which further makes the DMCA issue, the real issue, a sidecar to the car "Transphobia" the main issue. Just a very powerful narrative distraction in our climate.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52494145] words [/QUOTE]
its funny how you say the trans hate is distracting from the actual issue, while trying to bring up the trans hate in a discussion about the actual issue
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52493739]I'm gonna say this: she is purposely using her transgender identity to incite voices in her favor, while simultaneously hoping nobody will care enough to dive deep into it and just take what's been happening at face value. she is counting on the people who will not care about the specifics of the situation and just say people are attacking her "because she's trans", and that her being trans has something to do with her receiving so much negativity. YES, people are making transphobic attacks against her, but she is purposely acting like she has done nothing wrong and as if people are attacking her for no reason.[/quote]
Glad we agree..?
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52493739]Obviously it's wrong to attack her based on nothing other than her gender but what [B]Paul seems to fail to realize is that she EARNED this.[/B] Hell, she probably WANTED this to happen so that more people would make a louder voice for her, and she's banking on people losing the cause of WHY she's getting harrassed in the first place.[/QUOTE]
I've not failed to realize that, your assumption is off.
Are you under the impression that I'm defending her actions or something?
[editline]22nd July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52494178]I just think the gender politics part of this is a distraction, both one by Mauer, and from the shmucks who use anything they can find as a weapon against their targets.
Mauer's using it so she can get a defense force, the smucks use it as a weapon, which further makes the DMCA issue, the real issue, a sidecar to the car "Transphobia" the main issue. Just a very powerful narrative distraction in our climate.[/QUOTE]
Yes, correct. I thought the meta of that was worth discussing - I'm sorry.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52494195]Glad we agree..?
I've not failed to realize that, your assumption is off.
Are you under the impression that I'm defending her actions or something?
[/QUOTE]
Ok fine you're not defending her, then why do you keep insisting that her gender has anything to do with this? Are you actually interested in anything other than spurious debate because you can't resist an argument about identity politics?
Interesting how the goes from " imagine if news companies neglected to mention that the people killed by the Ku Klux Klan were black, with the explanation that "a persons skin color is irrelevant."
to cursory facts that are generic and obvious, and have no relevance at all to news organizations covering the trans side of this and not the actual story. People using it as a counter point still has no relevance to the actual issue, no matter how much you pretend it is.
If a gay dude robs a bank, and kills a bunch of people, steals like a bajillion dollars... should news organizations bring up that he's gay even though it had 0 relevance at all to the crime? After all, people are using it as insults! Why not sour the waters of the topic with facts that are irrelevant.
[editline]21st July 2017[/editline]
This ginger dude stole a dead body from the morge and ate it
lets bring up the fact that he's ginger because ummm reasons lol
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52494195]
Yes, correct. I thought the meta of that was worth discussing - I'm sorry.[/QUOTE]
The whole trans thing is nothing to discuss about, she brought it up and everyone should ignore it because that has nothing to do with this DMCA-situation.
She only brought up that pathetic excuse to hide behind it.
Imagos v. Alex Mauer - Live update
[video=youtube;P6DFhcaNQpY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6DFhcaNQpY[/video]
Why are we arguing about Mauer's gender in the first place, stop falling into her trap. She's using it as a tool for purposefully driving away her crime which is abusing the DMCA system.
because someone fell into the trap
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52494762]because someone fell into the trap[/QUOTE]
And thus became what's known as a [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot"]"useful idiot"[/URL]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcyVdDyOUX8[/media]
And here come the vultures.
Imagine trying to sound threatening while naming yourself after these two.
[IMG]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/makingthecrossover/images/7/77/Yuka.png/revision/latest?cb=20140914043557[/IMG]
[img]https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/infinite-loops/images/f/fe/Reimu_Hakurei.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140623140230[/img]
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52496141]Who woulda guessed that some random edgy kids are 2hu weebs[/QUOTE]
Some things never change.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52495639]Imagine trying to sound threatening while naming yourself after these two.[/QUOTE]
[t]http://www.tiggyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/guns-girl-arthurshalldc.jpg[/t]
Delete this post or I'm taking your channel down
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