[QUOTE=Zeke129;50050022]I hate the idea that every single opinion is sacred and worth equal consideration. This is why people think science class needs to "teach the controversy" over Earth maybe being created 6000 years ago by God. It makes us dumber.[/QUOTE]
Basically what I was about to say, we don't give people talking about how evolution is false, that the earth is actually flat, that the sun is revolving the earth, that climate change is false, that "spirit science" is real etc. any second thoughts. Why not? Because the people who say such things are all uneducated idiots
Like "Facts not Ideology", lol ok, because this guy comes off bitter as fuck over the fact that the world doesn't work according to his views
What piss
Whether or not indulging gender dysphorics is enabling mental illness, think it's worth making sure other mental disorders are well taken care of before entertaining someone's notion of wanting to transition, because it could very well be something like schizophrenia or some other psychoses causing the urge to want to be a woman. If you treat the symptom but don't treat the cause then you're doing it wrong.
Also, I also think it's worth noting that as some people have adequately proven over the course of this whole SJW war against gaming/culture that if a shitty person transitions they won't magically become a not shitty person.
[QUOTE=Rufia;50047235]I mean this video was off to a dubious start just in the title.
"The Transgender:", as if this is some kind of nature documentary on some strange and foreign species.[/QUOTE]
and here, we see the transgender, in its natural habitat. Moms closet.
Transgederism is a mental disease and the root cause is untreatable.
as they would actually need to become the opposite gender, and that is currently not possible.
current research suggest, that up to 92% of people (Men) with gender dysphoria, accept their own birth sex in their 20s.
Instead of doing well through research on the subject, teens who are suffering from gender dysphoria, are encouraged to go trough gender reassignment surgery which has lifelong consequences which are not reversible.
Gender reassignment should only be allowed for adults, to make sure that people with gender dyspria have a chance to accept their gender.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick account." - Bradyns))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;50050022]I hate the idea that every single opinion is sacred and worth equal consideration. This is why people think science class needs to "teach the controversy" over Earth maybe being created 6000 years ago by God. It makes us dumber.[/QUOTE]
It's ok to not take opinions into consideration, but if you're going to act like you're going to refute something, it's best to at least know what you're refuting, I think.
[QUOTE=Piyavka;50051348]Transgederism is a mental disease and the root cause is untreatable.
as they would actually need to become the opposite gender, and that is currently not possible.
current research suggest, that up to 92% of people (Men) with gender dysphoria, accept their own birth sex in their 20s.
Instead of doing well through research on the subject, teens who are suffering from gender dysphoria, are encouraged to go trough gender reassignment surgery which has lifelong consequences which are not reversible.
Gender reassignment should only be allowed for adults, to make sure that people with gender dyspria have a chance to accept their gender.[/QUOTE]
I hope you get a chance to respectfully field your views as questions to actual transgender people to hear this from them, but the reality is that it isn't about accepting one's physical sex organs. People who are transgender suffer with gender dysphoria throughout their teens at increasing intensity as puberty draws them further away from where they feel they should be. To them, treatment before puberty would be nothing but a plus, because it is far easier to have a "successful" transition that way. Accepting it later is more like resigning to unhappiness, and is a huge part of why transgender people have such a high suicide rate.
[QUOTE=bitches;50051422]I hope you get a chance to respectfully field your views as questions to actual transgender people to hear this from them, but the reality is that it isn't about accepting one's physical sex organs. People who are transgender suffer with gender dysphoria throughout their teens at increasing intensity as puberty draws them further away from where they feel they should be. To them, treatment before puberty would be nothing but a plus, because it is far easier to have a "successful" transition that way. Accepting it later is more like resigning to unhappiness, and is a huge part of why transgender people have such a high suicide rate.[/QUOTE]
I had a childhood friend which was suffering from gender dysphoria, she later decided to cut her tits off and "become" a man, she regretted this later and committed suicide.
The research also suggests that it's best to be safe than sorry so you must wait as long as possible before doing this, and not encouraging it.
[QUOTE=bitches;50051422]I hope you get a chance to respectfully field your views as questions to actual transgender people to hear this from them, but the reality is that it isn't about accepting one's physical sex organs. People who are transgender suffer with gender dysphoria throughout their teens at increasing intensity as puberty draws them further away from where they feel they should be. To them, treatment before puberty would be nothing but a plus, because it is far easier to have a "successful" transition that way. Accepting it later is more like resigning to unhappiness, and is a huge part of why transgender people have such a high suicide rate.[/QUOTE]
Dude couldn't be more obvious about being a troll. Ignore him.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;50051450]Dude couldn't be more obvious about being a troll. Ignore him.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, didn't notice that he joined the forum only today.
