Ms. Male Character - Tropes vs Women in Video Games - General

[QUOTE=thisispain;42913549]love those epic meta-jokes cant wait to see it in lmao pics[/QUOTE] awww, did I hit a nerve? [editline]19th November 2013[/editline] are you gonna slam me and epic pwn me with your sweet ass ironic shitposting now? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling and shitposting, multiple counts" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Cowabanga;42913562]awww, did I hit a nerve? [editline]19th November 2013[/editline] are you gonna slam me and epic pwn me with your sweet ass ironic shitposting now?[/QUOTE] are you seriously going to be self-satisfied about this

[QUOTE=Cowabanga;42913465][URL="http://i.imgur.com/9wJ3iqU.png"]I made this for last thread but it also applies here[/URL][/QUOTE] that's beautiful [QUOTE=thisispain;42913579]are you seriously going to be self-satisfied about this[/QUOTE] are you seriously going to be offended about this

[QUOTE=thisispain;42913579]are you seriously going to be self-satisfied about this[/QUOTE] Well it IS a piece of art reflecting somewhat* the truth (*somewhat, because last i checked craptasket's avatar didn't have a paw)

[QUOTE=thisispain;42913579]are you seriously going to be self-satisfied about this[/QUOTE] the truth hurts doesn't it

[QUOTE=Tweevle;42913471]She never said the Legend of Zelda was sexist.[/QUOTE] But she made that picture and a lot of feminists consider it so. I'm not just talking about her.

Does this video exist for any reason other than to make me really frustrated?

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;42913759]Does this video exist for any reason other than to make me really frustrated?[/QUOTE] no.

[QUOTE=Cowabanga;42913562]awww, did I hit a nerve? [editline]19th November 2013[/editline] are you gonna slam me and epic pwn me with your sweet ass ironic shitposting now?[/QUOTE] STOP

Feminists are bloody useless and complain about things that don't affect anyone EVER.

[QUOTE=SilverDragon619;42913963]Feminists are bloody useless and complain about things that don't affect anyone EVER.[/QUOTE] Feminists are actually good what are you talking about. But I don't agree with this whole tropes series or "tumblr feminism". Maybe because I'm a white male who plays games idk.

She really needs to stop spewing out problems without coming up with solutions on how to solve them. It just feels like she's complaining to complain

The solution is obvious

[QUOTE=person11;42915119]The solution is obvious[/QUOTE] If it was then these videos wouldn't be needed. Tbh it'd help people if she could bring forward suggestion as to how we can solve some of these issues.

[QUOTE=person11;42915119]The solution is obvious[/QUOTE] your avatar coupled with your post made it impossible for me not to laugh

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;42915222]If it was then these videos wouldn't be needed. Tbh it'd help people if she could bring forward suggestion as to how we can solve some of these issues.[/QUOTE] Sorry, I guess it's not obvious to everyone but it seems simple to me. The problems are a lack of diversity in both the characters of video games and the developers and writers of video games. Having well written women and non white people could be solved with more diverse developers. Of course, the lack of diversity is not always due to horrible hiring practices and misogyny in the work place, though that is common as well, it is also due to women and minorities not even trying to include themselves in the industry because they fear it would not be worth the effort because of the mistreatment. There are already plenty of programs dedicated to encouraging women to get into the industry, but the best solution to encouraging any group to get into the video gaming community would be to stop being assholes to them. Summary: well written, diverse, and non sexualities characters, more diverse developers and writers, and not being assholes to anyone who tries to point out that the solution is the first two things

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;42914761]Feminists are actually good what are you talking about. But I don't agree with this whole tropes series or "tumblr feminism". Maybe because I'm a white male who plays games idk.[/QUOTE] Feminism has become too big for its own good, I say this because people seem to make up their own small variations of feminism, that seem to clash with eachother; -Pro sex feminists because its empowering for a free woman to do what she wants/feminists who oppose sexual intercourse of women because it's degrading -Pro freedom of dressing for women even if that includes going naked because its empowering/feminists who oppose women showing too much skin because it's degrading. -Tumblr brand feminism which is just a sodding mess honestly. - the whole womyn/womin mess Basically it's just natural to be confused about feminism, not because of their core ideals, but because of the small variation in ideals that fall under the term "feminism".

[QUOTE=person11;42915295]Sorry, I guess it's not obvious to everyone but it seems simple to me. The problems are a lack of diversity in both the characters of video games and the developers and writers of video games. Having well written women and non white people could be solved with more diverse developers. Of course, the lack of diversity is not always due to horrible hiring practices and misogyny in the work place, though that is common as well, it is also due to women and minorities not even trying to include themselves in the industry because they fear it would not be worth the effort because of the mistreatment. There are already plenty of programs dedicated to encouraging women to get into the industry, but the best solution to encouraging any group to get into the video gaming community would be to stop being assholes to them. Summary: well written, diverse, and non sexualities characters, more diverse developers and writers, and not being assholes to anyone who tries to point out that the solution is the first two things[/QUOTE] YEs great now if only she could say that everything would be gravy.

