Ms. Male Character - Tropes vs Women in Video Games - General

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42922136]after 300 years of scientific study i have pinpointed your point what does it mean though? maybe future generations with advanced technology will be able to decipher this ancient text. [editline]19th November 2013[/editline] can you please treat me like im 12 or something and spell it out in perfect english because i'm really fucking confused[/QUOTE] I will explain his point [IMG]http://puu.sh/5nMAs.png[/IMG]

I think Catastrophe may be the best ban reason I have ever seen. Holy shit I can't stop laughing BANNED WITH THE REASON "IS A WRECK"

[QUOTE=person11;42922354]I think Catastrophe may be the best ban reason I have ever seen. Holy shit I can't stop laughing BANNED WITH THE REASON "IS A WRECK"[/QUOTE] that was actually the thread closure reason. the thread was a wreck apparently. [editline]20th November 2013[/editline] which is sorta cool because this thread hasn't becoming a wreck apparently yet.

[QUOTE=person11;42911459]I feel shitty about belonging to the rich white male classes but it is ultimately better than feeling shitty about being not any of those things. Know what I mean?.[/QUOTE] The only kind of woman who'd enjoy your efforts at being horribly depressed and sad just because what you were born as and the fact you exist would be the ones who'd get off to you putting your dick into a wood chipper, just saying.

something i would actually be interested in would be anita's take on david cage's games, which have become more relevant recently and praised for being so different by a lot of different people. women are written straight up like rape fantasy trash in some of them and the most recent one has like three different shower scenes for no reason other than to see ellen page's naked back and shots of her ass in underwear/boy shorts and id only be interested because it's a bit more relevant and maybe she can be a bit more active than just spoonfeeding and pointing things out straight out of tvtropes i dunno

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42922635]The only kind of woman who'd enjoy your efforts at being horribly depressed and sad just because what you were born as and the fact you exist would be the ones who'd get off to you putting your dick into a wood chipper, just saying.[/QUOTE] thanks random facepuncher your unsolicited insight into other random facepuncher's dating lives is very interesting

Why do people think I am sad all the time You guys have no idea what the difference is between knowing about society and classes and one's position in society and self esteem

[QUOTE=person11;42920840]You are part of the problem, and will be until you wise up and decide to stand up for something good.[/QUOTE] If that means being associated with ilk like you, then it's rather be part of the [I]"problem"[/I].

[QUOTE=person11;42922679]Why do people think I am sad all the time You guys have no idea what the difference is between knowing about society and classes and one's position in society and self esteem[/QUOTE] Mostly because you keep rambling about how all white men are hitler even if they've never met a woman before and how you wish you weren't born as that. I wouldn't call that a way of thinking that say, feminism wants to put on people.

i think feeling bad for being white is silly and even i know hes never said anything like that come on now

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42922719]Mostly because you keep rambling about how all white men are hitler even if they've never met a woman before and how you wish you weren't born as that. I wouldn't call that a way of thinking that say, feminism wants to put on people.[/QUOTE] when did he even say this acknowledging privilege and shit = / = decrying white people

[QUOTE=Van-man;42922703]If that means being associated with ilk like you, then it's rather be part of the [I]"problem"[/I].[/QUOTE] k have fun.

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42922719]Mostly because you keep rambling about how all white men are hitler even if they've never met a woman before and how you wish you weren't born as that. I wouldn't call that a way of thinking that say, feminism wants to put on people.[/QUOTE] I did the research for you, and I listed all the posts where he said those things below. 1:

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;42922719]Mostly because you keep rambling about how all white men are hitler even if they've never met a woman before and how you wish you weren't born as that. I wouldn't call that a way of thinking that say, feminism wants to put on people.[/QUOTE] At least I am not assuming things about people's personal lives based on their arguments You are wrong about a thing, why don't you see a therapist clearly something must be happening to you I am so sorry

i don't really get what her goal is with this series. i guess she's doing a decent job at identifying these tropes that are present in games and reasons why they [i]might[/i] affect how people view women in society, but not providing any solutions or even explaining the extent of the problem with research or anything. does she have some kind of plan or is she just gonna keep identifying possible problems in high budget videos with nice editing and leaving it at that?