[QUOTE=Piyavka;50051445]I had a childhood friend which was suffering from gender dysphoria, she later decided to cut her tits off and "become" a man, she regretted this later and committed suicide.
The research also suggests that it's best to be safe than sorry so you must wait as long as possible before doing this, and not encouraging it.[/QUOTE]
What research?
[video=youtube;aiBzaN3uuik]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiBzaN3uuik[/video]
[editline]2nd April 2016[/editline]
how are banned users viewing this thread wtf
All this talk about children ignores one fact.
NO medical system, US, UK, or anything recommends surgery or even hormones before puberty and actively push against them.
What is instead prescribed is puberty blockers, to allow the child to mature mentally, spend more time with psycologists to figure themselves out, then either go off the blockers, or onto anti-androgens and estrogen/ or testosterone, depending on whether trans female or trans male
funny
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("No content post" - verynicelady))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Turnips5;50050073]considering the facts behind every opinion is fine, it only starts being stupid when people keep arguing for the opinion despite all evidence to the contrary (as with biblical creationism, "Transgender is a MENTAL ILLNESS REEEEEEE", etc.)[/QUOTE]
Well I mean, they're not wrong. Or rather, they are wrong about basically everything, but not that. Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness. I don't really get why so many people seem so intent on denying that, it's simple fact.
What should be denied are the asinine views on mental illnesses that a lot of people have.
Ever since I was 12 years old I have been experiencing what most people would call gender dysphoria. I remember googling "I want to be a girl" on my dad's computer, and being extra cautious to make sure that nobody caught me. It was crazy how much shit was available to a 12 year old kid. You could literally order hormones off inhousepharmacy.biz (now [url]https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/[/url]) with a credit card, no doctor's appointment, no age verification, nothing.
I spent a lot of time contemplating how I'd order these hormones. I didn't have access to a debit/credit card because I was under 18. Those visa giftcards didn't exist back in 2006 either. So I considered stealing my dad's credit card and ordering it using his.
But I never pulled the trigger on it. And honestly, I'm glad I didn't.
I basically spent my teenage years sulking about, being depressed, thinking about suicide, over the fact that I wasn't a girl. Every time I watched porn it always looked like the girl was having a much more enjoyable time. I felt envious about that. Why can't I be sexy? Why couldn't I have that plumbing so I could feel that intense pleasure of a g-spot orgasm? Why do I have to do all of the work to attract a mate, when my life could have had me picking from countless suitors that approached me? In high school, I regularly watched porn and imagined myself as the girl. When I finished, I suddenly became indifferent towards my maleness.
When college rolled around, I was finally able to order those hormones. I took out my debit card, paid the $80 and in the mail came thirty 2mg pills of estrofem (estrogen supplement) and about one hundred 100mg pills of spiro (testosterone blockers). I was so excited. I took one pill of estrofem and one pill of spiro every day for thirty days. I started feeling breasts budding. One time, my friend punched me in the chest and my nipple [i]hurt[/i]. One time I smoked weed and I felt like I somehow had a female orgasm.
For some reason I never bothered to order more. I was afraid my breasts would grow too big and people would suddenly realize that I'm transgender. My breasts were pretty noticeable on my skinny frame so I started going to the gym, working on my chest in order to diffuse the fat.
I never went back to transitioning. I think I have found solace in my maleness through working out. Sure, I can't be "sexy" in the sense of a girl, but if I work out enough I can be percieved sexy. I can't have as good as an orgasm as a girl, but a male orgasm is pretty good. And not wanting to be the pursuer in a relationship is just laziness.
I will say, I still think I am transgender. If I could become female, I'd do it. But I'm not going to transition. The technology just isn't there yet.
When you take those hormones and testosterone blockers, they aren't coming from your ovaries. They are coming from some mass-manufacturing pill making facility, which is [i]guaranteed[/i] to not line up with what your biology would produce. When you get sex reassignment surgery, you aren't getting female plumbing. A vagina has a clitoris, labia minora, labia majora. The only thing you're doing is rearranging the nerves of your penis and scrotum so that they resemble a clitoris and a labia. Do you know what dilation is? That's what post-op transgender women do to keep the wound in their lower abdomen from closing in on itself. If you don't dilate often enough your "vaginal canal" will literally cave in on itself like an axe wound would. And let's not forget the missing fallopian tubes, uterus, the XX chromosome absent from every cell of your body, etc. You will never get pregnant. The only way to have kids is to save some of your sperm at a bank and artificially inseminate a female.
This is just my opinion, but I think everyone is secretly transgender; hell, maybe even that cat thing the video was talking about could be a thing too. Like, I'm sure that you and your friends have talked about the hypothetical what-if scenario of turning into a female for a week or whatever to try it out. Why aren't those people transgender, then?