[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;42915314]Feminism has become too big for its own good, I say this because people seem to make up their own small variations of feminism, that seem to clash with eachother; -Pro sex feminists because its empowering for a free woman to do what she wants/feminists who oppose sexual intercourse of women because it's degrading -Pro freedom of dressing for women even if that includes going naked because its empowering/feminists who oppose women showing too much skin because it's degrading. -Tumblr brand feminism which is just a sodding mess honestly. - the whole womyn/womin mess Basically it's just natural to be confused about feminism, not because of their core ideals, but because of the small variation in ideals that fall under the term "feminism".[/QUOTE] Feminism won't be too big or too anything until the liberation of women from men. Also that is not an entirely accurate portrayal of Feminism. The main dichotomy is between Radical and Liberal feminism. The first three you describe are all Liberal, while the ones who want to concentrate on misspelling women are usually Radicals who do not want to be associated with their oppressors through words that denote them as the other, ie wo-man instead of a separate word. Liberal Feminism cares more about individual empowerment than the liberation of social classes, which is what makes it so problematic compared to Radical Feminism. Liberal Feminists are also logically inconsistent by wanting more diversity in media and criticizing all problematic media while getting super angry if you try pointing out how fucked up or socially derivative most porn and most fetishes are. They are more willing to protect so called male feminists and kinks and sex trafficking than protect women. A part of the Radical movement are problematic because they ignore science and treat trans* issues as purely social instead of neurological and therefore consider trans* people aberrations who are either fetishizing femininity or attempting to abandon womenhood to gain privilege. Most Radicals distance themselves from transphobic ones. So both sides of the movement have deep flaws but are miles ahead of the video gaming community that still laughs at the very idea of Feminism being relevant.

I watched it, here's my take on it. At the end, she hailed a few characters. However, I can't help but mention that she's contradicting her statement. The characters that she praised were designated as a female due to the color of their outfit, hairstyle, or female name. All aspects used to designate a female in culture. One thing that she doesn't note is that gender is often pressed on non-human/abstract characters than with human-like characters. It's not done with ill-intent, it's used as a method to making them appear human to everyone else. I didn't find the video particularly helpful to expanding fiction like the DiD videos, but others might.

When it comes to which one is right about most issues I would side with the Radicals, though it is still scary to know a portion of them have not picked up on the Wikipedia articles showing trans* issues come from hormones just as much as from socially enforced gender roles. [editline]19th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;42915432]I watched it, here's my take on it. At the end, she hailed a few characters. However, I can't help but mention that she's contradicting her statement. The characters that she praised were designated as a female due to the color of their outfit, hairstyle, or female name. All aspects used to designate a female in culture. One thing that she doesn't note is that gender is often pressed on non-human/abstract characters than with human-like characters. It's not done with ill-intent, it's used as a method to making them appear human to everyone else. I didn't find the video particularly helpful to expanding fiction like the DiD videos, but others might.[/QUOTE] Yeah, she definitely analyzes from a Liberal perspective,

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;42915432]I didn't find the video particularly helpful to expanding fiction like the DiD videos, but others might.[/QUOTE] Anita Sarkeesian's videos tend to feel really boring, monotone and to drag on, her previous videos from the same series are the same. Not to mention all the times she contradicts herself or badly interpretes a character (see Jenny from the Darkness, for instance).

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XXPGvytZdU[/media]

All of her videos feel like satire at a Jim Sterling level.

I agree with most what she said about the ms male character and smurfette trope. They are both bullshit. On a side note did l4d really deserve to be on that list? I didn't think that Zoey's only trait was being a stereotypical woman. But when she started going after the male protagonist as being the default and how wrong it is... I guess she still doesn't get it that most people who play FPSes and story driven games are male and thus those games are designed for males which explains male protagonist as the default option. Also I found constantly pointing out the pink color, bow, etc pretty annoying. We get it, no reason to point it out every time.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42911219]you don't need to provide solutions for anything if you're doing an analysis lol[/QUOTE] Saying "this is a problem" is not an analysis, it's a statement.

I actually enjoyed the video and it was quite informative. Girl characters suffer from most of what she said and it would be nice to see some thing's that didn't overshadow the gender in a few areas quite so much. On the other hand, i found that a [i]blue[/i] cube named claire was quite awkward for me and a bit hard to grasp without having a (opposing) stereotypical indicator but considering the nature of the object in question, it's god damn understandable right? I don't know what to think otherwise and i feel left a bit dumbed that a subject so far out of reality is being driven with a feminist agenda.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42916399]But when she started going after the male protagonist as being the default and how wrong it is... I guess she still doesn't get it that most people who play FPSes and story driven games are male and thus those games are designed for males which explains male protagonist as the default option. [/QUOTE] Good point, but the men being the "default" occurs all over media, not just video games. And maybe if male wasn't always the default in video games then more women would play them? If someone is constantly being shoved to the peripheral in something, they probably won't find it as engaging.

[QUOTE=Tweevle;42916486]Good point, but the men being the "default" occurs all over media, not just video games. And maybe if male wasn't always the default in video games then more women would play them? If someone is constantly being shoved to the peripheral in something, they probably won't find it as engaging.[/QUOTE] I agree that it's a problem with other media that most of the time the main character is male. I'd really like to see more movies with female protagonist. Especially action ones. Stallone-Schwarzenegger era is over. But I disagree with your other point. You won't get more female characters before it's profitable enough to put them in there. You won't have supply before demand. It would be nice and it would speed up the process of video games stopping to be male-dominated media, but it's not going to happen that fast. We can only keep showing devs that we demand more female characters and female oriented stories. If they'll think it's gonna get them more profit, surely they'll make more of these.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;42916572]I agree that it's a problem with other media that most of the time the main character is male. I'd really like to see more movies with female protagonist. Especially action ones. Stallone-Schwarzenegger era is over. But I disagree with your other point. You won't get more female characters before it's profitable enough to put them in there. You won't have supply before demand. It would be nice and it would speed up the process of video games stopping to be male-dominated media, but it's not going to happen that fast. We can only keep showing devs that we demand more female characters and female oriented stories. If they'll think it's gonna get them more profit, surely they'll make more of these.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen overnight, but still, I think more could be done to improve that without making it unattractive to male gamers.