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42922749]when did he even say this acknowledging privilege and shit = / = decrying white people[/QUOTE] He said that all males are oppressors, even if you oppose sexism, even if you're a feminist. And that all males have to pay compensation for the oppression in the past done by OTHER men. He puts all men into one bag. Every man is bad and should pay for being born male. [QUOTE=person11;42829625]Are you a male? Congratulations, you are an oppressor. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=person11;42829947] Basically, even when completely ignorant of your circumstances, and even if you have dedicated your life to being as good a person as possible, if you are a white rich straight guy, you are benefiting from a society built upon oppression, and therefore you are an oppressor. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=person11;42829760]Being born a guy is as unfair as being born rich. People will have negative feelings towards someone with inborn and unfair privilege. Life is much more unfair for women than it ever will be for us.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=person11;42829760]The truth is that every man is complicit, no matter how good they seem to be. Saying that it is only some men that oppress women every day is absurd. Most do so actively, only some know they are. A minority of men think themselves feminist but continue to harm women's interests in ways they are not aware. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=person11;42832749][QUOTE=Rangergxi;42832610]So aside from being made equal you want there compensation women because they have "oppressed"? [/QUOTE] Yes, though at the same time no amount of money or apology could possibly be enough after the thousands of years of pain we have caused women. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Y'all.;42922829]i don't really get what her goal is with this series. i guess she's doing a decent job at identifying these tropes that are present in games and reasons why they [i]might[/i] affect how people view women in society, but not providing any solutions or even explaining the extent of the problem with research or anything. does she have some kind of plan or is she just gonna keep identifying possible problems in high budget videos with nice editing and leaving it at that?[/QUOTE] just keep identifying problems. because that's sorta the point. [editline]20th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;42922838]He said that all males are oppressors, even if you oppose sexism, even if you're a feminist. And that all males have to pay compensation for the oppression in the past done by OTHER men. He puts all men into one bag. Every man is bad and should pay for being born male.[/QUOTE] if you are privileged in some way(at the very least privileged by some measure other than merit) then you are an oppressor unless you go out and actively challenge those privileges.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;42922847]if you are privileged in some way(at the very least privileged by some measure other than merit) then you are an oppressor unless you go out and actively challenge those privileges.[/QUOTE] Read his posts again, he said that even then you are an oppressor. It doesn't matter what you do or who you are. Male = Oppressor according to him.

So in response to the argument she has to come up with solutions, I'll refer to the internet's favorite adage here: "you don't need to be a chef to tell the food tastes bad" So do you need to be able to tell the chef how to cook better or else keep your mouth shut?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42922861]Read his posts again, he said that even then you are an oppressor. It doesn't matter what you do or who you are. Male = Oppressor according to him.[/QUOTE] because unless you challenge all forms of privilege constantly then you inevitably say or do things that are oppressive. that's impossible. it isn't so much as "male = oppressor". it's more like "if you are a straight white man you will inevitably perpetuate oppression".

The reason these kind of arguments aren't fruitful because in the end it always comes down to sentiment versus sentiment.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;42922883]The reason these kind of arguments aren't fruitful because in the end it always comes down to sentiment versus sentiment.[/QUOTE] they're more fruitful than you might think. i was an mra until several arguments with people like zeke/thisispain/some-other-guy-i-can't-remember-his-username-anymore. so yea if someone as obstinate as me can change their mind these sorts of discussions are not fruitless.

I thought it was actually pretty interesting when she brought up the concept of "female character=male character plus defining accessory" and the concept of male being default and female being something different from default. The example with the koopa kids was actually a really good one, how all of the male ones are "the smart one" or "the crazy one" or "the little kid one" but the only female koopaling is "the girl one" whose defining characteristics are the color pink, a bow, and high heels. Like, yeah, these are super valid points shes making in this one. In her past vids its super easy to tear in to shit she got wrong but for this one its straight up actually true and kinda interesting as someone that's interested in character designs. I remember when I was talking with some indie devs about their games potential "gender swap mode," I joked about the girl version of the protagonist being the same but with a bow, and we all laughed about it. Lo and behold here we are a few months later with a video taking apart that very concept. Dunno why I even bothered typing this up though since this thread's a bit of a shitshow and you guys are talking about things she didn't even bring up in the video because I suspect none of you actually watched it.

idk why people keep saying this thread turned out horrible it actually seems pretty tame for a FF thread