The main thing to take away is that [i]you cannot change your sex given current technology[/i]. Being gay is totally fine because you literally don't have to do anything. You just start fucking dudes. As far as cosmetic surgery goes; if you want to fix your bald spot, then that's fine too because you're literally transplanting your own hair follicles onto your head. But transitioning and sex reassignment surgery is at best an approximation of the secondary sex characteristics of a female. You aren't becoming female.
[QUOTE=usaokay;50051542]I'm fine with transgender rights and all that, but I do find it strange.
I am still totally fine with people wanting to change their gender, but the whole notion to me is somewhat alien in societal nature, and thus, strange.
It's probably like that for other people, but they treat "alien" things with extreme prejudice.[/QUOTE]
That's normal, actually. I think that deep down most of everyone looks at different things in a sort of weird, distorted way, because from they're perspective that's what it is, something they're not.
Of course this stops being ok once you start being an ass. about it.
[QUOTE=Blazedol;50051395]It's ok to not take opinions into consideration, but if you're going to act like you're going to refute something, it's best to at least know what you're refuting, I think.[/QUOTE]
We eventually reach a point where the same talking points have been refuted over and over so many times by so many different sources that it's acceptable to just start mocking them.
I skimmed through the video, but I watched enough.
I like how he compares being infertile to being blind or pretending to be a cat.
He mentions that bullshit "post-op trans people are 20x more likely to kill themselves than the general public, therefore trans operations are bad" argument. Every time someone makes that argument, I want to scream.
It's comparing apples to oranges. The operation doesn't turn you from cisgender to transgender, just like how coming out as gay doesn't turn you from straight to gay. To know whether the operation affects suicide rates, you need to compare [I]pre-op trans[/I] to post-op trans, not cis to post-op trans. That would be like saying "people who publicly come out as gay are 10x more likely to kill themselves than straight people, therefore we should ban coming out as gay."
The study he cites shortly after actually works against him. It says "surgery alone isn't enough, it alleviates gender dysphoria but patients still need therapy checkups". He takes that to mean "surgery is harmful and we should just tell trans people they're freaks". It may or may not be the same study, but there's a study that says "post op trans people are still likely to kill themselves. This doesn't mean trans people aren't happier afterwards, they are, it just doesn't cure [I]everything[/I] in their life".
And the reason they're still suicidal is much more likely than not that society still treats them as freaks.
As for the John Hopkins study: I may be thinking of the wrong one, but isn't that the study where it was basically like this?
"So, trans people, how do you feel now compared to before?"
"We feel better."
"No you don't. Conclusion: trans people reported not feeling better."
[QUOTE=Zeke129;50051706]We eventually reach a point where the same talking points have been refuted over and over so many times by so many different sources that it's acceptable to just start mocking them.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that's a good idea, and it's not because you'll make someone think differently from just being nice, but more because they can use that against you and get people on their side, if they get to someone before you.
It won't always work, but it's not entirely uncommon to in my experience.
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;50051992]When people start going "I'm not even going to watch the video, I know I'm right and he's a bigot" makes you no better than anyone else who uses the same excuse to ignore an argument, no matter how wrong they are.[/QUOTE]
You know you can't be better than ISIS unless you listen to their diatribe. In fact, you are even worse if you don't take time to listen to them!
[QUOTE=Last or First;50051877]I skimmed through the video, but I watched enough.
I like how he compares being infertile to being blind or pretending to be a cat.
He mentions that bullshit "post-op trans people are 20x more likely to kill themselves than the general public, therefore trans operations are bad" argument. Every time someone makes that argument, I want to scream.
It's comparing apples to oranges. The operation doesn't turn you from cisgender to transgender, just like how coming out as gay doesn't turn you from straight to gay. To know whether the operation affects suicide rates, you need to compare [I]pre-op trans[/I] to post-op trans, not cis to post-op trans. That would be like saying "people who publicly come out as gay are 10x more likely to kill themselves than straight people, therefore we should ban coming out as gay."
The study he cites shortly after actually works against him. It says "surgery alone isn't enough, it alleviates gender dysphoria but patients still need therapy checkups". He takes that to mean "surgery is harmful and we should just tell trans people they're freaks". It may or may not be the same study, but there's a study that says "post op trans people are still likely to kill themselves. This doesn't mean trans people aren't happier afterwards, they are, it just doesn't cure [I]everything[/I] in their life".
And the reason they're still suicidal is much more likely than not that society still treats them as freaks.
As for the John Hopkins study: I may be thinking of the wrong one, but isn't that the study where it was basically like this?
"So, trans people, how do you feel now compared to before?"
"We feel better."
"No you don't. Conclusion: trans people reported not feeling better."[/QUOTE]
Fucking finally,this is how you should argue your point against someone like in the video instead of covering your ears and refusing to listen to the other side. Thank you compadre
Sorry for breaking ur merge m8
I mean, yes, this is strawman as fuck, but shit opinionated videos are shit opinionated videos no matter the fact if people watched them or not. It has been confirmed that the video is in fact A SHITTY, OPINIONATED video. You don't get any more bonus points for pointing out other people's in/actions.
[editline]2nd April 2016[/editline]
My merge!
[editline]2nd April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=dds98;50051559]Why aren't those people transgender, then?
The main thing to take away is that [i]you cannot change your sex given current technology[/i]. Being gay is totally fine because you literally don't have to do anything. You just start fucking dudes. As far as cosmetic surgery goes; if you want to fix your bald spot, then that's fine too because you're literally transplanting your own hair follicles onto your head. But transitioning and sex reassignment surgery is at best an approximation of the secondary sex characteristics of a female. You aren't becoming female.[/QUOTE]
You are literally defining gender as sex, literally defining people's gender by their sexual organs. In all honesty, I'm confused as to why you have never brought this up to a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist, instead of taking up a twisted stance on something by downgrading it to a mere (by your description) sexual fetish. You don't become male or female through the transition - you already psychologically are. Transition merely assists in acclimation to your existing body and shaping it to one's existing psychological profile. It's not a "what if" situation where someone goes "I wonder if I was a boy/girl" - it is quite literally someone being of a specific psychological gender not matching the one developed during their pre-birth processes. Also, associating being gay and transgender doesn't even make sense, as one's sexuality and another is a label for an individual who has a gender dysphoria and is transitioning.
My faith in humanity has just dropped... [B]By 10 points![/B]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Useless post" - verynicelady))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;50051992]When people start going "I'm not even going to watch the video, I know I'm right and he's a bigot" makes you no better than anyone else who uses the same excuse to ignore an argument, no matter how wrong they are.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gufu;50052080]You know you can't be better than ISIS unless you listen to their diatribe. In fact, you are even worse if you don't take time to listen to them![/QUOTE]
Nice job only further proving his point, like it's just a dumb Youtube channel, stop trying to compare a terrorist group with a Youtube channel as an excuse to not watch a video and still try to argue
[QUOTE=gufu;50052080]You know you can't be better than ISIS unless you listen to their diatribe. In fact, you are even worse if you don't take time to listen to them![/QUOTE]
Is this the new Godwin's Law?
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;50052505]Nice job only further proving his point, like it's just a dumb Youtube channel, stop trying to compare a terrorist group with a Youtube channel as an excuse to not watch a video and still try to argue[/QUOTE]
Good reading of the follow-up post on your side, too. Puts you on the same boat - they don't want to watch the video, you can't be arsed to read the thread.
[QUOTE=Zyler;50052566]Is this the new Godwin's Law?[/QUOTE]
Gotta stay original and topical.
This thread is a disaster, and surprisingly this time it's the people who are correct who brought it
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This post is not about the thread topic" - verynicelady))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;50050740][I]yes[/I]
all it takes is 5 seconds to google shit like the APA and find out that yes, indeed, hormone therapy and acceptance of transgender individuals is generally psychologist and psychiatrist approved[/QUOTE]
well no shit, but unfortunately that's irrelevant to what i said since something being 'generally approved' is no indication that it's the 'cure' to a given illness, or if it's just a stop-gap that deals with the symptoms instead of the actual underlying problem; you just have to look at the dark history of mental health see that.
[QUOTE=PsiSoldier;50053408]well no shit, but unfortunately that's irrelevant to what i said since something being 'generally approved' is no indication that it's the 'cure' to a given illness, or if it's just a stop-gap that deals with the symptoms instead of the actual underlying problem; you just have to look at the dark history of mental health see that.[/QUOTE]
Its a stop gap, but its a stop gap thats been reached after decades of other methods that have gotten nowhere. Even if our current model of how GiD manifests is correct, then the model itself precludes any systematic diagnosis, let alone a proper treatment. There are several assays used to diagnose people with GID, and thdy unite the possible symptoms of a wide range of conditions simply by their relation to gender. Even for people who are the standard model can still not react well to transitioning, whether it be soon after beginning or decades down the line.
All this means that by definition, transitioning isn't the cure. As of now, its the best solution tha exists because there is currently no way to address the underlying cause [if the cause is what we currently think it is.]
I really wish doctors were alot more forceful about this when talking to the public.
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