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;42921460]You want a better example ? [b]The Elder Scrolls has a built-in separate race for black people.[/b] And, no, there is no such thing as a black imperial or breton or whatever. The editor won't let you (except in Oblivion but that's because the editor was utterly fucked, you could just fuck around with the settings until an imperial's skin got a blackish red tint).[/QUOTE] What? That makes total sense and isn't racist in the slightest. They're humans just like imperials, they're not like an entirely separate race. They're just from a different world region and have different skin colours for the same reason someone from europe would have different skin colours than someone from africa. The major irony here is the bretons (one of the white ones) aren't actually humans and [b]are[/b] a different race (basically half-elves). Oh and how is it discriminatory to have one race be really short, I mean why does every race have to be the exact same build with different facial features or goofy looking skin?

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42922917]idk why people keep saying this thread turned out horrible it actually seems pretty tame for a FF thread[/QUOTE] cuz not a lot of people actually seem to have watched the video and are just using it as a general shitting ground for anita like I'm not saying I care for most of her videos nor do I see where that kickstarter money actually went compared to her other videos, but this one actually was pretty interesting. at no point did I roll my eyes or outright go "THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED" like with some of her previous ones

[QUOTE=Elspin;42922926]What? That makes total sense and isn't racist in the slightest. They're humans just like imperials, they're not like an entirely separate race. They're just from a different world region and have different skin colours for the same reason someone from europe would have different skin colours than someone from africa. The major irony here is the bretons (one of the white ones) aren't actually humans and [b]are[/b] a different race (basically half-elves). Oh and how is it discriminatory to have one race be really short, I mean why does every race have to be the exact same build with different facial features or goofy looking skin?[/QUOTE] But the real issue isn't that it's that they came with specific stats that seem to support stereotypes and "scientific" racism

[QUOTE=The Calzone;42922909]I thought it was actually pretty interesting when she brought up the concept of "female character=male character plus defining accessory" and the concept of male being default and female being something different from default. The example with the koopa kids was actually a really good one, how all of the male ones are "the smart one" or "the crazy one" or "the little kid one" but the only female koopaling is "the girl one" whose defining characteristics are the color pink, a bow, and high heels. Like, yeah, these are super valid points shes making in this one. In her past vids its super easy to tear in to shit she got wrong but for this one its straight up actually true and kinda interesting as someone that's interested in character designs. I remember when I was talking with some indie devs about their games potential "gender swap mode," I joked about the girl version of the protagonist being the same but with a bow, and we all laughed about it. Lo and behold here we are a few months later with a video taking apart that very concept. Dunno why I even bothered typing this up though since this thread's a bit of a shitshow and you guys are talking about things she didn't even bring up in the video because I suspect none of you actually watched it.[/QUOTE] We moved on from the video practically at this point, but yeah the Woman as Other is the main point of this video [editline]20th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42922908]they're more fruitful than you might think. i was an mra until several arguments with people like zeke/thisispain/some-other-guy-i-can't-remember-his-username-anymore. so yea if someone as obstinate as me can change their mind these sorts of discussions are not fruitless.[/QUOTE] Same here. I keep thinking I have reached the point of being as good as possible, and I will then find another thing from which I can improve upon. I remember recently commenting how dumb pink sports cars look and then realizing how many different social factors led me to making that dumb and meaningless statement.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42922947]But the real issue isn't that it's that they came with specific stats that seem to support stereotypes and "scientific" racism[/QUOTE] Stereotypes like nords living in tundras being resistant to cold, or the dark elves living near an active volcano having resistances to heat? :v: Yeah it could be considered offensive to give certain races traits if it was relating to real life humans but this is a fantasy world. I mean, dark elves genetics let them summon their ancestors in the form of a swarming cloud of fire, it's obviously not trying to make a statement about whether racism has scientific basis

[QUOTE=Elspin;42922926]What? That makes total sense and isn't racist in the slightest. They're humans just like imperials, they're not like an entirely separate race. They're just from a different world region and have different skin colours for the same reason someone from europe would have different skin colours than someone from africa. The major irony here is the bretons (one of the white ones) aren't actually humans and [b]are[/b] a different race (basically half-elves). Oh and how is it discriminatory to have one race be really short, I mean why does every race have to be the exact same build with different facial features or goofy looking skin?[/QUOTE] well i mean sure, but the red guard also get -10 intelligence haha